Same sex marriage officialy legal through all of Canada Today

Bells said:
A heterosexual can marry who ever they choose as long as they are above the age of consent in that particular State and of the opposite sex, correct?

No, that's NOT correct! They can't marry a person of the same sex.

Bells said:
The law discriminates because it allows only one type of marriage.

Well, that's because there IS only one type of marriage. Hell, the way ye're seeing things, a person should be allowed to become a welder even if he can't pass the tests and requirements for BEING a welder! What the fuck kind of logic is that?

Bells said:
Marriage laws discriminates because it does not allow everyone to marry who they choose. Do you understand now?

No! Marriage laws are no different to any other laws. People aren't allowed to drive cars unless they pass tests and requirements. People aren't allowed to marry their own siblings or offspring. People with syphillis (and other stuff?) aren't allowed to marry anyone.

There are tests/requirements for marriage just like there are tests and requirements for many, many things in life. Yet, gays think that some laws should be changed just because of how and who they like to fuck. That just ain't right .....it's also NOT a case of discrimination.

Bells said:
...that person has an insurance policy that states that the spouse or closest living relative....

That scenario is no different to a divorced hetero who is too stupid to change his insurance policy to cover the new situation!

Bells said:
Now not only are gay people not allowed to marry each other, but their partners are also denied the protections and benefits only allowed under marriage. Get it now?

No, I don't get it! See my notes above about passing specific requirements for lots of things in life .....like marriage partners and welders! If you can't pass the tests/requirements, you can't get the "job".

Bells said:
I'm straight and I'm allowed to marry whoever I want.

No you can't! You can't marry your sister! You can't marry your mother! You can't marry a woman who has syphillis (or some other stuff?). You can't marry a woman/girl under the "legal" age .....and that age limit is also one of the tests/requirements that one must pass in order to marry!

Bells said:
See, most people with an ounce of sense see that as discrimination.

Well, perhaps I don't have an ounce of sense. Is there a way I can measure "sense"?

STRAIGHT MALES CAN'T MARRY MALES, GAY MALES CAN'T MARRY MALES.

Baron Max
The only people who do any good in the world are whores and bartenders.
 
QUOTE=Bells
So you discriminate against single parent families as well? My, you're just a poster child for a pro-discrimination lobby aren't you?
For Bell since she's obviously (once again) not clear on what discrimination actually means.
The act of discriminating.
The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice


quoted by Bells
Shame not everyone in society is allowed to do as they 'damn well please'. But oh yeah, that's right, you are a selective bigot. You don't care that not every human being is allowed to do as they please.
Oh, I guess it's also a shame for murderers, rapists, child molesters and all criminals to get to do everything they damn well please too.. huh?
A BIGOT is - one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
This does not classify me as a bigot..I gon't have a group to belong too...unless you mean heterosexual human race of entire nations of people....ie...white, black, hispanic, italian, jamaican, indian, asian...etc.......... seems to me like gays/lesbians belong in that category. :bugeye:



quoted by Bells
Lady are you for real? You only see yourself as being an object designed to have sex with men and bear children? .
I'm a woman....a real woman who's not afraid to speak on what I believe just like you...having a belief doesn't make you a racist or discriminate....You would need and action to go with that. I'm only speaking my opinion...in which is something I believe in. I do see myself as being an object of design...I am an object of design...to procreate...along with many other things (but I didn't think I had to tell you that, unless you're not a woman).

quoted by Bells
Science has not yet discovered a means by which a child can be brought to term by unnatural means.
That's exactly my point! It's not natural!

quoted by Bells
Tell me, do you discriminate against women who are unable to bear children because because of some medical or genetic reason as well since their body does not fall into the mold of what you see a woman's body as being? I'm a woman and I don't see my body as an incubator. Even though I am carrying my first child as I type this, I don't see my body's sole purpose as bearing children. I see my body as being designed to sustain my own life. That is what I was created for. I'm not some kind of baby factory.
Please read what you quoted here again...let me point the way

"I am carrying my first child as I type this, I don't see my body's sole purpose as bearing children." I'm not some kind of baby factory
This is your bodies sole purpose, Yes...you are a baby factory (among other very important things like breathing)....and please understand discrimination before you plaster it everywhere again! If you learn this definition you'll see that gay/lesbians want us to do exactly that!


The act of discriminating.
The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit
.
(dictionary.com)

quote by Bells
And how is a homosexual having children forcing YOU to live with it or anything? How is it even any of your business?
Why don't you look after your own children and let homosexuals look after theres.
Are you just stupid?? Is that it??? Anything that goes on in this country is my business! And that's also just it.....It takes a nation to look after children..not just a parent...Are you kidding me?? Is this the kind of BS that you will feed to your child?



quote by Bells
What African American's went through in the past is what gays are going through today.
What a Fuc&%ing insult! :mad:

quoted by Bells
I thought you said you were an American? So you wouldn't defend the rights of all Americans?
No I wouldn't....would I defend an american rapist because he raped a foreigner?......would I defend you?.........Would I defend an american axe murderer because he thought he didn't get a fair trial when he chopped off your fathers head, even though there are witnesses...no I wouldn't? :bugeye:
 
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http://moodle.ed.uiuc.edu/wiked/index.php/GLBTC
o Lesbian and gay youth commit 30% of the completed suicides annually with suicide being the leading cause of death.
o 28% of gay/lesbians high school students in a national study were seen to have dropped out of school because of harassment resulting from their sexual orientation.
o 45% of gay and 20% of lesbian reports having experienced verbal harassment and or physical violence as a result of their sexual orientation during high school (Youth Pride Inc.1997)
Dropout 28% of gay/lesbian high school students in a national study were seen to have dropped out of school because of harassment resulting from their sexual orientation.
Suicide: 30% of the completed youth suicides are committed by lesbian and gay youth annually and suicide is their leading cause of death.
Violence: 45% of gay and 20% of lesbians report having experienced verbal harassment and/or physical violence as a result of their sexual orientation during high school
Homelessness: 26% of gay and lesbian youth are forced to leave home because of conflicts with their families over their sexual identities.
Student Attitudes: 97% of students in public high schools report regularly hearing homophobic remarks from their peers.
Isolation: 80% of lesbian, gay and bisexual youth report severe isolation problems. They experience social isolation, emotional isolation and cognitive isolation.

quote by neildo
Um, how does this help your argument?
?????????????? I didn't put it here to help. I put it here to show problems already occuring. It does not matter what side you take. It is a problem for everyone to deal with. Just imagine that this did not exist. Imagine on both sides of the argument if this did not exist at all. You mean you want to take a child (who by many reasons ended up in foster care) from there and put them here! Oh yeah, that's just great..... :(


by neildo
Someone said you're black, and if you are, I do not understand for the life of me how you could hold a prejudice against them.
Just because I'm not white, you think I'm supposed to somehow have been affected by prejudice???? How racist is that!


Do you not care about blacks either? Are you a black girl who was brainwashed to be white so you don't care about your "lesser" blacks anymore? Just WTF is wrong with you? You of all people should be more caring and understanding towards gays and lesbians than any other racial group because your people had to go through the same exact things
.
Are you Fuc&jking Kidding Me!
How in your mothers name, should I know and care about men fuc&king men and women fuc&iking women which had nothing to do with slavery!!!!!! Moronic B.as#tard!
quote by neildo
It's your right by natural design? What ever happened due to freedom? And you do realize, marriage and having children are two seperate things?
Freedom was our right by natural design and so is procreating. I know that marriage and children are two different things (jerk) and I mean one thing. That gay/lesbians should not be able to adopt or marry each other. It doesn't matter the reason. It's my personal belief and opinion only. Which I've stated from the beginning. You have every right to disagree. But the name calling (in which I too have been involved) is not necessary to make one's opinion openly discussed.

You're not discriminating against some homo's.. you're just against those wanting to adopt children? Uh, do you even realize what you just said there? Hey everyone, I'm not a racist, I just don't want niggers drinking from the same water fountain as me.
Once again! I'm not discriminating against some homo's....I'm against all homo's who want to adopt children. That's it!
And you call me Racist? (colored sentence above)

by neildoYou'd rather hide the fact and this just goes to show it due to your prejudice against gays and lesbians.
I've never stated that I wasn't prejudice! ;)
 
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ReighnStorm said:
For Bell since she's obviously (once again) not clear on what discrimination actually means.
The act of discriminating.
The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice
Oh look.. you even put it in pretty colours for me. :rolleyes:

To discriminate is "to make distinctions on the basis of class or category without regard to individual merit; show preference or prejudice"

It can also be viewed as someone treating another differently regardless of the individual's merit because of class, race, sex, age, religion, etc.

You see, no matter how you put it, it still does not put you in a better light... much as you may think it does.

Oh, I guess it's also a shame for murderers, rapists, child molesters and all criminals to get to do everything they damn well please too.. huh?
I'm sorry, you're equating homosexuals being allowed to marry as being the same as they being a murderer, rapist, child molester and criminal? To quote you... "huh"?

A BIGOT is - one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
This does not classify me as a bigot..I gon't have a group to belong too...unless you mean heterosexual human race of entire nations of people....ie...white, black, hispanic, italian, jamaican, indian, asian...etc.......... seems to me like gays/lesbians belong in that category.
Again, how does this help put you in a better light? The human race is not entirely heterosexual. The human race also consists of homosexuals. While you may belong to the human race, by viewing and treating homosexuals differently, you are in fact being a bigot.

I'm a woman....a real woman who's not afraid to speak on what I believe just like you...having a belief doesn't make you a racist or discriminate....
Depends on your belief doesn't it? Being a woman doesn't mean anything in this argument about whether the State should finally see the light and give homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals in regards to marrying.

I'm only speaking my opinion...in which is something I believe in. I do see myself as being an object of design...I am an object of design...to procreate...along with many other things (but I didn't think I had to tell you that, unless you're not a woman).
It may surprise you to hear Reighn, but just because I was born with a uterus and a couple of ovaries, does not mean that I was brought up to believe that I was made or designed to simply spread my legs and procreate or breed like some kind of breeding cow. I was not brought up and do not view that as being a woman's sole role or goal in life. Again, what does a woman's reproductive organs have to do with homosexuals marrying?

That's exactly my point! It's not natural!
What is not? A child being born from an artificial womb? Err no that's not natural and that's merely science fiction. Or is this your way of saying you don't approve of IVF either? As I'd said before, children are still coming out of women, whether they be straight or lesbian. So in that sense, it's still natural. You may not approve of a child being brought up by homosexuals or in a family that does not consist of a mother and a father, but luckily for us, humanity does not depend on your approval to carry on. Children are being brought up in homosexual and single households and there's nothing wrong or abnormal or unnatural about that or the child itself. As even you have agreed, these children were born by natural means, so what's your point? That has nothing to do with homosexuals having equal rights to marry. Especially in light of the fact that homosexuals are already bringing up their own children and have been for a long long time now. It's not a recent phenomenon. Also, I'd just like to know how your being a woman and being able to carry a child in your womb have to do with homosexuals marrying? Just trying to bring this back to topic now.

"I am carrying my first child as I type this, I don't see my body's sole purpose as bearing children." I'm not some kind of baby factory
This is your bodies sole purpose, Yes...you are a baby factory (among other very important things like breathing)....and please understand discrimination before you plaster it everywhere again! If you learn this definition you'll see that gay/lesbians want us to do exactly that!
Yes, again I shall ask. What do my uterus and ovaries have to do with anything? This may surprise you also Reighn, but not only do I not view myself as some kind of breeding cow, I don't see my body that way either.

So how you view a woman's role in life has in connection to homosexuals marrying and wanting to be discriminated against still does not make sense. Or are you somehow saying that homosexuals want women to be baby factories? Or are you saying that homosexuals want us to discriminate against them?

Are you just stupid?? Is that it??? Anything that goes on in this country is my business! And that's also just it.....It takes a nation to look after children..not just a parent...Are you kidding me?? Is this the kind of BS that you will feed to your child?
And everything that goes on in your country is your business because...? Yes it takes a nation to look after children and seeing that the nation also consists of homosexuals, they are doing just that... taking part in the nation's business just like you are. So what's your point? You're the one who seems to think that a child would be better off being brought up by the State than by two parents who will love and cherish that child because of the parents sex orientation. Foster care is not all it's cracked up to be. Children are often abused, mistreated, moved around like cattle when in foster care. You may think that is a better way of bringing up a child, but luckily for humanity, not everyone thinks as you do.

What a Fuc&%ing insult!
How so? Have you actually compared the treatment? I know you just see homosexuals as "homos" and therefore beneath your contempt, but have you ever actually thought about their treatment? Children who are homosexual are denied an education in their schools because they are mistreated by not only the students but also the staff for being born the way they are. Some are even suspended from school permanently. Hmmm.. it's akin to African Americans being denied an education because of their colour doesn't it? Homosexuals are often abused, bashed and killed on just about a daily basis because they are homosexual and born that way. Again, see the similarities of Blacks being bashed and killed for being black? Homosexuals are denied employment prospects because of their homosexuality. Again, note the similarities. Homosexuals are denied the right to marry. African Americans were also at one time denied the right to marry at law... Homosexuals are often denied the right to rent or buy a house because the agent won't deal or serve them because they are homosexual and they are often driven out of their homes because people like you abuse and mistreat them for being homosexual or "homos" as you so eloquently put it. Again stark similarities don't you think? African Americans were and are still often denied the right to live where they wish and denied the right to rent or buy because the agent refuses to deal with Blacks. There is more but I'm sure you're getting my point.

I'm not denying that African Americans aren't mistreated, discriminated against and denied their equal rights. I'm merely pointing out to you that there are others in society also denied the same rights because of their sexual orientation.

No I wouldn't....would I defend an american rapist because he raped a foreigner?......would I defend you?.........Would I defend an american axe murderer because he thought he didn't get a fair trial when he chopped off your fathers head, even though there are witnesses...no I wouldn't?
So because I'd fight for equal rights for everyone, you'd put me in the same class as a rapist or murderer? LOL! Err ok. I'm sorry but that's hilarious... :rolleyes:
 
Science has not yet discovered a means by which a child can be brought to term by unnatural means.

That's exactly my point! It's not natural!

Marriage and having children are two different subjects. You shouldn't say homosexuals shouldn't marry because they cannot have children. Well, they actually CAN have them naturally, it's called having donors or getting knocked up by another person which is perfectly legal. Many married couples "swing" and have sex with other people all the time and heck, even partake in bisexual experiences. For the gays, they do the same but just get knocked up too, which again, is perfectly legal.

Since homosexuals shouldn't marry since they cannot have children, what are your feelings about married couples that choose not to have children or those that wish they could have children but cannot NATURALLY have children due to having reproductive problems?

What African American's went through in the past is what gays are going through today.

What a Fuc&%ing insult!

Seriously, STFU. Your whiney ass is insulting all of your people that actually did have to go through all the hardships. All because one minority group didn't have it as hard as the next doesn't mean you should just ignore them. Hell, we should ignore all blacks today since they didn't have it as bad as the blacks of the past. The blacks that complain today are insulting those of the past. And if you REALLY wanna talk about insults in how one minority group don't have it as hard as other minorities, I don't hear the friggin American Indians talkin shit about whiney ass blacks how EASY those blacks had it with their discrimination, but that's maybe because not many American Indians exist anymore! You're such an uncaring bi***, seriously.

I thought you said you were an American? So you wouldn't defend the rights of all Americans?

No I wouldn't....would I defend an american rapist because he raped a foreigner?......would I defend you?.........Would I defend an american axe murderer because he thought he didn't get a fair trial when he chopped off your fathers head, even though there are witnesses...no I wouldn't?

Oh yeah, that's right, go ahead and compare homosexuals to rapists and murderers..

?????????????? I didn't put it here to help. I put it here to show problems already occuring. It does not matter what side you take. It is a problem for everyone to deal with. Just imagine that this did not exist. Imagine on both sides of the argument if this did not exist at all. You mean you want to take a child (who by many reasons ended up in foster care) from there and put them here! Oh yeah, that's just great.....

Those statistics also only talk about gays in high school. Well uh, who hasn't had it rough in high school? Let's see the dropout rates, isolation, student attitudes, and violence to gangbangers in school or all the little nerdy kids that get picked on too. Usually when someone grows up, they don't have to deal with all that petty stuff that happens in high school. So because gays had it bad in high school, it means they can't mature as time goes on? Gee, tell that to all the nerds or anyone else in high school. Because nerds had it bad, I guess we shouldn't trust them with adopted kids either. :rolleyes:

Someone said you're black, and if you are, I do not understand for the life of me how you could hold a prejudice against them.

Just because I'm not white, you think I'm supposed to somehow have been affected by prejudice???? How racist is that!

OMG, seriously STFU trying to play your racist trump card. Heck, if you really want me to make a racist comment, I'd say "how typical of another black person using race as an excuse". Hell, I'm white and I've been affected by prejudice growing up in bad neighborhoods. I don't know ANYONE who HASN'T been affected by prejudice. How in the heck is my comment racist? It's friggin obvious that blacks had lots of prejudice against them in the past and heck, still do today. So uh, why in the hell would you want anyone else to have to go through any sort of prejudice and hate, even if minor, as blacks did? Is it because you want others to have to feel your pain? Or hey, here's a racist remark, which is actually true thinking and feelings for some racist blacks which you would probably fall under.. is it because homosexuality isn't limited to just one race which means whites can be gay.. and you want payback for those white homosexuals to go through what blacks had to? If so, what a 'tard. I feel sorry for the black homosexuals that you're giving up on. How could you do that to your people. Since you can do that, I sense a brainwashed Christian religious reasoning to your opinion on them.

Do you not care about blacks either? Are you a black girl who was brainwashed to be white so you don't care about your "lesser" blacks anymore? Just WTF is wrong with you? You of all people should be more caring and understanding towards gays and lesbians than any other racial group because your people had to go through the same exact things

Are you Fuc&jking Kidding Me!
How in your mothers name, should I know and care about men fuc&king men and women fuc&iking women which had nothing to do with slavery!!!!!! Moronic B.as#tard!

Seriously, you need to STFU again with your stupid exaggerations and comments. I'm not comparing homosexuals to slavery, I'm talking about the prejudice in which both groups, or basically ANY minority group had to go through, or does go through. But of course YOU would be the one to talk about slavery when your ass hasn't ever been a slave. You're just like the Jews of today that complain about the holocaust when those Jews complaining weren't in it. Now unless those Jews, or you, are old to have lived through those days, THEN you can talk, but since I highly doubt you are, you need to STFU with your complaints because you, nor those Jews, have it, or had it, as bad as they did in the past.

Freedom was our right by natural design and so is procreating. I know that marriage and children are two different things (jerk) and I mean one thing. That gay/lesbians should not be able to adopt or marry each other. It doesn't matter the reason. It's my personal belief and opinion only. Which I've stated from the beginning. You have every right to disagree. But the name calling (in which I too have been involved) is not necessary to make one's opinion openly discussed.

Yes, I know it's your opinion, but we're all pointing out the huge flaws in it. You've still yet to give an opinion on what you think of married couples that choose to not have kids or can't due to reproductive problems. They fall in the same catagory as gays since neither don't have kids unless the gays, as well as those with reproductive problems, choose to involve another person to help with procreation. By you not answering those examples, it clearly shows that "natural reproduction" isn't the reason why you dislike homosexuals.

And hey, name calling only makes things more fun and guarantees a response to one's post. ;)

You're not discriminating against some homo's.. you're just against those wanting to adopt children? Uh, do you even realize what you just said there? Hey everyone, I'm not a racist, I just don't want niggers drinking from the same water fountain as me.

Once again! I'm not discriminating against some homo's....I'm against all homo's who want to adopt children. That's it!
And you call me Racist?

It's the same damned thing. All those whites in the past didn't discriminate against SOME blacks either, they're just against ALL blacks wanting to drink from the same fountain as them.. or use the same bathroom.. or be near them on the bus.. or any other limitation placed upon them. You seriously don't get it. Since you love to play the "poor me racist card", damn since you don't get it, I guess blacks really ARE mentally inferior. Here's a b-ball, go involve yourself with something you should be good at rather than these discussions. Remember, that comment wasn't towards SOME blacks, it was towards ALL blacks because if it's against ALL of them, that mean's I'm not being racist or discriminating. Your thinking.
I've never stated that I wasn't prejudice!

Yeah, I can tell. I'm not prejudiced though, but damn, you're gonna start making me become it, heh.

Oh look.. you even put it in pretty colours for me.

I think she's secretly part of the Rainbow Coalition and is just giving us argument for the sake of it.

- N
 
quote by Bells
it can also be viewed as someone treating another differently regardless of the individual's merit because of class, race, sex, age, religion, etc.
That's exactly what gays/lesbians are asking us to do! Baron Max already made that point very clear. You want us to treat you like us but to also recognize that you're different. And pass laws because you're different. What :confused:

quoted by Bells
I'm sorry, you're equating homosexuals being allowed to marry as being the same as they being a murderer, rapist, child molester and criminal? To quote you... "huh"?Again, how does this help put you in a better light? The human race is not entirely heterosexual. The human race also consists of homosexuals. While you may belong to the human race, by viewing and treating homosexuals differently, you are in fact being a bigot.
it still does not put you in a better light...
Really Bells, why would you think I care about how better your light is. I don't type this to be put anywhere.
Again, let me clear this up Bells....this is what you said "Shame not everyone in society is allowed to do as they 'damn well please." and this was my response to that only! "Oh, I guess it's also a shame for murderers, rapists, child molesters and all criminals to get to do everything they damn well please too.. huh?"
The point about the human race was to try and find a group (since you claimed I must belong to in order to be a bigot) that consist of people like me. That's why I clearly said "heterosexuals like me!

by Bells
Being a woman doesn't mean anything in this argument about whether the State should finally see the light and give homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals in regards to marrying.
My being a woman has to do with gay men adopting children not about marrying. The two (in my opinion) kind of go hand in hand....meaning if they can get married then they can adopt...which is what I'm against. :(


by Bells
but just because I was born with a uterus and a couple of ovaries, does not mean that I was brought up to believe that I was made or designed to simply spread my legs and procreate or breed like some kind of breeding cow. I was not brought up and do not view that as being a woman's sole role or goal in life.
What you were brought up to believe has nothing to do with what your body was made for (one of the many things, I should add). It has nothing at all to do with it. I never said anything about it being your sole purpose. I almost feel that you're not really talking about what I said when you make your comments. Has someone else in your life told you otherwise?
And, no, to clarify on your other comments about other ways of getting pregnant, I don't agree with it. But that's a topic of discussion we can have on another post. I only believe a woman should get pregnant by a man that she has a serious relationship with. I have no problem with single parents raising children in a good environment if there's no other choice.


by Bells
And everything that goes on in your country is your business because...?
I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

You're the one who seems to think that a child would be better off being brought up by the State than by two parents who will love and cherish that child because of the parents sex orientation. Foster care is not all it's cracked up to be.
The key word in your statement is seems...because I never said that. But since you brought it up...let me tell you what I think.

I think that people need to keep their legs closed or at least use a better method of (birth control) child protection.
I think that the government needs to try and get children (that parents may have been killed) to other relatives and help them out financially (not a lot) until that child is 18. If no relative is willing to take the child. Then let a single stable person adopt the child and also help them financially (not a lot) until said child is 18 or is considered an adult in some states. But make sure the child is also put in programs while growing up...ie...boys and girls club....or something to that effect.
I think people who can't have their on children (except for gay/lesbian) to be first on the list to adopt whether single or married. (see above on being single). I think everyone before marriage should be ordered to take child care classes and marriage classes before entering a very important, life long commitment. I would rather pay my taxes taking care of children and education than paying taxes for welfare and unecessary war! If none of the above statements are enough then let the gay/lesbian community adopt with conditions....like social behavior studies and classes for the gay/lesbian couples therapy. (shi!t like that) Is this wrong?
:confused:


How so? Have you actually compared the treatment? I know you just see homosexuals as "homos" and therefore beneath your contempt, but have you ever actually thought about their treatment? Children who are homosexual are denied an education in their schools because they are mistreated by not only the students but also the staff for being born the way they are. Some are even suspended from school permanently. Hmmm.. it's akin to African Americans being denied an education because of their colour doesn't it? Homosexuals are often abused, bashed and killed on just about a daily basis because they are homosexual and born that way. Again, see the similarities of Blacks being bashed and killed for being black? Homosexuals are denied employment prospects because of their homosexuality. Again, note the similarities. Homosexuals are denied the right to marry. African Americans were also at one time denied the right to marry at law... Homosexuals are often denied the right to rent or buy a house because the agent won't deal or serve them because they are homosexual and they are often driven out of their homes because people like you abuse and mistreat them for being homosexual or "homos" as you so eloquently put it. Again stark similarities don't you think? African Americans were and are still often denied the right to live where they wish and denied the right to rent or buy because the agent refuses to deal with Blacks. There is more but I'm sure you're getting my point.
As for allllllll of this....let me say this....Christian people....Gods people....people with good hearts......Smart people ..............................
(so forth and so on).....are the ones who said slavery was wrong....those people and others went to war! over it (for many reasons) These are the same people who are telling you that this is wrong!
 
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QUOTE by Neildo
Seriously, STFU. Your whiney ass is insulting all of your people that actually did have to go through all the hardships. All because one minority group didn't have it as hard as the next doesn't mean you should just ignore them. Hell, we should ignore all blacks today since they didn't have it as bad as the blacks of the past. The blacks that complain today are insulting those of the past. And if you REALLY wanna talk about insults in how one minority group don't have it as hard as other minorities, I don't hear the friggin American Indians talkin shit about whiney ass blacks how EASY those blacks had it with their discrimination. You're such an uncaring bi***, seriously.
Seriously dude....all you can tell me is to STFU. Your really not worth a response...but here goes... :bugeye:
How am I insulting my (so claimed by you) people. I'm an american...that's it.
If they were being ignored then we would not be having this discussion now would we :eek:
It wouldn't be the first time blacks went ignored (your point is?)
Don't forget...I have indian blood running through my veins as well...oh back on point. It's because Indians are stronger than blacks and whites put together.
That's what I've been told when discussing subjects with a&&sholes, such as yourself!

by neildo
Those statistics also only talk about gays in high school.
But those statistics are just that. Real life problems (Sad but true).


by neildo
Heck, if you really want me to make a racist comment, I'd say "how typical of another black person using race as an excuse"
.
You're exactly what Bells accuses me of! A racist calling someone else a racist! but for you....it's true.
by neildo
Hell, I'm white and I've been affected by prejudice growing up in bad neighborhoods. I don't know ANYONE who HASN'T been affected by prejudice. How in the heck is my comment racist? It's friggin obvious that blacks had lots of prejudice against them in the past and heck, still do today. So uh, why in the hell would you want anyone else to have to go through any sort of prejudice and hate, even if minor, as blacks did? Is it because you want others to have to feel your pain? Or hey, here's a racist remark, which is actually true thinking and feelings for some racist blacks which you would probably fall under.. is it because homosexuality isn't limited to just one race which means whites can be gay.. and you want payback for those white homosexuals to go through what blacks had to?
As for aaallllaallll of this EVERYBODYS PREJUDICE!!!! Even Gays/Lesbians :eek:



by neildo
Seriously, you need to STFU again with your stupid exaggerations and comments. I'm not comparing homosexuals to slavery, I'm talking about the prejudice in which both groups, or basically ANY minority group had to go through, or does go through. But of course YOU would be the one to talk about slavery when your ass hasn't ever been a slave. You're just like the Jews of today that complain about the holocaust when those Jews complaining weren't in it. Now unless those Jews, or you, are old to have lived through those days, THEN you can talk, but since I highly doubt you are, you need to STFU with your complaints because you, nor those Jews, have it, or had it, as bad as they did in the past.
I guess you need to reread....You brought the subject of blacks and gay/lesbians.....not me....you compared slavery to having sex with the same sex person....not me!


Yes, I know it's your opinion, but we're all pointing out the huge flaws in it.
You're so smart....an opinion can't be flawed.......IT'S AN OPINION! DUDE!
Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

by neildo
I guess blacks really ARE mentally inferior. Here's a b-ball, go involve yourself with something you should be good at rather than these discussions. Remember, that comment wasn't towards SOME blacks, it was towards ALL blacks .
And I'm the prejudist racist huh......Bells....this is the person on your side (gays/lesbians) you can have him
 
ReighnStorm said:
That's exactly what gays/lesbians are asking us to do! Baron Max already made that point very clear. You want us to treat you like us but to also recognize that you're different. And pass laws because you're different. What :confused:
Ok. Let me get this straight. You think that giving homosexuals equal rights is to treat them differently and to recognise that they're different? Err ok. What you fail to realise is that homosexuals don't want to be recognised as different. Hence why they wish to be given the same rights as everyone else. For example, heterosexuals can marry but the way the law stands in the US and in many countries around the world, a homosexual cannot marry because they are deemed as being different. Do you understand now? Why differentiate between a homosexual and a heterosexual in regards to marriage? Why not let them marry? Why not let them be like everyone else? That's the whole point of this argument.

My being a woman has to do with gay men adopting children not about marrying. The two (in my opinion) kind of go hand in hand....meaning if they can get married then they can adopt...which is what I'm against.
And that has nothing to do with homosexuals marrying. They can already adopt children. They can also have children by natural means or through IVF if they so choose and I believe that many do prefer to head down that road so that they don't need to face the prejudice that because they're homosexual they can't raise children when trying to adopt. Marriage and having children do not go hand in hand. You may wish it were so but it's not. That's a Christian doctrine that is fast fading into the background. Your beliefs remind me of that childhood nursery rhyme of "first comes love, then comes marriage, and then comes baby in the nursery carriage". That little childhood diddy is not how it always is. Many people choose not to marry. Many people choose not to be in a relationship when they decide to have a child.

What you were brought up to believe has nothing to do with what your body was made for (one of the many things, I should add). It has nothing at all to do with it. I never said anything about it being your sole purpose. I almost feel that you're not really talking about what I said when you make your comments. Has someone else in your life told you otherwise?
I believe that my body is designed and made to survive. Just because I have a womb does not mean that my body is made to carry children. I could just have easily been born a male. I don't view my body's purpose or design by my sexual organ. The way you word the 'your body is made to procreate and bear fruit from your loins' seem so singular to me. It's almost as if you see that as a woman's only role in life. I understand that you've said that it's no one's sole purpose but the way you word it, it seems that is exactly what you are saying. By saying things like that, you discount the fact that not all women can have children so therefore, using your belief and argument, those women are somehow badly made or designed. That they aren't able to fulfil the duties that their bodies are designed for. Do you understand what I mean?

And, no, to clarify on your other comments about other ways of getting pregnant, I don't agree with it. But that's a topic of discussion we can have on another post. I only believe a woman should get pregnant by a man that she has a serious relationship with. I have no problem with single parents raising children in a good environment if there's no other choice.
Do you understand that when you say that a woman is designed to have children and that's what her body was made for, you're putting even more pressure on women who can't have children? And for those women, IVF and other treatments could be the only way to fulfil what you have deemed their design purpose. And you are correct, that is a subject for another topic.

If none of the above statements are enough then let the gay/lesbian community adopt with conditions....like social behavior studies and classes for the gay/lesbian couples therapy. (shi!t like that) Is this wrong?
You're correct that everyone who wishes to have children should have some sort of classes to teach them about what it takes to raise a child. But one's sexuality shouldn't come into it. But that's in an ideal world.

Homosexuals probably know more than most the difficulties of what their child will go through. And if they are happy together and love their child, why would they need couple's therapy or behaviour classes? Behaviour classes for what? The majority of homosexuals would not wish for their child to be homosexual because they (the parents) know how society treated them when they were young. Homosexual parents, like all parents, want only what's best for their child. If you can just begin to imagine all the crap they have to go through to be able to adopt a child... all the discrimination, abuse, insults from homophobes, pure rejection and hate and they still keep fighting to be able to adopt a child and give it a better home... they'd have to really want that child to go through that kind of treatment. If society sat back for one second and thought about the fact that they are willing to go that far for a child, to be demeaned and treated like shit and still want to adopt that child..

A homosexual friend of mine was telling me about some friends of his who were fighting tooth and nail to be allowed to adopt a mentally disabled child in the US. No one wants to adopt that child because she is so severely disabled. But they still want her anyway. They'd changed their house to suit the child's needs. They did everything you can possibly imagine to ensure that the child would have everything that she needed and they'd already fallen madly in love with her. It's been 5 years now and they're still fighting all the red tape because they are homosexual. So now they can only visit her once a fortnight with supervised visits because they are homosexual. They're apparently still fighting for the right to adopt her. They already pay for all her medical bills which are apparently fairly extensive. They pay for her to be tutored privately because it's so hard for her to manage at school and she's picked on because of her disability. They're basically doing everything for this child except be allowed to take her home... because they are homosexual. Most people would have given up. You're telling me that people like that should not be allowed to adopt?

As for allllllll of this....let me say this....Christian people....Gods people....people with good hearts......Smart people ..............................
(so forth and so on).....are the ones who said slavery was wrong....those people and others went to war! over it (for many reasons) These are the same people who are telling you that this is wrong!
Err was I talking about slavery? No. If you'd read correctly you'd see that I said that the treatment of homosexuals today is too similar to the treatment of African Americans in the past. I did not talk about slavery nor did I mean slavery. And as for the Christian people and God's people... err what does that have to do with anything? Ooohhh you're saying that the Christians and "God's people" are against homosexuals marrying? And? What's your point? "God's people" were known to be wrong in the past and they are wrong about this now. "God's people" have at times been guilty of atrocities that make us shudder with horror today. I don't trust "God's people" because they are a bunch of homophobic prats who hide their abuses of others behind a bible and then try to justify it because they are "God's people".

And of course slavery is wrong. I have never said that it was anything but abhorrent. Hell I'm descended from African slaves. And I can see that allowing homosexuals to marry is not wrong.
 
quote by Bells
What you fail to realise is that homosexuals don't want to be recognised as different. Hence why they wish to be given the same rights as everyone else.
That's like saying a Jacka&& wants to be recognized as an elephant even though it's a Jacka&& . Again Baron Max has already given you clear answers to this.

Once again....these are by opinions and beliefs....I'm not posting this to change your world....nothing you can say will change my opinion that gays/lesbians should adopt or get married. If they have there own children (poor children) then so be it. As I stated earlier and twice again...I said let them have what they want! The consequences will be yours to bear...If I pay taxes (which I do, not all so called negroes live on welfare) then I have a right to voice my opinion just like you....By the way, it's funny you had no commit about what would work, my idea......says alot about you! ;)

by reighnstorm
I think that people need to keep their legs closed or at least use a better method of (birth control) child protection.
I think that the government needs to try and get children (that parents may have been killed) to other relatives and help them out financially (not a lot) until that child is 18. If no relative is willing to take the child. Then let a single stable person adopt the child and also help them financially (not a lot) until said child is 18 or is considered an adult in some states. But make sure the child is also put in programs while growing up...ie...boys and girls club....or something to that effect.
I think people who can't have their on children (except for gay/lesbian) to be first on the list to adopt whether single or married. (see above on being single). I think everyone before marriage should be ordered to take child care classes and marriage classes before entering a very important, life long commitment. I would rather pay my taxes taking care of children and education than paying taxes for welfare and unecessary war! If none of the above statements are enough then let the gay/lesbian community adopt with conditions....like social behavior studies and classes for the gay/lesbian couples therapy. (shi!t like that) Is this wrong
?

No commit on this either huh? :bugeye:
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/may/05053106.html
 
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Baron, your argument is ridiculous. If we let blacks and women vote, does that open the door to children, goats, and extra-terrestrials voting?

OOOO! Wait, I see a chance to say something in latin! Oh, wait, it's only the Non Sequitur fallacy called a slippery slope, that doesn't have it's own name.
 
I guess you need to reread....You brought the subject of blacks and gay/lesbians.....not me....you compared slavery to having sex with the same sex person....not me!

Yes, I brought up the subjects of how blacks and gays are discriminated against. However, your response was basically "How DARE you compare gays to blacks" which means you're saying blacks went through worse things so you were the one to insinuate slavery because that's the only thing that gays haven't gone through yet all other social discrimination and prejudice between the two are the same.

How am I insulting my (so claimed by you) people. I'm an american...that's it.

Yeah, but where I quoted you, you first said "I never said I was black" as if some huge defensiveness all of a sudden happened, then you said you're American as if trying to hide the fact that you're black.. as if you're ashamed to be. That's why I said you'd be insulting others. Now if I read that wrong, then sorry, but that's how I interpreted it. Gotta love text.

Don't forget...I have indian blood running through my veins as well...oh back on point. It's because Indians are stronger than blacks and whites put together.

Wow, and you're speaking with such outrage because someone compares gay prejudice to black prejudice. Where's all the venom to speak out of the crimes that have happened to Indians which, might I add, is a million times worse. You basically call gays wimps because they haven't gone through what blacks do, why doesn't your Indian side call all the complaining blacks wimps because they didn't go through what Indians did?

But those statistics are just that. Real life problems (Sad but true).

But like I said, problems that almost everyone has to deal with. Those numbers are only as high as they were because it dealt with high schoolers and they're immature. Go find a study on various unpopular groups and you'll see similar results. So what's the point of adding those statistics to the discussion? The only reason would be to make it look as if gays are unfit to adopt children and well, it fails horrendously. You can't compare petty high school problems to older mature people that have gone through that stage who now want to adopt kids.

You're exactly what Bells accuses me of! A racist calling someone else a racist! but for you....it's true.

Nope, not a racist. I'm purposely talking shit to you as I tend to do with most idiots that have yet to socially evolve. Bigots, racists, prejudiced people all fall under that category and well, you're one. And no, I'm not gay either just in case you think that's why I'm tossing heat your way.


As for aaallllaallll of this EVERYBODYS PREJUDICE!!!! Even Gays/Lesbians

Yep and that just proves how idiotic your statements are. What were my comments in response to that you quoted?

"Just because I'm not white, you think I'm supposed to somehow have been affected by prejudice???? How racist is that!"

See? Calling me a racist all because of that. It's the stupid stuff you say which is making me talk shit to you. If you're calling me a racist for something I said that isn't racist, I'm gonna at least start saying racist things to you if I'm gonna be labelled one.

You're so smart....an opinion can't be flawed.......IT'S AN OPINION! DUDE!
Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

Actually, no, those aren't your opinions, they're your BELIEFS. And beliefs are accepted as truth, which is why I said your beliefs (I actually said opinion but that's not what I meant) have so many flaws in them. And god, what a racist. You think all cause I'm white, you can start saying "dude" around me. Damn, boo. :rolleyes:

It's the same damned thing. All those whites in the past didn't discriminate against SOME blacks either, they're just against ALL blacks wanting to drink from the same fountain as them.. or use the same bathroom.. or be near them on the bus.. or any other limitation placed upon them. You seriously don't get it. Since you love to play the "poor me racist card", damn since you don't get it, I guess blacks really ARE mentally inferior. Here's a b-ball, go involve yourself with something you should be good at rather than these discussions. Remember, that comment wasn't towards SOME blacks, it was towards ALL blacks because if it's against ALL of them, that mean's I'm not being racist or discriminating. Your thinking.

And I'm the prejudist racist huh......Bells....this is the person on your side (gays/lesbians) you can have him

As I said, I'm gonna follow up with a stupid comment for each of yours. If you would hint the sarcasm, it was in response so your comment of:

"Once again! I'm not discriminating against some homo's....I'm against all homo's who want to adopt children. That's it!
And you call me Racist?"

As you can see, my comment wasn't racist or discriminatory according to you since it wasn't directed at some blacks, but rather all. Hey, equal opportunity, I guess. :rolleyes:

I think that people need to keep their legs closed or at least use a better method of (birth control) child protection.
I think that the government needs to try and get children (that parents may have been killed) to other relatives and help them out financially (not a lot) until that child is 18. If no relative is willing to take the child. Then let a single stable person adopt the child and also help them financially (not a lot) until said child is 18 or is considered an adult in some states. But make sure the child is also put in programs while growing up...ie...boys and girls club....or something to that effect.
I think people who can't have their on children (except for gay/lesbian) to be first on the list to adopt whether single or married. (see above on being single). I think everyone before marriage should be ordered to take child care classes and marriage classes before entering a very important, life long commitment. I would rather pay my taxes taking care of children and education than paying taxes for welfare and unecessary war! If none of the above statements are enough then let the gay/lesbian community adopt with conditions....like social behavior studies and classes for the gay/lesbian couples therapy. (shi!t like that) Is this wrong?

I almost agree with that completely, except I need a definition of what you consider "a single stable person" to mean. Does that mean, only a heterosexual person can ever be stable? If so, pure BS. Otherwise if you mean anyone regardless of sex or sexual preference, then I agree. The other thing I disagree with is your limitation on only allowing adoptions to be done by a single person. Being brought up by a single parent is the WORSE thing that can be done. It's worse than having a kid brought up with a house full of homosexuals or anything else you can think of that might sound bad. Single parents just don't have the time these days for their kids and that neglection is what leads to most problems kids have such as the problems listed below in the article quote.

And hey, I responded to that, now where's your response to some of our questions? Such as, since natural reproduction is the reason why you don't want homosexuals to marry, what is your opinion on couples that get married but choose to not have kids or couples that get married and want to have kids but can't biologically due to reproductive problems? And also, since you as a black/indian/whatever-else-you-may-be woman who has gone through prejudice, or at least the majority of those two racials groups have, why would you wish others, such as gays, or anyone for that matter, to go through that; as minor as it may be?

Among children raised by same-sex couples, the report notes a significant increase in low self-esteem, stress, confusion regarding sexual identity, an increase in mental illness, drug use, promiscuity, STD’s, and homosexual behaviour, amongst others. Furthermore, the report shows that statistics have brought to light the fact that same-sex relationships betray a much higher instance of separation and break-up than heterosexual relationships, increasing the likelihood that the child will experience familial instability.

Quoted for that article you linked, those are the reasons why homosexuals are unfit to adopt children? Sorry, but that's some funny ass stuff right there. Who the hell doesn't have those problems at one time or another? Not to mention those studies were probably in the 90's which is when sex in the media started becoming real popular which meant kids started becoming more sexually active, partying, takin more drugs than usual and whatnot. Not to mention those problems exist within heterosexual families as well. And what's with same-sex relationships having a higher instance of seperation and break-up? Lol. I know many heterosexual people that have gone through relationships like crazy. No way am I saying homosexuals that adopt children are perfect because nobody is. Bad homosexual adoptees exist just like bad heterosexual adoptees exist. Those orphanges need to do better in choosing people to release the child to. But sexual preference has nothing to do with them being worse than the next. A bad person is just a bad person regardless.

There was other stuff I was gonna post, but uh, I forgot what I was gonna say.

- N
 
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Bells said:
What you fail to realise is that homosexuals don't want to be recognised as different. Hence why they wish to be given the same rights as everyone else.

Well, okay ...are gay males human males? If they are, then they should be subject to the same laws as normal males, right? Normal males can't marry other males, so regarding marriage laws, gay males and normal males are treated exactly the same, aren't they?

See? Gays already have the SAME rights as normal males. Ahh, but what gays want is to be treated the same according to the law ....EXCEPT the marriage laws!! Now I get it ......you DO want to be treated differently ...special cases.

Bells said:
What you fail to realise is that homosexuals don't want to be recognised as different.

Oh, really? Explain to me how the marriage laws DO NOT treat gays the same as heteros. Normal males can't marry males, gay males can't marry males ....Ahh, damn, it's the same, ain't it!

Baron Max
 
ReighnStorm said:
That's like saying a Jacka&& wants to be recognized as an elephant even though it's a Jacka&& . Again Baron Max has already given you clear answers to this.
I'd put Baron on ignore long ago. He does not post any valid argument, instead spamming the same thing over and over again in not just this thread but in other threads as well. Baron does not participate in the discussion, he merely disrupts it.

As to what he'd said previously and what you're quite happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with him on.. and I guess he's about the only person on your side in this argument and my aren't you lucky in that regard... is that the laws were changed to prevent homosexuals from marrying.

Once again....these are by opinions and beliefs....I'm not posting this to change your world....nothing you can say will change my opinion that gays/lesbians should adopt or get married. If they have there own children (poor children) then so be it.
Funny that... You see I tend to pity the children born of puritanical parents who portray themselves as being sooo good because they defend the rights of one group all while fighting to deny another group the same rights. You know the one's I mean? The good Christian people.. God's people.. Who will gladly hate and demean another while holding a Bible in their hand as though it were a shield when in fact they are mere cowards hiding behind the Bible because of their narrow mindedness.

As I stated earlier and twice again...I said let them have what they want! The consequences will be yours to bear...
What consequences? That their children will grow up and not discriminate against others and not be bigots? Err I think we need more people like that in the world.

If I pay taxes (which I do, not all so called negroes live on welfare) then I have a right to voice my opinion just like you...
I'm sorry, did I ever say anything about negroes living on welfare? I think you're confusing me with your buddy Baron. He's the one who makes such stupid comments. But as you say and you are quite correct in this, I am free to voice my opinion, just as you are free to voice yours and I guess Baron is just as free to voice his racist little opinion against negroes. I must admit though, you two do make strange bedfellows.

By the way, it's funny you had no commit about what would work, my idea......says alot about you!
I did comment on the part I thought relevant and the fact that you failed to see it says a lot about you. But I can comment on the whole thing since you seem to need it...

I think that people need to keep their legs closed or at least use a better method of (birth control) child protection.
Really? Why? So that they don't abandon them or dump them on the State? Hey, you're the one who keeps harping on about how a woman is "designed" to procreate and have children... how it's what women are made for. I guess some other women see themselves in the same light and procreate and do what their bodies are "designed" to do, just like you do. So why are you complaining about it now?

I think that the government needs to try and get children (that parents may have been killed) to other relatives and help them out financially (not a lot) until that child is 18.
What about the children who's parents are both drug addicts and dump them on the State and their families just don't want them or they have no families? You are aware that not all children in foster care or in State institutions are orphans aren't you? The majority were rejected by their parents.. But your solution... ?...

If no relative is willing to take the child. Then let a single stable person adopt the child and also help them financially (not a lot) until said child is 18 or is considered an adult in some states.
What? You are now advocating that a single parent is better than two parents? Most single stable people don't want to burden themselves with children. So what now?

But make sure the child is also put in programs while growing up...ie...boys and girls club....or something to that effect.
What? Is this to make sure that the boys grow up to be men who know what society expects from them and girls grow up to be women who know their place in society? Keep the two apart and teach them the good Christian values of what a man should be and what a woman should be? Teach them that they have to keep their legs closed and sex should only come after marriage? Even when I type that in jest I feel kind of sick at the thought... it's all so hypocritical and so puritanical...

I think people who can't have their on children (except for gay/lesbian) to be first on the list to adopt whether single or married. (see above on being single).
Ah but that's only in a perfect world. You see Reighn, most of those who can't have children like to choose their babies. So the one's not picked because they're too old, come from a troubled past, are disabled, not the right colour, etc are left behind. And not all children in the State system are babies.

And can I remind you again, gays and lesbians can have children of their own. Very few adopt. The majority who have children have children who are in fact their own. Some do adopt and to be allowed to adopt, they go through 100 times the hassle other people do. They have to prove themselves 100 times over and also have to be 100 times wealthier because they are homosexual.

I think everyone before marriage should be ordered to take child care classes and marriage classes before entering a very important, life long commitment. I would rather pay my taxes taking care of children and education than paying taxes for welfare and unecessary war! If none of the above statements are enough then let the gay/lesbian community adopt with conditions....like social behavior studies and classes for the gay/lesbian couples therapy. (shi!t like that) Is this wrong?
I have already addressed this in a previous post.
 
Sorry.. left out this bit..

ReighnStorm said:
HEH!

You seriously expect any normal, educated individual to take this site seriously? It's a Christian fundamentalist site Reighn. I'm still wiping tears of laughter from my eyes after reading some of the stuff on that site... Did you even read some of the things that were on that site? Or did you just zero in on the 'report'.. of which interestingly enough they only give a link to the Spanish version of the "Report" itself and the other link is to another Christian fundamentalist and evangelical site.

I actually have a pain in my side from laughing so much about this LifeSite's spotlight on "The problem of Harry Potter"... And I have to tell you, being around 6 weeks from my due date, laughing so hard at the moment is painful... I know this is way off topic and I apologise but damn this is funny...

O'Brien's essay is an education in morally sound versus morally dangerous fantasy literature for children. The work goes beyond criticizing the Potter series and stirs the conscience to reflect more seriously on the loss of traditional faith and the danger posed by the secular entertainment media. O'Brien acknowledges the Potter series is a creative, imaginative and powerful drama filled with enticing ideas. However, the allure created, according to O'Brien, heightens the danger that the crude and morally confused concepts will be assimilated and put into practice - especially by some of the more vulnerable in the target audience of impressionable children.
http://www.lifesite.net/features/harrypotter/

This site is a hoot Reighn! I still can't believe that you posted it in the hope it would support your argument... LOL!! Thanks for the laugh though.. I'm bookmarking that site and showing it to the other half.. Pissant funny! :D

Anywho.. sorry to have diverted off topic.. but that was too funny to ignore..
 
by neildo
Yes, I brought up the subjects of how blacks and gays are discriminated against
Exactly!
by neildo
Yeah, but where I quoted you, you first said "I never said I was black" as if some huge defensiveness all of a sudden happened, then you said you're American as if trying to hide the fact that you're black..
NO reasons to hide....far from it....I'm colorblind as you should be!
Key word in this is Yeah!
quoted by neildo Where's all the venom to speak out of the crimes that have happened to Indians which, might I add, is a million times worse
Which is why I said they are stronger than blacks and whites :bugeye: !
quote by neildo
But like I said, problems that almost everyone has to deal with. So what's the point of adding those statistics to the discussion? The only reason would be to make it look as if gays are unfit to adopt children and well, it fails horrendously. You can't compare petty high school problems to older mature people that have gone through that stage who now want to adopt kids.
I said the same thing...so we agree on that?
You said it, I didn't. And it would only fail to a person with blinders on like you. Someone who's scared to recognize the negative's in the matter!
by neildo
Nope, not a racist. I'm not gay
Stop lying :eek: !
by neildo
Actually, no, those aren't your opinions, they're your BELIEFS. And god, what a racist. You think all cause I'm white, you can start saying "dude" around me. Damn, boo.
Opinions are beliefs smarty! You're so smart.
And now you claim that the word Dude is a white word?????
"Once again! I'm not discriminating against some homo's....I'm against all homo's who want to adopt children. That's it!
And you call me Racist?
Again racism means - "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. A homosexual is a man. I'm not racist against a man. A lesbian is a woman. I'm not racist against a woman.
quoted by neildo
I almost agree with that completely, except I need a definition of what you consider "a single stable person" to mean. Does that mean, only a heterosexual person can ever be stable?
A single stable person (I can't believe I have to tell you this!) is someone with good family values, stable emotional behavior, stable work ethic, Extended family...ie...parents, sister/s, brother/s, to help with rearing child/ren. A person with strength....and before you say it. I said single stable person who could in fact, be gay...Your opinion about single parenting is just that! An opinion. Some people (like myself) would disagree.
by neildo
No way am I saying homosexuals that adopt children are perfect because nobody is. Bad homosexual adoptees exist just like bad heterosexual adoptees exist. Those orphanges need to do better in choosing people to release the child to.
This is one of the many reasons I listen to you and Bells argument. You can call me what you want but the end result is I'd rather protect the children who have no say so, instead of turning my back on certain people and subjects. History has proven time and time again that some people can't make good decisions when faced with real life problems.
 
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quote by bells
What you fail to realise is that homosexuals don't want to be recognised as different.Why not let them be like everyone else? That's the whole point of this argument. Hence, why they wish to be given the same rights as everyone else.
So that means that gay men can marry women and lesbian women can marry men? They would be treated like us other folk then right? Let me clear another thing up for you. I am from Florida! It's not legal for gays to adopt or marry there (unless they're in the closet).
So they are in fact:
Bigots( One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ) who wants us to
Discriminate (To make distinctions on the basis of class or category without regard to individual merit; show preference or prejudice) against them?
by bells
You see I tend to pity the children born of puritanical parents who portray themselves as being sooo good because they defend the rights of one group all while fighting to deny another group the same rights.You know the one's I mean?

The good Christian people.. God's people.. Who will gladly hate and demean another while holding a Bible in their hand as though it were a shield when in fact they are mere cowards hiding behind the Bible because of their narrow mindedness.
In order to have a defense, one must first have an offense. No one in the world will agree on everything at the same time. But I thought you said that homo/les. are in the same category...wanted to be treated the same....and yet know you recognize them as different?
And the so called good christian people..like I stated "The very people/book (type) who told you that slavery was/is wrong, stealing is wrong, prostitution is wrong, lying is wrong, MURDERING is wrong, infedility is wrong....the very same people(book) that told you these things are the very same people(book) that's telling you now! That homosexuality...ie...gay/lesbian adoption and marriage is wrong. And you trust in it then, but you don't trust it now. You guys (past,present) are the same people who thought slavery was right, rape was ok , being gay is ok. You're the same people that have to be told to put on fuc&king seatbelt to save your own life! How insane is that! :bugeye:
by bells
What consequences?
http://moodle.ed.uiuc.edu/wiked/index.php/GLBTC
o Lesbian and gay youth commit 30% of the completed suicides annually with suicide being the leading cause of death.
o 28% of gay/lesbians high school students in a national study were seen to have dropped out of school because of harassment resulting from their sexual orientation.
o 45% of gay and 20% of lesbian reports having experienced verbal harassment and or physical violence as a result of their sexual orientation during high school (Youth Pride Inc.1997)
Dropout 28% of gay/lesbian high school students in a national study were seen to have dropped out of school because of harassment resulting from their sexual orientation.
Suicide: 30% of the completed youth suicides are committed by lesbian and gay youth annually and suicide is their leading cause of death.
Violence: 45% of gay and 20% of lesbians report having experienced verbal harassment and/or physical violence as a result of their sexual orientation during high school
Homelessness: 26% of gay and lesbian youth are forced to leave home because of conflicts with their families over their sexual identities.
Student Attitudes: 97% of students in public high schools report regularly hearing homophobic remarks from their peers.
Isolation: 80% of lesbian, gay and bisexual youth report severe isolation problems. They experience social isolation, emotional isolation and cognitive isolation.

Here are a few :eek:
by bells
So that they don't abandon them or dump them on the State?
Of course that's why! Are you this stupid? Less children being born to children and grown ups who don't want them is better for everyone else.
by bells
Is this to make sure that the boys grow up to be men who know what society expects from them and girls grow up to be women who know their place in society? Keep the two apart and teach them the good Christian values of what a man should be and what a woman should be? Teach them that they have to keep their legs closed and sex should only come after marriage? Even when I type that in jest I feel kind of sick at the thought... it's all so hypocritical and so puritanical...
Their place in life, without question, is totally up to them once their grown ups...if you're going to rear a child then you should already know these things. A grown up can make better decisions for himself once he's experienced different things as a child....so giving him the opportunity to grow in culture, whether it's the boys and girls club, boyscouts, girlscouts, different activities at school, big brothers, big sisters programs...so forth and so on...it will give him a sense of what the world will be like as an adult. As for being gay or lesbian....that's a natural part of who you were born to be...no one can change that part of you!
(In red) You mean to tell me that you get literally sick to your stomach at the thought of children waiting to be married before SEX???? What kind of parent are you going to be??? To be frank.....you make me sick. And furthermore.....A man (naturally) is supposed to be with (procreate) with a woman....no ifs ands or buts about! It's what nature intended...period!
by bells
And can I remind you again, gays and lesbians can have children of their own. Very few adopt. The majority who have children have children who are in fact their own. Some do adopt and to be allowed to adopt, they go through 100 times the hassle other people do. They have to prove themselves 100 times over and also have to be 100 times wealthier because they are homosexual.
I know from personal experience that growing up in a homosexual household is not the best experience! Not good at all :bugeye: which is why I'm against gay marriage and adoption. If they have their own children (poor children) then so be it. I'm going to say this for the last time. "I said that gays/lesbians can marry and adopt". I don't like it, but why should that stop them. I'm living my life and I have my own children.
by bells
This site is a hoot Reighn! I still can't believe that you posted it in the hope it would support your argument... LOL!! Thanks for the laugh though.. I'm bookmarking that site and showing it to the other half.. Pissant funny!
"Among children raised by same-sex couples, the report notes a significant increase in low self-esteem, stress, confusion regarding sexual identity, an increase in mental illness, drug use, promiscuity, STD’s, and homosexual behaviour, amongst others. Furthermore, the report shows that statistics have brought to light the fact that same-sex relationships betray a much higher instance of separation and break-up than heterosexual relationships, increasing the likelihood that the child will experience familial instability".
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/may/05053106.html
So this if funny to you huh??? Says alot about you!
 
Last edited:
ReighnStorm said:
In order to have a defense, one must first have an offense. No one in the world will agree on everything at the same time. But I thought you said that homo/les. are in the same category...wanted to be treated the same....and yet know you recognize them as different?
Do I distinguish them as different? I treat them like I treat everyone else. They're human beings Reighn. Hence why they should be given the same rights as every other human being.

And the so called good christian people..like I stated "The very people/book (type) who told you that slavery was/is wrong, stealing is wrong, prostitution is wrong, lying is wrong, MURDERING is wrong, infedility is wrong....the very same people(book) that told you these things are the very same people(book) that's telling you now! That homosexuality...ie...gay/lesbian adoption and marriage is wrong. And you trust in it then, but you don't trust it now. You guys (past,present) are the same people who thought slavery was right, rape was ok , being gay is ok. You're the same people that have to be told to put on fuc&king seatbelt to save your own life! How insane is that!
Good grief! The pretty colours again. Reighn, have you been snorting bleach up your nose?

Christianity is the bane of humanity. Christianity tells you to love all man but places condition on how to love and who to love. Christianity is the most hypocritical organisation I've ever come across. You may be a bible thumping peon, but do not assume that everyone is the same as you. And what in the hell is with the "you guys"? You mean me? Lady, I suggest you take your bible and stick it where the sun don't shine... you know the place don't you Reighn? It's the place your body was designed to allow crap to come out.. in your case I'm not sure if that is your backside or your mouth.

And might I remind you Reighn that the people who used to think that slavery was "right" were Christians and bible thumpers just like you are proclaiming yourself as being today.. the so called "God's people". In fact, slave owners and traders used to hide behind the bible because they thought it was their God given right to treat others that way because they were black and inferior... as though the African were a friggin ape. And you're using them to support your argument? And where in the hell did you read that I said rape was ok? You're the one who kept saying that a woman who shows her breasts invites rape. Seeing the amount of priests who are being accused of sexual abuse on children and rape of children, you should really watch what you say. And being gay is ok. You are born gay and you can't help being gay. As for wearing my seatbelt. What in the hell are you on? Are you typing these posts from a mental institution?

http://moodle.ed.uiuc.edu/wiked/index.php/GLBTC
o Lesbian and gay youth commit 30% of the completed suicides annually with suicide being the leading cause of death.
o 28% of gay/lesbians high school students in a national study were seen to have dropped out of school because of harassment resulting from their sexual orientation.
o 45% of gay and 20% of lesbian reports having experienced verbal harassment and or physical violence as a result of their sexual orientation during high school (Youth Pride Inc.1997)
Dropout 28% of gay/lesbian high school students in a national study were seen to have dropped out of school because of harassment resulting from their sexual orientation.
Suicide: 30% of the completed youth suicides are committed by lesbian and gay youth annually and suicide is their leading cause of death.
Violence: 45% of gay and 20% of lesbians report having experienced verbal harassment and/or physical violence as a result of their sexual orientation during high school
Homelessness: 26% of gay and lesbian youth are forced to leave home because of conflicts with their families over their sexual identities.
Student Attitudes: 97% of students in public high schools report regularly hearing homophobic remarks from their peers.
Isolation: 80% of lesbian, gay and bisexual youth report severe isolation problems. They experience social isolation, emotional isolation and cognitive isolation.
Here are a few
Oh this is rich! This is the second time you've posted this as though it's some trump card. Reighn, did you even read the information about those statistics? It's people like you and the other bible thumping freaks who hate homosexuals so much and who make the lives of homosexuals such nightmares. Who do you think abuse and beat them up? Homophobes such as yourself. Who do you think drives a homosexual teenager to suicide? Having a parent like you who won't accept or love them for being born the way they were. Who do you think harrasses homosexual students to the point where they have to leave school or are abused and bashed in schools? People like you! It's people like you with attitudes like yours who drive them to the point of suicide. For goodness sake lady, get a clue!

Of course that's why! Are you this stupid? Less children being born to children and grown ups who don't want them is better for everyone else.
And it's nice to see you can't even recognise sarcasm.

Their place in life, without question, is totally up to them once their grown ups...if you're going to rear a child then you should already know these things. A grown up can make better decisions for himself once he's experienced different things as a child....so giving him the opportunity to grow in culture, whether it's the boys and girls club, boyscouts, girlscouts, different activities at school, big brothers, big sisters programs...so forth and so on...it will give him a sense of what the world will be like as an adult. As for being gay or lesbian....that's a natural part of who you were born to be...no one can change that part of you!
My word! She's finally understood. No one can change someone from being homosexual. They were born that way. As for the rest of that... I'm not one of those people who give little boys only cars and guns to play with and little girls dolls so that each knows their place in life. My child will grow up to respect everyone and their culture will allow them to experience life to the fullest..
"Among children raised by same-sex couples, the report notes a significant increase in low self-esteem, stress, confusion regarding sexual identity, an increase in mental illness, drug use, promiscuity, STD’s, and homosexual behaviour, amongst others. Furthermore, the report shows that statistics have brought to light the fact that same-sex relationships betray a much higher instance of separation and break-up than heterosexual relationships, increasing the likelihood that the child will experience familial instability".
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/may/05053106.html
So this if funny to you huh??? Says alot about you!
What report? Oh you mean the report that's only in Spanish and is only alluded to in the story? And you're damn straight that site was funny. Did you even read the Harry Potter section where they caution parents about letting their children read Potter or Lord of the Rings because it contains magic and sorcery and could turn children towards the devil. You expect me to take anything from a site that can say such things about a kids book seriously? LOL! That site is a Christian fundamentalist and evangelical site. Most people with even half a brain would know to not take anything from a site like that seriously. But I guess it says a lot about you that you would take it seriously...
 
ReighnStorm said:
(In red) You mean to tell me that you get literally sick to your stomach at the thought of children waiting to be married before SEX???? What kind of parent are you going to be??? To be frank.....you make me sick. And furthermore.....A man (naturally) is supposed to be with (procreate) with a woman....no ifs ands or buts about! It's what nature intended...period!
Since you changed your post after I'd already posted mine in response to you, I shall just address this little bit of poo now.

Whether my children wait for marriage or not before sex will be their choice and their business. And the kind of parent I'm going to be Reighn is actually none of your business. You see Reighn, you may view yourself as some sort of freakish mother to all children because you're a woman, but you aren't the mother of mine. At least my children will be lucky enough to have parents who will teach them to not be like you. And I make you sick? Hey... if people who believe in equal rights make you sick then that's your problem, not mine.

As to who a man is supposed to have sex with. That's just your opinion isn't it... Luckily for all of us, your opinion in the whole scheme of things means diddly squat. You are but one hateful little voice that most educated people either ignore or treat with derision. Maybe that's why you're so bitter... who knows. If man was meant to only procreate with a woman, then homoesexuality would not exist. Yet it does. In your own words, "no if's or but's about it".. and whats more Reighn, homosexuality also exists elsewhere in nature as well.
 
QUOTE Bells
Do I distinguish them as different? I treat them like I treat everyone else. They're human beings Reighn.
No...to you their homosexual human...not just human...which means that they aren't the same. How you treat them? If you treat them like everyone else, judging by your post then I'm surprised you even have friends or are these the only type of people who would befriend you?
by Bells
Good grief! The pretty colours again. Reighn, have you been snorting bleach up your nose?
No, but you probably are....your poor child to come.
by Bells
It's people like you
freaks who hate homosexuals
You may be a bible thumping peon,
Lady, I suggest you take your bible and
stick it where the sun don't shine...
Reighn, have you been snorting bleach up your nose?

Yeah your a real inspiration here!.... Your a real lady aren't you...your poor child :( !
Just Filth
by Bells
Christianity is the bane of humanity
That's your opinion, not a fact.
by Bells
And might I remind you Reighn that the people who used to think that slavery was "right" were Christians and bible thumpers

Just because you proclaim to be religious and carry a bible does not make you a Christian! Rednecks and some homo's thought that slavery was right as well. Hell, there even some homosexual christians. Christianity is not an organization.
by Bells
who hate homosexuals so much and who make the lives of homosexuals such nightmares. Who do you think abuse and beat them up? Who do you think drives a homosexual teenager to suicide? Having a parent who won't accept or love them for being born the way they were. Who do you think harrasses homosexual students to the point where they have to leave school or are abused and bashed in schools? It's people like you with attitudes like yours who drive them to the point of suicide.
You're making my point Bells...I never said or would say that this was right or ok. The reason I keep posting it is to show you the real life (whether good or bad) of what being gay or being raised by gay people has been and will continue to be....just like racism is still here, racial crimes is still happening right now even though black people have been free for over 100 years! And yes homophobic - Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men - people are to blame! That's been my point from the beginning....you want us to allow the marriage and adoption when we can't even stop this from happening. The situation will just get worse...why would you want to bring a child into that. And you claim to be a mature adult. (HA) I laugh in your face.
(These are in fact, not people like me)
by Bells
My word! She's finally understood.
I said this long before your post to me Bells!
by Bells
And you're damn straight that site was funny
.
The site might be funny to people like you (irresponsible)....but the subject that I was speaking on is not funny at all. :mad:
by Bells
Did you even read the Harry Potter section where they caution parents about letting their children read Potter or Lord of the Rings because it contains magic and sorcery and could turn children towards the devil.
witchcraft is still the fastest–growing religion in America today, If that doesn't alarm you then fine...it might be because of you're beliefs or non beliefs...but to laugh at what other believe and what others concerns are without even thinking about it...then you're no better than a phobic yourself. At least I'm commited enough to debate and to be called names for what I believe. You've been offensive all the way.....So what does that say about You???? This is the evolution of society that we're just supposed to accept without question ?????:bugeye: What kind of person would just accept things without question! Just plain old irresponsible so called woman aren't you?
 
by Bells
Whether my children wait for marriage or not before sex will be their choice and their business.
You think that now...but not later...just wait...you ought to be ashamed of such a thing to say about not caring about who and when your child has sex. Shame on you! It's not about being in their business....it's about caring enough about them and their business....I can tell you aren't a parent yet!, and will probably not be a good one! :bugeye:
As to who a man is supposed to have sex with. That's just your opinion isn't it...
No I don't suppose (to assume to be true or real for the sake of
argument or explanation) to know...I know with definitive proof that a man is designed (remember hole and stick) to be with a woman to mainly continue the blood line. If everyone is homosexual then humankind will no longer exist.(not that this will ever happen-cross my fingers-) but that is what your saying is o. k.!
by bells
If man was meant to only procreate with a woman, then homoesexuality would not exist.homosexuality also exists elsewhere in nature as well.
There are flaws and diseases in every earth being.

by bells
if people who believe in equal rights make you sick then that's your problem, not mine
That's just it! They have the same rights as you and me....a man can marry a woman vice versa....they can adopt as well....Your point?????? :confused:
 
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