samcdkey on Islam

[(Q)]

All men who achieve power do so because they have the ambition and hunger for it.

Some have it more than others and become dictators and will do anything to retain their power.

Based on the evidence, it makes NO difference whether they use God or gulags to achieve their aim.

Muhammed.

 

[S.A.M.]

Muhammed.

So you believe the oral history (written more than a 100 years after his death) about one man who lived 1400 years ago but not the written (and reported) history of 3 (and more) men who lived in the last 100? :bugeye:

 

[(Q)]

I have a feeling that people are fooling themselves all over again.

You know, get rid of religion and secularism will be a natural consequence.

Thats like erasing the whole history of man and pretending he's something he's not.

Complete bs. Then we shouldn't have irradicated cannibalism because that's part of the history of those tribes who practiced it.

When something is clearly wrong, regardless of whether it's been practiced for hundreds of years, doesn't make it right. Religion is now who we are, sam. Religion is the pretending of something we are not.

Secularism can only come through tolerance. Intolerance breeds conflict, nothing more.
And its sad that those who want it most are the biggest blockades to it.

Religion condones intolerance, that is a fact, and Islam is one of the most intolerant religions on the planet. The most tolerance any society shows is that of secular societies.

You've got to be blind and stupid not to see and understand that.

 

[S.A.M.]

Complete bs. Then we shouldn't have irradicated cannibalism because that's part of the history of those tribes who practiced it.

When something is clearly wrong, regardless of whether it's been practiced for hundreds of years, doesn't make it right. Religion is now who we are, sam. Religion is the pretending of something we are not.

Religion condones intolerance, that is a fact, and Islam is one of the most intolerant religions on the planet. The most tolerance any society shows is that of secular societies.

You've got to be blind and stupid not to see and understand that.

I see what you mean about the intolerance of religion.

You yourself are the best example that religion has nothing to do with tolerance.

 

[(Q)]

So you believe the oral history (written more than a 100 years after his death) about one man who lived 1400 years ago but not the written (and reported) 3 (and more) men who lived in the last 100? :bugeye:

Another strawman argument, sam.

And by saying that, you yourself are a hypocrite to your beliefs.

 

[S.A.M.]

Another strawman argument, sam.

And by saying that, you yourself are a hypocrite to your beliefs.

No I want to understand what is the basis of your conclusions about either.

 

[(Q)]

I see what you mean about the intolerance of religion.

How can that be? You belong to one of most intolerant and dangerous religions. You see only that which was your indoctrination.

 

[S.A.M.]

How can that be? You belong to one of most intolerant and dangerous religions. You see only that which was your indoctrination.

Whats your excuse?

 

[(Q)]

No I want to understand what is the basis of your conclusions about either.

You made the conclusion yourself. See your previous posts.

 

[(Q)]

Whats your excuse?

Excuse for what?

 

[S.A.M.]

You made the conclusion yourself. See your previous posts.

Read properly:

No I want to understand what is the basis of your conclusions about either.

Either being:

1. A collection of oral traditions 100 years after death is an accurate and exact representation of a man

2. Reported history on dictators who happened to be atheists are skewed, selective and miniscule.

 

[S.A.M.]

Excuse for what?

Your intolerance of all those you (and I mean you personally) consider as being less than perfect.

 

[(Q)]

Your intolerance of all those you (and you personally) consider as being less than perfect.

Ah yes, the old tired argument of people are bad, religion good.

When are you going to get it through your thick skull that people are inherently good but the religious ideologies they follow are dangerous and should be irradicated?

You're a good person, sam, I know that, I acknowledge that, but the religious ideology you follow will be the destruction of us all.

Those religious ideologies are what demand intolerance if we are to survive.

 

[S.A.M.]

Ah yes, the old tired argument of people are bad, religion good.

When are you going to get it through your thick skull that people are inherently good but the religious ideologies they follow are dangerous and should be irradicated?

That's not an answer. I asked "you personally".

There was no mention of bad people or good religion.

You're a good person, sam, I know that, I acknowledge that, but the religious ideology you follow will be the destruction of us all.

And you are not a good person.

The two facts by themselves should tell you that your theory stinks.

Those religious ideologies are what demand intolerance if we are to survive.

Men like you, with their twisted ideas of righteousness are more dangerous to secularism than any religion could ever be.

 

[(Q)]

That's not an answer. I asked "you personally".

There was no mention of bad people or good religion.

You got my answer.

And you are not a good person.

The two facts by themselves should tell you that your theory stinks.

Oh, I see, you have concluded, without knowing anything about me, that I'm not a good person, simply because I understand religious ideologies are dangerous and that the religion you follow is one of the most dangerous, even though I acknowledged you as a good person.

Do you see who is the intolerant one here?

Men like you, with their twisted ideas of righteousness are more dangerous to secularism than any religion could ever be.

Who said anything about righteousness? You're afraid of men like me who would see the end of religious ideologies as the beginning of mankinds future. Your religion would have us all enslaved, yet you find that a good thing. That is what is truly twisted.

 

[S.A.M.]

You got my answer.

So your intolerance of people is based on the fact that they are religious?

And this is your idea of tolerance?

Oh, I see, you have concluded, without knowing anything about me, that I'm not a good person, simply because I understand religious ideologies are dangerous and that the religion you follow is one of the most dangerous, even though I acknowledged you as a good person.

Do you see who is the intolerant one here?

No I concluded it from the posts you make where you jeer and mock people for their ideas and thoughts, when they differ from yours, from the fact that you think being rude and offensive makes you superior. I also drew this conclusion from the fact that you never allow anyone the freedom to have a thought or idea that differs from your own, or take the time to hear them out or offer evidence in support of what you believe without being sarcastic or patronising; that you automatically assume all people with different ideas to be either stupid or delusional, in other words "inferior" to you.

And if I was truly intolerant, I would not waste my time explaining my points of view or attempting to understand yours.

Who said anything about righteousness? You're afraid of men like me who would see the end of religious ideologies as the beginning of mankinds future. Your religion would have us all enslaved, yet you find that a good thing. That is what is truly twisted.

You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with religion. I meant righteousness because you carry over this mentality into every other sub-forum, regarding your views of science, philosophy, religion and your opinion of everything under the sun as the ultimate authority.

And the very fact that you discriminate against a majority of the world and see them as obstacles to your view of perfect society makes every word you say about intolerance the biggest joke there is.

And you are deliberately twisting my words.

I choose to follow my religion and when I express my views on my religion, it is not to justify why I follow it, but to clarify what I know about it. I need no one's permission to follow what I choose nor do I seek to force my religious affiliations down anyone else's throat.

I find this fear of enslavement completely ridiculous. Can someone force you to believe something you do not? So why fear it?

 

[(Q)]

So your intolerance of people is based on the fact that they are religious?

And this is your idea of tolerance?

Again, you're not getting it. I am not intolerant of people, sam. Why do you keep saying that?

No I concluded it from the posts you make where you jeer and mock people for their ideas and thoughts, when they differ from yours, from the fact that you think being rude and offensive makes you superior. I also drew this conclusion from the fact that you never allow anyone the freedom to have a thought or idea that differs from your own, or take the time to hear them out or offer evidence in support of what you believe without being sarcastic or patronising; that you automatically assume all people with different ideas to be either stupid or delusional, in other words "inferior" to you.

Then, you clearly do not read posts. And you also don't understand that religious ideologies have no new ideas. Peoples thoughts on religion are not new and are merely derived from their own imaginations. That shows only too well that religions themselves are manmade and have nothing to do with gods.

And if I was truly intolerant, I would not waste my time explaining my points of view or attempting to understand yours.

But you are intolerant, your religious ideology demands it. It shows every single time someone criticizes your religion, as does it show everytime Muslims hit the streets burning effigies when Islam is criticized.

You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with religion. I meant righteousness because you carry over this mentality into every other sub-forum, regarding your views of science, philosophy, religion and your opinion of everything under the sun as the ultimate authority.

That's quite impossible, only theists have obsessions with religions. Is it unhealthy to rid the world of fantasy based ideologies? Really, sam, that's quite an extraordinary claim.

And the very fact that you discriminate against a majority of the world and see them as obstacles to your view of perfect society makes every word you say about intolerance the biggest joke there is.

There you go again, you just don't seem to get it. I don't discriminate against people, sam, that is your delusion.

And you are deliberately twisting my words.

Yeah, said the pot to the kettle.

I choose to follow my religion and when I express my views on my religion, it is not to justify why I follow it, but to clarify what I know about it. I need no one's permission to follow what I choose nor do I seek to force my religious affiliations down anyone else's throat.

You can't clarify a fantasy, sam. All you've done is expressed your own views on what you extracted from your religion and made it your own. The rest is propaganda.

I find this fear of enslavement completely ridiculous. Can someone force you to believe something you do not? So why fear it?

You're indoctrinated, sam, that is how you were forced to believe. You're religion and those who indoctrinated you have enslaved you. It's not surprising you find it ridiculous.

 

[Fire]

I find this fear of enslavement completely ridiculous. Can someone force you to believe something you do not? So why fear it?

Is that not why religious belief depends on your geography, sam? Does it not depend on the religion of your parents or that of what is forced down your throat at your school all through your childhood?

If religious belief is not something that is forced, then most children should grow into adulthood and say that they were never subjected to religious indoctrination in childhood. Even in secular countries, the majority of citizens can not make this claim.

 

[S.A.M.]

Again, you're not getting it, blah blah blah

Amazing.

 

[S.A.M.]

Is that not why religious belief depends on your geography, sam? Does it not depend on the religion of your parents or that of what is forced down your throat at your school all through your childhood?

If religious belief is not something that is forced, then most children should grow into adulthood and say that they were never subjected to religious indoctrination in childhood. Even in secular countries, the majority of citizens can not make this claim.

So does your language, culture, values, food habits, yada yada.

However, everyone eventually grows up and reaches adulthood. And the world is a very big place.

If you don't like what you got, go ahead, change it.