Sad milestone, American victims of Islamic terrorists reach 3,000!

[Buffalo Roam]

Sam, it is great how you show your ability to think like a terrorist, and your Moslem to, a coincidence, or is that the product of reading the Koran? and following Mohamed?, You definitely do defend the terrorist don't you.

 

[Mr.Spock]

Unless I'm mistaken, Iraq is mostly Muslim. More BS rhetoric.

the muslims who blow up other muslim consider them infidels, and you know it!
if i was an american i wouldnt want you in my country thats for sure. you bash american soldiers who died in iraq, you bash the war on terror and you take only one side and thats the muslim side every single time. just like ini srael your kind are screaming you are never right you are only wrong, same here inly change israel for america. im glad no body here is falling for your crap.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

spidergoat, surprisingly they don't, the fight in Islam is over who has the right interpretation of the Koran, much as the Christians did in the Dark Ages, the difference is that the Christians learned from their foolishness, the Moslems don't seem to have that capability.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam, it is great how you show your ability to think like a terrorist, and your Moslem to, a coincidence, or is that the product of reading the Koran? and following Mohamed?, You definitely do defend the terrorist don't you.

More personal attacks? So you don't see the resemblance between your rhetoric and OBLs?

You can only claim I defend the terrorists if you also claim I defend you. As I have pointed, both of you are using the same excuses and refusing to take responsibility for the death of innocents, whether they be women, children or US soldiers. All are cannon fodder to your foolish games of power.

 

[spidergoat]

Sam, it is great how you show your ability to think like a terrorist, and your Moslem to, a coincidence, or is that the product of reading the Koran? and following Mohamed?, You definitely do defend the terrorist don't you.

What the hell does that mean?

 

[Tazmaniac]

Unless I'm mistaken, Iraq is mostly Muslim. More BS rhetoric.

Are you denying that there's inner fascism between Sunni - Shiite Muslims on on another that sees each other "not the right Muslim"?
So is Sudan. (African Sufi victims of Arab Sunni).

 

[S.A.M.]

Are you denying that there's inner fascism between Sunni - Shiite Muslims on on another that sees each other "not the right Muslim"?
So is Sudan. (African Sufi victims of Arab Sunni).

Hello Kiwi.

We had this discussion already when you were "To Post it Up". Look it up if you have Amnesia as well.

 

[spidergoat]

spidergoat, surprisingly they don't, the fight in Islam is over who has the right interpretation of the Koran, much as the Christians did in the Dark Ages, the difference is that the Christians learned from their foolishness, the Moslems don't seem to have that capability.

There is no real fight in Islam over correct interpretation. The fight in Iraq is about which religious and ethnic group is in power.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Which involves the interpretation of the Koran, Sunni, Shai', Bahai, Suffie, they all are killing each other over there quest for power, and the ability to impose their belief on everyone else, the only one's to seem to have made peace with the rest of the world are the Bahai'.

 

[Mr.Spock]

More personal attacks? So you don't see the resemblance between your rhetoric and OBLs?

You can only claim I defend the terrorists if you also claim I defend you. As I have pointed, both of you are using the same excuses and refusing to take responsibility for the death of innocents, whether they be women, children or US soldiers. All are cannon fodder to your foolish games of power.

in case you havent noticed america was attacked by muslims(more then once). the backward muslim world, which you so proudly represent , declared war on the west. the us retaliated as it should. this isnt a game of power, this is a war against people who act on religious belief and they think they are winning. they shouldnt be allowed to win and must be stopped. if you only criticized america by what its does, ok, but you criticize the its reason, and distorting it because you probably identify with your muslim brothers. your kind is not less dangerous then the terrorists abroad. you make it look like you dont support terrorists, and use it to criticize the war in iraq for instance. maybe the us government made a mistake by attacking iraq, but they did the right thing by protecting themselves from muslims. the real problem is iran and its allies like n.korea, hezbullah and hamas. thats the enemy.

 

[spidergoat]

I recall Americans did quite a bit of killing each other over ideological differences.

 

[Mr.Spock]

I recall Americans did quite a bit of killing each other over ideological differences.

very informative data.

 

[S.A.M.]

Which involves the interpretation of the Koran, Sunni, Shai', Bahai, Suffie, they all are killing each other over there quest for power, and the ability to impose their belief on everyone else, the only one's to seem to have made peace with the rest of the world are the Bahai'.

Shows how much you know about the religion. The different sects in Islam are politically divided. There are no differences between the Sunni and Shia in interpretation of Quran, only in political hierarchy. The differences are within the Sunnis and Shias and can overlap both sects. These differences are not a matter of contention however and any Muslim can switch between any sects of Islam without any problem whatsoever.

But I'd not expect any better from you. Your knowledge of other cultures /religions speaks for itself.

Comparison chart:
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islamic_sects.htm

 

[Mr.Spock]

Shows how much you know about the religion. The different sects in Islam are politically divided. There are no differences between the Sunni and Shia in interpretation of Quran, only in political hierarchy. The differences are within the Sunnis and Shias and can overlap both sects. These differences are not a matter of contention however and any Muslim can switch between any sects of Islam without any problem whatsoever.

But I'd not expect any better from you. Your knowledge of other cultures /religions speaks for itself.

Comparison chart:
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islamic_sects.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Shia-Sunni_relations

i guess wikipedia is lying about this then....

 

[S.A.M.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Shia-Sunni_relations

i guess wikipedia is lying about this then....

Can you show me where it says they follow different interpretations of the Quran?

 

[Mr.Spock]

Can you show me where it says they follow different interpretations of the Quran?

Shia and Sunni are the two major branches of Islam (see Historic background of the Sunni-Shi'a split for their origins). There are differences both in beliefs and practices.

The Umayyads were overthrown in 750 by a new dynasty, the Abbasids. The first Abbasid caliph, As-Saffah recruited Shiite support in his campaign against the Umayyads by emphasizing his blood relationship to the Prophet's household through descent from his uncle, Abbas ibn Abd al-Muttalib. The Shia also believe that he promised them that the Caliphate, or at least religious authority, would be vested in the Shiite Imam. As-Saffah assumed both the temporal and religious mantle of Caliph himself. He continued the Umayyad dynastic practice of succession, and his brother al-Mansur succeeded him in 754. The sixth Shi'a Imam died during al-Mansur's reign, and there were claims that he was murdered on the orders of the caliph.[1].

Soon, Shias claim, intolerance reached such high levels that even the founder of a Sunni school of law, Abu Hanifah, was imprisoned by al-Mansur and tortured. He also had Ibn Hanbal, the founder of another school of law, flogged. [2]

Shia sources further claim that by the orders of the tenth Abassid caliph, al-Mutawakkil, the tomb of the third Shia Imam Husayn ibn Ali in Karbala was completely demolished [3], and Shias were sometimes beheaded in groups, buried alive, or even placed alive within the walls of government buildings still under construction.[4]

The Shia believe that they thus continued to live for the most part in hiding and followed their religious life secretly without external manifestations. [5]

[edit] Fatwas

Main article: Sunni fatwas on Shi'as

Some Sunni scholars, mainly from the Salafi sect of Sunni Islam, have been known for producing Fatwas, legal edicts of Takfir or labelling other Muslims as infidels, on Shi'a with some even promoting and legalising their murder.

and sam said:
These differences are not a matter of contention however and any Muslim can switch between any sects of Islam without any problem whatsoever.

 

[S.A.M.]

and sam said:
These differences are not a matter of contention however and any Muslim can switch between any sects of Islam without any problem whatsoever.

A fatwa is a legal opinion. Legal opinions are optional. And they do not apply universally to all Muslims.

So yes, they can switch between sects, by ignoring the fatwas.

 

[Mr.Spock]

A fatwa is a legal opinion. Legal opinions are optional. And they do not apply universally to all Muslims.

So yes, they can switch between sects, by ignoring the fatwas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_fatwas_on_Shi%27as

like this:

Sunni fatwas on Shi'as show the how the Sunni view of Shi'a is documented in legal rulings.

The renowned al-Azhar Theological school in Egypt, one of the main centers of Sunni scholarship in the world hade a ten year long exchange with a Shia scholar. After a long period of discussions, they announced the following on July 6, 1959:

"The Shi'a is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought."

Today, both Shi'a and Sunni students graduate and study at the Al-Azhar university.

This statement have been received with a variaty of responsed, most hostile being the ones from the Salafis.

1. Ibn Hazm — "Shia are not even Muslims", when christians debating him brought a Shia book as reference. See: al-Millal wa al-Nahl الفصل في الملل والنحل 2/213
2. Ibn Taymiya
3. Ibn Khaldoun — "astray people", "shia are the source of all deviant groups in Islam history".
4. Nizam al-Mulk in his Siyasatnama, chap 41, where he fully attacks The Rafidhun.

Interestingly, the latter author was assassinated when he converted to Shi'ism after a Sunni-Shi'a debate held by the orders of Malek-Shah, who also followed the same fate. (source: see Mughatil ibn Bakri)

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Sam,

More personal attacks? So you don't see the resemblance between your rhetoric and OBLs?

If anyone's rhetoric come's from OBL's perspective it is yours, all you have to do is read your post, and what is your reading level the Wiki article seem plain enough.

 

[S.A.M.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_fatwas_on_Shi%27as

like this:

Sunni fatwas on Shi'as show the how the Sunni view of Shi'a is documented in legal rulings.

The renowned al-Azhar Theological school in Egypt, one of the main centers of Sunni scholarship in the world hade a ten year long exchange with a Shia scholar. After a long period of discussions, they announced the following on July 6, 1959:

"The Shi'a is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought."

Today, both Shi'a and Sunni students graduate and study at the Al-Azhar university.

This statement have been received with a variaty of responsed, most hostile being the ones from the Salafis.

1. Ibn Hazm — "Shia are not even Muslims", when christians debating him brought a Shia book as reference. See: al-Millal wa al-Nahl الفصل في الملل والنحل 2/213
2. Ibn Taymiya
3. Ibn Khaldoun — "astray people", "shia are the source of all deviant groups in Islam history".
4. Nizam al-Mulk in his Siyasatnama, chap 41, where he fully attacks The Rafidhun.

Interestingly, the latter author was assassinated when he converted to Shi'ism after a Sunni-Shi'a debate held by the orders of Malek-Shah, who also followed the same fate. (source: see Mughatil ibn Bakri)

You're confusing religion with politics and religious practice with religious belief.

To be a Muslim, all you need is to believe in Allah and Mohammed and all the Holy books and Prophets.

The Sunni Shia schism in the ME is political just as it is in Iraq. It does not exist outside the ME.

Here is a question answered by an Islamic scholar on a Sunni Shia marriage.

Shia and Sunni are both Muslims and therefore from a purely religious point of view there is absolutely no problem for them to be married. The answer, however, might be totally different when it comes to cultural or relationship point of view. For many it is difficult enough to accept that their spouse has different opinion, let alone having a fundamentally different understanding of religion. Problems may arise when it comes to religious ceremonies and practices, relationships with members of the different religious community, raising kids, etc... The other difficulty is that not only do the two persons need to be open-minded and be tolerant enough to accept their differences, they also need to be brave and strong against possible reactions from the members of the two communities who may have extreme sectarian feelings and beliefs. Your parent's belief that the marriage is void is only an example.

I have never understood the meaning of expressions like "is it necessary for him/her to convert to ..." Either a person realises that a belief is true and he/she naturally accepts it or a person does not realise it and therefore does not accept it. There is no value in accepting something that one is not firmly convinced of. If the lady you are referring to is so casual about her faith that she is happy to give it up for the sake of marriage then perhaps the whole issue of two different beliefs is not as serious as it sounds. Note that even if the girl converts to what you call 'Sunni' it does not clear up the potential problem. She still has relatives and a community who she cannot disassociate herself from and her conversion may bring even more problems to both of you.

So to make it brief, from the Islamic perspective there is nothing wrong with marriage between a Shia Muslim and a Sunni Muslim. However, there are certain - often wrong - social and cultural issues that should be carefully thought of and be prepared for, before such marriages take place.

There are different sub-sects among these two main sects of Muslims. However the major differences between typical Shia Muslims and Mainstream Muslims are as follows:

*While mainstream Muslims believe that after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) the door for any new divine guidance has been closed for ever, Shia Muslims believe that divine guidance continued after the Prophet by 12 divinely appointed Imams who were infallible (like the Prophet) and had advantage of accessing unseen knowledge where necessary.

*Shia Muslims believe that the position of Imamah is higher than the position of Prophethood and therefore Imams have a higher position than ordinary Prophets. They believe Prophet Muhammad was himself an Imam so his position was higher, as for prophets like Ibrahim, Musa and Isa (pbut), they have differences of opinion but the prominent view is that their position is lower than the position of Shia Imams.

*Following from the above, while mainstream Muslims believe that the appointment of Khalifa should be by Shura (consultation) after the demise of the Prophet (pbuh), Shia Muslims believe that Ali (ra) was the divinely appointed Imam after the Prophet (pbuh) and that those who took his place have intentionally suppressed him and Ahl Albayt of the Prophet by not letting them have their right and that most of the rest of the companions did not remain loyal to the directives of the Prophet (pbuh) in that they did not support Ali (ra) to become the first Khalifa.

*Following from the first point, Shia Muslims believe that the last Imam was the Mahdi that was predicted by the Prophet (pbuh), that he was born in 255 A.H and went into occultation later and he is still alive and will return before the day of judgement to bring justice on the face of Earth.

*Following from the first point, Shia Muslims do not rely on Ahadith that reached us through the companions of the Prophet (pbuh), instead they mostly rely on sayings of their Imams (mostly the 6th Imam, Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq who is also very much respected by the mainstream scholars) that have reached them through the companions of Imams.

All the above leads to some differences in religious practices among Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims. While the main practices like prayer, Zakah, fasting and Hajj are in principal the same, there is a strong emphasis on Tawassul (seeking intercession) of Imams and calling them, visiting Imam's shrines, loving them as a means to salvation, grieving for Imams and reading prayers that are narrated from their Imams.

If anyone's rhetoric come's from OBL's perspective it is yours, all you have to do is read your post, and what is your reading level the Wiki article seem plain enough.

Really?
http://islam.about.com/cs/divisions/f/shia_sunni.htm

It is important to remember that despite all of these differences in opinion and practice, Shia and Sunni Muslims share the main articles of Islamic belief and are considered by most to be brethren in faith. In fact, most Muslims do not distinguish themselves by claiming membership in any particular group, but prefer to call themselves simply, "Muslims."