Restaurant rescinds prayer discount

Sylvester said:
You can find exceptions to every rule. You are saying that atheists are not sure, not certain. So there could be?

Just out of curiosity, would an entity that can communicate telepathically, travel through space and (possibly) time be considered a god and\or godlike?



Come on now...:p
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The vast majority of atheists would be open to new data regarding the existence of a God. Even Richard Dawkins says that he can't be 100% certain there isn't some kind of God existing somewhere. It's just that there is no evidence for one.

No, an entity that can communicate telepathically and travel through space and time is not a God, just a life form that happens to be gifted or technologically advanced.
 
spidergoat said:
The vast majority of atheists would be open to new data regarding the existence of a God. Even Richard Dawkins says that he can't be 100% certain there isn't some kind of God existing somewhere. It's just that there is no evidence for one.
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If Dawkins is not certain then how is he an atheist? Should the atheist be certain that life was created solely by biological methods over long periods of time? When I mean certain I mean certain in that belief.

spidergoat said:
No, an entity that can communicate telepathically and travel through space and time is not a God, just a life form that happens to be gifted or technologically advanced.
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That can be true. Those are godlike qualities though.
 
Sylvester said:
If Dawkins is not certain then how is he an atheist? Should the atheist be certain that life was created solely by biological methods over long periods of time? When I mean certain I mean certain in that belief.
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You don't know what atheism is. If you don't believe in God, you are an atheist. It doesn't matter if you think a God is possible.

Also, it doesn't matter what one's views are on the origin of life, as long as it doesn't involve God.
 
billvon said:
They are parallel. In both cases, you have to say something to get a discount. You do not have to SAY you are a pirate or a christian, you have to speak/pray like you are. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to. If you don't want to eat there, you don't have to.

It sounds like your argument is that "I am annoyed by one and not the other, therefore they are different."
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I was not responding to Kitta about pirates. Why are you desperately trying to support the unfair discrimination of those arrogant jerks?
 
billvon said:
Wherever you like. If you are so intolerant you cannot abide any restaurant that does not hew to your beliefs, then you might have to eat at home. (o the horror) Fortunately most people are a little more open minded than you are. This is a good thing; that way we have ladies nights, talk-like-a-pirate discounts, wear-your-jersey days etc. Again, feel free to stay home if such things offend your beliefs.
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It is the restaurant management that is being intolerant & not open minded.
 
Kittamaru said:
The honest truth about the USA is that EVERYBODY is discriminated against for SOMETHING:

Too Rich
Too Poor
Too Fat
Too Muscular
Too Skinny
Too Tall
Too Short
Too White
Too Black
Too Asian
Different mannerisms
Different religion
Different hair style
Different clothing preference
Different culture
Different food tastes
Different car
Has Kids
Does not have kids
Etc...

My wife actually was approached by an elderly person at work the other day, someone who has talked to her now and again quite often... they asked her if we had any kids yet. We don't, and she told them as such... to which they responded "Well, whats the point in getting married if you aren't going to have kids?"

WTF?
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And all the fights for human rights & fair equal treatment are battles in the same war. Why can't we all just get along.

I wonder if that person got divorced once they couldn't have any more kids.
 
iceaura said:
Atheists don't have to lie to pray - they just have to get their ducks in a row re humility and such.
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Such great commentary until the last sentence. Praying requires something to pray to or at least, the belief there is something to pray to. Whether it be Yahweh, Allah, Odin, Zeus, The Great Spirit, Cthulhu, Xenu or whatever. I don't like my ducks to fight.
 
StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
I was not responding to Kitta about pirates. Why are you desperately trying to support the unfair discrimination of those arrogant jerks?
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Because even arrogant jerks should have the freedom to run their businesses as they see fit.

You will lose any right you are not willing to protect for other people.
It is the restaurant management that is being intolerant & not open minded.
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I agree. They have the right to do that. You have the right to not go there. Exercise it.
 
billvon said:
Because even arrogant jerks should have the freedom to run their businesses as they see fit.
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Why? Why is discrimination on the basis of religious belief such an important pillar of freedom for you? What ideal outweighs the obvious, apparent, and historical problems this kind of business practice inevitably creates?

And anyway, it's illegal. You seem to be ignoring that, but it's true.
 
Balerion said:
Why? Why is discrimination on the basis of religious belief such an important pillar of freedom for you? What ideal outweighs the obvious, apparent, and historical problems this kind of business practice inevitably creates?

And anyway, it's illegal. You seem to be ignoring that, but it's true.
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The point is, it shouldn't be illegal; what SHOULD happen is that, if the public thinks it is a problem, they should show it with their wallet. After all, it is a business - with no customers coming in due to their policies, either they will go out of business or they will change their policies.

Then again, I also don't think warning labels should be required for such things as "Do not use the hairdryer whilst in the shower", "Do not use the curling iron while sleeping", and "Do not change the fanbelt while the engine is running"... if people are THAT stupid... well, let them take themselves out of the gene pool...
 
Kittamaru said:
The point is, it shouldn't be illegal; what SHOULD happen is that, if the public thinks it is a problem, they should show it with their wallet. After all, it is a business - with no customers coming in due to their policies, either they will go out of business or they will change their policies.
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We already know that doesn't work. That's why we have Civil Rights laws in the first place.

And let me pose my question to bil to you as well: Why? Why is it so important that this be allowed?

Then again, I also don't think warning labels should be required for such things as "Do not use the hairdryer whilst in the shower", "Do not use the curling iron while sleeping", and "Do not change the fanbelt while the engine is running"... if people are THAT stupid... well, let them take themselves out of the gene pool...
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So people are stupid for agreeing with Civil Rights laws?

What an ugly, crude thing to say.
 
Balerion said:
Why? Why is discrimination on the basis of religious belief such an important pillar of freedom for you?
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It's not. It's just one of the many rights I would want non-bigots to have, so it has to be defended for bigots as well.

Take the Westboro Baptists. If there is a worse bunch of homophobic bigots out there I haven't seen them. I don't defend their right to free speech because I think that homophobia is a "pillar of freedom" - I defend their right to free speech because I think it's an important right for everyone, whether I agree with them or not.

Likewise, I don't think the freedom for religious bigots to give discounts to praying people is important. I think the right of ANYONE to run their business how they see fit is important.

Let's take another case. Let's say you run a restaurant and have a blood drive, and offer free desserts to anyone who donates. Should you be arrested for doing so, because Christian scientists might not be able to get a free dessert?

And anyway, it's illegal. You seem to be ignoring that, but it's true.
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It is illegal to discriminate based on religion. It is not illegal to offer a discount to someone who says something.
 
Balerion said:
We already know that doesn't work. That's why we have Civil Rights laws in the first place.

And let me pose my question to bil to you as well: Why? Why is it so important that this be allowed?



So people are stupid for agreeing with Civil Rights laws?

What an ugly, crude thing to say.
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How horribly typical of you... twisting of what was said to try and turn an argument back against the person...

No, simply put - evolution was doing a fine enough job... then we had to go and ensure even the dumbest and most worthless among us are capable of procreating multiple times, ensuring those genes are passed on, when they should not have been. It is no small wonder that our world is so screwed up...

But, then again, I guess "protecting people from their own stupidity" (warning labels) and "protecting people from those who would do them harm because they are different" (civil rights laws) are just so incredibly similar...
 
Kittamaru said:
How horribly typical of you... twisting of what was said to try and turn an argument back against the person...

No, simply put - evolution was doing a fine enough job... then we had to go and ensure even the dumbest and most worthless among us are capable of procreating multiple times, ensuring those genes are passed on, when they should not have been. It is no small wonder that our world is so screwed up...

But, then again, I guess "protecting people from their own stupidity" (warning labels) and "protecting people from those who would do them harm because they are different" (civil rights laws) are just so incredibly similar...
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This appears to be a subject you haven't given enough thought to. Comparing the oppressed to people who don't know enough not to use the hairdryer in the shower is about as insulting as it gets.

Let's remember, you're the one who raised the analogy of warning labels. If you aren't comfortable with the natural conclusions which can be drawn from it, then why did you bring it up? Oh, right--you didn't think it through.

And don't think I haven't noticed you ignored the question I posed to you. Care to have a crack at it, or are you and your buddy from earlier starting a club?
 
billvon said:
It's not. It's just one of the many rights I would want non-bigots to have, so it has to be defended for bigots as well.
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So you want non-bigots to have the right to discriminate against others because of their religion?

Take the Westboro Baptists. If there is a worse bunch of homophobic bigots out there I haven't seen them. I don't defend their right to free speech because I think that homophobia is a "pillar of freedom" - I defend their right to free speech because I think it's an important right for everyone, whether I agree with them or not.
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This isn't a freedom of speech issue. This is a civil rights issue. Maybe that's where you're confused?

]quote]Likewise, I don't think the freedom for religious bigots to give discounts to praying people is important. I think the right of ANYONE to run their business how they see fit is important.[/quote]

I understand that. What I need to know is why. And what's the limit?

Let's take another case. Let's say you run a restaurant and have a blood drive, and offer free desserts to anyone who donates. Should you be arrested for doing so, because Christian scientists might not be able to get a free dessert?
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1. No one was arrested, and threat of arrest is not on the table. (I have to wonder why arguments against these laws rely on exaggeration)

2. The free dessert is being offered without reference to religious practice. The diner discount was given for praying in public. Apples and oranges.

It is illegal to discriminate based on religion. It is not illegal to offer a discount to someone who says something.
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Yes it is, when that "something" is a prayer. The act of discounting for prayer is discrimination for not praying.
 
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