Enmos
Valued Senior Member
You are missing the point. If God is omniscient, free will doesn't exist. And so no one has got any choice about anything.
Reporting on Gods Visit
- Thread starter (Q)
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You are missing the point. If God is omniscient, free will doesn't exist. And so no one has got any choice about anything.
enmos,
what are you worried about? do you know the future? do you think that god picks and chooses destinies arbitrarily? do you think that what you want doesn't matter? do you not trust god to do the right thing? do you think he's evil and has us caught up in some inescapable nightmare?
everything i've asked you here is contrary to everything i've learned from god.
what can you trust in this life right now enmos?
the answer is...your intentions.
what are you worried about? do you know the future? do you think that god picks and chooses destinies arbitrarily? do you think that what you want doesn't matter? do you not trust god to do the right thing? do you think he's evil and has us caught up in some inescapable nightmare?
everything i've asked you here is contrary to everything i've learned from god.
what can you trust in this life right now enmos?
the answer is...your intentions.
That's already been done to death, Lori. The praying and asking are a foregone conclusion.
It is YOUR request to god that is all that is important at this time, as it serves to demonstrate whether or not you really are talking to a god.
And you have recognized god? Please do tell.
Maybe you're just making up stuff as you go along?
Science believes in miracles too .....
Oh yes, sure it does...
*backs away slowly not making eye contact*
Yes, gods lack of "existence" seems to increase as myths and superstitions are better understood. Amazing...
I have only one problem : if God created me then who created this God ?.
A giant turtle, of course.
Or precisely a giant ( Q )....nevertheless.......
It's turtles all the way down, Mike.
”
Maybe He is working on you now through Lori.
Maybe He is working on you now through Me.
Maybe He is working on me and Lori through each other. You could be a non-benefiting tool in this whole thing.
Now i do not know who is being worked upon here. If someone is being worked on, and if they are willing to be worked on, then they will benefit from the work, Even if the work initially causes them some disturbance.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
I did love others, but it was more like the love of the world. Ie love those who love you. or love those who are not enemies to you. When i read the words of Jesus i saw a greater, higher love, something more noble, Something wonderful, Something i admired that was above what human beings where like. I wanted to be like that, i wanted to love like that.
But i still recognised within me the defective human qualities mentioned before that get in my way of being loving in the Way that Jesus showed.
”
Of course i want others to know the love and give the love and find the incredible peace of mind that comes from that love.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
With respect but being frank, I must contend that theists are the most selfish of all people and haven't got a clue what "love" actually is.
Once upon a time, (perhaps), you watched your wife give birth to your child. In that moment you swore an oath to yourself that you would protect it, you would nurture it, you would save it from any harm possible and so on. Should someone point a gun at this person, you would happily jump in front of the bullet.
Seems very non-selfish to me.
But then.. seemingly, as a christian, you would abandon them completely the minute you're in heaven should they go to hell. Your own child that you swore to protect and 'love' and you couldn't care less. Or, you do care and heaven is a nightmare.
Perhaps, like many top christian apologists, you'd assert that you're having too much fun to notice or you just don't remember them. If you're ok with this, again I must call your version of 'love' into question. Would I ever want to be in a place where my children were suffering and I was oblivious to that fact? No. Would you? Would I want to be in a place where I do not remember those that I love? No. Would you?
Now, I know that you might raise issue with my statements and questions. You might submit that my statements are in fact fallacies, (wants do not imply truths), and taken out of context you'd actually be right. In this context however, it's of the most worth. You see, if you wouldn't actually want to be in such heaven, how would you ever get there without espousing that such god forces it upon you - something you'd be unwilling to claim?
The only response left to you is that everyone goes to heaven - which has the rather unwanted side effect of reducing a god to meaninglessness. We all go to heaven, who gives a damn about worshipping god?
So, you either show yourself to be a 'true christian', who would defecate on his own children if it meant he'd be saved, or heaven becomes valueless. You either honestly 'love', or you wouldn't know what it really meant should it get up and slap you around the head. Make the choice.
Maybe he does, You have stated your disgust in this thread at human nature. Look back at what you said about humans.
I would agree that it is a motivator to unbelievers to seriously investigate the possibility of God. But from what i have observed in this world. It is not the clincher that causes one to believe in and trust in God and it is not the chains that causes one to remain in belief. I did not come to God through fear of the fire i came to Him through the love of the truth.
Predetermined No. Pre-known Yes. God knows from His foreknowledge of all History where our eternal destinies lay. But you and me and Lori and Q and the rest Do Not. Therefore the game is still on for us. It is still being played out.
As for desires. Does a toddler yearn to eat a banana before they have had their first taste of a banana?
Once a child has a taste of banana then the desire for banana is within them.
Just like the desire for food, desires can be born when one is exposed to knowledge they have never thought of before.
Romans 10
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Of course they do, I take it you don't have children?
My kids are the first to desire things before they've ever had them. My child desired a skateboard before ever skating. My daughter desired bubblegum before ever having bubblegum and so on.
Kindly attempt your point again but without that mistake.
Everyone should choose truth over their child. If your child was a serial rapist, would you hand them over to the cops? Or would you pretend nothing was going on? You don't need to abandon the good people for heaven[they should make it on their own steam], only the ones who don't make the grade. You always hope they will change, but that does not mean you'll accept it when they are wrong
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So here we come to peoples intentions.What was your intention Q in joining in this exercise?
Was it done with a desire to try to place doubt in the mind of Lori by saying.
"Hey YOUR prayer did not work. God did not come to me. If God exists and if He listens to you and answers your prayers, then this test would have succeded. Since God did not come to me Lori then God does not exist and you do not talk to him"
Now we get back to the question i put forward to Lori before.
Can our desire and our relationship with God overcome the the desire of the other in relation to God?
Now if the desire of the other all this time has been to disprove God and to destroy the faith of another in God. What would be the will of God in this process?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days