Reporting on Gods Visit

[SnakeLord]

Everyone should choose truth over their child.

The 'truth' is that I love my child more than anything.

Does it even make logical sense to say that I should choose the truth that I love my child over the fact that I love my child? I'm unsure what you're getting at.

Anyway, because you made the assertion. Why should I?

If your child was a serial rapist, would you hand them over to the cops? Or would you pretend nothing was going on?

It's an interesting question in that people that become serial rapists/killers etc typically have some serious underlying problems. Who are we really blaming? Sure, we put them in prison but it's not because of them, it's because we're trying to protect everyone else from their illness.

Of course you said 'serial' which - to me at least - certainly implies a serious underlying issue that isn't their fault. Having said that, although I deal with people that have such problems, I could be completely wrong and they could just be doing it because there's nothing better to do on Sundays. If you've seen English TV on Sundays you might just concur.

Ultimately I wouldn't, (and I doubt any loving parent would), be 'turning them in' because I thought they deserved punishment, but because they needed help, (the fact that we can't help to any great degree is beyond the point).

Unfortunately your question doesn't provide enough detail. For what reason am I phoning the police? To make them suffer or to prevent everyone from suffering, (hopefully including themselves)?

You don't need to abandon the good people for heaven, only the ones who don't make the grade.

Let it be said that "the grade", (as most christians seemingly perceive it), includes those that simply failed to have a belief in said entity. In either case, that is not a statement of 'love', it's a statement from the man that couldn't be bothered ensuring his loved one got the needed help.

That you'd abandon anyone actually sickens me. You have my oath that should I find myself in heaven and you find yourself in hell - should I have the ability, I will take the time out to rescue you from your suffering. I don't particularly like you very much but I'd still do it. You on the other hand would apparently abandon your own mother. I think that says it all.

You always hope they will change, but that does not mean you'll accept it when they are wrong

And - unless magic brain changing is the method in heaven, it will always bother you. What then is heaven?

 

[Adstar]

With respect but being frank, I must contend that theists are the most selfish of all people and haven't got a clue what "love" actually is.

Once upon a time, (perhaps), you watched your wife give birth to your child. In that moment you swore an oath to yourself that you would protect it, you would nurture it, you would save it from any harm possible and so on. Should someone point a gun at this person, you would happily jump in front of the bullet.

Seems very non-selfish to me.

But then.. seemingly, as a christian, you would abandon them completely the minute you're in heaven should they go to hell. Your own child that you swore to protect and 'love' and you couldn't care less. Or, you do care and heaven is a nightmare.

Perhaps, like many top christian apologists, you'd assert that you're having too much fun to notice or you just don't remember them. If you're ok with this, again I must call your version of 'love' into question. Would I ever want to be in a place where my children were suffering and I was oblivious to that fact? No. Would you? Would I want to be in a place where I do not remember those that I love? No. Would you?

Now, I know that you might raise issue with my statements and questions. You might submit that my statements are in fact fallacies, (wants do not imply truths), and taken out of context you'd actually be right. In this context however, it's of the most worth. You see, if you wouldn't actually want to be in such heaven, how would you ever get there without espousing that such god forces it upon you - something you'd be unwilling to claim?

The only response left to you is that everyone goes to heaven - which has the rather unwanted side effect of reducing a god to meaninglessness. We all go to heaven, who gives a damn about worshipping god?

So, you either show yourself to be a 'true christian', who would defecate on his own children if it meant he'd be saved, or heaven becomes valueless. You either honestly 'love', or you wouldn't know what it really meant should it get up and slap you around the head. Make the choice.

My words have shaken you, haven’t they.

Such an emotional response. An emotional rant.

All those related to me be they mother father brother sister cousin or the entire human race for that matter. Each one is responsible for their response to the Word of God.

Now i have been brought to tears on occasions for people in this very forum because i have come to love them and hope for them as they went down the path of seeking with me. And i have seen them turn away from the love of the truth and it has cut me to my very core.

But i know in eternity Jesus will wipe away every tear and there will be no more suffering for those who loved the truth. My Hope is with the Messiah Jesus.

Each individual must stand before God and answer to their repose to His will. I will, Lori will, Enmos will, Q will and You will Snakelord. I say in faith, His Will Be Done. I trust in His will for it is perfect.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[earth]

According to religious faith are people condemned because of a lack of belief? Is it belief that’s saving or condemning?

 

[SnakeLord]

My words have shaken you, haven’t they.

1. Not at all
2. Fallacy - you're concentrating on the person, not the argument.

All those related to me be they mother father brother sister cousin or the entire human race for that matter. Each one is responsible for their response to the Word of God

Fallacy. I have not contended otherwise.

But i know in eternity Jesus will wipe away every tear and there will be no more suffering for those who loved the truth. My Hope is with the Messiah Jesus.

Again this is a fallacy - it's entirely beyond the argument.

I will, Lori will, Enmos will, Q will and You will Snakelord. I say in faith, His Will Be Done. I trust in His will for it is perfect.

1. Fallacy - it's inconsequential to my argument

2. If it's "gods will" then it isn't my "free will" and hence that's the end of that. Kindly get it straight.

 

[Adstar]

According to religious faith are people condemned because of a lack of belief? Is it belief that’s saving or condemning?

Believing God, accepting His Will is right and proper is the key to Eternity with Him.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[earth]

Believing God, accepting His Will is right and proper is the key to Eternity with Him.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I have no evidence of a God. My question is whether or not belief without evidence is enough to condemn?

 

[Bells]

But i know in eternity Jesus will wipe away every tear and there will be no more suffering for those who loved the truth. My Hope is with the Messiah Jesus.

Each individual must stand before God and answer to their repose to His will. I will, Lori will, Enmos will, Q will and You will Snakelord. I say in faith, His Will Be Done. I trust in His will for it is perfect.

I choose bacon!

Mmmmm.. bacon...

 

[Lori_7]

According to religious faith are people condemned because of a lack of belief? Is it belief that’s saving or condemning?

According to the faith people condemn themselves voluntarily by a willful avoidance of the truth... A reluctance, denial, shunning. Not knowing what the truth is, they know they don't want it. A rejection, because they're afraid of the consequences of it, primarily conviction, so they perceive that its easier to cling to lies and stay in the dark, where they don't have to see what they've become and what they do to themselves and each other. That is what its like in hell, and if you look you will also find that quality in many people around you every day.

 

[Lori_7]

I have no evidence of a God. My question is whether or not belief without evidence is enough to condemn?

Belief wo evidence is a lie. You can know god though.

 

[(Q)]

So here we come to peoples intentions.

What was your intention Q in joining in this exercise?

So that your god will visit me and convince me of his existence, of course. Pay attention.

Was it done with a desire to try to place doubt in the mind of Lori by saying.

"Hey YOUR prayer did not work. God did not come to me. If God exists and if He listens to you and answers your prayers, then this test would have succeded. Since God did not come to me Lori then God does not exist and you do not talk to him"

That pretty much sums it up.

Now we get back to the question i put forward to Lori before.

Can our desire and our relationship with God overcome the the desire of the other in relation to God?

Now if the desire of the other all this time has been to disprove God and to destroy the faith of another in God. What would be the will of God in this process?

Who cares? This is all about your god visiting me. He is all-powerful, yes? He is all-knowing, yes? Then, what's the problem?

God's non-existence is the problem, perhaps?

 

[(Q)]

According to the faith people condemn themselves voluntarily by a willful avoidance of the truth... A reluctance, denial, shunning. Not knowing what the truth is, they know they don't want it. A rejection, because they're afraid of the consequences of it, primarily conviction, so they perceive that its easier to cling to lies and stay in the dark, where they don't have to see what they've become and what they do to themselves and each other. That is what its like in hell, and if you look you will also find that quality in many people around you every day.

Nonsense, Lori. Atheism is about not accepting the claims of thiests as theists offer no evidence to their claims. Atheists would LOVE to see the evidence and are waiting in the peanut gallery patiently.

Yet, no one offers evidence, including the gods in question.

So, atheists continue to wait and use their time to live their lives rather than bless an imaginary god.

 

[Lori_7]

Nonsense, Lori. Atheism is about not accepting the claims of thiests as theists offer no evidence to their claims. Atheists would LOVE to see the evidence and are waiting in the peanut gallery patiently.

Yet, no one offers evidence, including the gods in question.

So, atheists continue to wait and use their time to live their lives rather than bless an imaginary god.

this is the point i'm always trying to make with you. who is it you're looking to to provide this evidence? is it the theists or is it god? because hanging out in the peanut gallery isn't going to get it. you could stand to be a little more proactive...ok, a lot more proactive.

pay attention to who you're seeking from and how you're seeking. who's door are you knocking on?

 

[earth]

Belief wo evidence is a lie. You can know god though.

I have never seen supporting evidence of a God. Belief without evidence equaling lies, yes.


If you knew it which is pretending to be a God, then you would know it isn’t one. Is anybody in contact with this so called God? Meaning, is anybody getting an honest to goodness answer from "it" instead of reading about it?

 

[Lori_7]

I have never seen supporting evidence of a God. Belief without evidence equaling lies, yes.


If you knew it which is pretending to be a God, then you would know it isn’t one. Is anybody in contact with this so called God? Meaning, is anybody getting an honest to goodness answer from "it" instead of reading about it?

yeah, i am.

 

[(Q)]

this is the point i'm always trying to make with you. who is it you're looking to to provide this evidence? is it the theists or is it god? because hanging out in the peanut gallery isn't going to get it. you could stand to be a little more proactive...ok, a lot more proactive.

pay attention to who you're seeking from and how you're seeking. who's door are you knocking on?

Again, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, Lori. It has nothing to do me and everything to do with your god. I don't control him nor do I make his decisions.

Bottom line: You requested he visit me, I'm waiting. That's it. He doesn't visit me, we can then make an analysis and come to a conclusion.

I'm getting the impression you're trying to get out of this as you probably know a visit will never happen, yes?

 

[Lori_7]

Again, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, Lori. It has nothing to do me and everything to do with your god. I don't control him nor do I make his decisions.

Bottom line: You requested he visit me, I'm waiting. That's it. He doesn't visit me, we can then make an analysis and come to a conclusion.

I'm getting the impression you're trying to get out of this as you probably know a visit will never happen, yes?

you initiating and having a relationship with god doesn't have anything to do with you? are you out of your fucking mind?

 

[Pipes75]

If God's a part of everything, he can never be whole again until everything is back into one.

If God exists, he can't be seen or understood, because he can't be whole while other life still exists. I can't imagine God being able to hold conversations with us, but I suppose many unbelievable things are possible until proven false. Although I see no proof that he does .
If God is real, he would be so much bigger than us, how could we comprehand his voice? We can't have conversations with insects that I'm aware of, and I imagine we'd be even smaller than insects, we are just molecules in 'Gods' world!
If God is real, and he does speak, I doubt we could understand his language! Do molecules understand English? Same idea to me .

But whether God is real or not, and what he/she/it is either way, the possibilities of multi universes still exist with multiple dimensions, and it might get even bigger then that! Our universes begining might just be a small part of a bigger singularity that once was a small part of an even bigger singularity, etc... The begining of it all might be 'God'!

God has nothing to do with religion, that was mans perceptions.

 

[earth]

yeah, i am.

Okay Lori, thank you for being honest. Do you want to discuss your experiences? I too have heard from "it".

 

[(Q)]

you initiating and having a relationship with god doesn't have anything to do with you? are you out of your fucking mind?

Lori, that's not what I said. I said that your god visiting me doesn't have anything to do with me in that he either visits me or he doesn't. I don't control him. Do you get it now?

So, when is he going to visit me?

 

[earth]

Lori, that's not what I said. I said that your god visiting me doesn't have anything to do with me in that he either visits me or he doesn't. I don't control him. Do you get it now?

So, when is he going to visit me?

Most likely you have heard from “it”. Sometimes pictures you see in your thoughts could easily be from ‘it” instead of imagination or daydreams.