biological imperative?you talking procreation?
and why/how would the second part be a good thing?
Religious belief...a mental illness?
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biological imperative?you talking procreation?
and why/how would the second part be a good thing?
I'm talking survival. The second part? We could finally stop pretending there is an animal called morality. Or even humanity.
what happens after survival is guarenteed?
and what are you suggesting? an end to morality? an end to any sense of moderation concerning our own humanity?
imo humanity is flawed,humanity tends to keep our focus on our own needs,regardless of the consequences
Science never supported a racist ideology.
I agree. Science isn’t xenophobic. Science is a search for observable verifiable facts. Facts that whoever chooses to do so can observe and verify.
NMSquirrel
Do you really believe the only thing keeping people from being immoral is god?
How does god currently hold us responsible for our immorality?
I have never seen god do anything about immorality, I have seen people do something about immorality. Are you suggesting it is the fear of god which stops people from acting immorally?
Christian's believe that animals have no soul, and that they will not go to heaven. So animals are just instinct driven souless creatures right?
Tell me your explanation for this experiment if morals are unique to god fearing humans.
2 monkeys were put into a cage side by side. For the first little while the monkey in the left cage would hit a lever and be given food. He did this often. However one day the conditions changed, every time he hit a lever an electric shock was given to the monkey on the right. So if the monkey wanted food, he had to be prepared to shock the other monkey. The monkey refused to hit the lever any more, and began to starve.
Did the monkey fear god's judgement and therefore acts morally?
How many humans would let themselves starve to death so that they didn't harm another human? I'd say not a majority.
This experiment demonstrates that monkeys have better morals than humans, and they apparantly don't have a soul, and they have no concept of god at all.
Therefore a souless godless society does have the capacity for morals.
Do you really believe the only thing keeping people from being immoral is god?
How does god currently hold us responsible for our immorality?
I have never seen god do anything about immorality, I have seen people do something about immorality. Are you suggesting it is the fear of god which stops people from acting immorally?
Christian's believe that animals have no soul, and that they will not go to heaven. So animals are just instinct driven souless creatures right?
Tell me your explanation for this experiment if morals are unique to god fearing humans.
2 monkeys were put into a cage side by side. For the first little while the monkey in the left cage would hit a lever and be given food. He did this often. However one day the conditions changed, every time he hit a lever an electric shock was given to the monkey on the right. So if the monkey wanted food, he had to be prepared to shock the other monkey. The monkey refused to hit the lever any more, and began to starve.
Did the monkey fear god's judgement and therefore acts morally?
How many humans would let themselves starve to death so that they didn't harm another human? I'd say not a majority.
This experiment demonstrates that monkeys have better morals than humans, and they apparantly don't have a soul, and they have no concept of god at all.
Therefore a souless godless society does have the capacity for morals.
yes.....(tough question..can't explain without bringing religion into it..)
ok..hear my point..don't get caught on the word religion..
without religion to bring a sense of moderation to our actions,how quickly would our species degenerate into a society of ppl doing whatever they feel like..
now to try to disclaim the word religion..how many ppl in this world would show moderation if they were to listen to god instead of religion?..(don't think i made my point..did i?)
i also believe that god through the bible( and other religious texts as well) have taught morality, why should we be so willing to throw out the rule book (just using this word for sake of argument,personally i view it as a guide not rules)
just cause some ppl have abused it for their own purposes..
we are to the point in our society where it is not considered a bad thing to question religion..i am not opposed to this..what i am opposed to is equateing bad religious practices with gods intent..
how much harm has been done to god in the name of religion?
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M*W: I don't think that christians, as a rule, are any more mentally ill than any other religion. However, there are some people of all religions that have delusional beliefs. Some that come to mind are Islamic terrorists, christian snake handlers, and all the doomsday cults. I know a few christian believers who have taken it a bit further than the usual christianity. I believe at least three of them could be diagnosed as schizophrenic.
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M*W: Paul was believed to be epileptic. So was Muhammad. So, it's very possible that these two had epileptic seizures and hallucinated their respective religious visions. I also suspect these two were delusional.
I am with you in believing that Jesus of the NT did not exist. It's also highly doubtful that anyone named "Jesus" existed at the time and location of the Jesus of the NT. If he existed in life or in metaphor, his name would have been something like Joshua or something similar. I agree with you that his followers were probably delusional.
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M*W: Well, these people you mention could not have known how Jesus actually talked whether he existed or not. Their understanding of how Jesus might have talked if he were real or even the fictional character he is, is delusional. Some are misguided and pathetic. Others need to be locked in a rubber room.
i think it's delusional to think that so many people are delusional. particularly when it's only those who disagree with you.
i didn't ask.
i wasn't responding to you. do you own this forum now? if you do, then you should probably realize that you're flaming.
You have to justify your opinions to have a intellectual debate Lori. You aren't, so why should anybody care what you have to say. And why are you even here if you aren't going to back up anything that you say.
Simply saying I think you are delusional is worthless.
Simply saying I think you are delusional is worthless.
so is telling me that you don't care what i think, but that didn't stop you.
my point was pretty clear...that is, if you think that everyone who believes in something that you do not, or has experienced something that you have not, is delusional, because they differ from you in this regard, then you are most likely the delusional one. particularly if it is something so prevalent as a belief in, or an experience of, god, or something spiritual in nature.
you are the minority so, the fact is, that you think the majority of people on earth are delusional. that doesn't seem a bit questionable to you?
then there's the issue of qualification...
the post that i was responding to, that being MW's, was chock full of speculation that's driven by absolutely nothing except a reluctance to believe something.
i, on the other hand, have actually had spiritual experiences. i'm fairly well-educated, take care of myself financially and otherwise, own and maintain a home, have healthy relationships...it's not like i'm twitchin' and droolin' over here ok? i've never been diagnosed with anything more serious than a mild case of bronchitis.
so unlike all of the speculators, i'm not just making wishes to justify my ego. i actually know what i'm talking about.
the post that i was responding to, that being MW's, was chock full of speculation that's driven by absolutely nothing except a reluctance to believe something.
i, on the other hand, have actually had spiritual experiences. i'm fairly well-educated, take care of myself financially and otherwise, own and maintain a home, have healthy relationships...it's not like i'm twitchin' and droolin' over here ok? i've never been diagnosed with anything more serious than a mild case of bronchitis.
so unlike all of the speculators, i'm not just making wishes to justify my ego. i actually know what i'm talking about.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Only thing is, we don't believe that religion can be delusional because it is opposed to our view. We believe it is delusional because of the beliefs themselves.
If I say believing a snake can talk is delusional, I say it not because it's something I myself don't believe, but because the very nature of the belief itself is delusional.
Really though the purpose of this post is just to see what people would think would happen if it changed to the majority seeing religious belief as delusional.
I only propose this is as a possiblity. I don't say it will actually happen. And I'm just interested in what would happen if it did.
Only thing is, we don't believe that religion can be delusional because it is opposed to our view. We believe it is delusional because of the beliefs themselves.
If I say believing a snake can talk is delusional, I say it not because it's something I myself don't believe, but because the very nature of the belief itself is delusional.
Really though the purpose of this post is just to see what people would think would happen if it changed to the majority seeing religious belief as delusional.
I only propose this is as a possiblity. I don't say it will actually happen. And I'm just interested in what would happen if it did.
you're welcome.
the idea that something exists, that cannot be, or is not normally, observed or experienced through the five physical senses, has been proven by science to be not far-fetched at all. and the idea that there is a higher power in the universe, for example law, that we cannot control, and do not fully understand, is the very basis of science. that's not delusional. the idea that there is an inherent flaw in humanity that cannot be fixed with science, politics, healthcare, or religion is not delusional either. the suffering is quite evident. and to think that might change, and not because of any human construct, may be negotiable, but not delusional.
Power is not the right word, but still I think she is on to something. There is something very Platonic about most science. IOW that there is an underlying set of rules that govern all things and that science will find these by cataloguing patterns. There are scientists who are not comfortable with a Platonic conception of 'laws', but many are Platonist, in fact I would say the majority - not that they generally identify themselves as such.