Religion Becomes Extinct in Several Countires

lightgigantic said:
Then you are not having the same problems as YoYoPapaya and Dywyddyr

congratulations
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I think they are arguing from the position that atheism doesn't have to have an ontological basis. People that have never come into contact with the idea of God or gods or haven't given it much or any thought are also atheists.
 
Enmos said:
I think they are arguing from the position that atheism doesn't have to have an ontological basis.
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then they have no position to state what is real or what isn't

People that have never come into contact with the idea of God or gods or haven't given it much or any thought are also atheists.
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people that have never come into contact with the subject are certainly not in the same category as persons who have thought poorly about a subject
 
lightgigantic said:
And you are trying to suggest that they can make that comment without having recourse to contextualizing the claims of others?
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Which bit of my post did you not understand?
Or maybe you're just playing with the meaning of contextualise
contextualize, contextualise [kənˈtɛkstjʊəˌlaɪz]
vb
(tr) to state the social, grammatical, or other context of; put into context
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"I believe in god" had much the same result on me as "I think XXX is the best footballer in the world", for many years.
 
Dywyddyr said:
How much "ontological basis" does one require to have a lack of belief?
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A lot. (Provided, of course, that you aren't one of the original Pirahas or weren't raised by wolves.)

IOW, you have plenty of reasons, and which you believe are good reasons, for "lacking belief in God".
 
Dywyddyr said:
Which bit of my post did you not understand?
Or maybe you're just playing with the meaning of contextualise
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which part of the post did you not understand?




"I believe in god" had much the same result on me as "I think XXX is the best footballer in the world", for many years.
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Now compare "I think XXX exists" with "I don't believe you" and try and explain how the second person can make that comment without having recourse to contextualizing the statement (ie placing the other's statement in a context that radically changes its appeal to a claim about reality)
 
Signal said:
A lot. (Provided, of course, that you aren't one of the original Pirahas or weren't raised by wolves.)

IOW, you have plenty of reasons, and which you believe are good reasons, for "lacking belief in God".
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No. I've already explained this to you.
Why does one need to justify a lack of belief?
The belief is absent. It isn't there. There is no belief. :shrug:
 
Dywyddyr said:
"I believe in god" had much the same result on me as "I think XXX is the best footballer in the world", for many years.
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The fact is that you barely engage in debates on who the best footballer is, right?
But you talk a lot about belief in God!

IOW, the God issue is not a neutral one for you.
There are values and beliefs underlying your involvement in these discussions.
We want to know what these values and beliefs are.
 
Signal said:
The fact is that you barely engage in debates on who the best footballer is, right?
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Oops, wrong.
In my late teens and early twenties ALL of my best friends, the crowd I went out with on weekends, were avid fans. But, unlike here on Sci, they never tried to inject football into science discussions.

But you talk a lot about belief in God!
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Yep. I got dragged in. (See above).

IOW, the God issue is not a neutral one for you.
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Not now. But for decades it was.

There are values and beliefs underlying your involvement in these discussions.
We want to know what these values and beliefs are.
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Reasons for my involvement? I find it fascinating the way some theists try to justify their belief, recourse to science (and ignoring the bits that don't suit), sheer (apparently) fantasy in at least one case, and I'm learning things. About me as much as anything else.
 
Enmos said:
They both lack belief in God. So, in that respect, yes.
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And you think that the way they have arrived at this lack of belief in God, and their claims that contextualize their lack of belief in God - do not matter, make no difference to their atheism?
 
Signal said:
And you think that the way they have arrived at this lack of belief in God, and their claims that contextualize their lack of belief in God - do not matter, make no difference to their atheism?
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It may matter but not 'to their atheism'.
 
Dywyddyr said:
Reasons for my involvement? I find it fascinating the way some theists try to justify their belief, recourse to science (and ignoring the bits that don't suit), sheer (apparently) fantasy in at least one case, and I'm learning things. About me as much as anything else.
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I think you are rather secretive. ;)
You'll need to tell us more, either in a personalized way (ie. telling about your thoughts, feelings and experiences) or in an abstract way (ie. providing a detailed philosophical account of your stance).
 
Enmos said:
It may matter but not 'to their atheism'.
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So you're saying that they are both content in their beliefs, whatever they are, and we should respect that, and it is taboo to question people's motivations for their beliefs?
 
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