Next thing you will be challenging me to a fist fight out the front of the department of social security at 10am tomorrowThat's right LG, make sure you get your snout into women's bedrooms. I smell a voyeur's wet dream happening here...
:shrug:
Next thing you will be challenging me to a fist fight out the front of the department of social security at 10am tomorrowThat's right LG, make sure you get your snout into women's bedrooms. I smell a voyeur's wet dream happening here...
So you can see who is involved in these practices, observe trends etc.
For instance I recall one doctor who was one of the rare ones who consented to performing late term abortions having their license temporarily suspended (like getting a slap on the wrist) for prescribing over the counter drugs to patients in an unregulated manner. I think these sorts of things have to be scrutinized more carefully.
More along the lines of establishing it as provisional as opposed to some sort of essential ingredient of the public health welfare package.
Is that an available option? Do you usually hang out at the SS office around 10? I'm sure you can collect a lot of "data" that way. :shrug:Next thing you will be challenging me to a fist fight out the front of the department of social security at 10am tomorrow
:shrug:
Oh yeah, this: "If she is going to die before the viable fetus can be born naturally, then it should be extracted, if the extraction is going to kill her then and there so be it."
OK. So be it. At least your position is clear, nothing more to say to you. I would say I hope that your wife finds herself having to choose between dying several months or years early in order to give birth to your child but I imagine you would take that in stride. And justify it with some sort of superiority argument. Plus, it wouldn't be fair to that hypothetical "wife".
So you have the unmitigated gall to claim to be pro-choice. My revulsion could not be more profound. Ah well, the odious must exist as well..
so did you miss how that is not where the subject was introduced in its first instance?Since it was implicitly noted this morning, and explicitly this evening, and accounting for ... what was it, five attempts to pin your posts on someone else? ... that is quite a remarkable line you've offered.
Review your response at #1066, and see if you can figure out what's wrong with it.
It would be even nicer if you would start to make sense.
Probably the prime location for hysterical people with unresolved conflict issues to get to the bottom of things.Is that an available option? Do you usually hang out at the SS office around 10? I'm sure you can collect a lot of "data" that way. :shrug:
One notable aspect of this post is that the presence of the last line indicates that the entire post is purposeful, conscious.If Bells has anything relevant to say, we are yet to see her manage to do it a manner that isn't born of hysterical rage bordering on the deranged.
The irony of this is that any hysteria that is dealt back to her (with the aim of letting her see just exactly how she is behaving) in the same sort of fashion at a ratio of about 50% simply sends her over the edge.
I mean did EF really suggest that she was giving someone a blow job?
Funnily enough the last time I suggested she was a troll and that she "waddle back to her cave" she raised her hairs about this somehow being a suggestion she was over weight?
Its pretty obvious there is an agenda afoot to misrepresent what and why people are saying things.
Certainly hope the process involves more than you and bells explaining to each other why you are right.Mod Hat — The clock is running
It should be noted that we have reached a crossroads. Actually, we've passed this way a few times before.
In recent weeks, this thread has escalated from the blatant misogyny of trolling in order to suppress a discussion of a woman's human rights to sexual harassment and rape advocacy.
The staff has, in response to a moderator policy inquiry, explored of late the question of open insults versus bad faith. The underlying proposition seemed dysfunctional, but as we could not reconcile the terms, this thread, which was the genesis of that inquiry, was allowed to follow its natural course.
EM&J is my responsibility. I have chosen to let this run as long as it has, and now members have escalated to a new valence of offenses.
There will be repercussions. They will be severe.
The proposition underlying the policy dispute we've undertaken has fallen through. Not even its original advocate is willing to push the case.
What a waste.
I would advise some of our members to start composing their explanations, justifications, pleas for mercy, or condemnations of everyone else in the world, except to be frank, I don't care. You had your chances, and now you've gone too far. We have tolerated advocacy of bad behavior to the point that such behavior no longer has an advocate; the behavior has overwhelmed what would otherwise be its protection.
Again, what a waste.
There comes a point when ignorance is no excuse. To the other, that checkpoint is somewhere in the dusty nowhere we have already traversed.
Say whatever you need to say. The clock is running, and zero hour is whatever time we manage to wade through this abhorrent display of hatred and bigotry.
errr... okOne notable aspect of this post is that the presence of the last line indicates that the entire post is purposeful, conscious.
The poster's agenda is to misrepresent "what and why people are saying things", deliberately. And they are aware of that - self aware. All that word salad and deflective foggery is calculated, the opportunities for personal insult arranged and foreseen.
That is not just trolling: it's sociopathic. Providing a platform for that poster is abetting a mental illness.
That 1% of the annual one million abortions comes out to 10000. So out of that not so small number, do you know the specifics and fetal age associated with each of these cases? Since the vast majority of abortions are done for non-medical reasons, you don’t think that some percentage of these late term procedures also fit that criterion?Unlike you, Kittamaru actually understands my position. You not only misunderstand it, but you have twisted it into something it is not.
As I and many many others have pointed out (over about 10 years now on this forum, at least), how many women do you think get to full term and go 'ermm nup, don't want to do this anymore, getting an abortion!'? No, seriously, how many?
And as has been pointed out so many times now, I am just about to keybind the phrase, less than 1% of women abort after the point of viability. The majority of those do so due to a health reason for the foetus or the mother or both, others because they miscalculated or did not know they were pregnant or were denied the chance to abort earlier (you can look up the numerous laws that demand women wait weeks before being able to access an abortion - which forces women into positions of having to abort after 24 weeks). So how about we look at realities instead of your perverse fantasies of how to murder a woman and her baby? You know, debate real life things.
Where have I suggested that a mother must sacrifice her life for that of her fetus? Pregnancy is not normally considered a death sentence, and the risk of carrying a late term fetus to delivery is statistically equal to that of a late term abortion. When a pregnancy legitimately threatens the life of a mother, and the only resolution is to sacrifice the fetus, then the fetus loses.The dry foot policy works as thus... Because the foetus is in the womb of its mother, its rights cannot trump the mother's. Applying personhood from that point on would mean that the mother loses all rights. If she falls ill or something happens, then she can lose her rights and in too many instances to count, women are being forced to die sooner or to simply die, because they are denied treatment or abortions when they fall ill. This is the nightmare that is personhood. Certaintly, if a woman decides to keep a baby, it should never mean that she should be forced into a death sentence if she falls ill for the sake of the child she is carrying. The mother's right to life should always be paramount in pregnancy.
Talk about twisting, where have I advocated killing women, fetuses or babies?So perhaps you can stop misrepresenting my argument and lying outright because you want to turn a woman into a fucking Turducken - in short, the argument you have now decided to adopt is merely you trying to find new ways to kill a woman and her child. And frankly, it is obscene. I have seen some sick shit from pro-lifer's, but you are taking the cake. Because heaven forbid you apply reality to your argument. Oh no, you went for the Turducken argument and then somehow or other have come to the belief that I support the murder of babies. At no time did I ever make that argument, so yes, you are making crap up to fit into your fantasies. I apply real life cases, you turn women into a Turducken and ask me "what if" in that scenario.
Oh I get it; I’m a misogynist for advocating a policy that the vast majority of women would support over yours. Does this statistical reality make you and Tiassa misogynists too?For misogynists, of course it would apply to women as well. I mean you get the level of stupid of such a stance, don't you? Or are you simply blind to it? What am I saying, you're asking 'what if you killed a woman and a baby by stuffing a baby back in her womb after it has been born'..
Just to be clear, the only evidence of me advocating the needless death of anything in this thread is in your own demented mind, because it most definitely isn't in any of my posts.Just to be clear, the only people making the argument to kill live babies here have been you and EF. No one else has. Doesn't that strike you as strange? At all? And the only people making the argument that killing a woman is acceptable has been you and EF. So yeah, what other twisted and sick ways are you two going to think up ways to murder a woman and her baby?
It's very easy to joke about severe post natal depression. Until you walk in their shoes that is.
Then why advocate for the right to have it done?No abortion doctor will abort a baby at full term if it is a healthy and live foetus. None
Oh, the irony.WILL YOU FUCKING STOP LYING AND MAKING CRAP UP?
That would also require a radical change in attitudes toward sex and toward heterosexual relationships in general, and also toward the topic of the meaning of life as such.More along the lines of establishing it as provisional as opposed to some sort of essential ingredient of the public health welfare package.
As far as service delivery goes, there may not be a whole of difference between these two options ,
but it would represent a change in attitude towards it.
Misogyny is not ancient at all, it is very modern, and often found among those who are its vocal opponents ...Misogyny is an ancient attitude, and ancient attitudes are the province of the conservatives. As I've noted before, conservatives as a demographic group are driven more by emotion than logic. So the conflict you see in their attitudes is simply invisible to them because it's based on logic.
Capracus said:
Then why advocate for the right to have it done?
Yes you are, in some cases at least. That seems self-evident in this remark:Can you explain how this one scenario makes me pro-life? Am I advocating that life begins at conception? Am I advocating that abortions be made illegal?
The mother chose abortion, in this case to prolong her own life. You would deny that choice by force of law - as in: "if the extraction is going to kill her then and there so be it." Would you label that "pro-choice"? Do you need a dictionary to aid you here?"If she is going to die before the viable fetus can be born naturally, then it should be extracted, if the extraction is going to kill her then and there so be it."
Ethically consistent? the only thing consistent about your "ethics" is that you place the potential life of a foetus over the life of the mother. It's really pretty obvious EF. To you, if the foetus is "viable" its rights outweigh the mothers. Every time. Right?That scenario only proves I make an exception for a extreme scenario to remain ethically consistant...
Purely hypothetical, eh? I think it's not much of a stretch to get from here:...one that may in fact be purely hypothetical.
You see, I couldn't care less about your sexual orientation or lifestyle choices. That's the difference between me and your crowd. I don't give a hoot who is or isn't shagging who or when or where - that's your choice. I don't care if you get high or not - that's your choice. I believe a woman should be able to have a choice about what happens inside her own body. Do you see a pattern here yet EF?I don't plan to ever marry, I don't need to explain to you my sexual prefrence as frankly its a long explaination, but marriage to a women or man is not for me.
Again as explained before you are being deliberately obtuse in your refusal to recognize the parameters and constraints set forth in the original hypothetical. It doesn't matter anymore though because your true colors bled through anyway.Again as explained before "years early" could not happen under my ethical framework for if she going to die after a full term pregnancy then there is no need to abort: just do a cessection before birth.
Do you?Am I suppose to care about your revulsion?
Fair enough.How about this I'm disgusted you think a mother has the right to murder a viable fetus to buy a few extra weeks of life.
No, the question then one becomes of ethics of a different kind.I would guess an arbitrary date would need to be used for the point at which it becomes medically too expensive to be "viable".