You have been raped before?
Sexually assaulted by someone you know and trust?
No.
But then that is hardly a prerequisite for "Any self defense class for women" ... much less being familiar with how they design learning outcomes., is it?
I have to wonder, is your stupidity learned or were you born with it?
Even your own rape prevention links state that survival when being attacked is the most important thing and sometimes, if remaining passive means you live, you remain passive.
Not only that, but even my own statement that you are attempting to respond to at the moment :
"I'm not sure what makes you think there is a predominance of preventative strategies out there that advocate one must prevent an incident even at the cost of surviving. ("yes ma'am, the surgery was a success but unfortunately the patient died")"
Did you have a point to make aside from the obvious one about your inability to read stuff before you give an opinion?
You see LG, the thing with such classes (and I have attended many and spoken at even more) is that you don't tell women it is up to them to prevent themselves from being raped. You tell them that they must do their best to survive and if being raped means they get to live, then they should remain passive. Those classes are also usually aimed at rape and sexual assault survivors and it is a way of letting them know that they survived and that they have nothing to be ashamed of... Your version of rape prevention places that onus on the woman, which is an insane amount of pressure on her and if she is raped, she will feel guilt for not having stopped it.
and of course the problem with your approach is that you give zero skills to deal with it if it happens in the future. This isn't to say of course that advocacy methodologies are ineffective or less in value or whatever.
Rather, this is to say why people gravitate for a more empowering pro-active approach - namely victim advocacy
and prevention strategy (eg - Louise Nicholas and the rape prevention education she is part of) since this offers a more complete approach to the problem
You see Bells, unlike you, most people can manage to benefit from this approach since they don't have an insane dichotomy running between their ears that exists purely for the sake of saving face on an online discussion forum.
:shrug:
Your version of rape prevention stems from the whole ideology that if a woman doesn't fight back, she is somehow wanting it. That if she remains passive or freezes during her assault, then she obviously didn't do enough.
More evidence that you haven't attended any of these so-called numerous classes.
Can you find themes of this in Louise Nicholas's & co's presentation?
Do you even get that is why everyone bar Wynn and Billvon have been calling you out in this thread? It's not everyone else LG. It is you.
Hmm. A tough question. When it comes to the question of how to protect women from rape, and the societal effects of that protection, who should one heed?
A woman who has been raped, helps teach a class on how to protect oneself from rape, speaks regularly on women's rights, pushes for changes in laws for women's protection and advocates for rape survivors in court?
Or (3) angry poster(s) on the Internet?
Tough one.
Do you even know what her fate was?
Do you understand how you just made a statement about who she was exclusively focused on teaching and that you are plainly wrong?
Do you understand that we are not actually talking about Louise Nicholas's history but rather who she is focusing on as a target audience?
Do you realize that the you are the one who is trying to manipulate who she is and what she does just so you can pretend that she has nothing to do with rape prevention?
Do you realize that this is technically not possible for you because she has worked for an organization called "rape prevention education" which, amongst other things, actually educates people how to prevent being raped?
Do you realize how utterly offensive your attitude of "persons advocating rape prevention are actually making excuses for rapists" is to such people?
Do you realize how insignificant your own experience and efforts to deal with the problem of rape are when compared to the collective time, energy, resources and knowledge base of individuals facilitating that organization?
For ****'* sake Bells, get off your high horse!!
She helps provide counseling sessions and help for rape victims, you twat.
She probably also watches TV, enjoys swimming and eating cake too.
All this however doesn't detract from her teaching and advocating rape prevention.
:shrug:
And you did notice that the site also has a section aimed at potential rapists and help lines to help them stop offending? Yes? No?
Sure I noticed. In fact if you bothered to read stuff before you gave an opinion, you would see its not the first link I've offerred that does this.
And of course one of the main reasons for this is that its quite common to see individuals/organizations that facilitate a broad scope of advocacy/prevention measures .... which, according to you, is a notion that doesn't occur in the real world.
My god you are such a liar.
You harped on and on about the train station earlier on in the thread, until you latched onto Ms Nicholas' rape and her sessions she has aimed at rape survivors. You then went on to designate certain "risky scenarios" which you deem could place a woman at risk of being raped. I and others pointed out that the onus should be on men to not rape, something you found ridiculous.
Quote me.
All you will have to go on is your own imaginative babble stemming from not reading stuff in the first place.
:shrug:
You openly disregarded
that the greater majority of rapes are acquaintance rape, then went on to discuss how women should somehow protect themselves by citing examples of how one protects one's car from theft and then acted like a dick when it was pointed out to you that such comparison's were offensive.
So don't lie.
Find a quote where I disregard that a greater majority of rapes are acquaintance rape.
Find a quote where I draw a qualitative comparison between rape and auto-theft to suggest that the the loss and immorality of the acts are on par with each other.
Once again, slobber chops, quote me. I dare you.
You see, there is a big difference between holding people accountable to what they say and holding people accountable to what one imagines they say.
A normal person, if they made such a mistake, would offer an apology.
My my..
Again, this does not apply for the greater majority of rapes...
Did she say it did?
Did I say it did?
Did anyone who has posted anything on this thread so far say it?
Did you imagine that someone said it did?
In other words, if she is drinking, then she is somehow to blame..
you got that from reading
the link?
You should move to Scotland.
The police there find your reasoning to be as ridiculous as everyone else here finds it and
their rape prevention programs are aimed at men..
And a link about a successful program for victim advocacy is supposed to tell us what?
That your ideas about them being diametrically opposed to rapist excusing prevention strategies are now suddenly credible?
:shrug:
You see LG, I am a survivor of a sexual assault. I have also spent a lot of time with women and children who have been raped, molested, abused, assaulted. So I find your sexist and abusive attitude to be inherently harmful. Then again, you seem to believe it is up to the woman to not be raped and your views on women and their rights are well known on this site, so I should not be surprised by this continued misogyny .
I never doubted that you were a survivor of sexual assault.
I am simply doubting that your ideas are very comprehensive ... mostly on the authority of other survivors of sexual assault and individuals who adopt their ideas of working
simultaneously with advocacy
and prevention
It tends to further show just how dishonest you are.
:shrug:
will the irony never end?
Its not a lie.
I really did chuckle and find it funny.
I mean it wasn't like serious rolling on the floor laughing - it was more like the quick guffawing noises you make from a smiling mouth when something suddenly strikes you as amusing.
How many times were you asked by many people in this thread how can a woman identify a rapist,
how many times have I answered, even providing links that not only tell it, they teach it?
I even posted you photos of 6 men and asked you to identify the rapist, and each time, you have refused to do it.
If you even read what I said you wouldn't embarrass yourself by bringing that up again ... especially when you try and pretend that you have been to "many of these seminars"
Your rape prevention spiel is aimed at putting women in their place, not going out, not drinking, not having sex... You expect women to behave and act in such a way so that they are not raped and if they are raped, then you expect them to behave in a certain way as well. You expect women to be able to identify their rapists and take preventative measures to stop themselves from being raped. You belittle and abuse rape and sexual assault survivors because they don't act in a certain way. In short, you believe that women are the ones who must stop men from raping, because you believe that to expect and educate men to not rape is ridiculous. You compare women to cars and use the pathetic and misogynistic line that if one uses a lock on one's car to stop it from being stolen, then somehow women should follow "OH&S principles" to not be raped.
You are disgustingly sexist LG and you are a pathetic human being
Someone said to me that you are clearly ignorant. I don't think ignorance is your problem. I think you are a sexist twat because of how you view women and their rights in society.
Your main problem is that you cannot understand that you are not the most important player in dealing with the problem of rape.
In fact we could even
possibly say that you are not even an effective player since you insist on playing prevention as nothing but a means for making excuse for rapists .. an attitude which any
actual professional in the field would find immature at best or disgusting at worst. IOW your opinions fly in the face of persons more qualified, more experienced, more skilled and more capable than yourself.
The notion of advocacy and prevention working in tandem is so widespread and effective, that even you inadvertently gave a link to it in an attempt to present a view of how it "really" is.
And to top it all off, I seriously don't think you really believe this horseshit idea of yours.
Granted, you have certain issues with some or maybe even many ideas of rape prevention, some of which may even be legitimate. I don't however think you are totally against prevention as a concept. The reason I think this is because you have stepped off the gas a bit when it became apparent that your ideas are also tarring people like Louise Nicholas, and it was starting to make you sound like a
dickhead.
:shrug:
I think the real issue at stake here is that you are just too stubborn and puffed up to admit that your stance was too extreme and poorly thought out and a consequence of your spur of the moment hot-headedness.
No doubt your egotism won't allow you to comprehend this statement and you will think I am simply trying to say "Look at me Bells!! I do more to help rape victims than you!!!" ... followed of course by more ploys and sleight of hand manouvers aimed at trying to make Louise Nicholas appear as something other than an advocate of rape prevention (including of course the standard spicing of insult and ranting based on either imagination and/or things no one actually said) .
I can hardly wait ...
/grabs popcorn
(BTW there would be more shrugging emoticons in this post but 6 is the maximum)
