questions to an abductee

[Stryder]

I would suggest breaking down what an abduction is usually refering too, in most cases the Abduction is not apparently, however the loss of time is, and freshly made markings etc. Abductions are usually perceived as the mind filling in for the lost segment of time, but to as what really happened is the mystery.

In all instances the suggestion is experimentation, where the individual is experimented upon or apart of an experiment, as for what the experiment is about is usually down to the perception of the individual and their own biased in rationality. (One could claim it was for the propagation of a new hybrid race, where another will be suggesting it was organ harvesting.)


My own suggestion is that Very clever, sneaky men using very illegal tactics are doing this. The application of alien intervention is just a "gimmick" used to sell false impression of whats going on, to keep people away from the actual truth. The truth is difficult to suggest however there are a few proximations:

Firstly there is the "Labrat", as it's known in science that experiments on either a persons perception, mental state, or even lifestyle could be brought into question, as every abductee tends to state what occurs changes their life. Such people responsible for "Labrats" will be Cult groups, Pseudoscientists, Underfunded Scientists and freelance blackops specialists.

Next there is the "Citizen", being a citizen of a country means you can be called upon by the powers that be if national need dictates (Like being "Conscripted"). This allows Governments and Military staff to do exactly as mentioned in the "Labrat" section, but using Military prowess to disguise the legality.

Lastly there is the "Paradoxical Extensionists" these I can't suggest exist or deny they exist either. The future from most individuals perspective is unwritten, but if the future was perceived then you would see that we are predetermined to act out a destiny. Destiny would only be undermined by the instance of Paradoxes, where a path your suppose to naturally take is artificially manipulated for you. Such alterations in a universe would greatly be studied by the perpitrators, who would be likely to be as described in both the "Labrat" and "Citizen" statements and not necessarily from "our time" or "universe" (paradoxes permitting).

The "Starlet", you speak of *star children* on occasion but don't necessary comprehend the star that could be born. People that are abducted can tell their stories, there stories are either turned into films or books, and notibly become apart of all the stories that are out there in the world about such abductions occuring. Hollywood at one point suffered a blight where the script writers were running out of material, with such continued abductions and people pointing fingers any movie with an alien in it is bound to draw a crowd, so the potential is the abductions are manufactured to bloat movie sales.
(A question you could ask here to work out any similarities is, "Was there an increase in the sale of H.G. Wells book 'War of the Worlds' after the radio broadcast of Orson Welles adaption of the same title in 1938"?)


I mention these four main potentials, because this is the way that I see things panning out and the path I know all too well. Especially the latter as it would tie in with why there is secrecy maintained about particular past events, for the purpose of potentially protecting things done in the future from not being done again. (since some people will be against keeping a singular timeline and be more up for diversity).

[Edit]
Btw, my suggestion why men do this and not aliens is very simple.
Our planet exists in a universe we know not the size or shape of in detail. We do not even know *if* other planets are populated let alone where they reside and even with our technological increasements I doubt there will be a quick answer to the question of "Is life elsewhere in the universe?".

This means to me that we are more likely as a species to fold time and interact with ourselves in the past, than find another planet in the vicinity that we can travel to and I suggest this would be the same of any alien race and their home planet.

 

[Jocariah]

Seems like a plausible hypothesis to me, Stryderunknown.

My perception of the phenomena however is based on my interactions with what some may call aliens, and the programming – on a variety of subjects – I received at their hands. Of course, nothing says these perceptions, teachings and the like are in fact correct, accurate or true in anyway.

But again, I, like all people, am a product of my genetic tendencies and environmental influences experienced – at whose hands, as in my case, who can say with any certainty.

Cheers

 

[Jocariah]

I don’t necessarily believe my understanding of these phenomena to be correct. However it is my understanding. And of course I don’t necessarily believe them to incorrect either. They are my experiences, however they came to me, they are no less, my own. I have long since abandoned trying to make sense of them, for they exist, for the most part, outside of normal reason.

I have accepted them as being a part of who I am.

We all exist within the bounds of our ‘intellectual ceiling’, and therefore those things existing outside of our ability to reason, can be perceived as nonsense. But, if history has taught us anything, it is that one age’s nonsense, is another’s reality.

Things change and are made manifest over time. Our problem, if one might wish to call it that, is that our time, in the broader sense, is very limited.

"Time has its own way of distilling all things to their essence - and to washing away if no substance exists. Only time."

Cheers

.

 

[Jocariah]

Experiencing vs. Intellectualizing

In ‘Experiencing (or the living out) vs. Intellectualizing’, one could ponder a matter at great length and not receive the insight that the living out or experiencing provides. Contemplate at great length on terminal velocity, air resistance, rate of decent and the like, but nothing can take the place of experiencing a skydive. And nothing else comes close, not fast cars, roller coasters or even jumping off of a rooftop.

Skydiving is skydiving. You can’t justify the experience through intellectualizing.

And the experience that takes place in and through all of the senses of the body cannot be replicated though the intellectualizing of the matter. Furthermore, there is an aspect that takes place within the body, the learning of a matter through the experiencing of it.

Read about abductions all you want, talk about the phenomena all you want – nothing can come close to the living out of the matter – nothing.

The point herein is that the abduction experience forces you to evaluate all things in a different light. Being introduced to creatures of a higher order, not being of any known species, forces you to abandon all prior knowledge of the world that you, up to that point in time, have known. Not by choice mind you, nor convenience, but rather by necessity.

Add to that all of the programming we have received at the hands of those beings and you end up with something that cannot be easily understood, nor easily explained for that matter.

It is often said that musicians have their own language – then how much more so, do abductees.

People fear what they don’t know or don’t understand – abductees included. Who am I to try to educate the ignorant?

Cheers

.

 

[phlogistician]

You haven't shared anything with me: I don't relate to your "experience". And I know damn well you wouldn't with mine. Not many here would. In fact, I share in private discussion boards not accessible to the general mob. We like to strip naked in private.

Proving it's exactly as I said, your experience wouldn't stand scrutiny, you're in love with the idea that for some reason you are special and aliens choose you to abduct over others, and you don't want your pet theory explaining away.

Still not going to discuss that link?

 

[zonabi]

Jocariah

i am glad you are willing to stand here and say what you say.

i, for one, can see even in your words that you do, in fact, see the world differently now. I see the world different too, even if i have not been part of abductions or have not realized anything of that nature occuring to me.

see, intellectualizing can in fact open one's eyes, and begin the quest for that knowledge that is so controversial. i know this doesnt amount to the entire experience, but at least its a way for those who arent chosen to come to grips with what is happening.

the problems is that alot of efforts to Debunk and Deface the UFO phenomena (and Alien phenomena) have resulted in alot of disinformation out on the subjects, hence why i want to present questions to genuine abductees:

Jocariah, you are cognizant of the abductions, have you any reason why ? howcome you are able to remember the abductions consciously, when most people only record it in their subconscious ?

have they explained anything to you, that you can relay to us ? do they even communicate with you at all ?

these are types of questions that can begin an understanding.

thanks
z

 

[phlogistician]

Read about abductions all you want, talk about the phenomena all you want – nothing can come close to the living out of the matter – nothing.

So, comment on the thread where I had an abduction experience. It was as real an experience as anyone has _ever_ experienced I'll wager.

But _nobody_ seems to want to discuss that. Closed minds? Not just on the anti side it would appear. If you want any experience to have credibility, you habe to dissect them all, not ignore that which doesn't fit.

 

[an>roid.v2]

Stryderunknown:

Your Labrat, Citizen, and Starlet scenarios are plausible and such psychological manipulations wouldn't surprise me in the least -- knowing all about man's corruptive and ruthless nature. As to the Paradoxical Extensionists... well, how could that be any more fantastic than alien-led scenarios? I mean, we've got a ship that's about to orbit Venus, I mean Saturn, a couple that are tinkering on Mars, two that are crawling at the edge of the Solar System (the Pioneer missions)... now imagine if these were launched many hundreds of centuries in the future, aiming to "study" a distant civilization rather than ascertaining whether or not water was ever present there...

Besides (with the exception of the paradoxical), the above scenarios would entail great financing and time-consuming vigilance... not to mention the paperwork! An alien-led project scenario, on the other hand, not only occurs over the stretch span of an abductee's entire lifetime (and often across generations), but, most importantly, manifests itself in the most intimate of ways.

However, what I can accept, is government-led projects being launched vis-a-vis known abductees. That, I would imagine, is within modern man's abilities, I mean grasp -- and vital interests!

 

[Jocariah]

Jocariah

i am glad you are willing to stand here and say what you say.

i, for one, can see even in your words that you do, in fact, see the world differently now. I see the world different too, even if i have not been part of abductions or have not realized anything of that nature occuring to me.

see, intellectualizing can in fact open one's eyes, and begin the quest for that knowledge that is so controversial. i know this doesnt amount to the entire experience, but at least its a way for those who arent chosen to come to grips with what is happening.

the problems is that alot of efforts to Debunk and Deface the UFO phenomena (and Alien phenomena) have resulted in alot of disinformation out on the subjects, hence why i want to present questions to genuine abductees:

Jocariah, you are cognizant of the abductions, have you any reason why ? howcome you are able to remember the abductions consciously, when most people only record it in their subconscious ?

have they explained anything to you, that you can relay to us ? do they even communicate with you at all ?

these are types of questions that can begin an understanding.

thanks
z

Hello zonabi,

Thanks for bringing this up in an open forum. I fully support those that are willing to debunk the UFO phenomena – from my perspective, it adds a balance to the discussion, and allows all of us (those abductees such as me) to see perspectives other than our own. You see, I know my perspective, I’ve lived through it all of my life, but those perspectives other than my own, can help me see the other side of the coin, if you will.

With all due respect, I am here, in this forum, for my own benefit, not necessarily to answer questions as some sort of specimen, being held in exhibition. As you know, this is a complex, complicated and diverse subject matter, not easily summarized or quantified for that matter.

Nevertheless, as you wish:

(Q.) “Jocariah, you are cognizant of the abductions, have you any reason why?”

(A.)Because they want to be.

(Q.) “How come you are able to remember the abductions consciously, when most people only record it in their subconscious?

(A.) Again, because it was their will – it serves some purpose, whether known to me or not. I don not know why, and am unwilling to surmise.

(Q.) Have they explained anything to you, which you can relay to us? Do they even communicate with you at all?

(A.) They have communicated (I have been programmed with) an enormous amount of information over the years on diverse subjects. It is important to understand that I “do not” necessarily believe, or disbelieve for that matter, the information provided to me. It may or may not be correct or relevant in any way to my existence here at this time. Their motivations for programming me in this way, are their own, and remain unknown to my conscious mind at this point. Even if they told me the underlying reason behind their activities in my life, it would be received as information by me, which I would neither believe nor disbelieve, but rather remain neutral about. I would acknowledge it as information received, and then remain neutral as to its correctness or applicability to my life as it now exists.

I have been programmed with an enormous amount of information that apparently (from my limited perspective) has little if any relevance to my life up to this point in time.

Of course it serves some purpose, otherwise, why do it.

Cheers

 

[phlogistician]

Care to share some of the information you have been programmed with Jocariah? Some samples, not all of, naturally, that would take too long. Although I presume you have transcribed it all, and not just left it to memory?

 

[zonabi]

(Q.) Have they explained anything to you, which you can relay to us? Do they even communicate with you at all?

(A.) They have communicated (I have been programmed with) an enormous amount of information over the years on diverse subjects. It is important to understand that I “do not” necessarily believe, or disbelieve for that matter, the information provided to me. It may or may not be correct or relevant in any way to my existence here at this time. Their motivations for programming me in this way, are their own, and remain unknown to my conscious mind at this point. Even if they told me the underlying reason behind their activities in my life, it would be received as information by me, which I would neither believe nor disbelieve, but rather remain neutral about. I would acknowledge it as information received, and then remain neutral as to its correctness or applicability to my life as it now exists.

that is very interesting indeed!
i have heard before something of this nature- the abductee firmly states that information is given, but not in any normal form of human communication (meaning verbal etc) but rather something quite similar to downloading, where the information just arrives. this person explained that the Greys would show her the information as concepts and symbols in her thoughts, such as spheres and triangles performing actions; BUT- what is different from this story and yours is THIS::- she would acknowledge it if she understood it or dissaprove the message if she didnt understand it, and if she DIDNT, they would "give it another go" or try again, perhaps with different symbols or a different approach, until the message is relayed successfully...

now, im not sure exactly how your situation is, but i want to say; why dont you try to approve/dissaprove a message and see how they react ?

my next question should be obvious:

- do YOU ever try to communicate with them ? if so, what happens ?

- can u please describe in better detail how the information is 'programmed' into you, if at all possible ?

- can u state, for the record, what the abductors look like, with as much detail as possible ?

-----
i realize this seems like an interrogation, and I dont mean to impose at all- you understand. and im sure you know that this is for the better for all of us.
of course you dont have to answer anything, yet you knew that already.
-----

stryder, your theories aren't the first time i've heard such accusations, surprisingly. it has been rumored that gov'ts may 'fake' abduction experiences using very sensitive electromagnetic technologies (such as holography) that are fairly new (and secret). and i wouldnt be surprised if they (gov't) was actually doing this, faking Alien abductions to give them a bad name. the military has been lying about the Alien phenomena since the very beggining, so its nothing new- they want people to be scared of Aliens so that we will 'trust' our gov'ts and military to 'save' us from the 'alien threat'.

but- if THIS IS TRUE, i think it ONLY accounts for some of the supposed abductions.

theres also the fact that some people may see military personel for split seconds during the abduction experience- could this be the holographic equipment faulting ? or is it mental projections ?

we know that the Greys may very well have the ability to shapeshift, and use our own memories to project an image, perhaps even project themselves as human, in some cases.

so, it is a very twisted scenario we have on our hands, and answers are arriving, slowly but surely.

z

 

[Jocariah]

Care to share some of the information you have been programmed with Jocariah? Some samples, not all of, naturally, that would take too long. Although I presume you have transcribed it all, and not just left it to memory?

I have been writing out the information over the course of the last 12 years or so. I save it to the point that I understand it (rather like a lesson which is to be learned) as best I am able and then discard it.

I have been programmed with an enormous amount of information over the years, for the most part subconsciously. The process by which that happened was an interesting one – a montage of information feed directly into the subconscious. Within the information, with which I was programmed, was an understanding of how the subconscious mind relates to the higher self as well as the conscious mind. They are familiar with the workings of the subconscious.

I was also altered genetically, as well as being programmed subconsciously.

From my perspective, the information followed along the lines of the subconscious mind, astrophysics (gravity and the basic fabric of space), and genetics, as it relates to behavioral tendencies. Naturally, this information was not along traditional lines or current understandings such as they are, but rather an understanding of the subjects according to my interactions with those subjects, that is to say, taking into account that I am a programmed, genetically-altered abductee.

Often when I write about these topics the information seems to pour out of me. Coming forth from my subconscious into my conscious mind, or simply from my subconscious onto the page or keyboard as the case may be. If the later, I then read it as if for the first time – although it feels somewhat familiar as I go about reading it.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[Jocariah]

Hello again zonabi,

Q.- do YOU ever try to communicate with them ? if so, what happens ?

A. No, never - they tell me what they want me to know - if I have questions they, so as to make me feel I am taking part in a give-and-take interaction - it never really is though, place them there. It is a 'closed-loop' relationship all the way. It’s all, at all times – always, about them.

Q.- can u please describe in better detail how the information is 'programmed' into you, if at all possible ?

A. A montage of images and information feed into my subconscious while in their care.

Q.- can u state, for the record, what the abductors look like, with as much detail as possible ?

A. 'For the Record’? … Well, they are all different (as they appeared to me). Grays are prevalent though. When I was a kid I called them monkey hands, because their hands looked like those of a monkey to me. They called me Zo-Har, for some reason.

There again, my experiences may not be indicative of other abductees, although I think there is a possibility for there being numerous similarities among abductees.

cheers

 

[Jocariah]

As I reread the last post, I realized that Zo-Har may be a descriptive term to identify a certain class or types of abductees, rather than my name, that is to say rather than a name specific to me alone; or possibly a clan, or subgroup of some type for that matter.

 

[Jocariah]

A Higher Form of Self-Awareness.

Simply because we can’t seem to imagine how things are, does not mean we ought to automatically rule them out … our imaginings may merely be lacking.

Our thought process, that process by which we think, can go about to limit our understanding of the world in which we find ourselves. We bring our belief systems, right or wrong, with us in their entirety, as we look at whatever it is we are looking at – thereby do we judge that which we are seeing.

This process that all of us exhibit is neither good nor bad - it simply is. That is to say, it exists in each of us as we go about our lives.

This is a marvelous biological machine that we inhabit. We, for the most part, know very little about the way in which it functions.

The point being, we are at the mercy of our ‘own’ thought process, whether or not we have consciously chosen that process to which we adhere – nevertheless it is our own. Either way we are subject to it - limited by it, and ultimately relegated to be submissive to it.

We see the world not as it is, but rather as a result of out thought process, that process by which we think. We are blinded by our own thought process – thinking that our way of seeing (i.e., perceiving the world) is in actuality, the way in which things truly are. We Never take into account that our thought process colors every single thing we see. Our belief systems, whether consciously chosen or not, are present at every turn, at every moment of our lives – continually lying in wait to sort out what it is we are seeing according to pre-established parameters.

But what parameters? Those parameters established by our own belief systems.

We think, automatically that is, that the information this process of ours cranks out is the way it actually is, that is to say it is how the world around us really exists. After all it is our thought process that provides the information, which we process, and in turn use to evaluate our world.

It never enters our mind that our very thought process is individually and uniquely our own. That our thought process is the result of our genetic tendencies, environmental influences and experiences, as well as decisions made both consciously, and subconsciously.

Whether or not we are bound by these thought processes and belief systems of ours, is not the point; rather it is that they indeed exist within each one of us.

Our salvation therefore comes merely in the knowing.

There is and remains a way of seeing, of discerning those things that appear before us. Coming to anything that lies before us with an open mind, a mind devoid of any preconceived notions whatsoever is the only way to discern those things of significance.

Those questions that we have, or rather those answers that we seek, are available to us through the tearing down, the putting aside of what it is that we know or have known in the past. For you see, our past acts to limit us by framing what it is that we are seeing “now”, in the present. By so doing, that is by coming to what it is that we are seeing devoid of preconceptions, or any preconceived notions whatsoever, we allow those things sought, to reveal themselves to us.

There again, our responsibility in this endeavor is simply to come to what it is that we seek with an open mind, that is a mind devoid of any preconceived notions, or ideas whatsoever. So that by knowing our inherent tendencies we are then better able to see what it is that we, individually, bring to the table each and every time we look at whatever it is that we are looking at.

And thereby do we exist within a higher form of self-awareness.

 

[phlogistician]

I have been programmed with an enormous amount of information over the years, for the most part subconsciously.

Could you be specific? Write the information down on sciforums as accurately as you can? Preferably the stuff about physics, as that's my background.

I was also altered genetically, as well as being programmed subconsciously.

How do you know this? A feeling? Told by the aliens? Or medical proof?

[/QUOTE]

 

[Jocariah]

Could you be specific? Write the information down on sciforums as accurately as you can? Preferably the stuff about physics, as that's my background.




How do you know this? A feeling? Told by the aliens? Or medical proof?

Hello again phlogistician,

Astrophysics is my least favorite topic of all, I personally have no interest in it whatsoever. However I do recall the information I was given on gravity, as it was so extensive.

Everything I know pertaining to my above posts I was programmed with. I don't seek any kind of proof on anything. I simply see it as information that I have. There again, I have been programmed with information that may or may not be correct. Either way, it is of no concern to me - I am what I am. I have no need, nor desire to prove any of the information I have, and tend to talk about only those things that interest me at the time.

Again, if some one were to prove this information that I have to be wrong – so be it. I don’t have a vested interest in proving it to be right or true in any way.

However as I recall, gravity, is actually the effect of the consumption of energy (a rotating mass consumes energy) rather than a force in and of itself, gravity is the effect of an action taking place. All of space, or the fabric that space is (i.e., the apparently empty part), is in actuality a universal energy grid if you will, that contains everything – all elements. This empty appearing space actually contains everything - things are created by the taking away to reveal, rather than 'by the adding to'.

Gravity is the effect felt by the consumption of energy by a rotating mass. The energy is being consumed from the fabric of space (the grid or matrix). The rotating mass is continually removing energy from the grid, or fabric of space (this fabric contains everything - although, not apparently so).

The example I was given was watching a quarter fall to the floor after being tossed from my hand. The reason it fell to the floor was not because it was being pulled to the floor (by gravity), but rather there was something missing under the quarter that caused it to be pushed to the floor. What was missing? Universal energy, the energy that is everywhere in space (in, or within the apparently empty part of space). This missing energy was being consumed by the rotating mass, which I was standing on – the earth.

The example that comes to mind is white light - to create blue light, you do not color white lite blue, but rather take away all of the other colors but blue. So that you create blue light by the 'taking away' of all of the other colors in the spectrum. It simply appears that you are ‘coloring’ the white light blue.

Of course, this topic can’t be discussed or adequately represented with only four short paragraphs. And I am not familiar with the topic in any other way, other than what I was taught at the hands of my Keepers, those gray beings that all abductees have. That is meant to say I have not read, studied or been instructed in astrophysics in any way, (i.e., in the traditional sense), and I am thoroughly unfamiliar with existing concepts, theories, or the parlance or use of language of this field (every field has its own language and agreed upon foundational concepts) – I have none of that. But, having said all of that, it may be that something larger may unfold for me through a discussion of what information I have acquired through being programmed.

There again, I am not interested in arguing the merits or validity of this information (because I don't know, or care if it's correct or not), however, I may be interested in clarifying the information I have (which is vast), so as to further explore what I have been given.

cheers

..

 

[phlogistician]

Jocariah, as current physics stands, yes that information is bogus. Gravity is a force caused by, and felt by objects that have mass. They do not need to rotate to create gravity and rotating object doesn't use energy, it will rotate for exactly the opposite reason, because it isn't losing any.

The vaccum of space being an 'energy grid' and 'taking away to reveal' sounds like a clumsy interpretation of Paul Dirac's 'Electron Sea' theory, which is an entertaining idea;

http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/d/di/dirac_sea.html

So, the question is, why would aliens program you with bogus physics, or if it isn't bogus, and will be proven to have some validity in time, program it into someone who doesn't understand it?

It's no use to you if somebody validates a theory you half understand and have never published. Post-facto, the potential to use any 'downloaded' info as evidence of alien life is lost.

Anyway, more excerpts from your downloads please.

 

[Jocariah]

Sorry phlogistician - I was still editing my thoughts as you posted.

cheers

 

[Jocariah]

phlogistician

RE: " ....So, the question is, why would aliens program you with bogus physics, or if it isn't bogus, and will be proven to have some validity in time, program it into someone who doesn't understand it?

It's no use to you if somebody validates a theory you half understand and have never published. Post-facto, the potential to use any 'downloaded' info as evidence of alien life is lost."

Exactly right - why indeed? As I have said, I have little interest in any of it. ([EDIT]... upon reflection, that is not exactly true - I am interested with what is in front of me at any given point in time (regardless of the subject matter or topic) - but overall, I don't seek out information on astrophysics, nor attempt to learn about it on my own accord .)

That having been said, phlogistician, please feel free to critique, disprove or confirm, for that matter, (as you might see fit) any thing I may write on the topic. For it is of interest to me how my words may compare to existing (widely-held, universally accepted) doctrine, concepts or theorem on the subject.

cheers