Questions on atheist morality

[Enmos]

Uh no, it is belief in God that creates society. As soon as a society starts becoming less religious, first, the family starts breaking up, followed by the community and then the society. Everything becomes about the individual.

No it's not. The rules create society. God just keeps people from straying.

 

[Clown]

There are some atheists who do not believe in God because of all the pain and suffering in the world. They point out to the evils of religion such as child abuse and the death of innocents.

Are you claiming that there are atheists just as naive and emotionally driven, as theists are?
I'll be damned.
I always thought reasoning and honesty drew one to rejecting superfluous entities which we call atheism.

However, IMO, notions of good and bad, right and wrong are based in religion.

What does religion say about thinking you are wrong, rather than right, in this case?
I would hate to be immoral.

It's almost remarkable that animals don't kill each other off, without our religiuos grace.
I saw a cat that had adopted a puppy once on T.V. It but have been due to a feline epiphany.
God work in mysterious ways.
He lets dogs die, like dogs, but then saves one for the cat's enlightenment.

In a nonreligious universe, there is no judgment, there is only opinion and personal values.

I would think that dying is the highest of nature's judgments.

Which means that for an atheist, there should exist no notions of abuse or suffering or wrongdoing with regard to others, only natural selection and need-driven actions of the self and those related to self.

Is the need to believe in comforting delusions, based on childish fairytales and traditions, and nothing else besides, also part of these needs?
Is the need to justify an absurdity so that you can continue living in ignorant bliss, also not a need?
I'm confused.

Most if not all atheists ground their moral concepts in the good of the individual.

Is not the belief in God, 'good for the individual'?
I'm shattered. What sacrifices you believers must endure.

This "good" itself is utilitarian (actions are only good which act as instruments to produce personal pleasure or satisfaction, along with health and the extension of life). Furthermore, what counts as "evil" or "bad" are those things that harm personal pleasure and health, and go against our "instinct of self-preservation".

I'm assuming that there's another definition for good and evil, better than that one.

How about this one:
What's good for the group, is only considered so, when it is also good for the individual.

So applying this morality to society, if an atheist finds personal pleasure and satisfaction in say, abusing a child, should there be a moral objection from their moral perspective?

I don't know...what if God told him to do it?

Put it to you this way:
Will he get caught?

 

[Myles]

Religion makes people live together, gives guidelines about how they should treat each other, gives rules for a healthy society. Ideas about incest, rape, torture, murder are derived from religious teachings about what is not good for human society. Ideas about the rightness of charity, sacrifice, treating the stranger as a guest (rather than shooting him on sight) and a necessity of freedom from greed, envy, sloth, jealousy, etc are also derived from religion. Animals may have all these notions but they do not have the moral values that religion ascribes to them.

What has that to do with atheists always calling theists names ?

If there were no religion, societies would create rules so that they would remain cohesive. There is a payoff which has nothing to do with a putative god.You are claiming too much in the name of religion.

 

[Varda]

as far as I see, this discussion is over

 

[Myles]

I second that

 

[S.A.M.]

Yup, its over.

Atheists are not a group and atheism is not about morality and atheists all criticise theists claims but do not all follow the dictionary definition. Good and evil is a religious concept that has no relation to atheism.

 

[Clown]

Yup, its over.

Atheists are not a group and atheism is not about morality and atheists all criticise theists claims but do not all follow the dictionary definition. Good and evil is a religious concept that has no relation to atheism.

Finally, the fat woman has...sung.

 

[spidergoat]

Correct. If that is what you were refuting, I cannot disagree. Atheists are not a group. Atheism is only about one's position on theism. Good and evil are religious concepts.

However, morality is not dependent on religious concepts. One can accept the label of atheism and also be a good person. Good and evil alone do not represent moral thought. Separating people into good and evil based on religious tradition is the source of much violence. People are seldom purely good or evil. Secular humanism is an example of how ethical behavior can originate using logic, reason, and our innate human compassion.

 

[S.A.M.]

Morality is always relative to the group. An individual has no reason for morality.

 

[Clown]

Where do I sing up for the group meeting of those that do not believe in flying saucers?

 

[S.A.M.]

Exactly.

 

[spidergoat]

Morality is always relative to the group. An individual has no reason for morality.

Being an atheist doesn't preclude being a member of another kind of group, a family, a community, a town, city, or country.

 

[Enmos]

Yup, its over.

Atheists are not a group and atheism is not about morality and atheists all criticise theists claims but do not all follow the dictionary definition. Good and evil is a religious concept that has no relation to atheism.

Finally.

 

[S.A.M.]

Being an atheist doesn't preclude being a member of another kind of group, a family, a community, a town, city, or country.

But does it help create it?

What are the occasions which unite not just family, but also community, town, society or country or countries?

 

[spidergoat]

No atheism is just a philosphical position on theism. That doesn't mean atheists cannot act out of motivations other than religion.

Occaisions I can think of would be growing and harvesting food, fighting fires, building structures like barns and roads, having fun at a party.

 

[Clown]

But does it help create it?

What are the occasions which unite not just family, but also community, town, society or country or countries?

How about common self-interests and needs?

I cannot hope to include myself in such an esteemed group, as you all are, but I'm hoping my need for inclusion will be enough.

Isn't S.A.M. special?

 

[Varda]

But does it help create it?

What are the occasions which unite not just family, but also community, town, society or country or countries?

oktoberfest

 

[S.A.M.]

I cannot hope to include myself in such an esteemed group, as you all are, but I'm hoping my need for inclusion will be enough.

Why do you have a need for inclusion in a group you reject?

 

[Varda]

i think he was beign sarcastic

 

[S.A.M.]

i think he was beign sarcastic

Maybe he should read this

Religious surge in once-atheist China surprises leaders