Questions about Islam!

[Green_World]

Originally posted by williamwbishop
Does allah not care for the compassionate? Please think prior to posting.

Women's breasts are important sexual objects:

The Bible in numerous places teaches us about women's breasts and talks about them at the same time it is talking about sexual fantasies and intercourse.

Comparing the sister's breasts to the size of the towers: Let us look at the following verses: "We have a young sister, and her breasts are not yet grown. What shall we do for our sister for the day she is spoken for? (Song of Songs 8:8)" and later about the sister....."I am a wall, and my breasts are like towers. Thus I have become in his eyes like one bringing contentment. (Song of Songs 8:10)"

Let us look at Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."

Let us look at Proverbs 5:19 "A loving doe, a graceful deer, may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love." Could it be meant to say "may her breasts sexually satisfy you"?

Let us look at Song of Songs 1:13 "My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts."

Praising the bed that they had sex on: Let us look at Song of Songs 1:16 "How handsome you are, my lover! Oh, how charming! And our bed is verdant"

Having sex all night long: Let us look at Proverbs 7:18 "Come, let's drink deep of love till morning; let's enjoy ourselves with love!"

Let us look at Song of Songs 1:2-4 "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love more than wine. How right they are to adore you! " I don't think this would be appropriate for a kid under 18 to read. Also, I don't think it is appropriate to have such open sexuality in a divine book anyway.

His right arm sexually feeling her body: Let us look at Song of Songs 2:6 "His left arm is under my head, and his right arm embraces me."

Let us look at Song of Songs 3:4 "Scarcely had I passed them when I found the one my heart loves. I held him and would not let him go till I had brought him to my mother's house, to the room of the one who conceived me." So in other words, she was not married to him, and when she found him, she took him back to her bed room to have illegal sex with him? If she were married to him, she wouldn't take him to her "mother's house". She would take him to their house.

Let us look at Song of Songs 3:10 "Its posts he made of silver, its base of gold. Its seat was upholstered with purple, its interior lovingly inlaid by the daughters of Jerusalem." Why does the Bible teach young men to spend all of their time and effort to try to impress all of the girls in their town so they can possibly end in bed with them?



Fantasizing about a girl he calls his "sister". Her vagina tastes like wine for him. And they had sex all night long. After he satisfied her really good, she wished if he were her brother (her biological brother nursed by her "mother's breast" as she said) so she doesn't have to take him home secretly:

Note: Even though she may not be his biological sister, but calling her a "sister" in a pornographic and sick situation as shown in details below is not proper, and may suggest that the sick pervert would fantasize about his biological sister if he had one, especially after knowing that Sarah (Isaac's mother) was Abraham's biological sister in the Bible.

Let us look at Song of Songs 4:9 "You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace." Fantasizing about his sister? at least he shows in this verse that he would!.

Let us look at Song of Songs 4:10 "How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!" Making love to his own sister? "pleasing is your love (making???) than wine"?

Let us look at Song of Songs 4:12 "You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride; you are a spring enclosed, a sealed fountain."

Sleeping with his sister: Let us look at Song of Songs 5:4 "I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My lover is knocking: 'Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night.' I have taken off my robe [showed off his groin in other words] must I put it on again? I have washed my feet, must I soil them again? My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him." What a disgusting way for someone to talk so pervertly about his sister like that!!.

Let us look at Song of Songs 5:8 "O daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you-- if you find my lover, what will you tell him? Tell him I am faint with love." Teaching women to be sexually too open.

Her vagina tastes like wine: "How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.
.......
I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine. (The NIV Bible, Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)"

According to the movie "Sex in the Bible" on A&E TV Station, the Hebrew translation to "Your naval" is referring to the woman's VAGINA. The English translators substituted the word "NAVEL" WITH "VAGINA." Please rent a copy of the movie and watch it. This was sent to me by my dear brother in Islam Mike who embraced Islam just recently; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

Further proofs from Jim; a non-Muslim guy who tried to prove that I was not accurate about the translation of the word "Naval" in this Porn-full verse. He sent the following to the Christian "Answering Islam" team:

"Mr. Abdallah seems to have done little homework in this matter, since his whole analysis seems to stem from someone named Mike. Here is actually what this video says:

The word navel and the umbilical cord both come from the woman's vagina since this is a natural part of childbirth."

So Mr. Jim, what exactly did you disprove here? Whether "Naval" accurately means "vagina" or something inside the vagina it wouldn't make much difference. You just further proved how porn-full and disgusting the bible really is.

Please answer this question for me:

Why should vaginas and illegal sex done by unmarried lovers be talked about in a sexual fantasy in the book that is supposed to be the True Living Words of GOD Almighty from the first place?

 

[sycoindian]

---I provided a link, what did you provide ? rants.---

your link didn't substantiate your argument at all... all it did was prove that there are more boys born than girls... what if that ratio was overturned? what then? would the laws of Quran still be applicable... and plz refrain from makin such ridiculously stupid statements and retort with logical arguments...

---In some Ignorant muslim societies, YES it does.----

so you do agree that there are ignorant muslim societies... and you claim that you are better than them?

---The problem with women marrying more than one is the emotional difficulties in establishing WHO is the father, something very common in the ADULTUROUS world of the west. ---

have you ever heard of DNA testing? women could easily find out who the father was.... and have u ever lived in the west? if not, quit makin assumptions about the sexual lifestyle of ppl there...

also i mentioned in my last post.. im not interested in who is the president and what not... im talkin from a social perspective... a woman might be a president, that doesn't necessarily reflect on the social status of women in the country except from a political stand point...

---It is VERY embarrassing question for you, so admit it.---

how is it embarassin for me? as i said, i dont give a damm about the american political system...

---I did not say that, what I said is that ISLAM recognize and RESPECT and GLORIFY the religions before it, but other religions does not even recognize Islam, so why on earth our PURE women should marry men from other unrespectful faiths ??---

that's not true.. muslims dont recognize the Bahai' Faith as a religion.. what does purity have to do anything with religious beliefs? just cuz someone doesn't recognize islam doesnt mean they're not PURE... what kinda logic is that?

---What do you mean social taboos ?? ----

---ever heared of the rudda (converting out of islam ) punishment ? getting killed if im not mistaken? do you know what will happen to you if you dared to criticize islamic shit in an islamic country?---- (posted by blackstone)

---Where are you from ? are you indian ?---

im from antarctica... what the hell difference does it make??

also from your last post... can you not bring the bible in this discussion... we are not trynna have the bible vs quran here...
Prophet Mohammed recognized Christ and his teachings, so if you can't stand that quote that u mentioned about sexuality, then you are goin against your Prophet's words... right?? if everything you believe He said is true, then why question the bible?? it has to be true cuz He said its true... wat u say?

 

[Green_World]

Originally posted by Blackstone
I assure you that i will be justful between my harem..now, get me my 4 wives please.
thats what happen, polygamy is allowed, polygamy happens everyday..get over it...
================================

Polygamy is allowed in Islam NO on deny that, but it does NOT happen everyday for very simple reason: MOST OF THE MULIMS ARE POOR FINACIALY, THEY CANT AFFORD TO MARRY FOUR...SO STOP PROMOTING YOUR LIE.......

==================================

now we'll go into the famouse excuse that marx posted : this verse is the solution when women are more than men....If you argue for the necessity of polygamy due to imbalance of the sexes (however this might have come about), are you willing to allow several husbands for a woman in those societies or circumstances where the balance is tilted the other way? If not, then this shows that "ratios" never was the true reason.
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The number of men will NEVER exceed the number of women, I provided a link in earlier post regarding this balance, and here again I am provising MORE links:

China thrown off balance as boys outnumber girls:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/06/19/china-usat.htm

WHERE HAVE ALL THE BOYS GONE?

http://www.chem.unep.ch/pops/POPs_Inc/press_releases/sciamer1.htm

============================

thanks for the annoucment, sadly though i was a sunni muslim, im quite entertained how you said it as a fact: "I like to say Mr/Mrs Blackstone is not muslim to be exact never was a muslim"

do you know me? do i know you? it gets me how muslims are having a hard time accepting the fact that there are people who convert out of islam....heh..anyway.
==================================

You are a LIAR, it is an old christian messionary TRICK.

Anyway, even if you were convert out of Islam, the number of convert INTO islam is FAR more than the ones who are 'allegdly' leaving.

I am here to REFUTE your lies ONE by ONE and in front of every one here, so be prepared MR.MESSIONARY !
===========================

maybe when you guys learn to leave us (kafirs, non muslims in general) the fuck alone we will have some respect for you.
===============================

G W : you need to leave us alone, if you dont like Islam, then why the FUCK you are here in this thread, get the hell out of here and go play somewhere else.

==============================

ever heared of the rudda (converting out of islam ) punishment ? getting killed if im not mistaken? do you know what will happen to you if you dared to criticize islamic shit in an islamic country?

*sigh*...the islamic hypocricy. [/B]

=====================================

G W: let us read again what you wrote: getting killed if im not mistaken ?? is that the answer of someone who claim to be sunni muslim and knows Islam well ???

FILTHY LIAR.

 

[Green_World]

Originally posted by sycoindian
---I provided a link, what did you provide ? rants.---

your link didn't substantiate your argument at all... all it did was prove that there are more boys born than girls... what if that ratio was overturned? what then? would the laws of Quran still be applicable... and plz refrain from makin such ridiculously stupid statements and retort with logical arguments...
=======================================
G W:

You DID not provide any links to support your lies, if you want to be more credible then provide some links.

====================================

---In some Ignorant muslim societies, YES it does.----

so you do agree that there are ignorant muslim societies... and you claim that you are better than them?
===================================

Yes I agree that there are ignorant Muslim societies as there are ignorant christian societies and terrorist jewish society called Israel.

I dont claim I am better than them, I am just more fortunate to be highly educated with master degree from England.

My travels in the west enables me to have excellent pictures about the western societies which help me so much in refuting their misconceptions about the great religion of Islam.

===================================

---The problem with women marrying more than one is the emotional difficulties in establishing WHO is the father, something very common in the ADULTUROUS world of the west. ---

have you ever heard of DNA testing? women could easily find out who the father was.... and have u ever lived in the west? if not, quit makin assumptions about the sexual lifestyle of ppl there...
======================================
I used the word EMOTIONAL, I know about the DNA, but how this poor ADULTEROUS woman will feel about that?

Is that the freedom you gave to your women in the west ? to not be able to find who's the father of her baby ?? do you call this freedom ???????????????????????

Yes, I lived in the west for many long years, I know your societies VERY well.

=============================

also i mentioned in my last post.. im not interested in who is the president and what not... im talkin from a social perspective... a woman might be a president, that doesn't necessarily reflect on the social status of women in the country except from a political stand point...
==============================
G W: How absurd can you be ? are you saying that it is possible to have MUSLIM woman as president and yet have the society oppressing the woman !! what kind of logic is that ???

Social and political perspective are connected, if Muslim women have no rights in pakistan as you would like to claim, then you will not have MUSLIM woman as prime minister.

If the muslim women are oppressed in Indonesia, then you will not have the HEAD OF THE LARGEST MUSLIM COUNTRY IN THE WORLD to be woman.

It is very hard for you guys to accept defeat.
======================================

-It is VERY embarrassing question for you, so admit it.---

how is it embarassin for me? as i said, i dont give a damm about the american political system...
==================================

G W:

It is not the American political system, it is the political as well as social....shall I provide you with links about DOMESTIC VIOLENCE against women in the USA( THE CASTLE OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOM ) !!!!

In the U.K where I used to live, every 4 days one WESTERN woman dies as a result of domestic violence.

In Russia, every 4 minute a woman dies as a result of domestic violence:

Russian Federation: Women and girls victims of human rights abuses (selected case studies)

http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/EUR460052002?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\RUSSIAN+FEDERATION

And the list goes on and on....so stop being HYPOCRITE.
===================================
---I did not say that, what I said is that ISLAM recognize and RESPECT and GLORIFY the religions before it, but other religions does not even recognize Islam, so why on earth our PURE women should marry men from other unrespectful faiths ??---

that's not true.. muslims dont recognize the Bahai' Faith as a religion.. what does purity have to do anything with religious beliefs? just cuz someone doesn't recognize islam doesnt mean they're not PURE... what kinda logic is that?
========================================
G W :

Why you are twisting my words, I used the word PURE to refer to muslim women not to other non-muslims.

The Bahai' is not faith, it is corrupted version of Islam.

I am talking about the big ABRAHAMIC faiths: christianity and judaism.
===================================

---What do you mean social taboos ?? ----

---ever heared of the rudda (converting out of islam ) punishment ? getting killed if im not mistaken? do you know what will happen to you if you dared to criticize islamic shit in an islamic country?---- (posted by blackstone)

---Where are you from ? are you indian ?---

im from antarctica... what the hell difference does it make??

also from your last post... can you not bring the bible in this discussion... we are not trynna have the bible vs quran here...
Prophet Mohammed recognized Christ and his teachings, so if you can't stand that quote that u mentioned about sexuality, then you are goin against your Prophet's words... right?? if everything you believe He said is true, then why question the bible?? it has to be true cuz He said its true... wat u say? [/B]

===================================

The prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) talked about the ORIGINAL bible that got lost not this FALSE one you are using now which promote MAN to be GOD !!

What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth?

http://www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

 

[sycoindian]

eat your own link

Green... the sex ratio link that you gave.. i forgot to post this earlier.. but hey, seems like you dont read your refs too well.. quote from your link..

---Several researchers, however, have reported apparent recent declines in the proportion of male births, in the US, Canada, Denmark and the Netherlands. These declines have been very small but statistically significant. Fewer boys are being born than would be expected on the basis of the recent historical worldwide average.----

http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NewScience/reproduction/sexratio/sexratio.htm

so now... fewer boys are being born... what have you to say about your ratio argument?

 

[sycoindian]

---You DID not provide any links to support your lies, if you want to be more credible then provide some links. ---

im not the one answering the questions... and i haven't made any outrageous claims that need any support... if there is anythin specific, ask me.. and i'll go support it...

---I used the word EMOTIONAL, I know about the DNA, but how this poor ADULTEROUS woman will feel about that?---

how can you claim emotional trauma on that one? have you experienced it? and why would the woman be adulterous? cuz she slept with more than one man (considerin she is married to more than one man).... that would make a man havin more than one wife adulterous too?

---The Bahai' is not faith, it is corrupted version of Islam.---

that is your opinion... right? Bahai's claim that their religion is independent of islam, not a version of it...

---so why on earth our PURE women should marry men from other unrespectful faiths ?---

if you claim that muslim women are 'pure', that means logically that non muslims aren't pure... and u said 'unrespectful faiths'... as if you are very respectful of anyone else's faith... dont preach what you dont practise... for e.g. read your statement

G W : you need to leave us alone, if you dont like Islam, then why the FUCK you are here in this thread, get the hell out of here and go play somewhere else.

real respectful you are...

---The prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) talked about the ORIGINAL bible that got lost not this FALSE one you are using now which promote MAN to be GOD !! ---

oohh yeahh? u've read the so called original bible? if u haven't, ur statement is already false... let me point out to you AGAIN... im not christian... so if you have somethin against the bible and christians, go and discuss that with christians... we're just talkin about islam here...

interestin link you posted at the bottom.... quite biased i have to say... for eg...

---Anything that agrees 100% with Islam is valid, and anything else that has even the slightest disagreement with Islam is discarded:---

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by Blackstone
im egyptian...i live in egypt..its written in my profile...
it seems that this wasent so challenging after all....

Blackstone...My parents are Egyptian...I lived in Alex and Cairo for 12 years...

What can I say...you have a big struggle infront of you...I myself couldn't adjust until I completely left the environment. The environment was standing between me and adjustment.

I'm sorry for not being nice to you before...I had issues.

Try to look at my question below without the self pity element and tell me what your answer:

If everyone around you is a hypocrite, how do you find the truth?

 

[sycoindian]

oooooppss...i just realized that i misunderstood the ratio argument in your link...ehehe.. my mistake...

so we have less boys and more women...
what if there are more boys and less women?

 

[Green_World]

Originally posted by Blackstone
im egyptian...i live in egypt..its written in my profile...
it seems that this wasent so challenging after all....
========================================

So, are you one of those COPTI losers that pretend to be Muslims?

I dont believe you are living in Eygpt, I shall ask the people who run this forum to forward me your IP location..
=================================
and i live in a mid eastern country, there are many polygamy families here, sure, they do not overnumber the one wife families, but they still make quite a big number...
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This is LIE and you know it, specially in MASR and Syria and other arab countries, you know that the majority are ONE WIFE



what is this crap?
poor in wich scale exactly? each country have its own wealth scale, there are poor, moderate, above moderate and rich people..,moderate in each country scale makes the majority...what is rich in my country can be considered poor in your country and vice versia.
in south egypt..even some not-so-wealthy men marry more than one.



good for the chienease men, now what is this supposed to proof in your opinion? if china have more females than males then males can never exceed females ever?

im asking you again: if it happens that males become more than females, are you willing to give women the right to marry more than one man?



you'r a sad person, if you bothered looking at my posts you would have realised that im an athiest, secular..not christian or any other of your stupid religions...you may read my debates about creation,afterlife and atheism in other threads if you dont believe it.




i can write wherever i want...if you are having troubles accepting this fact go fuck yourself.



um...how does that^ makes me a liar exactly? are you denying the rudda punishment for people who convert out of slam in sunna or what? please be more specefic.

 

[Green_World]

Originally posted by Blackstone
im egyptian...i live in egypt..its written in my profile...
it seems that this wasent so challenging after all....
========================================

So, are you one of those COPTI losers that pretend to be Muslims?

I dont believe you are living in Eygpt, I shall ask the people who run this forum to forward me your IP location..
=================================
and i live in a mid eastern country, there are many polygamy families here, sure, they do not overnumber the one wife families, but they still make quite a big number...
===================================

This is LIE and you know it, specially in MASR and Syria and other arab countries, you know that the majority are ONE WIFE FAMILY
SO STOP YOUR LIES....I AM FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

==================================

what is this crap?
poor in wich scale exactly? each country have its own wealth scale, there are poor, moderate, above moderate and rich people..,moderate in each country scale makes the majority...what is rich in my country can be considered poor in your country and vice versia.
in south egypt..even some not-so-wealthy men marry more than one.
==================================

are you stupid or what ? if you are POOR, how can you afford to house 2 wifes+ childern and spend of them ???

You are refering to RARE exceptions MR. COPTI.

===================================

good for the chienease men, now what is this supposed to proof in your opinion? if china have more females than males then males can never exceed females ever?

====================================

My link prove that there is decline in the birth of boys...FACT.

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im asking you again: if it happens that males become more than females, are you willing to give women the right to marry more than one man?
===============================

Until that happen I will be more pleased to it, but NOW we are talking about FACTS. I dont want to speculate about what MIGHT happen in the future. no one knows what will happen tomorrow, you might die tomorrow and end up being kafir in JAHANNM WA BE'SA ALMASIR.
===================================
you'r a sad person, if you bothered looking at my posts you would have realised that im an athiest, secular..not christian or any other of your stupid religions...you may read my debates about creation,afterlife and atheism in other threads if you dont believe it.

==================================

OK, fair enough.

================================

i can write wherever i want...if you are having troubles accepting this fact go fuck yourself.

=====================================

Or why you dont go and FUCK your ignorance and your blindness
you pathetic kafir who will surely end up in eternal hell fire.
at the day of judgment, you will wish you were DUST....you will see by your own eyes the hell fire...

41. Fussilat:
And (remember) the Day that the enemies of Allâh will be gathered to the Fire, so they will be collected there (the first and the last).
20.
Till, when they reach it (Hell-fire), their hearing (ears) and their eyes, and their skins will testify against them as to what they used to do.
21.
And they will say to their skins, "Why do you testify against us?" They will say: "Allâh has caused us to speak, as He causes all things to speak, and He created you the first time, and to Him you are made to return."
22.
And you have not been hiding against yourselves, lest your ears, and your eyes, and your skins testify against you, but you thought that Allâh knew not much of what you were doing.
23.
And that thought of yours which you thought about your Lord, has brought you to destruction, and you have become (this Day) of those utterly lost!
24.
Then, if they have patience, yet the Fire will be a home for them, and if they beg for to be excused, yet they are not of those who will ever be excused.

=================================

um...how does that^ makes me a liar exactly? are you denying the rudda punishment for people who convert out of slam in sunna or what? please be more specefic. [/B]

=================================

You claim to be ex-muslim, if so, you should know the punishment for leaving Islam !!!! should not your MR. KAFIR !!

 

[Green_World]

Originally posted by Blackstone


ISLAM ATTRACTS CONVERTS BY THE THOUSANDS,
DRAWN BEFORE AND AFTER ATTACKS

By Jodi Wilgoren, The New York Times


ALLWIN, Mo., Oct. 20 - Since she became a Muslim six months ago, Angela Davis has given up many things. She stopped listening to music, started sleeping on the floor, put away her 100 Disney videos and traded her porcelain doll collection for velvet posters with verses from the Koran.

Now, in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Ms. Davis may have to give up her children.

After her photograph, in full veil, appeared in the local newspaper on Sept. 30, Ms. Davis's soon-to-be-ex-husband refused to return their children, 5 and 2, from a weekend visit. She has not seen them since.

"It's a test that is given to me from Allah to see if my faith is strong enough," said Ms. Davis, 27, who discovered Islam in an Internet chat room this spring and now teaches pre-kindergarten at the Al-Salam Day School in this St. Louis suburb. "I'm asked to give up my religion for my kids, but I won't do it. On Judgment Day, as much as I love my kids, they won't be there with me."

Though her situation is extreme, Ms. Davis is one of thousands of new Muslim converts struggling with their identities amid anti-Muslim fervor and declarations of an Islamic holy war being broadcast on television. Already estranged from relatives and friends, some of whom accuse them of joining a cult, these new Muslims face catcalls and fresh challenges to their faith.

Many say the events of Sept. 11 only confirmed their commitment. Shannon Staloch is not sure why, but upon hearing of the hijackings, she immediately grabbed a book from her backpack and recited the Arabic declaration of belief; she made the conversion official 12 days later.

"You know how the world changed when that happened and everyone was shaky?" Ms. Staloch said. "I wanted something steady."

With some 6 million adherents in the United States, Islam is said to be the nation's fastest-growing religion, fueled by immigration, high birth rates and widespread conversion. One expert estimates that 25,000 people a year become Muslims in this country; some clerics say they have seen conversion rates quadruple since Sept. 11.

Experts say Islam is attractive because of its universal message - the faithful believe that everyone is born Muslim and thus call the transformation reversion, not conversion - and because its teachings incorporate other traditions, honoring Jesus Christ, the Jewish patriarch Abraham and other Biblical figures as prophets. Though missionary work is rare in Islam, spreading the message is demanded by the Koran. Conversion is as simple as reciting one sentence - "I bear witness that there is no deity except Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger" - in front of witnesses, a ceremony known as Shahadah.

"There's no class," said Khalid Yahya Blankinship, chairman of the religion department at Temple University. "There isn't really a formalized requirement, you don't have to be tested." Mr. Blankinship, who converted to Islam in 1973 and has since witnessed 100 Shahadahs, added: "It's very important that Islam should spread. The idea is that one should want other souls to be saved."

The vast majority of converts are African-Americans, who make up about a third of Muslims in the United States. Thousands find Allah while in jail or in recovery from drug or alcohol addiction. Less familiar are the lapsed Catholics and lost Jews, often highly educated professionals, who come to the mosque.

Many convert because they want to marry a Muslim who demands it, a common reason for conversions in any religion.

"I would never have changed if it wasn't for Rania," David Nerviani, a St. Louis police officer, said of his Egyptian-born wife, a bartender he met on patrol. "It's probably not that deep for me."

Others find Islam through friendships on college campuses, research papers on world religions or trolling the Internet.

Some just feel called. Abdullah Reda of Reston, Va., said the news of Susan Smith, the South Carolina woman who drowned her two sons, brought him to Islam. A 13-year-old California girl had an epiphany during a sunset drive through the red rocks of Arizona. Katie Mathews, a graduate student at Washington University in St. Louis, who plans to make her Shahadah on her 23rd birthday in November, prayed for a sign and soon saw a license plate, "4 ALLAH."

Nine years ago, Jim Hacking was in training to be a Jesuit priest. Now, he is an admiralty lawyer in St. Louis who has spent much of the last month explaining Islam at interfaith gatherings. Mr. Hacking's search began in the 12-step program Overeaters Anonymous and intensified when he befriended an Egyptian-born woman, Amany Ragab, at the law review at St. Louis University. He made the Shahadah on June 6, 1998, and proposed marriage to her the next day. This summer, the couple traveled to Mecca.

"The thing I've always latched to is that there's one God, he doesn't have equals, he doesn't need a son to come do his work," Mr. Hacking, 31, said. "Giving up the pork and the alcohol was the easy part - I never drank much, but I did like bacon. The hard part, and the part I still struggle with every day, is being a good person, and living a good clean life."

To help with the social transition, the All Dulles Area Muslim Society in Sterling, Va., pairs converts with mentors. Other mosques offer seminars in the basics of Arabic prayer. Web sites like jews-for-allah.org and understandingislam.tripod.com provide glossaries to common Muslim expressions, step-by-step guides to ritual washing, interactive games to teach Arabic, and profiles of fellow converts, organized alphabetically, by county of origin and by former religion.

Perhaps the greatest challenge is maintaining family relationships, as parents often view conversion as a betrayal. One Web site offers a how- to guide for telling relatives. "Do not allow them to drag you into a conflict regarding religion at all," it lectures.

Ms. Stolach, who teaches middle- school literacy, said her mother had helped her shop for hijab, the traditional Muslim head covering, but Ms. Mathews says the main reason she has delayed her Shahadah is that she is living with her parents.

"My mom, she's Christian and she's very upset," Ms Mathews said. "I told her about my signs. She said, how do I know it's not the Devil?"

"The Koran says you have to obey your parents, heaven is at the foot of your mother," she added. "I have to obey God before I obey my mother."

On Sept. 11, Ms. Davis's mother exhorted her to remove the hijab, saying it would endanger her grandchildren. (Ms. Davis's divorce lawyer, and her husband, did not return telephone calls.) Ms. Davis, who wears a shoulder-to-ankle robe over her clothes, also faces resistance from her older two daughters, from a previous marriage, whom she enrolled in an Islamic school this fall, but who have lately said they would prefer to live with their father.

As the afternoon call to prayer sounded from the mosque above Ms. Davis's classroom, the girls, white scarves around their heads, scrambled up to the women's balcony, where they bowed and knelt like old pros. They murmured "bismillah" ("in the name of Allah") before starting a game, "astaghfirullah" ("I beg Allah for forgiveness") after a misstep. But they say their father says their mother worships Satan.

"I got one person saying they want me to be Muslim and then I got my dad saying no Muslim," said Krashanna Agers, 9. "I don't know, I'm not grown up yet."