Questions about Islam!
- Thread starter sycoindian
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Abu-Hurayra and the Shaping of Traditional Islam
Many Muslims and non-Muslims who study Islam are overwhelmed by the number of
Ahadiths narrated by or attributed to Abu Hurayra. The corruption that entered traditional
Islam came through many false hadiths. Thousands of these hadiths were narrated by Abu
Hurayra. Next to QURAN, the word of God, Abu Hurayra is the second source for many
religious matters for traditional Muslims.
Who is Abu Hurayra any way ?
Islamic history books have enough about him to support the commandment in the Quran to
accept no hadiths but the Quran. See Quran 7:185, 45:6, 77:50, 39:23, 50:45......etc.
Abu Hurayra, came from Yemen in the seventh year of Hijra and converted to Islam.
He stayed in the company of the Prophet Muhammed less than two years
He narrated more than 5000 hadiths, about 5374 hadiths, from this two years
company, (Compare this with the few hadiths narrated by Aisha, Abu Baker, or
Omar after very long company of the prophet) .
" Taken from a book entitled Hadith Literature: It's Origin, Development, &
Special Features by Muhammed Zubayr Siddiqui:
1. Abu Hurayra narrated 5374 hadiths
4. 'Aisha Umm al-Mu'minin, 2210 hadiths
10. Umar Ibn al-Khattab, 537 hadiths
11. Ali Ibn Abi Talib, 536 hadiths
31. Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, 142 hadiths
First number indicates rank among all of those who narrated hadiths,
...second number indicates number of Ahadith given.
Compare the numbers of Hadiths given by Abu Baker by that of Abu Hurayra
while keeping in mind that Abu Baker accompanied our beloved Prophet for
about 23 years, while Abu Hurayra accompanied the Prophet for less than 2
years. 142 hadiths for 5374 hadiths.
Most of Abu Hurayra's narrated hadiths are called the "Aahad" hadiths, i.e.
hadiths only witnessed by one person, this one person was Abu Hurayra
himself. ( where is the rule of two witnesses for the truth, disregarded for
the sake of Abu Hurayra).
Some of the Prophets companions (Sahaba) accused him of being a liar, telling
lies about the prophet just to make up more hadiths and gain some status.
Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, the second guided Khalifa threatened Abu Hurayra to
send him to exile if he does not stop telling hadiths about Muhammed, he did
stop until Omar's assassination then started again.
He kept telling hadiths to please the Khalifa of the Muslims then, all the
time, including the time he lived in the royal palace of Muawaya in Syria.
Abu Hurayra told his audience that he is telling them hadiths that if he ever
mentioned when Omar was alive, he would be given several lashes.
Abu Jaafar Al Iskafy mentioned that the Khalifa, Muawaya, chose some of the
people, including Abu Hurayra to tell fabricated stories and hadiths about
Ali Ibn Abu Talib, the Prophet's cousin, to degrade him. Abu Hurayra lived in
Mu'aawiyah's royal palace then and served him including serving his political
views. He produced some of the hadiths that demean Ali, insult him and at
least make him in a lower grade to Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, only for the
pleasure of Mu'aawiyah. Abu Hurayra's stomach was more important than the
trtuh, then.
During Mu'aawiyah's rule, many hadiths, with the help of Abu Hurayra were
invented that support the view that the Imam or Khalifa, should be obeyed
just like God or the messenger. Contradicting the rule of the Quran that all
the matters should be democratic by consultation.(Do not forget that Abu
Hurayra was living in the Khalifa's royal palace at the time.)
Many of the hadiths that were narrated by Abu Hurayra contradict other
hadiths, including his own narrated hadiths and other people's hadiths and
contradict the Quran and contradict common sense.
Abu Hurayra narrated hadiths after Kaab Al Ahbar, who was a Jewish convert
who tried to explain the Quran by using the corrupted books of the Jews. He
produced some of the most outrageous hadiths that is full of contradiction to
the Quran, taken from false stories in the Torah.
The Islamic historians told the story of Abu Hurayra after given the
governorship of Bahrain by Omar, got very rich in two years, so Omar called
him back and told him
" You, the enemy of Allah, you stole the money of Allah. I made you the Emir
of Bahrain when you did not even have a pair of shoes, Where did you get
all this money (400,000 Dirham)?? " The history indicates that Omar took
10,000 Dirham from him.(Abu Huraura admitted for only 20,000 Dirham)
Abu Hurayra was the one accused most of fabricating hadiths. Aisha, the
Prophet's wife always accused him of telling inaccurate or incomplete stories
and of fabricating hadiths that she never heard the prophet saying them.
AISHA AND ABU HURAYRA, ON THE ODDS;
In the famous book "Taa'oueel Mukhtalaf Alhadith " by Ibn Qutaiba Al-Dinory,
the story of Aisha (the Prophet's wife) telling Abu Hurayra; " You tell ahadiths
about the prophet Muhammed that we never heard them from him"
He answered (as Bukhary reported); "You (Aisha) were busy with your mirror and
make up" She (Aisha) answered him; "It is you who were busy with your stomach
and hunger. Your hunger kept you busy, you were running after the people in
the allies, begging them for food, and they used to avoid you and get away from your
way, and finally you would come back and pass out infront of my room and the people
think you were crazy and step all over you."
If we apply the supposedly rigid criteria used to select those who narrated hadiths, Abu
Hurayra will be the first one to fail the test and his hadiths will be the first to be counted
among the fabrications.
Many Muslims and non-Muslims who study Islam are overwhelmed by the number of
Ahadiths narrated by or attributed to Abu Hurayra. The corruption that entered traditional
Islam came through many false hadiths. Thousands of these hadiths were narrated by Abu
Hurayra. Next to QURAN, the word of God, Abu Hurayra is the second source for many
religious matters for traditional Muslims.
Who is Abu Hurayra any way ?
Islamic history books have enough about him to support the commandment in the Quran to
accept no hadiths but the Quran. See Quran 7:185, 45:6, 77:50, 39:23, 50:45......etc.
Abu Hurayra, came from Yemen in the seventh year of Hijra and converted to Islam.
He stayed in the company of the Prophet Muhammed less than two years
He narrated more than 5000 hadiths, about 5374 hadiths, from this two years
company, (Compare this with the few hadiths narrated by Aisha, Abu Baker, or
Omar after very long company of the prophet) .
" Taken from a book entitled Hadith Literature: It's Origin, Development, &
Special Features by Muhammed Zubayr Siddiqui:
1. Abu Hurayra narrated 5374 hadiths
4. 'Aisha Umm al-Mu'minin, 2210 hadiths
10. Umar Ibn al-Khattab, 537 hadiths
11. Ali Ibn Abi Talib, 536 hadiths
31. Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, 142 hadiths
First number indicates rank among all of those who narrated hadiths,
...second number indicates number of Ahadith given.
Compare the numbers of Hadiths given by Abu Baker by that of Abu Hurayra
while keeping in mind that Abu Baker accompanied our beloved Prophet for
about 23 years, while Abu Hurayra accompanied the Prophet for less than 2
years. 142 hadiths for 5374 hadiths.
Most of Abu Hurayra's narrated hadiths are called the "Aahad" hadiths, i.e.
hadiths only witnessed by one person, this one person was Abu Hurayra
himself. ( where is the rule of two witnesses for the truth, disregarded for
the sake of Abu Hurayra).
Some of the Prophets companions (Sahaba) accused him of being a liar, telling
lies about the prophet just to make up more hadiths and gain some status.
Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, the second guided Khalifa threatened Abu Hurayra to
send him to exile if he does not stop telling hadiths about Muhammed, he did
stop until Omar's assassination then started again.
He kept telling hadiths to please the Khalifa of the Muslims then, all the
time, including the time he lived in the royal palace of Muawaya in Syria.
Abu Hurayra told his audience that he is telling them hadiths that if he ever
mentioned when Omar was alive, he would be given several lashes.
Abu Jaafar Al Iskafy mentioned that the Khalifa, Muawaya, chose some of the
people, including Abu Hurayra to tell fabricated stories and hadiths about
Ali Ibn Abu Talib, the Prophet's cousin, to degrade him. Abu Hurayra lived in
Mu'aawiyah's royal palace then and served him including serving his political
views. He produced some of the hadiths that demean Ali, insult him and at
least make him in a lower grade to Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, only for the
pleasure of Mu'aawiyah. Abu Hurayra's stomach was more important than the
trtuh, then.
During Mu'aawiyah's rule, many hadiths, with the help of Abu Hurayra were
invented that support the view that the Imam or Khalifa, should be obeyed
just like God or the messenger. Contradicting the rule of the Quran that all
the matters should be democratic by consultation.(Do not forget that Abu
Hurayra was living in the Khalifa's royal palace at the time.)
Many of the hadiths that were narrated by Abu Hurayra contradict other
hadiths, including his own narrated hadiths and other people's hadiths and
contradict the Quran and contradict common sense.
Abu Hurayra narrated hadiths after Kaab Al Ahbar, who was a Jewish convert
who tried to explain the Quran by using the corrupted books of the Jews. He
produced some of the most outrageous hadiths that is full of contradiction to
the Quran, taken from false stories in the Torah.
The Islamic historians told the story of Abu Hurayra after given the
governorship of Bahrain by Omar, got very rich in two years, so Omar called
him back and told him
" You, the enemy of Allah, you stole the money of Allah. I made you the Emir
of Bahrain when you did not even have a pair of shoes, Where did you get
all this money (400,000 Dirham)?? " The history indicates that Omar took
10,000 Dirham from him.(Abu Huraura admitted for only 20,000 Dirham)
Abu Hurayra was the one accused most of fabricating hadiths. Aisha, the
Prophet's wife always accused him of telling inaccurate or incomplete stories
and of fabricating hadiths that she never heard the prophet saying them.
AISHA AND ABU HURAYRA, ON THE ODDS;
In the famous book "Taa'oueel Mukhtalaf Alhadith " by Ibn Qutaiba Al-Dinory,
the story of Aisha (the Prophet's wife) telling Abu Hurayra; " You tell ahadiths
about the prophet Muhammed that we never heard them from him"
He answered (as Bukhary reported); "You (Aisha) were busy with your mirror and
make up" She (Aisha) answered him; "It is you who were busy with your stomach
and hunger. Your hunger kept you busy, you were running after the people in
the allies, begging them for food, and they used to avoid you and get away from your
way, and finally you would come back and pass out infront of my room and the people
think you were crazy and step all over you."
If we apply the supposedly rigid criteria used to select those who narrated hadiths, Abu
Hurayra will be the first one to fail the test and his hadiths will be the first to be counted
among the fabrications.
Many forget the authentic hadith (as reported in Sunan Ibn Majah) which reported that the Prophet (s.a.w.), when asked if he would permit Saidina Ali to marry another woman, said that he would not, "....unless and until Ali Ibn Abi Talib divorces my daughter, for surely she is part of me and what troubles and agitates her, troubles and agitates me too; and what harm befalls her befalls me too."
"In other Muslim countries such as Syria, Jordan, Morocco, Egypt and Iran, they have adopted the ruling that a husband who has agreed in his marriage contract not to take another wife during the marriage, is bound by that stipulation. The awareness about being able to do this is high in those countries and many couples do insert this stipulation into the marriage contract."
Spookz...
Who are you?? I'm stunned, completely stunned ,
and to think that I told you in another post to throw the mold of a muslim woman out the window because people are not molds. I better start with myself and throw my molds out, because your posts and knowledge have just humbeled me a great deal, .
Who are you?? I'm stunned, completely stunned ,
and to think that I told you in another post to throw the mold of a muslim woman out the window because people are not molds. I better start with myself and throw my molds out, because your posts and knowledge have just humbeled me a great deal, . In my view, Sharia is in much worse shape than Hadith. If we can assume that Hadith was a saying reported by someone who heard it from everyone who heard it from noone that seemed to have heard it from Prophet Muhammed, then Sharia is much weaker than Hadith, because it can not even be attributed to Prophet Muhammed or god at all.
Sharia means the Islamic law. It is a humanly study of the Quran by human to try to put it in a practical code of conduct that could be applied by a government. The qualifications of such individuals that prepare Sharia, don't really exceed ours, so I don't feel the need to justify it or follow it. I certainly was not asked anywhere in the Quran to follow Sharia or Hadith.
Here are Quranic verses about Hadith:
The Quran utilizes "the double negative" to emphasize that the prophet had NO duty EXCEPT delivering the Quran.
"You have NO duty EXCEPT DELIVERING the message." 42:48
"Your ONLY duty is delivering, we will call them to account." 13:40
"The messenger has NO function EXCEPT delivery of the message." 5:99
So if The prophet himself of the religion Islam was told so strongly to butt of the subject of teaching religion, what gives anyone, I mean anyone the right to do so.
You are a confused soul Blackstone.
If Shaira and Quran are one, then I only need the one book Quran to be a muslim. What the hell is Sharia??? Is it a complilation of some things out of the Quran that Bin Laden think we have to follow????
I'm stating my position very very clear to you, I can't be any clearer. I believe in a book called Koran. I speak and read fluent arabic, so I read it everyday in Arabic. I'm enclosing a translation copy of the Quran for you, it's no Sharia. Please send me a copy of the Sharia, so I may know what you are talking about.
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html
This argument between me and blackstone is sounding like
Blackstone is saying: Milk the bull you Bi...h
I say: I can't, it's a male, you SOB
If Shaira and Quran are one, then I only need the one book Quran to be a muslim. What the hell is Sharia??? Is it a complilation of some things out of the Quran that Bin Laden think we have to follow????
I'm stating my position very very clear to you, I can't be any clearer. I believe in a book called Koran. I speak and read fluent arabic, so I read it everyday in Arabic. I'm enclosing a translation copy of the Quran for you, it's no Sharia. Please send me a copy of the Sharia, so I may know what you are talking about.
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html
This argument between me and blackstone is sounding like
Blackstone is saying: Milk the bull you Bi...h
I say: I can't, it's a male, you SOB
My friend you're hovering over my point and refusing to land. Land already. It's freaking 12:30am where I'm.
Why should I read something and then throw it away if it didn't make sense, while I can read the whole book of Koran the right way and not have to thow anything out. Or better, by your standard, I should let Mr. Khomeiny or Bin Laden read it for me.
heflores...
okk.. from readin all what you have written.. would it be safe to say that most muslims are following a delusional version of islam that your Prophet never intended to happen? so that equates with human error, not the error of your Prophet of your book... so if what im proposing is true, dont u think islamic culture has disintegrated and deviated from the 'word of God'? also the system is so rigid now that no one wants to change it cuz that would reflect on human fallibility..
im raisin these points becuz i've seen how muslims behave and i dont want to generalize cuz that wouldn't be fair... but i've seen them to be quite rigid in their beliefs and they've not investigated the truth behind those beliefs.... which equates to brainwashin to some extent...
and about polygamy... i know tons of muslims who have more than one wife... its completely acceptable and considered to be part of the islamic law.... the govt even gives the couple money for the wedding and an apartment... so if you say that that is not what is written in the Quran, dont you think that what these ppl are following is pure fallacy?
okk.. from readin all what you have written.. would it be safe to say that most muslims are following a delusional version of islam that your Prophet never intended to happen? so that equates with human error, not the error of your Prophet of your book... so if what im proposing is true, dont u think islamic culture has disintegrated and deviated from the 'word of God'? also the system is so rigid now that no one wants to change it cuz that would reflect on human fallibility..
im raisin these points becuz i've seen how muslims behave and i dont want to generalize cuz that wouldn't be fair... but i've seen them to be quite rigid in their beliefs and they've not investigated the truth behind those beliefs.... which equates to brainwashin to some extent...
and about polygamy... i know tons of muslims who have more than one wife... its completely acceptable and considered to be part of the islamic law.... the govt even gives the couple money for the wedding and an apartment... so if you say that that is not what is written in the Quran, dont you think that what these ppl are following is pure fallacy?
Hi sycoindian
Chris seems to not want to confront my challenges, after I got so excited thinking I proofed the theistic view, so let me elaborate here a bit on what you said when you made your Islam versus Muslim distinction.
I believe that judiasm, christianity, Islam are phases of development for the same theistic idea of believing in the creator and the hereafter. By default and to admit that they are developmental phases, one must accept the last word, the Koran as the final correct version.
The plight of all religions is the desire of people to define it to others. I think that defining a view to oneself is okay, but when one venues into trying to implement their thoughts on others, they make the fatal mistake of selfishly erasing the future unknowingly and depriving the future of their opportunity to develop theirselves just as the past did. You may ask, then how may we all exist in harmony without interacting, exchanging ideas, and keeping order. This is the liability that we all will be accountable for. Our purpose is to find the balance for us, implement our ideas to the fullest, but keep an open mind that new ideas are coming to replace ours, and hand things over to others at the right time to handle it.
Excercing religion or living one life should be similar to writing acomputer program. One must reserve hard codes for the basics, and soft codes for the heirerchy.
Chris seems to not want to confront my challenges, after I got so excited thinking I proofed the theistic view, so let me elaborate here a bit on what you said when you made your Islam versus Muslim distinction.
I believe that judiasm, christianity, Islam are phases of development for the same theistic idea of believing in the creator and the hereafter. By default and to admit that they are developmental phases, one must accept the last word, the Koran as the final correct version.
The plight of all religions is the desire of people to define it to others. I think that defining a view to oneself is okay, but when one venues into trying to implement their thoughts on others, they make the fatal mistake of selfishly erasing the future unknowingly and depriving the future of their opportunity to develop theirselves just as the past did. You may ask, then how may we all exist in harmony without interacting, exchanging ideas, and keeping order. This is the liability that we all will be accountable for. Our purpose is to find the balance for us, implement our ideas to the fullest, but keep an open mind that new ideas are coming to replace ours, and hand things over to others at the right time to handle it.
Excercing religion or living one life should be similar to writing acomputer program. One must reserve hard codes for the basics, and soft codes for the heirerchy.
Blackstone: Do you oftern follow things that you don't believe in, then go switching around and rationalizing your wrong position by sayiing: I still don't believe it......??
Try to answer my question, or I'll keep posting it as an answer to every future question you'll ever post on this site.
And, do you always try to dictate on muslims how to excersize their PERSONAL BELIEFS using the same erroronious standard that was applied to you and caused you to quit on your own beliefs.
You said that belief belong in another site that you'll open soon. I encourage you to go ahead and do that right now.....Go along.