Questions about Islam!

Originally posted by sycoindian
hef.. i thought ud agree with green...

if not, im interested to know your response to what green's said..
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hey sycoindian, I don't know all the answers...too much pressure to be expected to know something about the Quran....It's very difficult to understand, but if you want a two cents view on the status of woman, so here's my very womanly answer. :eek:

First, god equated between man and woman in the Quran. God didn't at all make a distinction between them to show that one is better than the other in his view, yet god seems to have shown that they have different degrees and proportions to their internal makeup or soul...if I may be blunt and presumptive in my vocublry....

First, it should be understood that god never ever has given a man a pass to be blunt or forcefull with a woman, even if the woman is as strong minded with Atheistic viewes as I do. God warns you not to try to straighten a woman, we like being crooked and god loves me crooked, or he'll kick your butt no stop...nanananananananana See relevant Quranic verse below

The Divorce
[65.6] Lodge them where you lodge according to your means, and do not injure them in order that you may straiten them;

Now don't go giving me another out of context Sura to belittle me and to try to trick god or he will trick you back...using your own trick.....again the degrees are mentioned...ooh scary stuff...I'm still dealing with Raithere on my emotional trauma with the degrees and proportion of the conscious.

The Pen
[68.44] So leave Me and him who rejects this announcement; We will overtake them by degrees, from whence they perceive not:

Second : Do you feel bad sycoindian that Woman are given the pain of bearing life, suckling the young...not much strength..those stinkin monthly cycles, roller coaster emotions.....Don't feel bad my dear...it's all part of the plan in which god knows that they are different than men in internal makeup and proportion....God excused woman from many responsibilites...even praying....when emotional and having her monthly time.....So next time your wife mother or acting weird, start being nice to them. Woman are given a special waiver...men don't have any waivers..exemptions, out of jail card, ect......thank god all mighty I'm a woman...

Now don't run away yet, Because of that, men get a degree of responsibility toward god than woman...Would you say that by god giving man one degree of responsiblity over woman that god is not treating the woman right....I say...contrary, I can use less responsibilities toward god anytime of the day, for the responsibilities are often breaking my own back. See the relevant Quranic verse.

The Cow
[2.228] And the divorced women should keep themselves in waiting for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they should conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the last day; and their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile if they wish for reconciliation; and they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner, and the men are a degree above them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

So I have rights similar to yours against me, and you have one degree of responsbility over me.....

Thank god all mighty for being a woman...:p :eek:

See you later
 
567

I don't like any of mans religions,they are used as excuses for killing & justification for any act that man wants.
They all pray to race gods,& I am not talking as in race issues!
So thats what I think.
If you have checked my posts then you would know what I think.
You only checked them along the lines that suit you!I think we are all in school & that we are here to learn responsibilities.Only when you have learnt to be responsible your actions can you move on.
 
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Re: 567

Originally posted by odin
I don't like any of mans religions,they are used as excuses for killing & justification for any act that man wants.
They all pray to race gods,& I am not talking as in race issues!
So thats what I think.
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do you really think we need an religion as an excuse to fuck each other? how about i simply fuck you cos you smell bad? or i want the water on your land? or you are monkey people?

;)
 
how about i simply fuck you cos you smell bad? or i want the water on your land? or you are monkey people?
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Thats up to you,but you will have to carry the responsibility for it.
Even if you think you will not!
 
Originally posted by heflores
Justifications...Justifications....Must we always justify like that.

Come back Blackstone we despretely need you...Come back whatsupyall, everyone, truthseeker, william bishop, Jaxom, live4him, ect...I need everyone.....help??
Show us the alternative prespective...I hate it when one opinion is presented with no challenge....
Vienna, Tiassa, Cris, Raithere, give us your two cents worth please...
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Why come back? The main problem is that you said to him:
Justifications...Justifications....Must we always justify like that.

But that is exactly what you do when confronted by verses in the bible that are not to your taste. I do not understand the need for the pot to callt he kettle black...Seems kind of hypocritical to me.
 
Originally posted by sycoindian
if what you said is true Green... then why is polygamy practised blatantly still in muslim cultures? surely, such men vs women ratios dont exist anymore... what you personally believe is for you to keep... its commendable that you would want to investigate the history, meaning behind the laws... any sensible person would do that...
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Green_world answers:

Polygamy is not practiced widly in the muslim 'culture', you mentioned the word culture, this is the word I want to use.

about the men vs women ratios: this ratios STILL exist and it's getting worse specially in the western world, more and more girls are born.

Changes in human sex ratio

http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NewScience/reproduction/sexratio/sexratio.htm

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i made a distinction about muslims vs islam before... so if most muslism accept everythin cuz they are spoon fed, doesn't that negate the whole point of being religious? so if the current laws have been manipulated from the Quran, the entire muslim social culture is a farce in the name of Islam....
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Green_world answers:

You have here to distinguish between Islam as religion and the practices of some muslim societies. culture sometimes override religion specially in India and Pakistan.

The laws of the holy quran does not change to suit everyone, those laws dont change because they are the source of change.
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i still find the double standards favouring men in muslim culture appalling.... if you believe that God made all humans equal, why humans make women inferior? human fallibility... a trait no one wants to admit when it comes on a personal level...

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Green_world answers:

I dont accept that at all, while I agree that in some muslim 'cultures' men have the upper hand, but in other Muslim countries where true islam is practiced women have the SAMEA rights as men.

Now, I have a question for you: name me one AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ??????????????

In islam we have many women who became prime ministers and presidents, in fact, the president of the largest muslim country of the world is WOMAN: president megawati of Indonesia.
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Bruce... why cant a muslim woman be dependent on a non muslim man? cuz of religious diff? if that's true, i find it to be quite a ridiculous reason... also why is that in muslim families, the children are automatically muslim? wat if they dont want to be muslim? seems like its forced... the whole deal about only marryin muslims just seems like its an exclusive club...
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green_world answers:

Because Non-muslim man DOES NOT recognize Islam, Islam recognize ALL the religions before it.

In the Muslim families childern will be Muslims because at early stage of their lives, they CAN'T distinguish what's right and what's wrong for them, once they are 18 they can choose to change if they wish to.
 
Hi,

I am more concerned that both Islam and Christianity teach understanding and tolerace for your fellow man, Yet this petty bicking, and vain attempts to prove each others view points incorrect, based on 2000 year old evidence, is shunning the very ideals your religions are based on. It is not the goal of one religion to prove another incorrect. It is the goal of every man to fins his own truths and faith.

J
 
Originally posted by jusmeig
Hi,

I am more concerned that both Islam and Christianity teach understanding and tolerace for your fellow man, Yet this petty bicking, and vain attempts to prove each others view points incorrect, based on 2000 year old evidence, is shunning the very ideals your religions are based on. It is not the goal of one religion to prove another incorrect. It is the goal of every man to fins his own truths and faith.

J
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I agree with you totally but when you have some FANATIC christians who want to demonize the great religion of Islam then someone must step in and show the world how ABSURD their bible is and how PATHETIC their faith is.

This is my job, if they respect Islam, they will be respected, if they dont, then they will have very hard time refuting and defending all the wicked stuff in their faith.
 
---Polygamy is not practiced widly in the muslim 'culture', you mentioned the word culture, this is the word I want to use. ----

oohh yes it is... i currently live in a middle eastern country and i have a whole buncha local friends who attest to that too... i've seen it to be a quite common occurence... my sponsor himself has 4 wives and a gazillion kids... i know i was generalizin to an extent, but i can't help it in this discussion...

---about the men vs women ratios: this ratios STILL exist and it's getting worse specially in the western world, more and more girls are born. ---

i still find that quite baseless... what if suddenly in a decade, the ratio was overturned? what then? will you accept women havin more than one husband? ratios dont have anythin to do with this.. i find this so that women are perpetually kept subservient to men...

---culture sometimes override religion specially in India and Pakistan. ---

so cultural applications might vary... but does the word of Quran hold more importance than cultural influences?

---but in other Muslim countries where true islam is practiced women have the SAMEA rights as men.---

oohh yeahh? give me one example of that... and im not talkin of political recognition... benazir bhutto was also PM of pakistan... and you gave an example of indonesia.. im talkin about social implications... women are restricted in every manner and form... i was last week at the beach and i saw one arab family chillin out there.. the father and son in shorts and tshirt and the wife and daughter fully dressed in black from top to bottom... now what kinda justice is that?

---Now, I have a question for you: name me one AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ?????????????? ---

i dont give a damm about the american political system myself...

---Because Non-muslim man DOES NOT recognize Islam, Islam recognize ALL the religions before it. ---

how can you say that.. someone might just not be a follower of Islam... that's a nice way to say that we're better than you so sod off... aint gonna marry you cuz u aint followin my Book...

---In the Muslim families childern will be Muslims because at early stage of their lives, they CAN'T distinguish what's right and what's wrong for them, once they are 18 they can choose to change if they wish to.----

i have to see that yet... it sounds like a nice idea... what about social taboos?

---I agree with you totally but when you have some FANATIC christians who want to demonize the great religion of Islam ---

i donno if that was targetted to me, but dont make assumptions... im not christian... im askin some legitimate questions... if you dont like it, ur free not to post...
 
hef... i dont pity women cuz of all the stuff you mentioned.. child bearing, raisin em etc etc... its a bounty given especially to women... im referrin to how women are treated in arab countries... and about the whole deal of men bein give a degree of responsibility compared to women... i see that from a social perspective... not that men are better than women...

i just wish men would give their women some freedom and some air to breathe...
 
i started this thread to understand some of the social practices of islamic ppl... i dont want this to be a right vs wrong argument... and im not here to bash islam or any other religion for any matter... so id really appreciate if we have a healthy discussion instead of trynna get the upper hand... im trynna have a rational understanding of the Quranic laws and the current interpretation of em... thanks..

p.s. Markx... i just re read ur post... got a clear idea of the polygamy laws... so is it left upto the individual to decide if he should marry more than one wife? and if his judgement is erroneous, he is punishable by God only... right?? also, do women have a say if they're marryin someone who already has a wife/wives? i wanna know if women have any control over such a situation...

also, what you said is theoretically very practical.. but is it being practised that way?
 
Muslim Societies: Unity or Diversity?

It is often claimed that Islam is not only a religion but a culture and a civilization. 'The Islamic world' and 'Islamic history' are commonly used terms, both in popular public discourse and in academic writing, suggesting some kind of coherent unity. At the same time, writers point to the diversity of Muslim countries from Morocco to Indonesia, from Nigeria to Turkey. Is there a unity behind the diversity, at least in the 'heartlands' of Islam in the Middle East and North Africa, as Ernest Gellner and others have claimed?

Now, more than ever, with Islamic voices contesting politics, culture and society in practically every country with a Muslim population, Islam would appear to have a unity and a common purpose across political and cultural frontiers: to provide a common identity for Muslims who wish to live in a society of their faith and be ruled by their sacred law. This picture can only confirm in the public mind the idea of Islam as a common essence of all these societies, one that rules and determines their culture and their social and political processes.

The views asserting the uniqueness, unity and exceptionalism of Muslim society and history are all the more potent in the current intellectual climate which has seen the demise of universalist theories of historical causation and social analysis such as Marxism. The idea of cultural and civilizational essences and identities underlying unique histories of particular civilizations have been most prominently stated in Samuel Huntington's 'clash of civilizations' thesis. Even though this has been widely criticized, the assumptions behind it are equally widely held, not least by many Muslim and Arab intellectuals.

Muslim exceptionalism and uniqueness and the centrality of religion to Muslim society and history are, of course, the pillars of Islamist political advocacy. Many 'secular' intellectuals, specially in Egypt, while challenging Islamist illiberal interpretations, would, nevertheless, wish to base their own advocacies on 'authentic' Muslim and Arab 'culture'. Many advocates of Human Rights, for instance, insist on deriving these rights from liberal (and strained) interpretations of the Qu'ran and the traditions. I have encountered strong hostility to my argument that the modern discourses of Human Rights are products of recent political struggles and ideologies, many of them against the establishments of state, church and dominant classes, and which have no ancestry in the much older ethical and legal discourses of any religion.

What is unique about Islam? I argue, alongside many colleagues, against this cultural essentialization of an exceptional 'Islamic world', contrasted implicitly or explicitly with an equally exceptional and totalized 'West'. Of course, every history is unique. The conceptual tools of social and historical analyses are however common, and are used to analyse diverse unique histories. The question also arises of what is the object whose unique history is being told? Does 'Islamic society' constitute a unitary entity with a common and consistent history extending to the present and underlying the current 'Islamic phenomenon'? Many eminent writers such as the hisorian HAR Gibb and the anthropologist and philosopher Ernest Gellner, have advanced arguments to that effect. These arguments are the products of deep scholarship and often thorough familiarity with the histories and cultures of the region. The question however is conceptual: the essentialism rests on a totalization of histories and societies as 'Islamic'. This label cannot be denied: yet, what commonality does it entail? It can be argued for instance, that the modern history (from the eighteenth century) of Iran shows a totally different political and social structure to that of Turkey or Egypt, let alone Arabia. It can be plausibly argued that the Christian and Muslim shores of the Mediterranean shared many common features of popular culture: Tunisian coastal cities had more in common with Sicily and the Italian south than with Arabia or Iraq. The manifest reality, for instance, of women in southern Europe covering their heads in a similar manner to their Mediterranean Muslim counterparts seems to have escaped the notice of observers intent on totalized contrasts! Indeed, we can date the divergence from previous common elements between the two shores of the Mediterranean to the second half of the twentieth century as many Muslim Mediterranean cities, such as Alexandria or Algiers, became 'peasantized' by the great rural influx, and European Mediterranean cities increasingly integrated into a national culture dominated by the North, a process accelerated by the regional policies of the European Community.

I still have to deal with the question of what it is that lends credence to the essentialist arguments: what is the common denominator which makes diverse societies Muslim beyond the obvious fact of religion? Perhaps a good way of answering this question is by drawing parallels with European Christianity. The Christian world shares a universe of discourse referring to sets of institutions, doctrines and personnel: the church, the priesthood, the Holy Trinity, the Bible, the problems of salvation and grace. These are not restricted to the religious sphere but have involved many spheres of culture, law, morality and family. Divorce, homosexuality and abortion, for instance, continue to be issues in the politics of several Western countries. A good historian of Europe will tell you however, that these entities of Church, scriptures, law and so on, have taken vastly different forms and social significance at various points in European history and in different regions. The Medieval Catholic Church, for instance, was a very different institution from the eighteenth century Church and with very different role in society and politics.

Similarly, we find in Islam a common set of vocabularies referring to institutions, doctrines and personnel: the Qu'ran and Hadith (traditions of the Prophet), the ulama, the Shari'a (religious law) and many others. These have similarly varying structures, forms of organization and social significance over the centuries and in different societies. Ernest Gellner in his characterization of a constant pattern of Muslim history and society, attributes a central role to the ulama and the Shari'a. His model, however, crumbles before the many different forms of ulama organization, power, and institutions, not only in different societies and histories but even within the class structure of the same society. The elite ulama of late Ottoman times, for instance, were integrated into the ruling institutions and bureaucracies, while their Iranian counterparts of the same time constituted parts of local, decentralized power elites with their own revenues and institutions separate from the govenment. Both were distinct from the ulama 'proletariat' of their own time, the multitude of students, preachers, dervishes and mendicants, performing services for the poor. Similarly, Sufism and sufi brotherhoods, regular features of practically all Muslim societies display a great variety of manifestation and of relations to the mainstream religious institutions, from elite intellectual mystics counting the higher ulama in their ranks, to illiterate rural charismatic saints ruling peasant communities with magic, medicine and ceremony.

And how do we understand these social formations and their historical and geographical variations and transformations, the logic of their coherence and contradiction? Well, by the same repertoire of social and historical concepts and analyses which we use for Western or any other societies. It is by these means that we grasp the uniqueness of each manifestation, not of a totalized history with an Islamic essence.

Finally, does the current 'Islamic resurgence' vindicate the essentialist position that Islam remains the essence of Muslim society, which is peculiarly resistant to secularization and to separating religion from politics? I am more convinced by the opposite argument: that current political Islam is partly a reaction and a defence against the secularizing processes that have inevitably come with modernity and which continue to have their effect on all societies in the region. Law, even where elements of religion have remained within it, has become codified state law, subject to political and social exigencies; education has been largely removed from religious spheres and authorities (that is why these authorities are trying, in vain, to hang on); religious authorities cannot, try as they may, control the manifold channels of information and entertainment of the modern media; modern economic exigencies have forced women into the labour market and the public spheres, subverting patriarchal authority and traditional values (associated with religion). Only in a society so thoroughly destroyed by successive wars such as Afghanistan can the religious reactionaries succeed in reversing these inexorable processes. Saudi Arabia where petrolic wealth has partly exempted the authorities from the exigencies of modern socio-economic processes has also partly succeeded in arresting these trends, but for how long? In Iran, the 'mullocracy' of the Islamic Republic has had to retreat repeatedly (but discreetly) in the face of these contingencies. Family planning, for instance, initially denounced by Khomeini as contrary to Islam and an imperialist measure against Muslims, was restored after a few years as government policy. Family law, after initial reversals, has now restored most of the Shah's reforms and more. Regarding working women, the level of employment in the work force was mostly maintained, and there is increasing participation of women in public life, politics, the arts, sport and even as junior judges. Crucially, Khomeini, faced with the exigencies of governance, ruled in 1988 that in the interests of the whole Islamic umma, the Islamic government is empowered to suspend any provision of the Shari'a, including prayer and fasting! Since then the category of 'interest' (maslaha) has been written into the constitution and institutionalized, opening the gates wide for pragmatic legislation and policy. I rest my case.

Dr Sami Zubaida is lecturer at Birkbeck College, University of London


Muslim Societies: Unity or Diversity?


"The use of 'Muslim Laws' reflects two equally important issues. First, laws formally considered Muslim vary, sometimes radically, from one cultural context to another.

Second, a plurality of legal codes co-exist in each cultural, social and political context. At the very least, each society has a formal, codified legal system and a parallel system in which customary laws and practices combine. Further sub-divisions can also occur - for example, some countries may have two formal codes, religious and civil. Similarly, customary laws are diverse."
 
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Originally posted by sycoindian
hef... i dont pity women cuz of all the stuff you mentioned.. child bearing, raisin em etc etc... its a bounty given especially to women... im referrin to how women are treated in arab countries... and about the whole deal of men bein give a degree of responsibility compared to women... i see that from a social perspective... not that men are better than women...

i just wish men would give their women some freedom and some air to breathe...
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You are so kind sycoindian, seriously...in a milk the cow kindda way....in a very islamic kindda way....but as you see Spookz already got the point about the men having more responsbility and already posted a very very interesting educational post that talks about all these things that you mentioned..

Later sycoindian
 
Originally posted by Blackstone
I assure you that i will be justful between my harem..now, get me my 4 wives please. :)
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Blackstone, ever had 4 wives before? Do you think they all live in the same house? Do they all have separate bedrooms and stuff? How does a man decide who's wife turn it is that night? Do they really take turns? I was just wondering...
 
Originally posted by Blackstone
no i didnt have the honor to marry 4 wives before, i dont even believe in mirrage and i dont need it... but as far as i know, they are usually put in seperate rooms, and sometimes in seperate houses...depends on the wealth of the master, i mean husband..but why you ask?

as for knowing whose turn is, they do take turnes...each one have her night...unless he married a seconed one a temp secret marrage without telling his first wife and spending half the day with her and lie to his first one...you know these stories..


btw..check your pm
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well, blackstone, you are describing to me a very weird situation..of course you should be bothered by it, so now we know how YOU feel. I think I also know how you feel about a muslim man who excersing polygamy...Now, i want your opinion about a woman who has allowed a man to marry with her permission 3 other women? I mean under her nose, she has allowed it....What do you think about a woman like that?

I would like to make three buckets here to store the data...One for Islam...one for the man responsbility...one for the women responsbility....If you can kindly help me figure out this puzzle.
 
blackstone.. i agree with what you are saying... at least you are backin up what im thinkin with more evidence... :D

i need a better reason to believe that polygamy is okk to practise other than the ratio explanation cuz it just sounds kinda silly... and as i said and blackstone said, what if the ratios were overturned in the favour of women... what then?

there is a blatant disparity between theory and practise as pointed out by blackstone... and i have witnessed it too....

p.s. good post spookz...
 
Originally posted by Blackstone
he doesnt need her permission to marry on her, but he will need her permission weather she will want to be one of them or not.

Since you can not give any proof from the Quran that god is the responsbile entity for human behaviour, and that the man or woman are excercing pure free will and abilities that they're responsible for their actions, then you have strayed as far from the topic of studying Islam and have placed us in a another topic that I'm not a bit interested in discussing which is human behavior....why does man or woman do what they do?

Religion is not a justification you people for anything...please get it through your head...people justify things...religion doesn't justify anything....

Man Woman make a CHOICE....CHOICE is by free-will....unless they're crazy and hearing voices...

I don't give a shit about reality...If I do...I'll go insane thinking about Iraq, Palestine, native Americans, extinct dinasours, ect......I only give a shit about myself..That's the object of salvations my friends....Don't stray from the goal...Focus

Remember...Judging is only for god...unless you're hearing voices that you're gonna be part of the panel of trustees.
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Originally posted by sycoindian
---Polygamy is not practiced widly in the muslim 'culture', you mentioned the word culture, this is the word I want to use. ----

oohh yes it is... i currently live in a middle eastern country and i have a whole buncha local friends who attest to that too... i've seen it to be a quite common occurence... my sponsor himself has 4 wives and a gazillion kids... i know i was generalizin to an extent, but i can't help it in this discussion...
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Green_world Answers:

It was SHEER generalization, I am from the Middle East myself, I have NEVER KNOWN someone in all my life who is married with even 2 !!!! I AM FROM SYRIA.
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---about the men vs women ratios: this ratios STILL exist and it's getting worse specially in the western world, more and more girls are born. ---

i still find that quite baseless... what if suddenly in a decade, the ratio was overturned? what then? will you accept women havin more than one husband? ratios dont have anythin to do with this.. i find this so that women are perpetually kept subservient to men...
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G W:

I provided a link, what did you provide ? rants.

The problem with women marrying more than one is the emotional difficulties in establishing WHO is the father, something very common in the ADULTUROUS world of the west.
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---culture sometimes override religion specially in India and Pakistan. ---

so cultural applications might vary... but does the word of Quran hold more importance than cultural influences?
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G W:
In some Ignorant muslim societies, YES it does.

==============================

---but in other Muslim countries where true islam is practiced women have the SAMEA rights as men.---

oohh yeahh? give me one example of that... and im not talkin of political recognition... benazir bhutto was also PM of pakistan... and you gave an example of indonesia.. im talkin about social implications... women are restricted in every manner and form... i was last week at the beach and i saw one arab family chillin out there.. the father and son in shorts and tshirt and the wife and daughter fully dressed in black from top to bottom... now what kinda justice is that?
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GW:

I will give more than 1 example; SYRIA: we have 3 woman ministers in our government, women constitues 32% of our work force.

Turkey: women in turkey enjoys western-style freedom.

Indonesia: the largest muslim country in the world where they have WOMAN as their president.

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---Now, I have a question for you: name me one AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ?????????????? ---

i dont give a damm about the american political system myself...
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G W:

It is VERY embarrassing question for you, so admit it.

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-Because Non-muslim man DOES NOT recognize Islam, Islam recognize ALL the religions before it. ---

how can you say that.. someone might just not be a follower of Islam... that's a nice way to say that we're better than you so sod off... aint gonna marry you cuz u aint followin my Book...
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G W:
I did not say that, what I said is that ISLAM recognize and RESPECT and GLORIFY the religions before it, but other religions does not even recognize Islam, so why on earth our PURE women should marry men from other unrespectful faiths ??
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---In the Muslim families childern will be Muslims because at early stage of their lives, they CAN'T distinguish what's right and what's wrong for them, once they are 18 they can choose to change if they wish to.----

i have to see that yet... it sounds like a nice idea... what about social taboos?
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G W:

What do you mean social taboos ?? if you mean your western traits of adultry, alcohol and drugs, then NO. peroid.
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---I agree with you totally but when you have some FANATIC christians who want to demonize the great religion of Islam ---

i donno if that was targetted to me, but dont make assumptions... im not christian... im askin some legitimate questions... if you dont like it, ur free not to post...
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G W:

Thank you for clarifying your position, I am more than happy to reply.

Where are you from ? are you indian ?
 
Originally posted by Blackstone
I want everyones opinion here please, from looking to both my posts and hef's posts in this thread from the begining, who was the one telling his view as the actual code, and who was the one who posted his evidences from islamic sources without posting his own opinion with it?
:rolleyes:



you need help.

1- I read, write arabic fluently..
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I am here to CHALLENGE you and refute your LIES about Islam one by one.

You said you speak arabic fluently, ok:

IZA KONTA TATAKALM ALARABIA BETALAKA IZAN ARIDKA AN TOGAWEB ALA HAZA ALSOU'AL: MEN AYANA ANTA WA MA HEYIA GENSIATOKA WA MAHOW BALADOKA ????

If you really speak and read arabic fluently, then answer the above question just to make sure and then we can go together in front of everyone here REFUTING your lies about Islam.
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