Punishing women for false accusation of rape

[Beer w/Straw]

Something a little more recent:

Police said Monday that a 27-year-old local man had confessed to the crime.

The suspect said in his confession that he had seen Eaton running, and "with sexual assault as a probable motive, hit her twice with his car in order to immobilize her," Crete's Chief of Police Konstantinos Lagoudakis said at a press conference Tuesday. "Then, after she was unconscious, he put her in the trunk of his car and took her to the location of the World War II bunker" where her body was found, Lagoudakis said.

The suspect raped her and dumped her body into the bunker, covering the opening of the bunker's air shaft with a piece of wood to hide it, Crete Police's head of press Eleni Papathanassiou told CNN. It is not clear if Eaton was still alive when she was raped, she said.
Wheel tracks lead officers to the suspect, police said, explaining that they had linked tracks found near the bunker to his car, which, they say, he cleaned after the attack on Eaton.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/16/euro...zanne-eaton-rape-greece-crete-intl/index.html

Probably lucky to get a confession cause:

We know that sperm cells are found in the female reproductive tract for seven days after ejaculation or longer. Researchers are testing a hypothesis that may extend the length of time in which DNA profiling is possible in sexual assault cases.

https://www.nij.gov/journals/267/pages/extending.aspx

I found this thread petty from the start; a woman can't even bring forth rape allegations if they're dead...

 

[wegs]

Women are different to men, but also equal. They are certainly in most cases physically weaker...does that trouble you? I thought that was simply a biological aspect of what differences there are. And it is why I will stand up for a woman on a bus, help her with baggage if needed, or any other aspect where I can help. My Mrs also recipricates when I need help in my various cooking endeavours and other more sedate jobs in which I'm not as competent as her. You have any problems with any of that Bells?

The problem is why does any of this even need to be said, at all? No one questions men's worth (as a whole), but many men feel this uncontrollable need to announce that they ''approve'' of women being treated equal. As women, should we be thankful that you guys finally see us as equals?

This is one of the reasons why I dislike types like Sam Harris, who tries to come off as one of these intellectually progressive guys, but really...they still struggle with women's equality. He often mentions in his talks ''Men and women are different, but we're equal.'' It's almost become a mantra of his. Thanks Sam Harris for considering me to be equal to you, as a person.

If you're not sexist, racist, misogynistic, bigoted, homophobic, etc...nothing needs to be said. It will just show in how you treat others. I liken it to Trump who has been quoted ''Hey, I love women,'' or ''Hey, I love Mexicans...'' But, we see how he treats women and how he feels about Mexicans.

Not comparing you to Trump, paddoboy - but, I'm just showing how this all comes across.

 

[billvon]

It is even sadder that you are unable to accept that it certainly is not in anyway insulting and/or demeaning.

It is in fact insulting to some people. Not to all.

So we can discuss with respect for each other... .

Agreed. And that sometimes involves refraining from calling people "sweety" or "love."

 

[Bells]

I'm no pervert Bells, but perhaps you are driven by vindictiveness?

The stereotyping just doesn't end, does it?

And the fact that I dare stand up to you on a matter where you are taking an extreme view.

What extreme view would that be?

And you aren't exactly standing up to anyone. You are simply spouting chauvinistic and sexist drivel.

No Bells you are again being driven by 'qualities"that don't add to your credibility.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Anywho, back to your chauvinistic and sexist drivel...

Women are different to men, but also equal. They are certainly in most cases physically weaker...does that trouble you? I thought that was simply a biological aspect of what differences there are. And it is why I will stand up for a woman on a bus, help her with baggage if needed, or any other aspect where I can help. My Mrs also recipricates when I need help in my various cooking endeavours and other more sedate jobs in which I'm not as competent as her. You have any problems with any of that Bells?

No one cares about the ermmm gender divide and gender roles you have or share with your spouse and in your household.. This has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[paddoboy]

The stereotyping just doesn't end, does it?

No it's not sterotyping, its science based on evidence and that has occured in the past with an ex mod also.

What extreme view would that be?

Your apparent view that women that lie and make serious false allegations of rape or assault, are somehow non existent and should not be discussed?

And you aren't exactly standing up to anyone. You are simply spouting chauvinistic and sexist drivel.

Wrong again Bells, but hey, you keep pushing that line and while some mud may stick, it will only be with regards to this forum. Not too much to worry about I suggest.

This makes absolutely no sense.

I'm questioning your credibility Bells.

No one cares about the ermmm gender divide and gender roles you have or share with your spouse and in your household.. This has nothing to do with this thread.

Of course you would not be interested in how any marriage to work is an application of giving and taking by both sides.

This has nothing to do with this thread.

It certainly has plenty to do with this thread, particularly in light of your childish allegations and remarks against my person.

 

[billvon]

No it's not sterotyping, its science based on evidence

"You're vindictive" is science based on evidence? Well, I have neuro science evidence that says that you just don't get it, and that's better scientifically.

Wrong again Bells, but hey, you keep pushing that line and while some mud may stick . . .

Given that you've admitted doing that - she's not wrong.

 

[paddoboy]

"You're vindictive" is science based on evidence? Well, I have neuro science evidence that says that you just don't get it, and that's better scientifically.

Given that you've admitted doing that - she's not wrong.

Of course she is wrong, and taking an extreme view also, just as you are apparently doing.
Let me sum it up for you.....In light of the woman's rights movement and equality [note equality not superiority] it should be noted that there are times when through vindictiveness, jealousy, rage or whatever, some women will resort to lying and false allegations against men. While certainly this is a small number in comparison to actual sexual assault and actual rape, it should not be swept under the carpet and not talked about. The woman in question, as illustrated in the OP are best described as evil and yes, lowlife, because what they knew the consequences of what they were doing.
These so called women should have the book thrown at them, just as should any male convicted of assault of any kind.
Yet it seems that Bell and her hanger on supporters simply don't want this discussed. Thankfully at least one reasonable person has accepted that it should be discussed and expressed the facts that apply to these two women in the OP.

Agreed. And that sometimes involves refraining from calling people "sweety" or "love."

Perhaps you need to address that to the fool that started it?


Funny how things come to light when discussing a subject...A case just on this morning's news re a Sailor [female] in the RAN, groping a Male counterpart. While certainly not an open and shut case as is the two in the OP, it is food for thought, that shows sometimes, women can be the aggressor.....
https://www.9news.com.au/national/s...-have-lodged-earlier-harassment-complaint/e6c
Sailor ‘slapped and pinched’ colleague after allegedly making her own complaint
"A sailor accused of “bum slapping” and “nipple pinching” a male colleague has pleaded not guilty to assault and has instead claimed that she is the victim of sexual harassment.
Able seaman Hannah Clayton allegedly assaulted fellow sailor Jarrad Pluckrose in 2017 while the pair were finishing training on HMAS Cerberus in Victoria.
In a hearing today, the 27-year-old told a Sydney court she had “no recollection” of the alleged pinching incident and said the slap was “unintentional” and actually “on the outer thigh”.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

[billvon]

Of course she is wrong, and taking an extreme view also, just as you are apparently doing.
Let me sum it up for you.....In light of the woman's rights movement and equality [note equality not superiority] it should be noted that there are times when through vindictiveness, jealousy, rage or whatever, some women will resort to lying and false allegations against men.

Right. I am replying to your claim that Bells "is driven by vindictiveness" (which is what I replied to.)

Perhaps you need to address that to the fool that started it?

From your post: "when I'm asking assistance of any female attendant in a store, I automatically will call her "love" "can you help me with this love?" "Great thanks love!""

Although calling yourself a fool seems a bit extreme.

Funny how things come to light when discussing a subject...A case just on this morning's news re a Sailor [female] in the RAN, groping a Male counterpart. While certainly not an open and shut case as is the two in the OP, it is food for thought, that shows sometimes, women can be the aggressor.....

Of course. No one doubts that, nor does it have anything to do what we were discussing.

 

[paddoboy]

From your post: "when I'm asking assistance of any female attendant in a store, I automatically will call her "love" "can you help me with this love?" "Great thanks love!""

The reference and as per highlighted by Bells in her warning to me, was in relations to how forum members addressed each other on the forum.
But a nice dishonest try by yourself in attempting to confuse.

 

[paddoboy]

Of course. No one doubts that, nor does it have anything to do what we were discussing.

It has plenty to do with this thread and the extreme actions by some to silence such news.

 

[billvon]

The reference and as per highlighted by Bells in her warning to me, was in relations to how forum members addressed each other on the forum.

Nope. This is the warning she gave you: "please cease and desist in referring to other members with terms such as "sweety", "darl", and other frankly demeaning terms when used in this context when they have clearly expressed that it is not welcome."

Nothing about "love" - and nothing about it being OK to do any of that.

So again, I am telling the fool who started this - it's not welcome to many women. You are, of course, free to be an ass about it. But think about whether that's how you want to spend your energies.

It has plenty to do with this thread and the extreme actions by some to silence such news.

Nope. Try again.

 

[paddoboy]

Mod Note

Paddoboy, please cease and desist in referring to other members with terms such as "sweety", "darl", and other frankly demeaning terms when used in this context when they have clearly expressed that it is not welcome. You were told it was not appropriate by others, but you persist. It is unwelcome.

Please refer to this site's rules:

Referring to other members
H4. Refer to other members by their chosen screen names. The deliberate alteration of a member’s name to insult or demean him or her is unacceptable.

H5. Comments about other forum members that are derogatory, overtly sexual or which constitute harassment are unacceptable.​

Perhaps you believe you are being a larrikin, or the cliché Aussie 'bloke'.

You aren't.

The same also applies to others.

Enough is enough.

Good work Bells, that highlighted line in particular. But just a word of advice, perhaps as a mod, you should have gone back to when that nonsense started? Agree?

 

[paddoboy]

Nope. Try again.

Most definitely yes,

 

[wegs]

@ paddoboy

I think the issue has to do with stereotyping women as jealous, vindictive, etc.

That would be like saying because some men rape, all men are inclined to rape, due to their ''nature.''

Because some women are vindictive, doesn't mean that all women are prone to being vindictive because that is our ''nature.''

I think that if anyone commits a crime, no matter what the crime is, he/she should experience the consequences of breaking the law. I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with you on that point, paddoboy.

I know it seems like with the #metoo movement, men are starting to fall into the backdrop, but if women weren't kept in the backdrop for so many years, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If men had treated women with equality since the dawn of time, we wouldn't have all this strife. Less than one hundred years ago, women didn't have the right to vote in the US. Women couldn't have their own property, and in fact, in some countries, women are considered property of men. Men haven't had a cake walk in history, but they haven't had the same history as women, and so...if we're going to ever understand one another, we have to remember that our ''differences'' go way back, in terms of inequality.

 

[paddoboy]

@ paddoboy

I think the issue has to do with stereotyping women as jealous, vindictive, etc.

That would be like saying because some men rape, all men are inclined to rape, due to their ''nature.''

Because some women are vindictive, doesn't mean that all women are prone to being vindictive because that is our ''nature.''

I think that if anyone commits a crime, no matter what the crime is, he/she should experience the consequences of breaking the law. I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with you on that point, paddoboy.

No one's attempting to sterotype anyone wegs. I was and am simply highlighting a particular couple of cases where women have been at fault, something not often discussed.

Because some women are vindictive, doesn't mean that all women are prone to being vindictive because that is our ''nature.''

I think that if anyone commits a crime, no matter what the crime is, he/she should experience the consequences of breaking the law. I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with you on that point, paddoboy.

BINGO!!! But so far wegs, you have been the only one to actually say that without making excuses or going off the deep end.

 

[billvon]

Most definitely yes,

Again, no. As proof - your posts here.

 

[paddoboy]

Again, no. As proof - your posts here.

You have got it all arse up and lack the courage to admit you are wrong. The "pet names" usage and the warning by Bells, was in relation to the forum members addressing each other. That was childishly started by Seattle.

 

[paddoboy]

@ paddoboy

but if women weren't kept in the backdrop for so many years, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If men had treated women with equality since the dawn of time, we wouldn't have all this strife. Less than one hundred years ago, women didn't have the right to vote in the US. Women couldn't have their own property, and in fact, in some countries, women are considered property of men. Men haven't had a cake walk in history, but they haven't had the same history as women, and so...if we're going to ever understand one another, we have to remember that our ''differences'' go way back, in terms of inequality.

Well said and no argument from me.
The actual bone of contention wegs is that to simply even mention and start a thread that highlights an alternative where women are at fault, albeit a small percentage of the overall numbers, is unforgivable and taboo to some.
It certainly was not taboo to the two blokes in the OP on the receiving end.

 

[exchemist]

Well...if you don’t mind being called honey and all that by strangers, no worries. There is a local mechanic who calls me “sweetheart” and I don’t really care because I don’t work with him. I still think it’s weird that he feels the need to call me this, but he calls all the customers I’ve noticed, different nicknames.

But maybe another woman might mind, so I can only speak for me. At work though? I don’t want to be called any “nicknames.”

I don’t call strangers anything. If I need help in a store I walk over to an employee and say “excuse me, can you help me?”

I don’t get the need to add a nickname lol That’s just me.

This is a complicated thing. There is a woman at the local petrol station store that calls everyone "my darling". It reminded me of the ubiquitous "habibi", when I was in Dubai in the 80s. Is there something like this in Iran? There are numerous regional variants in England, e.g. "pet", "duck" or "love".

All are terms of endearment that have become downgraded to being little more than verbal tics. I have never used any of these, first because I am a man and I always thought it might be thought "forward" - or, now that I am old, frankly creepy - and second because it tends to be a working class habit and I have had a solid middle class upbringing, so it wouldn't ring true in my mouth.

This whole discussion makes me think there is a great deal to be said for the French practice of formal politeness, opening every exchange, of whatever kind, with someone who you do not know by name by saying Bonjour Monsieur or Madame, (and responding in kind when so addressed). It shows respect and always gets people on your side, I find.

 

[billvon]

You have got it all arse up and lack the courage to admit you are wrong.

?? You claimed you were being "silenced." Specifically you bitched about "the extreme actions by some to silence such news." As proof you have not been silenced, I present over a dozen posts in this thread where you called people "sweetie" or "love" and defended your right to call people that. That is the opposite of being silenced.

It will be difficult to maintain such lies when people can simply read your previous posts to find out the truth. Do you have the courage to admit what you posted?