Proof there is a God

[Xelasnave.1947]

Define the ''character'' of God.

You have a grammar glitch.
I did not seek to define the character of a mythical character.
That I leave to you to avoid.

Is eternity a fact?

OK I will play... Yes eternity is a fact. There you go an openning to make a point, go for it Jan.
Now you say if eternity is a fact that means....

Can you get your head around infinity, thats a great chat subject.
I notice you have been a member here for a long time its such a pity I missed the threads you have been involved in, I bet you have taken some scalps.
Its so hard to have a stimulating chat I find, do you, I bet you think similar

Alex

 

[Billy T]

Jan: at your request I found and posted in post 1216 some scripture about creation (Gen. 1:14-18) which you said you would discuss, but you did not. Is reason why you did not, that that Biblical texts is totally wrong in EVER aspect? - I. e. completely contradicted by modern scientific knowledge.

For example: Our small sun is one of the last to be made, not like the first which are 100 or more times more massive (as the gas clouds they formed from in the then smaller universe were much denser back when stars first formed). Likewise the earth and moon were not created on the same day, nor even approximately the same era. The moon recently joined the Earth, probably is parts of earth blasted out and mixed with parts of the body that impacted earth.

We know the moon initially orbited earth between 3 and 5 earth radii away, but due to tidal forces has been moving farther away from earth ever since. Now at ~220 earth radii away and escaping more slowly as the tides are much smaller now (not hundreds of feet high as they once were – possibly a factor in how life was moved to dry land.)

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Jan: at your request I found and posted in post 1216 some scripture about creation (Gen. 1:14-18) which you said you would discuss, but you did not. Is reason why you did not, that that bibical texts is totally wrong in EVER aspect? - I. e. completely contrdicted by modern scientific knowledge.

For example: Our small sun is one of the last to be made, not like the first which are 100 or more times more massive (as the gas clouds they fromed from in the then smaller universe were much denser back when stars first fromed). Likewise the earth and moon were not created on the same day, nor even approximately the same era. The moon recently joined the Earth, probably is parts of earth blasted out and mixed with parts of the body that impacted earth. We know the moon intitially orbited earth between 3 and 5 earth radii away, but due to tidal forces has been moving farther away from earth ever since. Now at ~220 earth radii away.

I have established to my satisfaction that Jan is not reading things carefuly.
It is rather easy to slip things thru such as your unanswered post. I think it is oversite as opposed to ignoring things. Fatal mistake.

Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

You have a grammar glitch.

Why?

I did not seek to define the character of a mythical character.

Of course you didn't. I wouldn't if I was in your position.
But I'm asking you to.
Are you going to decline, or step up?

OK I will play... Yes eternity is a fact. There you go an openning to make a point, go for it Jan.
Now you say if eternity is a fact that means....

Relax, I'm on your side.
Is the objective material world you experience, eternal?

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jan: at your request I found and posted in post 1216 some scripture about creation (Gen. 1:14-18) which you said you would discuss, but you did not. Is reason why you did not, that that Biblical texts is totally wrong in EVER aspect? - I. e. completely contradicted by modern scientific knowledge.

For example: Our small sun is one of the last to be made, not like the first which are 100 or more times more massive (as the gas clouds they formed from in the then smaller universe were much denser back when stars first formed). Likewise the earth and moon were not created on the same day, nor even approximately the same era. The moon recently joined the Earth, probably is parts of earth blasted out and mixed with parts of the body that impacted earth.

We know the moon initially orbited earth between 3 and 5 earth radii away, but due to tidal forces has been moving farther away from earth ever since. Now at ~220 earth radii away and escaping more slowly as the tides are much smaller now (not hundreds of feet high as they once were – possibly a factor in how life was moved to dry land.)

Billy T, you are talking about the modern Christian perspective, a religious one. The modern Christian accepts that genesis is the beginning point of Earth, Heaven, plants, animals, humans, etc...

I don't accept that the Bible says that, and I personally don't believe that.
IOW, you could be right about the sun and moon origin, but I don't think ''Let there be light, and there was light" represent their absolute origin.

I asked you to look for scriptural information that details this universe (as in it absolute beginnings).

jan.

 

[Billy T]

I have established to my satisfaction that Jan is not reading things carefuly. ... Alex

That is possible, but more often than not, he does not reply (or if he does it is basically irrelavant - avoiding the questions to restate his POV.
For example watch how he responds to the two questions in the next post, 1247.)

BTW you quoted me quickly. Before I edited. If you still can, please replace your post 1243 quote of me with text of 1242. Thanks.

 

[Billy T]

Billy T, you are talking about the modern Christian perspective, a religious one. The modern Christian accepts that genesis is the beginning point of Earth, Heaven, plants, animals, humans, etc... jan.

Does that mean you believe that land animals and plants were not very slowly evolved from life in the sea? Do your deny that for most of earth's history, before green plants, the atmosphere was "oxygen free" until green plants "polluted it" with O2?

 

[Baldeee]

The modern Christian accepts that genesis is the beginning point of Earth, Heaven, plants, animals, humans, etc...

Why do you think that (of the modern Christian)?
Certainly some of the more fundamentalist sects do, but you do seem to be generalising rather a bit.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Why?

How should I know it was your glitch.

Of course you didn't. I wouldn't if I was in your position.
But I'm asking you to.
Are you going to decline, or step up?

How can I define, determine, discuss or describe a mythical character, do you expect me to make something up? I will step up and decline your request that I engage in dishonesty.

Relax, I'm on your side.
Is the objective material world you experience, eternal?

I am relaxed but I feel uncomfortable when someone tells me they are on my side and more so when clearly we are really not on the same side.
It is my personal subjective world I regard as eternal but I have already told you tbat so I can not understand why you ask the same question other than you gloss over wbat I have written, that makes me (and others) wonder about your sincerity. Jan are you being sincere and do you seek enlightenment.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

That is possible, but more often than not, he does not reply (or if he does it is basically irrelavant - avoiding the questions to restate his POV.
For example watch how he responds to the two questions in the next post, 1247.)

BTW you quoted me quickly. Before I edited. If you still can, please replace your post 1243 quote of me with text of 1242. Thanks.

I dont think I can.
Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

Does that mean you believe that land animals and plants were not very slowly evolved from life in the sea? Do your deny that for most of earth's history, before green plants, the atmosphere was "oxygen free" until green plants "polluted it" with O2?

How is this relevant to our discussion?

Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

How should I know it was your glitch.

You're funny.

How can I define, determine, discuss or describe a mythical character, do you expect me to make something up? I will step up and decline your request that I engage in dishonesty.

So why is God a made up mythical character, and not a real character, in your opinion?

I am relaxed but I feel uncomfortable when someone tells me they are on my side and more so when clearly we are really not on the same side.
It is my personal subjective world I regard as eternal but I have already told you tbat so I can not understand why you ask the same question other than you gloss over wbat I have written, that makes me (and others) wonder about your sincerity. Jan are you being sincere and do you seek enlightenment.

Don't be afraid, it's a very simple question.
What could possibly go wrong?

Jan.

 

[Dywyddyr]

I have established to my satisfaction that Jan is not reading things carefuly.
It is rather easy to slip things thru such as your unanswered post. I think it is oversite as opposed to ignoring things. Fatal mistake.

It doesn't matter whether he reads carefully ore not.
Jan is incapable of genuinely questioning his belief and will avoid, obfuscate, nit-pick and lie to preserve it.
You are most definitely wasting your time.

 

[Baldeee]

Seems he cherry-picks which questions he responds to as well.
Either that or I'm on his ignore list.

 

[DaveC426913]

What's circular?

By what logic do you hold the scriptures as true, such that you can define God by them?
If you do not offer them as evidence (i.e. objective, falsifiable by independent parties), then how are they more than the written beliefs of earlier civilizations, who had little sophistication in the way of distinguishing natural phenomena from supernatural phenomena?

I'm not sure why I'm entertaining this, you almost certainly won't provide an answer; you'll simply ask another question.

The case for God has not passed in over 1200 posts. It's not going to, unless you or someone else actually puts a case forth and defends it. Asking more questions does not a case make.

 

[DaveC426913]

Define the ''character'' of God.

As before, why is it necessary to define one (alleged) mythical god from another (alleged) mythical god?

If Alex declared that Mickey Mouse were a fictional character, would you require him to define which Mickey Mouse?
If one of these were fictional, would you assume the other is not?

 

[exchemist]

Why do you think that (of the modern Christian)?
Certainly some of the more fundamentalist sects do, but you do seem to be generalising rather a bit.

Dead right! The modern Christian who belongs any mainstream denomination, say Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist, Presbyterian, does NOT think this. All these denominations are well aware that the Genesis stores are allegories, containing truths about the human condition and Man's relationship with God, but not to be taken literally as accounts of how the natural world came to be.

 

[DaveC426913]

Jan is incapable of genuinely questioning his belief

And there's nothing wrong with that. Spiritual beliefs are deeply personal and private. They do not need defending.
Normally.
Unless one posts them on a forum as if they were a valid argument and engages in discussion about them. Then they need to be defended.

Jan needs only to acknowledge that his beliefs are his own, that they are enough for him, and that they should not be displayed for scrutiny.

Well, he has acknowledged it implicitly. After 1200 posts, he hasn't proffered a case that he will defend.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

It doesn't matter whether he reads carefully ore not.
Jan is incapable of genuinely questioning his belief and will avoid, obfuscate, nit-pick and lie to preserve it.
You are most definitely wasting your time.

Jan holds a belief that she is superior to those he engages with and uses the antominity of the net to prove to herself she better in her mind than others. There is no intention to engage in the discussion she claims she wants to have that is clear to all.
She does not like men because in the real world they do not treat her well and she suffers in silience but has her revenge tormenting men here who she feels are less than intelligent. I feel sorry for her so I let her enjoy her fantacy and am able to write this knowing it will not be read or replied to... Now it does not mean I am right but I thought I would try my hand at makebelieve.
My goal here is to waste time I find myself in a place I dont want to be and the most trivial of diversion suits my purpose. Not in prison by the way.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

You're funny

Thank you.. Funny ha ha or funny peculiar?

So why is God a made up mythical character

I dont know he is your made up mythical character and yet you have to ask others for help which you are driven to side step.
Try to go back and remember the image you formed as a child during you indoctrination.

Don't be afraid, it's a very simple question.
What could possibly go wrong?

That is what I and other members have been pointing out to you it is indeed a simple question that you fortunately avoid to answer.
I understand why you can not answer, all members understand why you can not answer but we want to help you.
Firstly this thread it is not about you notwithstanding your constant attempts to hold center stage.... Well in your mind its all about you but you choose to tug at others rejection of superstition to convince yourself you are superior. Saying you hold a belief and then fail to opperate as one could if the scriptures had had any influence in a positive sence shows a insecurity I feel you should acknowledge if you are to gain the respect of others you so desparately crave.
But I do like you and respect you which comes from my heart and if it helps you to grow I will happily participate.
And I dont expect you to change stay as sweet as you are.

Alex