Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

Re: Re: Sure God exists!!! ABSOLUTELY!!

Originally posted by Sir. Loone



The 'worm' that dieth not!!:rolleyes:
There is such a thing, believe it or not, but would be something far worst then "Howardstern" for many!

JESUS THE MISIAH SAVES SOULS FROM HELL'S FIERRY!:eek: :)

:p Sir Loone? your name fits!, you I can see are a lost puppy bible thumper from the south eh?

Cool answer me this, "First there's Adam, then god made Eve from Adams limb correct?, ok, then they procreate have two children, *here there's an understanding that there's only 4 people on Earth* correct?, ok, lets move on, The two children named one Able the other Caine, ok correct? good, it gets better, Able kills Caine, then god vanishes Able from Eden correct? ok, How the hell can Able get married elsewhere with another woman? when there's only suppose to be 4 people on Earth?"
 
Godless

we've been down this path before....and got nowhere.

(BTW don't expect an answer from "sir" Loone...unless you are happy with "sound bite" preaching)


I actually asked what the deal was back then with procreation etc...now the god lovers told me that Adam and Eve had MANY kids and only some were mentioned so there were more then 4 people...also at that time God hadn't decided that shagging your sister was bad...so all of adam and eve's kids were having it off with each other....anyways that was the answers I got...wish I could remeber the thread. They were poor answrs but there you go...


Also as a slight observation: Eve was made from Adams Rib...he got to keep his limbs :D
 
Oh! I always get confused which part of our anatomy

got sliced, lol, shagging sisters eh? no wonder they always tell us in church "we are all related" LOL.
 
"BROTHERLY" LOVE

Originally posted by Rambler
...also at that time God hadn't decided that shagging your sister was bad...so all of adam and eve's kids were having it off with each other....
Also as a slight observation: Eve was made from Adams Rib...he got to keep his limbs :D

Let's take the leap...

(case#1)Eve was made from Adam's rib, therefore she is essentially a part of him. Today's standards would classify this as cloning, except for the sex change thing. This is nonetheless a clear case of INCEST. Scientifically, that would explain the diminished mental capacity of the sons. How did this family from one miraculously populated the entire Earth.

(case#2)The great flood....we've all heard the story. The Earth was flooded and everything was killed off except the inhabitants of the ark. So basically, we're talking about eight family members miraculously repopulating the Earth. Another clear case of INCEST.

(verdict of both cases)INCEST IS AS BIBLICAL AS ONE CAN GET. IT CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE ORIGIN OF THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY. THIS WOULD ALSO CLARIFY RAMBLER'S SIGNATURE QUOTE AS MEANING THEY'RE INBRED.


...Have you ever noticed how Creationists look so Un-evolved??........ Bill Hicks (Arizona Bay)CREDIT RAMBLER
 
*Originally posted by Cris
Would your god consider that you are using your time wisely or just see you as wasting your time on heathens and us lost souls that will never change.
*

As I understand it, you've changed several times.
Non-Christian to Christian.
Christian to Hindu in the form of TM.
Now, agnostic or atheist, although you appear to not have made up your mind.

Consider this our attempt to help you decide whether you are atheist or agnostic.

*Give us up and find others that are more gullible and easier targets.*

Gullibility isn't the issue.
You seem rather vague in your beliefs and we simply wish to give you an opportunity to choose between deciding that there is no God, or deciding that you don't know whether there is a God, or not.

Of course, if you choose the latter, we'd have to help you decide whether you do know there is no God, or whether you do know there is God.

*Originally posted by Godless
How the hell can Able get married elsewhere with another woman? when there's only suppose to be 4 people on Earth?"
*

And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
(Genesis 5:4, KJV).

Some people think that Adam didn't beget daughters until after he begat Seth, but "and" does not mean "after."

*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
INCEST IS AS BIBLICAL AS ONE CAN GET. IT CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE ORIGIN OF THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY.
*
You thought you could get in a little dig at the Christians.
It explains a few things about you, too, seeing as it is talking about the whole human race.

You are human, aren't you?
 
tony1...the answer to your question

Originally posted by tony1

*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
INCEST IS AS BIBLICAL AS ONE CAN GET. IT CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE ORIGIN OF THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY.
*
You thought you could get in a little dig at the Christians.
It explains a few things about you, too, seeing as it is talking about the whole human race.

You are human, aren't you?

What I simply said is if you believe in what the bible states than incest is biblical. Since some of the human race does not believe in your god, and some do not believe in any god, then no it does NOT refer to the "whole human race". It only refers to those who believe in the bible, followers of the christian faith.

And yes, I am human on my mother's side.:D
 
*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
What I simply said is if you believe in what the bible states than incest is biblical.
*
I get that.

* Since some of the human race does not believe in your god, and some do not believe in any god, then no it does NOT refer to the "whole human race". It only refers to those who believe in the bible, followers of the christian faith.*

The truth refers to everybody.
The truth doesn't change just because someone doesn't believe it.
 
Not quite tony1

Originally posted by tony1
The truth doesn't change just because someone doesn't believe it.

That statement is not necessarily true, many convicted felons would beg to differ. Recently a man here in Louisiana was released from jail after serving 19+ years. A DNA test that wasn't available because technology hadn't advanced that far when he was convicted proved his innocence. Throughout his sentence he swore his innocence, but the convicting jury did not believe him. So, I'll say this, if someone doesn't believe it, then the truth means nothing.

The truth might set you free, but 19+ years is one "helluva" test of his faith!!! Although he didn't thank god for his release in the press conference. Maybe he learned the real truth while serving his god forsaken sentence!!!!!!!!!
 
*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
Throughout his sentence he swore his innocence, but the convicting jury did not believe him. So, I'll say this, if someone doesn't believe it, then the truth means nothing.
*

It meant release after 19+ years for that guy.

It also means that the people who didn't believe the truth were WRONG.
 
I tend to run from people who use the word truth. How can we define the truth? What if we have differing perceptions? Who is deemed to have the correct perception?

Cris had some interesting points. How can a person accept two facts that are in diametric opposition. It is a common belief that man has freewill and so many believe in a god. It is just a wonderous trick acheived by the brain that allows us to compartmentalize data. 1984 was a good foreshadow to this area of thinking.

I have another issue with those who practice Christian religions. Their main character stated plainly that organized practice such as Churches, were evil. Was it not he that knocked the collection tables over? Is it not a common practice of Churches to hand out collection plates? If this is not a hypocritical practice than I cannot consider any practice to be such.
 
The Christian God...

Just as anything else, only exists for those who belives in it and are aware of it and the concept. And since the concept of the christian God is so firmly planted in humanity today, almost everybody is aware of it, then it´s more likely to actually exist, but there is no way to prove it. The belief in itself can generate another form of existence. The Christian God only exist because people believe in it. If people stopped then that lifeform would transform itself to its original form and identity, that is not dependable on the human belief system. It has taken that form to please us, out of love. To join the game. It´s a question of if you want to be in or out, do you want to play or don´t you? :p

That is what I think anyway....:) and another thing I think, is that anybody that claimes to know the truth is less likely to actually know the truth. ;)
 
There ARE no truths!!

There ARE no truths.... sounds corny, I know, but it's one of my fundamental beliefs. With that said, lets consider the history of religion over the course of say... the last 8,000 years. I won't go into one my typical 10 page rants, so I'll make this brief and to the point.

What makes you think that after 15K years (maybe longer, it's always up for debate), humans would suddenly "Get it right" in the last few thousand, and discover "God"? Why do Christians have such a hard time drawing lines between thier "God" and the "God" of any other people at any other point in History? Why do they not thank the Romans for actually letting their religion have a chance? Were it not for a certain Ceasar (the name escapes me, but I'm sure someone here can recall), Christianity would have remained the tiny little cult it was. One Ceasar made it the official religion of the Empire, and suddenly Christianity was famous. I notice they give no credit to anyone other than themselves or their "God" for it's success.

I also see it like this; If I was a God, and I wanted people to worship me, why on Earth would I choose an obscure and almost ineffective way of showing my power? Why would my biggest (unverifable) act be letting my envicar die? And die miserably at that?

LOOK AT MY ALLMIGHTY AND AWSOME POWER!!! I SHALL LET YOU DRAG MY SON THROUGH THE STREETS, BEAT HIM, STARVE HIM, AND THROW THINGS AT HIM UNTIL HE'S UNRECOGNIZABLE AS A MAN!!! FEAR ME!!!!

If I was inventing a religion, I can think of a lot better stories to make up than that.... I mean the flood, that wasn't so bad. You guys should run with that. Maybe do a quick re-write of that book of yours, and you might get some more members. It's already been re-written several times by different people (shhhh!! Don't tell anyone!), so why not just sit down and do it again? You need a good story to draw people nowadays, and guys. Guys. That whole "sheep" theme, has GOT to go. "Blood of the Lamb", sacrificing sheep to Him, come into the "flock", etc. Why not go for something more trendy like.... "Gang"? Or, if you insist upon the whole sheep thing, why not "Lamb of the Bloods". At least then, you might catch some of that inner city crowd. Just some helpfull hints!

--LM
 
<b><i>Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. [i.e. of sin]
</i></b>

If Christianity were just a made-up religion, you would have a great point. But His death was necessary to pay for our sins. When we put our faith in him, we acknowledge our sin, and the fact that its penalty has been pre-paid by Christ.

You are also mistaken when you say that this death was his greatest act. His greatest act was not just his death, but his <b>RESURECTION</b> 3 days later. And this is a historicaly verifiable fact. The Christian Church can be traced back qute early in its history, and new papyrological research is showing that the gospels were probably written substantially earlier than the unproven method of "litery criticism" has suggested. Josephus, the great Jewish historian, though not himself a Christian, mentions them in his writtings, and the fact that they believed in a resurected Messiah. There were 500 witnesses mentioned by Paul who saw the risen Saviour. One of the biggest evidences of his resurection was the fact that the church began at all (and I mean b4 Constantine politicized the whole thing). You start with a small band of followers who were scared out of their wits by the crucifixion of their leader. They were like "sheep without a shepherd". Why should they continue to follow a dead man? They almost quit right there. But then something changed their lives. They went from scattering and hiding, to laying the foundations for one of the world's largest religions.

~Caleb
 
Caleb, to destroy the good, for the wicked makes no sense!!.

Originally posted by Caleb
<b><i>Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. [i.e. of sin]
</i></b>

If Christianity were just a made-up religion, you would have a great point. But His death was necessary to pay for our sins. When we put our faith in him, we acknowledge our sin, and the fact that its penalty has been pre-paid by Christ.

You are also mistaken when you say that this death was his greatest act. His greatest act was not just his death, but his <b>RESURECTION</b> 3 days later. And this is a historicaly verifiable fact. The Christian Church can be traced back qute early in its history, and new papyrological research is showing that the gospels were probably written substantially earlier than the unproven method of "litery criticism" has suggested. Josephus, the great Jewish historian, though not himself a Christian, mentions them in his writtings, and the fact that they believed in a resurected Messiah. There were 500 witnesses mentioned by Paul who saw the risen Saviour. One of the biggest evidences of his resurection was the fact that the church began at all (and I mean b4 Constantine politicized the whole thing). You start with a small band of followers who were scared out of their wits by the crucifixion of their leader. They were like "sheep without a shepherd". Why should they continue to follow a dead man? They almost quit right there. But then something changed their lives. They went from scattering and hiding, to laying the foundations for one of the world's largest religions.

~Caleb

Why destroy that which is good, and ideal image of god, for the wickedness and sinfulness of others? it makes no sence, Would you punish your children as such? the little boy did something bad, he broke your computer, the little girl never touched it, are you going to punish her instead? Your god uses this idealogy!!.
 
That's a poor analogy.

Death came by one and life came by one. I think God's got it straightened out. Those who believe in him are not subject to Adam's sin (death). Those who reject God...yeah if it weren't for Adam's sin you'd be perfect.

Ben
 
LOOK AT MY ALLMIGHTY AND AWSOME POWER!!! I SHALL LET YOU DRAG MY SON THROUGH THE STREETS, BEAT HIM, STARVE HIM, AND THROW THINGS AT HIM UNTIL HE'S UNRECOGNIZABLE AS A MAN!!! FEAR ME!!!!

That was great. I think the stories are hackneyed, at best. The comparison to sheep is pathetic because it has relevance. Like sheep they follow blindly, never questioning.

It seems to me that the stories I am familiar with all involve the God character screwing with peoples lives, making bets and forcing people into evil acts. That was just the first book.

The second book is weird beacause it's basically the same story told by multiple people. Only about 1% of the stories are plausable and this leaves us with some crazy lunatic that ran into a city, knocked down some tables, was betrayed, then was caught and hung. We have every reason to believe that the death was not by choice and yet modern dogma would deny such a thought as heresy. How does some Jewish guy dying 19?? years ago pay for the sins of man? Have you ever seen a person ressurected? If he was ressurected then why didn't he stay so? Wouldn't the act of coming back erase the act of dying? There are fundamental errors in the logic of this story, but that can be said of all the stories.

What kind of fiction is this, horror? Shouldn't the book resemble the principles it was built on?
 
I suppose I should tell you why I wrote this book, well, it's like this. I was drifting from church to church looking for the right one. The true church. Unfortunately it seemed that none of them upheld the correct doctrines. My eternal soul is begging for salvation and there seemed no one was here to help me. I was very depressed. But I still read the Bible cover to cover, over and over. One day as I was reading through James and read the passage "If any man lacks wisdom let him ask God." I don't know why I hadn't noticed it before. I quickly ran to the woods and tripped over a log in my hurry. Since I was on my knees anyway at this point I decided this is where I should pray.
Dear God,

I am young and pretty ignorant according to most people. I've read your book and enjoy it greatly. Well lately it seems like none of the churches around here have the truth. Can you tell me which is the true church? It says here you'll give me wisdom if I ask. I want to know.

Amen.

There was a bright light that shined above my head as I finished my prayer. I tried to look up but was blinded. "Hello, I'm Jesus Christ." Came a voice, "You know you're right, these churches are all corrupt. Bunch of a apostates. You know they all came from that whore of Babylon. What do you expect?" "Wow, Jesus Christ, will you sign my book?" I asked eagerly. "That book is a waste of time. Do you really believe that after 2000 years, it has stayed the same?" Jesus then floated the book out of my hands and burned it in mid air. "Tell you what I'm going to do. I am going to help you right a new book. One that is not corrupt." "But who would believe it came from you?" "You ever seen a Tel-evangelist?" "Well, yeah." "You tell people 'Jesus said so' and most people will believe anything you have to say." "Oh. Neat."

"But wait, doesn't there need to be two or three witnesses?" "Kid you got me cornered. Meet my dad." Another light came down from the sky. I looked and say a man with a great white beard and a slightly off white rob. "Hi. This is Jesus, my kid, in who I am well pleased." I could only stare in amazement. "Do you have a name?" "Father." "Oh…neat." "I got work to do, call me if you need me." And the light went away. "Well, what about the Holy Ghost?" Jesus looked around quick and then pointed to a tree. In it was a dove. "He's the quiet type." A light shined down on the dove and apparently scared it. The bird flew into the street and got nailed by a semi truck. "Gasp." I could only stare. "Come on, we have work to do." "But…"

Over the next several months I listened to the doctrines of Jesus and wrote them down. Most of the time Jesus sat in the recliner watching PAX TV cursing everyone who said "Jesus said so." He also drank a lot of wine. I began to think he really was a wine-o. But I couldn't complain, he tells the best stories when he's drunk.

Within a year I was ready to tell the world. I titled the book, "What Jesus Really Said." I was horrified at the response. Everyone was calling me the apostate. I tried to tell them it was all true. I ran crying home and went up to Jesus as asked "I thought you said…" "Are you better than me? I tried to tell people myself and within three years I was nailed to a cross. Do you have any idea how much that stings?" "I understand…." "Go back out there and preach the good news. Soon they will see your strength in the face of adversity and they will begin to follow you."

Sure enough. After being hit by a few cars, tarred and feathered, shot a couple time, I got a following. And soon after that I was on TV. FOX gave me the spot. The show was titled "Who Wants to Listen to a Jesus Freak?" I was living large. I had fame, money and Jesus Christ living in my home.

Then one day I returned home to find only a note. "Tomorrow your life will be required of you. Just make sure you call it martyrdom. Jesus" "Christ…" Well I went to bed and prepared myself for the next day. I went into the studio and took my seat. The show went on and out of the audience came a shot. Hit me right in the chest. I knew it was over but I would go to hell rather than not take my revenge on my killer. I spotted him in the audience and pulled out my gun from my desk and shot him in the head. "I have been slain as a lamb at the slaughter!" I died a happy man.

As I stood before the pearly gates I saw Jesus walk over. "Hey, how's it going?" I asked. "Going great! Thanks to your martyrdom I've got claims on millions of souls. Come with me!" He took my hand and walked me away from the gates. "Wait a second…shouldn't I be going through the gates?" "I know another way in." He responded. Well I knew that teaching. As sure enough there I was. Sitting in hell watching Tel-evangelists for all eternity on PAX TV. Jesus turned into his true form and sat down in his chair and began drinking wine and pointing out which were quotes from him. "You know, you say you're Jesus Christ and people will believe anything you tell them."

So that is why I am writing this book. Because just reading the Bible is not a substitute for understanding it. Because just blindly following those you trust is not a wise thing to do. I want to write a book that makes you think about what you believe and why. I don't expect anyone to agree with everything contained in "The Book of Ben" but I would hope everyone who reads it will take the time to consider what it says and take the time to evaluate it by the scriptures to see what they really say.

I am an Athiest and I think that story is good.
 
tony1 let's try this

Originally posted by tony1
It meant release after 19+ years for that guy.

How about we lock you up for 19+ years for something you didn't do, then ask if you feel the same way. I seriously doubt that you will. Wanna try?????
 
Re: tony1...the answer to your question

Originally posted by DEVILDOG


What I simply said is if you believe in what the bible states than incest is biblical. Since some of the human race does not believe in your god, and some do not believe in any god, then no it does NOT refer to the "whole human race". It only refers to those who believe in the bible, followers of the christian faith.

And yes, I am human on my mother's side.:D

Incest would be 'adultery' in one's own family! Sin. And the Bible is to all of Humanity, whether they believe not, herd not, or believe on Him that sent the Holy Word of GOD!

The truth of GOD's Holy Word is Absolute, and final authority in all creation!!
:)
 
Originally posted by tony1

It meant release after 19+ years for that guy.

It also means that the people who didn't believe the truth were WRONG.

What if he died one day before the DNA report?

Does the truth mean anything, then? Or should I ask, does the truth matter to a dead man?
 
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