Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

[Raion]

You have permission to control or get rid of - your anger!
Only then will you see all of the negativity that was within you!
Does that change anyone else?
Not really, but then you will have a different reality.
And God may decide that it was not good, and destroys the Heavens and the Earth, for it was He who created it.
Which attitude are you of -- perhaps indifference?
But, life is here in this Universe, and ying and yang, and all of it.


Space aliens dumped humans here at the far reaches of the Galaxy, they figured it would take many, many, many years to find others, and simply did not want to be bothered by humans anymore.

Planet Earth, a spaceship of time and space, roaming the Universe along with the mothership, the Milky Way Galaxy, and humans can not control it or the other 50 local galaxies we're travelin' with through space and time.

I would be concerned, a terrible something or other may happen to all of humanity, at any time.

 

[tony1]

Originally posted by Raion
I would be concerned, a terrible something or other may happen to all of humanity, at any time.

Safe bet.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(2 Peter 3:10-12, KJV).

 

[dan1123]

Or else that inextricable hostage-status is all part of His master plan.

Sure, why not? At one point I wondered why people loved stories where the hero comes into some sort of conflict with some evil enemy, and after a battle, the hero comes out victorious in the end. How often does that happen in real life? I haven't witnessed anything like that. In the real world, if the hero gets a victory, the hero himself has some flaw that taints it in some way.

So why do we like those types of stories? I think (wild speculation to ensue) we might be living in some vast piece of literature of the type that I explained above. And God is reading/writing/watching/interacting with us as humanity carries on until the end.

Something to think about.

 

[Tiassa]

Something to think about indeed, sir

Dan--

The problem is that I can't escape one thing: The inextricable hostage thing seems to remove free will. It also makes the whole schmoo seem pointless save for feeding the Almighty Ego.

Really, it keeps coming back to that. The contradictions of Christian faith are only important because Christians act on them in a manner that seems arbitrary. If you're all being blackmailed, that explains a good deal, though.

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[Sir. Loone]

Look in the Mirror! Acident?

GOD exist inspite of the worlds view of the Day! And contradictions in the Bible mentioned can be easily misunderstood by the 'unregenerate' person that is really not interested in becoming a believer in our Judeo-Christian Faith! If you have bought the lie that matter is all there is, it will be one's downfall, there's truly is far more to life then what meets the eyes of man and science! If refuses to think more highly then Ignorance! "The 'fool' has said in his heart 'there is no God!" (Psalms 14:1)

 

[Sir. Loone]

Raion

Originally posted by Raion
You have permission to control or get rid of - your anger!
Only then will you see all of the negativity that was within you!
Does that change anyone else?
Not really, but then you will have a different reality.
And God may decide that it was not good, and destroys the Heavens and the Earth, for it was He who created it.
Which attitude are you of -- perhaps indifference?
But, life is here in this Universe, and ying and yang, and all of it.


Space aliens dumped humans here at the far reaches of the Galaxy, they figured it would take many, many, many years to find others, and simply did not want to be bothered by humans anymore.

Planet Earth, a spaceship of time and space, roaming the Universe along with the mothership, the Milky Way Galaxy, and humans can not control it or the other 50 local galaxies we're travelin' with through space and time.

I would be concerned, a terrible something or other may happen to all of humanity, at any time.

Space aliens dumped humans here at the far reaches of the Galaxy, they figured it would take many, many, many years to find others, and simply did not want to be bothered by humans anymore.

Not true! GOD Created us in 'His' image, and for His own good pleaser! We were certainly not put here by ETs! By the way where did they come from?

 

[Tiassa]

By the way where did they come from?

Zeta Reticuli. Incidentally, this is the question that Creationists seem to be afraid to answer, usually rendering time--and therefore all things occurring within its confines--to fiction. This is only problematic, then, since God would therefore be judging you on things that never really happened.

--Tiassa

 

[Sir. Loone]

Originally posted by tiassa

Zeta Reticuli.

Zeta Reticuli had to come from somewhere too! (though fiction)
GOD created all in the universe and beyond! And not afraid to answer questions about creation GOD as being the author of all that is, life and you!

 

[Tiassa]

Whatever, Loone

GOD created all in the universe and beyond!

You missed the point--surprise, surprise --and provided an example that can be turned around quite easily: God, though fictional, had to come from somewhere.

Alpha and Omega? God has no beginning? Then time itself becomes a fiction, and thus the things within time are fictitious, and God is Judging people for things that never really happened. When someone fails to understand the nature of their faith, as you continually demonstrate you have, they end up making irresponsible claims on His behalf, as you continually do.

At least pretend you know what the point is. With enough practice at that, you might actually come to know in the end.

,
Tiassa

 

[dan1123]

The problem is that I can't escape one thing: The inextricable hostage thing seems to remove free will. It also makes the whole schmoo seem pointless save for feeding the Almighty Ego.

Let's say that you're staying at a resort, and at the end of your stay you decide that you don't deserve to have to pay for your stay. So the owner of the resort threatens to have you sent to jail unless you do pay for his services. Are you a hostage in that situation, or do you owe someone for his services?

 

[Tiassa]

Whatever, Dan

Do you realize how greatly you tip your hand with the presuppositions of your analogy? Are we at the resort specifically because of the owner's will? Does the resort owner have the power to punish us merely because we don't want to be at his resort? How about just for not appreciating his taste? Does the resort owner govern our feelings as payment for our stay which is solely at his will? And does he have the right to punish us if he knows that we don't like the accommodations he has provided while placing us in his resort at his will so he can demand payment? (On edit): Do you realize that you have countered the question of whether or not an act is of free will by constructing an analogy that describes you performing an act of free will and then asking if it sounds like free will?

You really should leave it a little more abstract, Dan ... one invites all sorts of conceptual difficulties when boxing in an analogy to such limiting circumstances as the Bible offers.

It sounds like extortion--at least--to me.

,
Tiassa

 

[bdmart]

I don't know if I want to be drawed in this debate but I would like to say something. What about all the
archaeology discoveries that have been made I think theirs over 2,000 or more alone that proves the Bible
to be true. And not only that what about all the old testament prophecies That came to pass
concerning Jesus, birth, death and resurrection and no one else has fulfilled them or could fulfill them
except Jesus Christ whom you have crucified??

 

[Stretch]

Huh?

bdmart

What archeological discoveries? There are references to places and people, but no proof as to the divine nature of the Bible.

As to the prophecies, ask any Jew wether they have come to pass.

Take care

 

[Deadwood]

Zeta Reticuli.

That is a star in the Orion Constellation. So it is a real place. whether there is Intelligent lifeforms on it I personally couldn't say. Though they are termed the alien "greys" if you didn't know already.

You missed the point--surprise, surprise --and provided an example that can be turned around quite easily: God, though fictional, had to come from somewhere.

Lets turn that around a bit shall we. God is true, has always been and is everywhere.

Alpha and Omega? God has no beginning? Then time itself becomes a fiction

Instead of being fictitious time is created. If God created time, then He did not have to have a beginning as we know in time. He exists for eternity with no beginning and no end.

and God is Judging people for things that never really happened.

Now you're basing what Loone said by your own words and not what Sir Loone said. Do not alter peoples posts please. But yes, if everything that happens is fictitious I would have to agree with you, but we know that everything that has hapened is not fictitious.

bdmart

What archeological discoveries? There are references to places and people, but no proof as to the divine nature of the Bible.

Hey bdmart, 3 posts in 2 years hey? Well I put this link up sometime ago and did a search to find it and well here is a great link of an aerchealogist now deceased. Hope you enjoy it.

http://www.biblerevelations.org/ronwyatt.htm

As to the prophecies, ask any Jew wether they have come to pass.

Many Jews believe[d] in Jesus as Lord and Saviour, many Jews do not.

If you look at the Old Testament many of the Prophets that God had commisioned were killed, beaten and terribly treated. Whereas false prophets were praised, looked at as wise and from God, held in high esteem and well treated.

Here are some more links.

http://www.endtimes.org/messiah.html
http://www.bible.ca/b-prophecy-60.htm

for the second link if you want to look up the verses you may type in the passage as it says at www.biblegateway.com

Enjoy

 

[Tiassa]

Deadwood, you're starting to sound like Tony1

Lets turn that around a bit shall we. God is true, has always been and is everywhere.

But I'm sure you actually had a point in that, right? Or is it just the Tony1 inspired rubber-glue approach?

Instead of being fictitious time is created. If God created time, then He did not have to have a beginning as we know in time. He exists for eternity with no beginning and no end.

Nice excuse ... I'll have to think on this one for a while. No wonder God never changes.

Now you're basing what Loone said by your own words and not what Sir Loone said. Do not alter peoples posts please. But yes, if everything that happens is fictitious I would have to agree with you, but we know that everything that has hapened is not fictitious.

Oh, please, Deadwood ... Loone is perfectly capable of speaking for himself ... oh, wait ....

So please demonstrated how I have altered Loone's post. Although a bright guy like you--I'm sure you would have included that in your post if it was a valid point.

And how, sir, do we know that everything that has happened is not fictitious? And I do not refer here to the subjectivity of history and faith. I believe Descartes once posited the idea that our experiences are possibly dreams--someone else's. It is well-established among most people who aren't blinded by religious faith that nothing about reality is guaranteed. Reality itself can be established to be fictitious. Descartes is a good place to start, as I recall, and I'll have to dig up a couple of others for you if necessary.

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[Rambler]

Praise Tiassa....

You've hit the nail on the head!!!

You Wrote:
"When someone fails to understand the nature of their faith, .....they end up making irresponsible claims on His behalf...."



And that my dear friends is how the Bible came to be.



DeadWood!!!

HELLO!!!!! jews that belive Jesus to be the messiah are no longer Jews they are CHRISTAIN!!!! DER!!!!!

also I love how all your counter arguments are completely on your say so, great post

 

[dan1123]

Reality itself can be established to be fictitious. Descartes is a good place to start, as I recall, and I'll have to dig up a couple of others for you if necessary.

If I remember correctly, Descartes had to assume a Creator who would not deceive him in order to establish the reality of his surroundings.

You Wrote:
"When someone fails to understand the nature of their faith, .....they end up making irresponsible claims on His behalf...."



And that my dear friends is how the Bible came to be.

I would assume that you don't know very much about the differences in God described in the Bible versus the gods of other religions. Worshipping objects and forces of nature as things with wills of their own are far more apt to being misrepresented than the Bible. If a prophet claimed to speak for God in ancient Israel, and he wasn't 100% accurate, it was a death sentence. If one letter was wrong when the Bible was being copied in ancient times, the page was destroyed. The covenants described in the Bible show a God who gives Himself the hardest part of the deal--fitting if you're the most powerful one entering the deal. It shows a God who doesn't pass judgement until He is sure things are bad--a God who allows people to speak on behalf of others and is willing to bend over backwards for their requests. It also shows a God who is holy, to whom people dare not speak or look. He is described as far greater than the most powerful forces of nature--the light of the sun is described as being confounded in His presence. The Bible does not describe a god that can be explained away by a misunderstanding scientifically or philosophically. This is what makes the Bible compelling.

 

[Rambler]

Dan

Sorry about the format of my reply...

you wrote:
"If a prophet claimed to speak for God in ancient Israel, and he wasn't 100% accurate, it was a death sentence"

Who were the judges and executioners???, if it wasn't God himself (and I assume that is not what you are saying), then who were these people to assume the role of judgment on behalf of this spitefull God.

Next:
"It shows a God who doesn't pass judgement until He is sure things are bad--a God who allows people to speak on behalf of others and is willing to bend over backwards for their requests"

A god who doesn't pass judgement until he is sure things are bad...if we were to believe the bible, God would have known what will be before it happened, so in fact he would have judged us before we were even created. As to the rest of the above statement, I'm afraid it comes down to mere heresay, I can't believe that statement on your assertion alone since my experience with your God was anything but positive.

And Finally:
"The Bible does not describe a god that can be explained away by a misunderstanding scientifically or philosophically. This is what makes the Bible compelling."

No the Bible describes a God that can't be explained since nothing is known for certain, we are forced to rely on the stories (again without supporting evidence) of ancient people whom I might add have alot in common with Pagan mythology. And that is what makes the bible pure fiction, (not even an enaging fiction...).

 

[Caleb]

HELLO!!!!! jews that belive Jesus to be the messiah are no longer Jews they are CHRISTAIN!!!!

On the contrary, they are a completed Jew. They have discovered the ultimate in Judaism -- they have found the Messiah!!!

<i>Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"</i>

But one day:

<i>Zec 12:10 "...and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son..."

Rom 11:26-27 "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."</i>

Interestingly, there is rapid growth in the movement of Messianic Jews.

~Caleb

 

[rkmountain]

re:free will

Ok, so I looked up omnicient. It means having total knowlage-knowing everything. So I am confused. If God exists he could be omnicient and still allow free will in humans. Just because He may be omniscient doesn't mean he controls our lives or choices we make. Am I right?