Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

Your Life Has Meaning And Purpose!

Deadmen have met with their creator, GOD! If they have not believed in Him in life, they will be greatly surprised and terrified of the very truth of His existence!!:( :rolleyes: My GOD is a very real and Living Supreme Intelligent Person!! And we are made the image of the Creator GOD, and not apes, monkeys, slime! It is a good thing we are created in the image of GOD! Although our race is 'fallen,' we can come to know Him as Saviour, Helper, and Friend! But the ones that reject this will have a great problems with their philosophy of carnal-knowledge and science only! There are more then meets the eye in this universe, and most on this sight will have to learn the HARD WAY, OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION the FOOL and their lies will perish in the Earth, but the Word of a Holy GOD endures to the end! Forever! :mad: Have fun !:D JESUS IS WAITING, and He can still save the VILEST OF SINNERS EVER! The day of reckoning IS coming!! And is coming fast and furious!:( :) JESUS SAVES!
 
And the Bible is to all of Humanity, whether they believe not, herd not, or believe on Him that sent the Holy Word of GOD!
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ROFLOL

I LOVE it when they do this!!! I understand that no single person can be the absolute expert on any topic as broad as a religion, and that we (the non beleivers) pound them with our moral dellimas, and precise questions when they openly admit that they are imperfect and are only learning and striving to be the way that their GOD wants them to be. This, I understand, and I can forgive any answer of "I don't know." or "I'm not able to discuss that at this time....", "I'm not educated enough yet in the ways of my Lord to answer your questions..." or SOMETHING reasonable.

But when people resort to this mindless repetative dribble, THAT'S where I question the value in joining that group of people, especially a religion. If "The Book says", or "That's just the way He wants it" are as far as Christians can think on their own, then why not just give yourself a home lobotomy?! (they sell the kit: it's called the Bible)

Here's one for ya:

God wants us to know in NO UNCERTAIN terms that we are not perfect. That we can never be as good as him. Fine. (If a husband does that to his wife, it's called abuse though...) And we also know that the Book was written by mans own hand.

Lets turn this into a science experiment shall we? Take a clean glass of water (Gods word) and pour it though a motor-oil soaked cotton filter (man) into a jar (the Bible). Christians are drinking the water right out of that jar, and saying "MMMMMmmm!! That was good, GIMMIE SOME MORE!!!" If anyone says "Hey, there's something not quite right about that water..." they get chastised and told how they're going to die a million deaths and be forever parched if they don't partake of the water! Here comes another Christain! Belly up!

Unless God put the men that wrote the Bible into a higher position than his own "Son", making them MORE perfect that Jesus (Jesus basicly said "No" to God and wanted to die on Earth to absolve us of our sins, so he's obviously not as pefect as God) at least for long enough to write the Bible, then how can you argue that the Bible is truth? Do you REALLY think that all of us whom use our God given faculties (our minds) are tools of Satan? Last time I checked, Satan didn't have the power to CREATE, only to destroy....
 
What I find interesting...

..is how differently we chose to define truth. Some people believe that the truth is exclusively written down in one single book. Others think that it is to be found in the codes of nature, as DNA. And what is even more interesting is that almost all of the firm believers of one thesis or the other are ready and willing to judge the others to be wrong, sinners and so on. It is a bit frightening too, because it doesn´t always stop at arguing with words. People are ready to KILL to convince others that they are the sole owners of the truth. Is it worth it? To kill just to prove a point? How far are you personally ready to go to prove yours? And how important is it for you to have others believing you know the truth? :confused:
 
Very good point Belbelina!

Very good indeed! I have two things to add, both of minor note:

#1. Sir Loone is, indeed a "Loon"e

#3. Belbelina has been adding some excellent neutral ground comments to the subject at hand, and I wanted to thank her/him for adding some levity to what could become an otherwise heated topic.

#9. I am actually a beleiver, although not in the conventional sense, obviously. I choose to think, rather than to follow. I beleive that God will come to me on his own terms, and as to what God is, I dare not waste anymore brainpower on the issue. I have decided that it is simply something I am capable of not understanding. I do not presume to know Gods will, (unlike most people, Sir Loone included). I would consider pretending that I knew the extent of Gods power, or of Gods wishes blasphemy in the highest. Although 99% of Christians will tell you word for word what God wants. Because they interpreted it that way from the Bible.

Roll that one around in the ole brainpan for a while.

#31. Most of post #9 is BS, but I'll let you decide what parts. ;-)
 
Religion is powerful. It forces factions into mutual hate and can lead to bloody wars. The power lies in the symbols that mean more than human life. When a person will die to bolster his/her religion, then we know we have a problem. I have problems with people who would persecute or murder others based upon their religious background or lack thereof.

There seems to be a misconception about athiests of late. We are thought of as contraries bent on the destruction of all organized religion. Because we are so few we have been villified as an extremest faction. There may be such groups, but I have yet to see them. We do not pretend to hold all the answers to the universe. We accept the fact that a God may be possible, but think it unlikely. Above all else I look to one unifying principle as the single hope for human beings: reason. It was what got us into this mess, and hopefully it will get us out of this situation.

I respect everyone except those who say stupid things.
 
I'm not going to argue with anyone on this subject of 'the Christian God cannont exist' because I am a Christian, I just wanted to give a heads up to LordManimal because he said something that Christians don't usually acknowledge,
Satan didn't have the power to CREATE, only to destroy.
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That's all that I'm going to say right now because I don't want to have to open mouth insert foot.
 
Originally posted by LordManimal
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But when people resort to this mindless repetative dribble, THAT'S where I question the value in joining that group of people, especially a religion. If "The Book says", or "That's just the way He wants it" are as far as Christians can think on their own, then why not just give yourself a home lobotomy?! (they sell the kit: it's called the Bible)

Here's one for ya:

God wants us to know in NO UNCERTAIN terms that we are not perfect. That we can never be as good as him. Fine. (If a husband does that to his wife, it's called abuse though...) And we also know that the Book was written by mans own hand.
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LordManimal, I Sir. Loone do and will quote from the Holy Bible (the Word of GOD Himself) and the Bible does teach us to quote from it and that the words of 'wisdom' ARE OF A HIGHER AUTHORITY & INTELLIGENCE & WISDOM then that of men! The Word of GOD the Bible and our Faith (more then a 'religion') in the Lord JESUS, is the very foundation of our faith in GOD. JESUS is very real and He helped me out of a jam just the other day! :) When GOD looks on a truly born-again person, He see's JESUS's sacrifice for my sins and imperfections, paid in full! In a 'white robe', clean and forgiven, even if we sin we have an advocate with the Father GOD for forgiveness of sins! The Bible was written by holy men inspired by the Holy Spirit of GOD! And Man is in fact is created in the image of GOD his Creator! Even though we humans are a fallen race JESUS has made a way to GOD out of Love for humanity.

Lets turn this into a science experiment shall we? Take a clean glass of water (Gods word) and pour it though a motor-oil soaked cotton filter (man) into a jar (the Bible). Christians are drinking the water right out of that jar, and saying "MMMMMmmm!! That was good, GIMMIE SOME MORE!!!" If anyone says "Hey, there's something not quite right about that water..." they get chastised and told how they're going to die a million deaths and be forever parched if they don't partake of the water! Here comes another Christain! Belly up!
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LordManimal; Your science experiment is way off, not of reality. The Faith we have in the Lord Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit of GOD the Word of GOD purifies and cleans us from all unrighteousness! It is the Holy Spirit of GOD that really brings the Word (the 'Living Word') to life with understanding, so you read the Word of GOD, and the Spirit of GOD brings all things to remembrance that was read and the meaning of the Word of GOD is revealed to the Saints and then they give the message in the power of the Holy Spirit of GOD, so it IS FROM GOD! JESUS is the author of the Word and the Word from men that were 'created in the image of GOD' who wrote them, the Word was and is directly from GOD Himself, and not of man's cleverness! The Word of Truth is Truth! Bible is the inerrant Word of GOD Himself! GOD is a Spirit! And is a Person! Not and 'it,' nor a 'force!'

Unless God put the men that wrote the Bible into a higher position than his own "Son", making them MORE perfect that Jesus (Jesus basicly said "No" to God and wanted to die on Earth to absolve us of our sins, so he's obviously not as pefect as God) at least for long enough to write the Bible, then how can you argue that the Bible is truth? Do you REALLY think that all of us whom use our God given faculties (our minds) are tools of Satan? Last time I checked, Satan didn't have the power to CREATE, only to destroy....
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:)

That the Bible says that we, the humanrace all were created in the image of GOD! That GOD have used men to write the Holy Scriptures, still it is directly from GOD Himself and not of men's cleverness! If you want to see GOD look at JESUS! He is in the image of GOD (and Man), in fact, He is GOD, GOD with us!! So the Word of the Bible is His very Words. And Satan is a LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM! But did you not know that you are in the 'spirit of the Anti-Christ'!? It is the most dangerous position to be in! Warning to you! But even so, JESUS saves! It is still what is called 'the age of Grace', and hope someday soon you will find the true Truth of Truth! And not that of men that scorn that in which they do not, or refuse to understand!
 
Believe on GOD's Holy Word, and do not compromise!

Originally posted by LordManimal

#1. Sir Loone is, indeed a "Loon"e

#3. Belbelina has been adding some excellent neutral ground comments to the subject at hand, and I wanted to thank her/him for adding some levity to what could become an otherwise heated topic.

#9. I am actually a beleiver, although not in the conventional sense, obviously. I choose to think, rather than to follow. I beleive that God will come to me on his own terms, and as to what God is, I dare not waste anymore brainpower on the issue. I have decided that it is simply something I am capable of not understanding. I do not presume to know Gods will, (unlike most people, Sir Loone included). I would consider pretending that I knew the extent of Gods power, or of Gods wishes blasphemy in the highest. Although 99% of Christians will tell you word for word what God wants. Because they interpreted it that way from the Bible.

Roll that one around in the ole brainpan for a while.

#31. Most of post #9 is BS, but I'll let you decide what parts. ;-)
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LordManimal; If you are a Christian you should edify and 'correct' your fellow believer in Christ, lift up those that are in Christ!:) But the Bible does teach that you should not be a "fence straddler". If you be for JESUS and His Holy Word as a Final authority or not! There is no neutral ground with GOD. He says that to be for Me or against Me, not luke-warmness. If you have read that scripture you know the rest. Put GOD and His Holy Word First above all things, and be not ashamed of it before no one! If I make Biblical errors it is fine with me that it would be pointed out in love, not scorn, the Word of GOD really does tell us to do that! Bright, but immature is what I'm getting from you at the time but aren't we all just a little immature here? Right, all there is to know is revealed by the Holy Spirit of GOD, and not 'mind power' alone, that could not fathom the deaths of the Truth of the Holy Scriptures! Thank GOD He is "no respecter of persons", that He will reveal Himself to any that will ask for forgiveness, wisdom. Draw closer to the Truth 'LordManimal', to the Word of GOD as I and the rest of Christianity has to! Remember that "ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of GOD, there is none righteous, no not one." Watch your self pride, it is misleading. Go with JESUS and His Word as a finel authority (Bible). Or not at all, there is no compromise with GOD and His Holy Word! JESUS loves you!

I am leaning and growing in the Grace of GOD, and the Spirit of the witness is in me, I am not prideful , just doing it for the love of GOD!

Think,..JESUS says: "What so ever you do even unto the 'least' of these thy brother, you do it also unto me."
 
he he

You're persistant! I like you.

I actually had no intention of being sarcastic or comical either one in my last statement. (aside from the Sir Loone is a Loon part. ;-) And, if you take a closer look at an earlier statement:

I understand that no single person can be the absolute expert on any topic as broad as a religion, and that we (the non beleivers) pound them with our moral dellimas, and precise questions when they openly admit that they are imperfect and are only learning and striving to be the way that their GOD wants them to be. This, I understand, and I can forgive any answer of "I don't know." or "I'm not able to discuss that at this time....", "I'm not educated enough yet in the ways of my Lord to answer your questions..." or SOMETHING reasonable.
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You'll see that I hold no malice towards anyone, especially when they make mistakes. In fact, I am only "fairly well" versed in the bible myself, and in no position to point out errors without checking myself. I hold people that stick to their beliefs, regardless of circumstance or situation, in high regard in truth, but I do question the basis for your religion.

Like it or not, most thinking people would have to agree that organized religion is a good thing for people in this day and age. It forces a moral system on a society that if left to it's own devices, would most likely devour itself for lack of concience. I, however, choose to believe that mindlessly following an ideal that may or not be the "truth" (read Tegs post about TRUTH) is as dangerous as you believe that questioning the "truth" is. It's all a matter of perception, and perception is key.

To put it plainly: I do not disagree with your system, your religion or what makes you happy. Being a sheep in a herd. I DO however question how a thinking person with the best of intentions (like yourself) can allow yourself to be misled by one of the simplest of deceptions that Satan can accomplish. Didn't you read the story about "Say it in my name, and it's okay" or whatever it is? Some of the most vile acts in history were commited "In His name" and still are. Do you think that is what He wants?

Do you think He wanted Hitler to slay millions of his children? It was done in His name after all. Those "evil" Germans, were people JUST LIKE YOU whom believed what they were fed without considering it.

"Hitler says it's so, and thusly God must want it to be so. He believes that we are the Superior race. We must rid the world of the lessers. God wishes it. Glory to the Highest!!"

Can't you take off your own blinders and look at all the examples God has presented you? Don't you think that if you were Satan, one of the easiest things to do would be the manipulate the people with good intentions? "Psssst! God told me that he wanted you to pull down your pants and bend over....."
 
*Originally posted by Teg
How can we define the truth? What if we have differing perceptions?*
Truth is what falsehood opposes, and it doesn't depend on perception.

*Was it not he that knocked the collection tables over? Is it not a common practice of Churches to hand out collection plates?*

No, he knocked the money-changers' tables over.

*Originally posted by Bebelina
and another thing I think, is that anybody that claimes to know the truth is less likely to actually know the truth.*
Does it follow that anyone who claims to be lying is less likely to be lying?

*Originally posted by LordManimal
One Ceasar made it the official religion of the Empire, and suddenly Christianity was famous.*

You may be thinking of Constantine, and Catholicism.

*Originally posted by Teg
Like sheep they follow blindly, never questioning.*

You've obviously never seen sheep.

*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
How about we lock you up for 19+ years for something you didn't do, then ask if you feel the same way. I seriously doubt that you will.*

All you're doing is proving that the jurors who didn't believe the truth were WRONG.

*Originally posted by daktaklakpak
What if he died one day before the DNA report? *

The jurors would STILL be wrong.

*Originally posted by Bebelina
how differently we chose to define truth. Some people believe that the truth is exclusively written down in one single book. *

Since that book describes the Messiah, and you call yourself Messiah, I think I'll stick with the book.

*Originally posted by LordManimal
I beleive that God will come to me on his own terms*

Here are his terms...

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(Hebrews 11:6, KJV).

*Originally posted by Teg
We do not pretend to hold all the answers to the universe.*

We've noticed.

*We accept the fact that a God may be possible, but think it unlikely.*

Statistics at work.
If there were one trillion beings in the universe and only one is God, then statistically you'd be within 99.9999999% of being correct
But, you'd be wrong.

*Above all else I look to one unifying principle as the single hope for human beings: reason. It was what got us into this mess, and hopefully it will get us out of this situation. *

There is a rule of thumb type of definition of insanity floating around and it is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome.

*I respect everyone except those who say stupid things.*

Me, too. (see above)
 
;-p

There is a rule of thumb type of definition of insanity floating around and it is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome.
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Then explain why some poker players make a living at it? Ha!






































he he
 
Brilliant....

Cris,

How well thought out your initial post was! Brilliant! I have never quite seen it put to words that elegantly! "Kudos" indeed! I received a link here from a friend, and never quite made my way to the beginning post, and I only just now read it. I now find it quite facinating how the topic has been shifted from "facts" (facts are fickle things, are they not?) to a debate on morality....

I've nothing more to add, but another voice. I have considered this exact paradox for many a year now, and have reached the same conclusion. I have found however, that you can begin to breach even the most diehard religious fanatic, and hit some amount of "self" (thought that doesn't revolve around God, or that persons service to Him) after you cross this logic barrier. Although I have noticed that it makes them exceptionally uncomfortable, and they tend to write it off as a limitation of understanding that God assigned to them. They just weren't "meant" to understand.

Blah! Religion appears to be the end of concious thought, so I can understand how easy it is for them to accept the fact that the existance of their God is a paradox. They simply give up, and don't wish to fight any longer..... sounds like the Matrix, no?
 
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LordManimal, those are some very good points.

Tony1, I feel you were off on a few points:

*Originally poste by Tony1
*Originally posted by LordManimal
One Ceasar made it the official religion of the Empire, and suddenly Christianity was famous.*

You may be thinking of Constantine, and Catholicism

Drawing a line between Catholicism and Christianity is impossible. They are too close.

*Originally poste by Tony1
*Originally posted by Teg
How can we define the truth? What if we have differing perceptions?*
Truth is what falsehood opposes, and it doesn't depend on perception.

So then you are psychic? It is fun to think that a concept such as truth exists. There is an error in this thinking as we have no proven way of telling the difference between a lie and a truth.

*Originally poste by Tony1
*Originally posted by Teg
Like sheep they follow blindly, never questioning.*

You've obviously never seen sheep.

I have seen sheep. They are so easily rounded up by man and dog alike.

*Originally poste by Tony1
*Originally posted by Teg
We do not pretend to hold all the answers to the universe.*

We've noticed.

I may not hold every answer, but I can say with good probability that your book does not either. I have heard a lot about interpretation, but with enough interpretation I can find the answer to every question in The Catcher in the Rye

In the category of people who say stupid things I must include those who require a quite from the bible for every answer. This is a shortcut to thinking.
 
Let me first admit that I only read the first few and last few pages of this thread, so I apologize if I'm just adding more verbal garbage to the pile, but I was quite impressed with the (general) level of thoughtfulness in the early posts and wanted to comment.

It seems to me that they had the right of it when they were joking about rational thought vs. Christianity. I am, by the way, a Christian with all the irrational zealotry of believing in one faith, one God, one salvation, bible is entirely reliable, etc, etc... Logic (well exercised by Cris at the beginning) claims that there is no God. God (the one of the Christian bible) in turn claims that logic is a great and useful but ultimately flawed tool. You must put your faith (and I think that is the accurate term) in one or the other. Personally, having lived with myself for 27 years, I have no such faith left in my logic; it just doesn't stand up to the infinite complexity of day-to-day reality. There are lots of things I disagree with or don't understand in the bible, but I choose to give God the "benefit of the doubt". Don't get me wrong; I have faith in the combined intellect of humanity, just not as much.

With regard to the Christians posting here, please hear me in love when I say that some of you don't sound like you are trying to love people. Jesus said quite clearly that he did not come to debate with those who were confident in their own ability to deal with life (only the sick need a physician). He spent his time instead finding people in need and tending to them. He has done that for us and *commands* us to go and do the same. Is that what we're doing here?

Anyway, just some thoughts that I hope are an accurate reflection of Christ. Thank you to the thoughtful posters on both sides for better material than I expect on a forum. I hope and pray that logic fails you (and you know I mean that in the best possible way) so Jesus can come and pick you up.

Peace all
 
*Originally posted by LordManimal
Then explain why some poker players make a living at it?*

They play different cards each round?

*I now find it quite facinating how the topic has been shifted from "facts" (facts are fickle things, are they not?) to a debate on morality*

Just goes to show you how useless "facts" are.
Be careful though, Cris doesn't feel facts are fickle; he swears by them.
Although..., science has a habit of changing them from time to time.

*Religion appears to be the end of concious thought, so I can understand how easy it is for them to accept the fact that the existance of their God is a paradox.*

That would explain why atheists cease thinking consciously when the subject of religion comes up. It also explains why they think God is paradoxical.

*Originally posted by Teg
Drawing a line between Catholicism and Christianity is impossible. They are too close. *

If you ignore the total contradiction about everything between the two, you may be right.
They are so close it is like night and day.
And you know how hard it is to tell those two apart.

*It is fun to think that a concept such as truth exists. There is an error in this thinking as we have no proven way of telling the difference between a lie and a truth. *

There is the one proven way.
Truth contradicts only lies.
Lies contradict the truth and each other.

*I have seen sheep. They are so easily rounded up by man and dog alike. *

You've obviously never tried rounding up sheep. Those dogs have to work pretty hard at it, and they have to run around a lot more than the sheep do. One man could never round up sheep.
The whole point is that you have to get the sheep to follow you.

*I may not hold every answer, but I can say with good probability that your book does not either.*

There's that statistics thing again.
You can also say with good probability that any one lottery ticket will not win the lottery, either.
You'd be wrong.

*I have heard a lot about interpretation, but with enough interpretation I can find the answer to every question in The Catcher in the Rye *

I think the point to finding answers is finding right answers.

*In the category of people who say stupid things I must include those who require a quite from the bible for every answer.*

I've noticed that you require quotes from the Bible, otherwise you wouldn't know a single thing in it.

*Originally posted by etomai
Jesus said quite clearly that he did not come to debate*

He did?

*Is that what we're doing here? *

Yes.

And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
(Acts 19:8, KJV).
 
;-P

*Religion appears to be the end of concious thought, so I can understand how easy it is for them to accept the fact that the existance of their God is a paradox.*

That would explain why atheists cease thinking consciously when the subject of religion comes up. It also explains why they think God is paradoxical.
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hahahaha That was one of the best play on words I've seen in a long time! Very good work! I am still chuckling over that one.

But praise aside, I think you may be getting a bit quote happy. I understand your want to take things out of context, because they're easier to disect and to answer, but I see a pattern developing thats going to lead to some misconception down the road. If I quote just the right sections in one of your posts I can make:

"God is a paradoxical atheist that causes the subject of thinking to not come up."

(Or better, I just don't have the time to put together a really good one.)

And that wouldn't be cool at all, now would it? I'm quite enjoying this discussion, but I don't want the first thing I see on the top of one of the back pages to be

"Posted by LordManimal: I think that God is a Hitler loving homo"

or something WAAAAAAAY offbase, and taken entirely out of context.

And to you etomai, welcome aboard! You make a good statement about the "WHY" you choose faith, which is something most have a hard time doing. I get the feeling that many "Christains" are only Christains because of some underlying sense of duty? Of flat out fear perhaps? I would, however, like to hear more about exactly why you find faith a comperable substitute for logic. You touched base with that, but left me wondering.


And I gotta agree with Teg on the Catholic thing, my father was Catholic my mother Babtist, so I've seen em both. Aside from different rituals, and the fact that the Catholics think you can rape your mother and say "I'm sorry" and get off scott free with God, they're exceptionally similar, from a personal standpoint....
 
You took my words LordManimal.

Yes, Tony is getting a bit too qoute happy and twisting the qoutes too, to fit into his fast-food, oneliner Christianity.... :rolleyes:
 
*Originally posted by LordManimal
I think you may be getting a bit quote happy.*

You mean like this?
I generally quote so that people can see what I am responding to.
While I appreciate the humor inherent in grabbing huge lungfuls of marijuana smoke and allowing one's brain to wander randomly, I realize that some people may prefer a more focused approach.

*I understand your want to take things out of context, because they're easier to disect and to answer, but I see a pattern developing thats going to lead to some misconception down the road.*

It already has.
The random-walk, free-association enthusiasts complain about that all the time, but it is often diffcult to identify the context in extremely random statements.

* If I quote just the right sections in one of your posts I can make:

"God is a paradoxical atheist that causes the subject of thinking to not come up." *

That's great stuff, but I use the ellipsis to indicate missing words, as a general rule.

*I would, however, like to hear more about exactly why you find faith a comperable substitute for logic. You touched base with that, but left me wondering.*

Speaking for myself, of course, faith isn't really a substitute for logic; logic only goes so far.
Based on what I've seen on this and other forums, most people substitute random keystrokes for logic.

*Originally posted by Bebelina
Yes, Tony is getting a bit too qoute happy and twisting the qoutes too, to fit into his fast-food, oneliner Christianity....*

Oh no, have I rejected your claim to Female Messiahship too quickly?
 
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*Originally posted by Tony1*
Just goes to show you how useless "facts" are.
Be careful though, Cris doesn't feel facts are fickle; he swears by them.
Although..., science has a habit of changing them from time to time.

Now you are attacking facts? Without facts, where are we? You are a human being; that is a fact (maybe). We are communicating; that is a fact. We define our reality by what we know of it. Without facts we would be utterly lost. Without your knowledge of the harmful sideaffects of using rat poison, I could give you some to eat and you might happily do so.

...I appreciate...grabbing huge lungfuls of marijuana...

It's that easy. I know you dislike facts, but in this situation my bending of them may give others the impression that you enjoy marijuana. While this may or may not be true, I canmake it look to be the case. The facts are your salvation in this case. After looking at your full statement we can see that your words were taken out of context.

If you ignore the total contradiction about everything between the two, you may be right.They are so close it is like night and day. And you know how hard it is to tell those two apart.

Besides some small ritual changes, the general atmosphere, and a forgiving ritual, they are one in the same. They use the same book and have a common background. The only real difference is that historic breaking by Henry VIII. He was upset about being unable to divorce and so he made his own religion. We can only compare the two religions to other world religion and will find that there are no two as similar as these. They have the same history prior to Henry VIII and follow the same basic structure.

You've obviously never tried rounding up sheep. Those dogs have to work pretty hard at it, and they have to run around a lot more than the sheep do. One man could never round up sheep.

I have seen two amateurs do it without the aid of a sheep dog. They rounded up 700+. Sheep are worse than cows when it comes to the ability to follow blindly.
 
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