Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

[wellwisher]

To tell whichtiresome, one experiement we could perform is based on natural selection. We will compare bible based behavior to atheist science behavior, but with the stipulation there can be no artificial additives. Artificial is not natural but can b used to create a fake.

As one example, say we compared atheist science behavior of humans with bible behavior in terms of sex and STDs, but with the catch we can no longer use any artificial prosthesis to stack the deck or create a natural fraud. There can be no medicines or plastics. We will let nature take her course based on each bibles behavior. The winner will be called natural selection. With artificial additives atheism can pretend being right, but would this hold up without artificial aids to stack the deck with deception?

 

[Dywyddyr]

To tell whichtiresome, one experiement we could perform is based on natural selection.

WTF is "whichtiresome"?

As one example, say we compared atheist science behavior

Why do you persist in using the term "atheist science behaviour"?

The winner will be called natural selection. With artificial additives atheism can pretend being right, but would this hold up without artificial aids to stack the deck with deception?

WTF are you talking about?
What are you (falsely) assuming here?

 

[wellwisher]

My iPad keeps trying to change words on me if I don't x out the suggestion.

Natural selection does not require artificial things to occur. The lion does not need to go to the store to get,something. Atheist sexuality backed by science (gay apes and promiscuity for example), only works if we take medical precautions. If we took away thesemmedications and synthetic prosthesis, since these are artificial and not found in nature, would this behavior work in nature? The teachings of the bible, could work without these precautions.

Rather than take my word how about a competition based on natural where we,let nature take its course to decide natural behavior.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Natural selection does not require artificial things to occur.

So what?

Atheist sexuality backed by science (gay apes and promiscuity for example), only works if we take medical precautions.

There is no such thing as "atheist sexuality". And if your contention were true how come STDs have survived to the present day, bearing in mind that the further you go back in time the more of the population were theist? This, obviously, indicates that theists were responsible for the preservation of STDs.

Edit: Plus, of course, the slight problem that Adam and Eve weren't married, but had sex and children anyway...

If we took the medications, since these are artificial and not found in nature, would this behavior work as well? The teaches of the bible, could work without these precautions.

Of course! You're so right!
Oh, let's check:
Atheists have lower divorce rates.
Atheists don't commit as many crimes.
And this:

There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_religion#Harm_to_society

Rather than take my word how about a competition based on natural where we,let nature take its course to decide natural behavior.

I'm not "taking your word", since you don't have clue as to what you're talking about.
As usual you are posting bullshit in the belief that because you're a theist you must be right.

 

[Michael]

Job 37:16

Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.


1 Samuel 2:3

Talk no more so very proudly,
let not arrogance come from your mouth;
for the LORD is a God of knowledge,
and by him actions are weighed.

Isaiah 55:9

For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Job 28:24

For he looks to the ends of the earth
and sees everything under the heavens.

1 John 3:19-20

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

Psalm 139:4

Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.

So, your argument is that God IS Omniscient?

Is God also Omnipotent?

 

[Sarkus]

Rather than take my word how about a competition based on natural where we,let nature take its course to decide natural behavior.

You seem to be arguing for a natural but rather short life? If we remove all these "unnatural" things that you speak of, that have been derived from "atheist science", then we would probably all be dying aged 30-40, if not younger.
Or are you perhaps going to be selective in what you deem to be "atheist science" compared to "theist science"?

I must add, though, that your single example speaks volumes as to your prejudices.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Rather than take my word how about a competition based on natural where we,let nature take its course to decide natural behavior.

You also appear to be arguing that somehow theism (and religion) is natural and the pursuit of science isn't.
Which is, of course, false.

 

[arauca]

you also appear to be arguing that somehow theism (and religion) is natural and the pursuit of science isn't.
Which is, of course, false.

could you people on this forum stop preaching atheism

 

[Dywyddyr]

could you people on this forum stop preaching atheism

Oops, false assumption.
All I'm doing is pointing out inconsistencies.
If you want to remain blind to the facts then good luck to you.
I hope you manage get to someone to feed you while you keep your fingers in your ears.


Rather than just complain why don't you show that what I'm saying is wrong?
Or can't you?

 

[GeoffP]

WTF is "whichtiresome"?

It's a bloody brilliant portmanteau, rich in fatiguliteration.

 

[Sarkus]

could you people on this forum stop preaching atheism

There is no preaching of atheism - there is merely the questioning of what others preach usually in the name of some God or other.

 

[Sarkus]

It's a bloody brilliant portmanteau, rich in fatiguliteration.

And there was me thinking it was all just verbollocks!

 

[NMSquirrel]

How do you differentiate between the two given that you have no evidence to go on?

how do you know what parts of genesis are true or not?

another question you already know the answer to..

 

[SciWriter]

No Gods at all are required. Existence is not optional, but a necessity, for 'nothing' cannot be. No choice. Furthermore, existence must be causeless. No choice. This is for the bottom-most stuff. Above and beyond that, there is cause and effect.

As for will, it makes broader choices via wider learning, but it is fixed at any given time. Our actions would be a shambles if undetermined, therefore they are determined. Free will would be totally random, born of a miniature first cause that would depend on nothing at all. Even if there were a few random happenings going on, such as pairs of electrons and positrons popping into existence or annihilating, they would average out to no effect, but in case of a tie, and then, since the sides were so close anyway, tipping the balance either way wouldn't much matter, such as with which new white shirt to wear.

 

[Arioch]

We have something rather than nothing because in quantum mechanics nothing is always something.

 

[LIGHTBEING]

1- No, Christians will not suffer wrath only those who do not believe. And yes, you will suffer his wrath for your words represent your heart. And if your heart is against God why would he bring you into his presence?? Why wouldn’t you suffer his wrath if you treat him poorly and not give thanks for the ultimate sacrifice of death on a cross for YOUR (yes you specifically you the person reading this right now) eternal life.

I love it.....people don't believe in a certain faith due to the fact that they can't get passed the evidence (or lack thereof). It's not that I speak badly about any specific God, it's that I don't acknowledge anything without empirical evidence supporting it's existing in the first place. And you do the same, rightly so, for other deities, faiths and religions. When I do speak directly about a God it's typically directed towards the character in the individual story is referring to and in response to someone's inconsistant and contradictory remark. Why wouldn't I suffer his wrath you ask? Really, is it a reasonable argument? Would I ever reasonably conclude that it's justifiable to burn my child for as long as I shall live because he doesn't respect me or acknowledge me? Or even speak badly about me?

John 3:36 (NIV) "Whoever puts his faith in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see that life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John is a Propagandist.

2- Don’t try to play with words…it doesn’t look favorably on your intelligence. God is the Spirit and the Spirit is God and God is deity.
John 4:24 (NIV) God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

I'm not using word play....if you would bother to look a bit deeper then maybe you would have an actual response to what I said. You use the word blasphemy but the very definition is an action against God. Yet according to the verse blashemy is acceptable only if it is not directed at the Holy Spirit.....HUH? What is your standard of intelligence btw? Is Faith a measurement of intelligence? How about someone who measures all faith(or anything claim for that matter) with the same standard and uses emperical evidence to make an educated conclusion - is this not intellegent to you?

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come

3- I have most definitely read the bible and can tell you that from the beginning this is the greatest “love story” of the one who loves you trying to bring you closer to Him and redeem you because we cannot do it on our own.

Again, this is a supposition. And it could be a love story if you went through and cherry picked your favorites. But read as a whole, it's the furthest thing from one.

 

[SciWriter]

We have something rather than nothing because in quantum mechanics nothing is always something.

Yes, the lack of anything is an impossible situation. Had it ever been, it still would have. QED Gods are not required, nor could their complexity be fundamental, making them but smart aliens.

 

[Arioch]

@SciWriter --

I saw an interesting lecture about this once, perhaps I'll post a video in the physics subforum.

 

[kx000]

All man will not be judged the same. Men of God know no creed, They have no color beyond that given to them by God. They know no nation, no occupation. My men know no religion but the one given to them by God, their free will.

 

[Pincho Paxton]

Proof that the Christian god cannot exist.

This is a revision and refinement of a post I made over a year ago but there are so many new members now that I felt it worth a revisit.

Omniscience vs. Human Free will. A Paradox.

Omniscience: Perfect knowledge of past and future events.
Free will: Freedom to choose between alternatives without external coercion.
Paradox: Statements or events that have contradictory and inconsistent properties.

Proposal:

Christianity cannot claim that God is omniscient and also claim that humans have free will. The claims form a paradox, a falsehood.

Reasoning:

If God is omniscient then even before we are born God will have complete knowledge of every decision we are going to make.

Any apparent choice we make regarding the acceptance or denial of Jesus as a savior is predetermined. This must be true to satisfy the assertion that God is omniscient. Effectively we have no choice in the matter. What we think is free will is an illusion. Our choices have been coerced since we exist and act according to the will of God.

Alternatively if human free will is valid, meaning that the outcome of our decisions is not pre-determined or coerced, then God cannot be omniscient, since he would not know in advance our decisions.

Question:

If God knows the decision of every individual, before they are born, regarding the acceptance or denial of Jesus as a savior, then why does he create one set of individuals destined for heaven and another set destined for eternal damnation? This seems unjust, perverse and particularly evil.

Conclusions:

If God is omniscient then humans do not have free will (see argument above) and the apparent arbitrary choice of God to condemn many individuals to eternal damnation is evil. I.e. God does not possess the property of omni benevolence and is therefore not worth our attention.

If humans have true free will then God cannot be omniscient (see argument above). If he is not omniscient then he also cannot be omnipotent since knowledge of the future is a prerequisite for total action. Without these abilities God can no longer be deemed a god – i.e. God does not exist.

If humans do not have free will then the choice of whether to choose Jesus as a savior or not makes total nonsense of Christianity since the choice is pre-determined and we are merely puppets at the hands of an evil monster.

Cris

Blimey 82 pages. I can't read all of those. The above isn't a Paradox.