Yes, it's completely irrational to think rationally & need rational evidence for believing things. WHY did I never realize that before???
BTW, do you preach to animals, Dan?
BTW, do you preach to animals, Dan?
Proof that the Christian god cannot exist
- Thread starter Cris
- Start date
mynameisDan
Registered Senior Member
"If at first god isn't convinced, pull the trigger again."
Don't test God
Don't test God
mynameisDan
Registered Senior Member
I knew that Carrico would offer up something I would have to disagree with sooner or later. The bible does teach free will and it does teach Gods omniscience. You are both wrong.
Wrong. I noticed you didn't quote the bible, but I will:
Jeremiah 10:23, "Oh Lord, I know that a man's life is not his own. It is not for a man to direct his steps."
Proverbs 16:9, "In his heart, a man plans his course. But the Lord determines his steps."
Romans 9:18, "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and hardens whom he wants to harden."
Then there's
2 Corinthians 4:4
1 Corinthians 2:14
John 6:64
Romans 9:11
Romans 11:32
Matthew 11:25-27
Matthew 22:14
John 15:16
Psalms 33:12
John 15:19
1 Peter 2:9
Eph. 1:4
1 Cprinthians 1:28-29
And so many more verses I'd practically have to quote the whole bible! So sorry but you are in error.
Carico, do you believe we have no free will or taht we should not act on our own free will?. For instance we should follow the biblical rules and act the way it says we should under gods preferences?, or that we actualy do not posess free will regardless?.
peace.
peace.
"A man is a slave to whatever has mastered him." That means that we all respond to our least stressful option. For example, most people don't choose to grow up as drug addicts. they only become addicted to drugs because the pain of living off drugs is stronger than their pain on drugs. So it's not a choice; they are simply seeking their least stressful option. Therefore:
If one is ruled by greed, he will pursue wealth even if it costs him everything else.
If one is ruled by lust he will become a sexual addict no matter how much he may want to stop.
If one is ruled by pride, he will not be able to admit he's wrong even if it's obvious to himself that he is wrong.
If one is ruled by gluttony, he cannot control his eating no matter how much he may want to.
So being slaves to sin is what causes all the problems in the world and the only solution is Christ's forgiveness on the cross. Knowing that he paid for all the sins of humanity breed incredible thankfulness and joy that can't be surpassed by any earthly pleasure because all earthly pleasures are gone once we die. But no one can ever take the love from God out of our hearts so we carry it into eternity. And that, my friend, is heaven.
"A man is a slave to whatever has mastered him." That means that we all respond to our least stressful option. For example, most people don't choose to grow up as drug addicts. they only become addicted to drugs because the pain of living off drugs is stronger than their pain on drugs. So it's not a choice; they are simply seeking their least stressful option. Therefore:
If one is ruled by greed, he will pursue wealth even if it costs him everything else.
If one is ruled by lust he will become a sexual addict no matter how much he may want to stop.
If one is ruled by pride, he will not be able to admit he's wrong even if it's obvious to himself that he is wrong.
If one is ruled by gluttony, he cannot control his eating no matter how much he may want to.
So being slaves to sin is what causes all the problems in the world and the only solution is Christ's forgiveness on the cross. Knowing that he paid for all the sins of humanity breed incredible thankfulness and joy that can't be surpassed by any earthly pleasure because all earthly pleasures are gone once we die. But no one can ever take the love from God out of our hearts so we carry it into eternity. And that, my friend, is heaven.
But why should I choose that over all the other beliefs on offer to me?, I was not raised religious so how can I jus make myself believe in the bible?. I see how god could exist and I think a god type thing probably does exist, but all the surrounding bible scriptures why should I take it as truth above all other religions?.
How did you just start believing in all of it?.
peace.
Actually I wasn't raised in a religious home either and boy am I glad I wasn't! I was raised in a secular humanist home where my parents wanted us to find our own path. We never went to church and I mean, never.
But you're right, you cannot make yourself believe. I tried to make myself believe the bible for years but could not until one day out of desperation i asked God to help me. I felt as if someone had touched my back, I felt heat rush from my head to my toes and when I opened my eyes, the sun streamed into the window. it was so bright that the colors on the bedspread were bright and clear where as before they seemed dull.
Then I opened the bible and every word was crystal clear. it made perfect sense. i then found out that th words in the bible are simple enough for a child to understand. Words like "But, "You", "the, "Cannot", etc. that we all learned in elementary school. So my belief didn't come from myself since I tried for so many years to believe but couldn't believe it. I just needed the faith to believe them and faith can only come from God. Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith-and this- not from yourself-Faith is a gift from God, not by works, so that no one can boast." So you need to ask God for faith because only he can give it to you. And once you receive that faith, then you'll know that God exists because you'll suddenly be able to believe. It's a wonderful thing.
Out of desperation every word was crystal clear & made perfect sense.
No, actually after the room became lighter and my eyes were opened. That light is still with me today.
But Jesus said about the Holy Spirit, "The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him because he will be with you and in you." And that's exactly what happened. Quite a coincidence that i could believe the bible after that experience. A little too coincidental since my life has changed dramatically since that day. My life changed dramaticly after I found IPU.
mynameisDan
Registered Senior Member
"I noticed you didn't quote the bible, but I will:"
I am not really that interested in engaging you in your pet hypercalvinistic doctrine. I didn't say that God doesn't elect people or deny any doctrine of the bible. But the bible does teach free will and anyone who can read knows this.
1. "choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve" (Josh. 24:15)
2. "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Mt. 11:28)
3. "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God." (Jn. 7:17)
4. "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink." (Jn. 7:37)
5. "Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized" (Acts 2:38)
6. "Repent therefore and be converted" (Acts 3:19)
7. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31)
8. "but now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)
9. "Whoever wills, let him take the water of life freely." (Rev. 22:17)
All of these verses imply free will and must be reinterpreted by calvinists to mean what they do not say in plane english. If you wish to play, "lets distort the bible", go play the game by yourself. I will have none of it and will call you on it when I see it.
I am not really that interested in engaging you in your pet hypercalvinistic doctrine. I didn't say that God doesn't elect people or deny any doctrine of the bible. But the bible does teach free will and anyone who can read knows this.
1. "choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve" (Josh. 24:15)
2. "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Mt. 11:28)
3. "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God." (Jn. 7:17)
4. "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink." (Jn. 7:37)
5. "Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized" (Acts 2:38)
6. "Repent therefore and be converted" (Acts 3:19)
7. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31)
8. "but now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)
9. "Whoever wills, let him take the water of life freely." (Rev. 22:17)
All of these verses imply free will and must be reinterpreted by calvinists to mean what they do not say in plane english. If you wish to play, "lets distort the bible", go play the game by yourself. I will have none of it and will call you on it when I see it.
Evidently, you're both right.
Yeah, and put those together with the verses I quoted and you get, our ability to choose comes only from the Spirit of God. Then all scripture is reconciled.
So since you don't believe the bible to begin with, then you can't use it to prove anything since you think it's all a lie. that then defeats your point. Sorry.
You should've been in vaudeville.
NWR. No wonder I've by-passed your posts.
If you want a response, then form an intelligent post that has to do with the discussion. Maybe like a reality TV show.
Maybe one could put it in terms of a reality TV show episode you've already seen. The characters have free will but God has already seen it. The people make their own choices and act accordingly, but God already knows what happens. Watching a re-run of a COPS can make one feel omniscient!
Maybe one could put it in terms of a reality TV show episode you've already seen. The characters have free will but God has already seen it. The people make their own choices and act accordingly, but God already knows what happens. Watching a re-run of a COPS can make one feel omniscient!
Doesn't the whole thing just feel creepy to you?
This god of yours created you for the sole purpose of worshiping him, and will punish you eternally if you don't. Your punishment for acting in maybe the only way you know how to act, in a situation he put you in, is eternal damnation. How does that make sense to you guys?
I don't believe in any of it, personally. I can see how those retards in the Middle East can't keep from blowing themselves up, or living in filth, and how even the best of them totally oppress entire segments of their population and can't keep themselves from getting invaded or manhandled by some outside force. I can see that there isn't one nation in that whole place that I would emulate in any way whatsoever.
So why the hell would I buy into their mythology? I mean, we think of these people as stone age and backwards, and yet you worship the gods they invented! It's preposterous!
This god of yours created you for the sole purpose of worshiping him, and will punish you eternally if you don't. Your punishment for acting in maybe the only way you know how to act, in a situation he put you in, is eternal damnation. How does that make sense to you guys?
I don't believe in any of it, personally. I can see how those retards in the Middle East can't keep from blowing themselves up, or living in filth, and how even the best of them totally oppress entire segments of their population and can't keep themselves from getting invaded or manhandled by some outside force. I can see that there isn't one nation in that whole place that I would emulate in any way whatsoever.
So why the hell would I buy into their mythology? I mean, we think of these people as stone age and backwards, and yet you worship the gods they invented! It's preposterous!
NWR. No wonder I've by-passed your posts.
Okay, lets talk turkey intelligently. You believe you are predestined how is that free choice?