Proof that the Christian god cannot exist
- Thread starter Cris
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nisus
This is impressive, i've created "no small stir" amongst this athiest circle, and now i'm surrounded.
chill. i get a bit melodramatic. it is kinda fun
After you're done abolishing today's religion, you can deal with tommorow's. And after tommorow's, the day after that. But after carefully considering all of your words, i've yet to see any evidence (works) of your own personal convictions, as to your efforts to dissolve mankind of religious faith.
religion is primarily an expression of the confusion faced by humans when inquiring into the nature of their own consciousness. academia now include consciouness as a field of study. physicists continue to make progress in discovering the underpinnnings of the universe. we will eventually get to the bottom of all things. i accept no arbitrary limitations on our potential. we will all be gods
know this. religion is on its way out. humans have learnt how to reason for themselves. it is now a simple matter of logic to choose the ethical course of thought and action. transgressions of law are punished in this life, not the next
I see why you dislike it, but I don't see what you are doing to rid our world of this "evil". If you think it is so detrimental, so serious, where is the cure? How will it affect the rising generation of children, and will they carry this same conviction as you? What will you do to teach those, who still want to believe in God? Laugh at them? Mock them? Scorn them? Ridicule them? Feed them to lion's for your entertainment? Because they choose to believe in somethings that can't be seen?
you lack a coherent thought process. why would a world without religion affect those that never even heard of it in the first place? how can anyone believe in a god when its existence is never affirmed in the first place. the ridicule will thus be moot. the coliseum will be empty.
my activism need not concern you. all that matters is what i bring to the table here in sciforums. thats it
Shall I have to show you then Why I love my family, Proof of my conviction, evidence of my hopes? To assure you that it's not fantasy?
looky here nisus
i am sure you are a decent human being so do your part. keep your relationship with god to yourself. allow the same for your family. then do the same for the rest of us. you are free to worship and go to heaven. let us similarly be free to bugger each other up the ass
i beg of you......reign in the fundamentalist wackos
This is impressive, i've created "no small stir" amongst this athiest circle, and now i'm surrounded.
chill. i get a bit melodramatic. it is kinda fun
After you're done abolishing today's religion, you can deal with tommorow's. And after tommorow's, the day after that. But after carefully considering all of your words, i've yet to see any evidence (works) of your own personal convictions, as to your efforts to dissolve mankind of religious faith.
religion is primarily an expression of the confusion faced by humans when inquiring into the nature of their own consciousness. academia now include consciouness as a field of study. physicists continue to make progress in discovering the underpinnnings of the universe. we will eventually get to the bottom of all things. i accept no arbitrary limitations on our potential. we will all be gods
know this. religion is on its way out. humans have learnt how to reason for themselves. it is now a simple matter of logic to choose the ethical course of thought and action. transgressions of law are punished in this life, not the next
I see why you dislike it, but I don't see what you are doing to rid our world of this "evil". If you think it is so detrimental, so serious, where is the cure? How will it affect the rising generation of children, and will they carry this same conviction as you? What will you do to teach those, who still want to believe in God? Laugh at them? Mock them? Scorn them? Ridicule them? Feed them to lion's for your entertainment? Because they choose to believe in somethings that can't be seen?
you lack a coherent thought process. why would a world without religion affect those that never even heard of it in the first place? how can anyone believe in a god when its existence is never affirmed in the first place. the ridicule will thus be moot. the coliseum will be empty.
my activism need not concern you. all that matters is what i bring to the table here in sciforums. thats it
Shall I have to show you then Why I love my family, Proof of my conviction, evidence of my hopes? To assure you that it's not fantasy?
looky here nisus
i am sure you are a decent human being so do your part. keep your relationship with god to yourself. allow the same for your family. then do the same for the rest of us. you are free to worship and go to heaven. let us similarly be free to bugger each other up the ass
i beg of you......reign in the fundamentalist wackos
If you say so, but a few of those testimonies were co-authored by other Mormons. Something done with an agenda is by nature not "from the heart", but calculated "according to different circumstances" like you say. Compare them with the testimonies he gave to non-Mormons, and you start to see the discrepancies I'm talking about.Nisus said:
On the contrary. He was on trial for treason and incitnig violence. It is true that he was unpopular for polygamy and preaching polytheism, but the events surrounding his trial shows the hostility was political: Jospeh Smith declared martial law in Nauvoo after he burned the local press, and his opposition saw this as an act of treason against the state of Illinois. You can see all acounts here. Below is a quote from one of his letters from jail that might give a clue for the mob's motives:
So it is with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; we have the revelation of Jesus, and the knowledge within us is sufficient to organize a righteous government upon the earth, and to give universal peace to all mankind, if they would receive it...
More information about the criticsm against him can be found in the Nauvoo Expositor, and it is easy to see from it that the problem wasn't his testimony of Jesus, but the way he played this religious card socially and politically: see Wikipedia: The Death of Joseph Smith.
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Jenyar said:
Okay so you're talking about discrepancies but you've not given me an example. You want me to just take your faith on it?
I don't believe that man would have done such a thing. Your sources of information seem to differ from mine. I try to keep with mainstream accepted and known information, not anti-propaganda.Jenyar said:
You should really give specific examples, and stop talking about things like this, without referenced and published documents.
You only have to compare what Smith told Mormons (in official publications), and what he told non-Mormons (his earliest accounts). Like I said, I could not find the non-Mormon accounts on any Mormon site, which might explain why you are so convinced of its harmony. They seem to have been sanitized.Nisus said:
Of course, I cannot prove what has been embellished and what hasn't, but if placed in the greater context of his life and his surroundings, the accounts given to people who had no vested interest in his claims seem more congruous than the ones modified to fit the circumstances.
He did it by burning the press and calling martial law (he had a local army of 5000 at his disposal). This is mainstream accepted infromation. Read the links I provided.
I give the links for a reason. I don't want to cut and paste whole accounts if I don't have to. Reading them in full allows you to come to your own conclusions as to their context. I recommend the wikipedia link if you don't want to do too much reading. (It's not anti-Mormon, either.)
Pardom mua! but atheist are not sitting on their hands, we are few. But then it does say "the meek shall inheret the earth" 
Freedom From Religion Foundation
Debunking Jesus Christ
Jesus never Existed
Institute for the Secularisation of Islamic society.
That's to name just a few of organizations that are trying to educate & erradicate religious beliefs.
Godless
Freedom From Religion Foundation
Debunking Jesus Christ
Jesus never Existed
Institute for the Secularisation of Islamic society.
That's to name just a few of organizations that are trying to educate & erradicate religious beliefs.
Godless
Nisus,
"faith is the substance" - no - faith is a baseless beleif.
"things hoped for" - in religion it is the desire to live forever and I can relate to that.
"the evidence of things not seen" - no it is the opposite - if such things have not been seen then there can be no evidence.
But it is a nice phrase from an aesthetic perspective and gives the appearance of great wisdom but at the same time is total gibberish.
Like bad food this keeps coming up so it is time to kill it.
"faith is the substance" - no - faith is a baseless beleif.
"things hoped for" - in religion it is the desire to live forever and I can relate to that.
"the evidence of things not seen" - no it is the opposite - if such things have not been seen then there can be no evidence.
But it is a nice phrase from an aesthetic perspective and gives the appearance of great wisdom but at the same time is total gibberish.
And more recently we have created the Secular Coalition of America as a lobby group in Washington to fight for the non-religion position.
http://www.secular.org/
http://www.secular.org/
Nisus,
Will this happen? I'm optimistsic.
Superior education is the primary mechanism to displace religious faith. An increasing knowledge base will help but people need to be taught how to think to know how to use it. It will take time, but technology and better communications will help. Will there remain some who insist on being irrational? Most likely but their numbers shoud gradually decrease as improved education kicks in.
Will this happen? I'm optimistsic.
Who are your teachers? Are they delivering their message with the same effort as those of diverse religions, who are even now as we speak, knocking the doors of people all around the world in every country? Sharing the messages of God, and Faith in every country around the world?
Interesting that you say that because, it's quite the opposite, missionary efforts around the world are reaching unprecedented success.
Your athiest ideals, lack leadership. Funding. Organization, establishment. Most importantly a FAITHFUL collective of individuals, zealous of your cause. I'm sorry but the truth is, the more easier life becomes to live...
the lazier humans will become. The more glutonous, the more uneducated and addicted to pleasures of the world.
We will see an increase in education. We will see and increase in technological advancements---medicines--but they will be unparalleled with the increase of apathy towards life itself, and you won't need athiesm to destroy faith... you've got gambling,
prostitution, drugs, Las Vegas, Hollywood, Babylon, and Amsterdam--that already stand as shining distractions to the human race.
I know the resolves of my Church (and many other churches) are firm and unshaken, and so long as a free world exists, our people will prosper and continue to believe in God. And the numberless posts that can be accumulated for years and years upon forums and books that can be pressed and printed preaching athiesm, will never destroy faith.
Selfishness will consume and destroy the entire human race before the power of Faith is challenged by unbelief. And if faith were to ever lose, it would lose to sin and decadence--the real challenge against religion and faith, Not Athiesm.
Interesting that you say that because, it's quite the opposite, missionary efforts around the world are reaching unprecedented success.
Your athiest ideals, lack leadership. Funding. Organization, establishment. Most importantly a FAITHFUL collective of individuals, zealous of your cause. I'm sorry but the truth is, the more easier life becomes to live...
the lazier humans will become. The more glutonous, the more uneducated and addicted to pleasures of the world.
We will see an increase in education. We will see and increase in technological advancements---medicines--but they will be unparalleled with the increase of apathy towards life itself, and you won't need athiesm to destroy faith... you've got gambling,
prostitution, drugs, Las Vegas, Hollywood, Babylon, and Amsterdam--that already stand as shining distractions to the human race.
I know the resolves of my Church (and many other churches) are firm and unshaken, and so long as a free world exists, our people will prosper and continue to believe in God. And the numberless posts that can be accumulated for years and years upon forums and books that can be pressed and printed preaching athiesm, will never destroy faith.
Selfishness will consume and destroy the entire human race before the power of Faith is challenged by unbelief. And if faith were to ever lose, it would lose to sin and decadence--the real challenge against religion and faith, Not Athiesm.
We will see an increase in education. We will see and increase in technological advancements---medicines--but they will be unparalleled with the increase of apathy towards life itself, and you won't need athiesm to destroy faith... you've got gambling,
prostitution, drugs, Las Vegas, Hollywood, Babylon, and Amsterdam--that already stand as shining distractions to the human race.
You're quite confused. Atheism does not promote gambling, prostition, drugs, etc.
And you'll find that it is theists who hypocritically believe in their gods while entertaining those vices. Atheism has no need for such things as they value mankind and nature, and see those vices as irrational and unreasonable placebos.
prostitution, drugs, Las Vegas, Hollywood, Babylon, and Amsterdam--that already stand as shining distractions to the human race.
You're quite confused. Atheism does not promote gambling, prostition, drugs, etc.
And you'll find that it is theists who hypocritically believe in their gods while entertaining those vices. Atheism has no need for such things as they value mankind and nature, and see those vices as irrational and unreasonable placebos.
I read bits and pieces of this thread and thought I'd share my own opinion. Yes, we all do have free will. We choose what clothes we wear, we choose what to eat, etc. And yes, God knows everything. But despite this, God loves us so much that he allows us to do as we wish while trying to give us guidance through various methods, like if someone was gonna hang himself then God could make it so the rope mysteriously breaks. Just because God knows everything we do that doesn't mean God will change every aspect of our lives. Also, don't you think that God would have the power to alter future events? If God saw that someone was gonna commit a sin God could get involved to try to stop that person from sinning. God doesn't like to interfere with our lives but he still gets involved through one way or another if he needs to. It's up to us to either accept of deny God's guidance or help.
Q,
I didn't say you promoted it... you're confused.
I said that those things are a greater threat to Christianity and faith and the progress of the human race.
They are a greater threat to us than you ever wish Athiesm could be. They are a greater threat to the progress of humanity, than religion could ever be.
Cris gets on the soapbox about how religion is so detrimental, and should be erradicated while I guess he supposes that these other things are of lesser consequence to the greater good of humanity.
I didn't say you promoted it... you're confused.
I said that those things are a greater threat to Christianity and faith and the progress of the human race.
They are a greater threat to us than you ever wish Athiesm could be. They are a greater threat to the progress of humanity, than religion could ever be.
Cris gets on the soapbox about how religion is so detrimental, and should be erradicated while I guess he supposes that these other things are of lesser consequence to the greater good of humanity.
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They are a greater threat to us than you ever wish Athiesm could be. They are a greater threat to the progress of humanity, than religion could ever be.
They are equally a threat to humanity as religion, if not less. If it was irrational and illogical thought processes from theists that originally caused those problems, which they most likely did, then atheists will resolve them, given the chance.
They are equally a threat to humanity as religion, if not less. If it was irrational and illogical thought processes from theists that originally caused those problems, which they most likely did, then atheists will resolve them, given the chance.