Proof that the Christian god cannot exist
- Thread starter Cris
- Start date
Read Nisus/ Cris posts.
It's mainly predicated upon the "abolishment" of religion. How Cris' disdain for religion, is pivoted against the freedom of religious faith. The numbers aren't contrasted to prove the veracity of any particular sect of theism/polytheism---Just a notion as to how many people believe what.
It's mainly predicated upon the "abolishment" of religion. How Cris' disdain for religion, is pivoted against the freedom of religious faith. The numbers aren't contrasted to prove the veracity of any particular sect of theism/polytheism---Just a notion as to how many people believe what.
Nisus, Laika,
My perspective is that religious belief is fantasy since no religionist can show otherwise. And that to beleive fantasies are true so that one can be happy rather than deal with reality and solve real problems is a long term hazard for the human race.
Well no that was Nisus's particular twisted erroneous argument.
My perspective is that religious belief is fantasy since no religionist can show otherwise. And that to beleive fantasies are true so that one can be happy rather than deal with reality and solve real problems is a long term hazard for the human race.
I agree wholeheartedly. I also agree that...
However, I don't think that believing in a deity and believing in the need to solve real problems are mutually exclusive. I am not religious in the slightest, but I do know at least a couple of religious scientists. It seems to me that religious belief can be compartmentalised and does not preclude rational thought in other areas.
Laika,
Agreed - I also have religious friends and coleagues who do not mix their religious beliefs with their work.
But as a group or national mentality I percieve an issue when a large proportion believe religion is true which results in an inevitable dampening effect on an otherwise more scientific oriented path. The background belief that a god is the ultimate source and answer must cause a degree of apathy towards more aggressive problem solving. E.g why really work hard to solve a problem if you believe that a god did it anyway.
Agreed - I also have religious friends and coleagues who do not mix their religious beliefs with their work.
But as a group or national mentality I percieve an issue when a large proportion believe religion is true which results in an inevitable dampening effect on an otherwise more scientific oriented path. The background belief that a god is the ultimate source and answer must cause a degree of apathy towards more aggressive problem solving. E.g why really work hard to solve a problem if you believe that a god did it anyway.
Cris said:
Wow, you inside really wish it was this simple? I think you'd have to ask these billions of people not me.
The value of people's faith and hope in the unseen, is on a personal level. Something you fail to comprehend over and over again, because hope and faith can't be counted or alloted to a scientific methodology, you say it's of no worth.
I'm not even defending my faith, I'm just defending the right to have it, and the value I find in it.
Cris said:
I hope you won't let one thought stop you from solving a problem. Even a hypothetical thought since you havn't attributed that to anyone person right now.
Day and night scientists around the world solve problems.
So you want people to forsake their freedom to live out a normal life and believe what they want---
So they can become scientists and solve all of the worlds "problems"?
So you think it's alright in this world for a kid to want to become a fireman. An astronaut. A lawyer. But the moment he wants to become a preacher, or a pastor or a priest, he becomes detrimental to the progresses of science?
Live and let live, I say again. You should stop limiting yourself to thinking
"oh we can't get stuff done because of religion" and start thinking "this is what I want to get done" because now is the time and age to get things done.
People have ALWAYS challenged religion. That's part of the reason why it always changes. Religion in itself challenges religion (protestant reformation??)....I just think you as an athiest, would have so many better things to do, than challenge religion.
You ever heard of http://www.godpart.com/ "The GOD Part of the brain"?
This man says it is "Truth" that people have evolved to become "spiritual animals"
Now you are stuck in a paradox, asking, why don't people just believe truth. When it is truth that has made us to believe in things not seen. And faith and religion, is inherant and intrinsic to our organism.
The populations of religions in the world was so you would see what your "case" is up against. I said it is your burden, not mine, because you challenge them. And when you challenge peoples personal beliefs, in this context saying they are parasitic, need to be abolished simply because they are detrimental (in your opinion) to the progress of science, you also challenge their right to think for themselves-- and to what extent they wish to think or not think.
So let's get back to the meat of discussion. I'm not defending "fantasy"-- though you keep pivoting me against it. It's your buzz word I guess to get people to think on such simple terms--when I'm trying to show you the bigger picture.
Just a notion as to how many people believe what.
The evidence YOU provided from that list should give you some indication as to the validity of your beliefs.
Don't forget Nisus, centuries of having a religious mindset will not be irradicated overnight. We'll probably see a swing from one religion to another over the generations as people become more educated and religions lose more ground. Eventually though, religion will become a shining example of the ignorance mankind once held.
People like Cris will be remembered as pioneers in that irradication; prophets, so to speak.
The evidence YOU provided from that list should give you some indication as to the validity of your beliefs.
Don't forget Nisus, centuries of having a religious mindset will not be irradicated overnight. We'll probably see a swing from one religion to another over the generations as people become more educated and religions lose more ground. Eventually though, religion will become a shining example of the ignorance mankind once held.
People like Cris will be remembered as pioneers in that irradication; prophets, so to speak.
Nisus said:
that depends. here in the usa we have our own unique set of problems.
on the one hand......
*The Vatican's chief astronomer said Friday that "intelligent design" isn't science and doesn't belong in science classrooms, the latest high-ranking Roman Catholic official to enter the evolution debate
*1996 statement by Pope John Paul II that evolution was "more than just a hypothesis. link
on the other....
*"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God. You just rejected him from your city," Robertson said on his TV show. link
tell me again why the "preacher, or a pastor or a priest" could not possibly be a threat?
the plot to brainwash kids
(Q) said:
Just which one of my beliefs need validity? If they need validity then they would fail to be beliefs, child.
(Q) said:
A shining example of your hope, in something post-mortem. You know it's not abnormal for humans to hope certain things happen after death. Many people call this: Religion. Hope and Faith in things not seen. Like unto your hope in the erradication of religion.
You rag on people for believing in things after death, then you express your hope that religion will be "erradicated". It's not going to happen. Not even after your death.
That's a nice tid-bit of your own belief/fantasy.
(Q) said:People like Cris will be remembered as pioneers in that irradication; prophets, so to speak.
Just about anybody can gain this status today. Even people that drink poison and cut off their nuts. In this application, truth lies in the eye of the beholder.
Gustav said:
Some people feel there is an obligation on our own part, as humans, to help those that are less fortunate. A fundamental teaching of Christ's, is service and charity to others. Helping out the poor, the broken hearted, and the homeless and needy.
Many religous teachers are involved in a collaborative effort, to comfort people that stand in need of comfort, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and simply help other people.
Disaster relief. Humanitarian aid--- funded principally by religious organizations.
What is so Threatening about that?
After you're done abloshing religion, you can deal with the moral consequences.
But as you will notice when you look around the world, secular countries you will see religion is not needed to force people to have morals and to have a healthy society. If you want to dispute that then I would have a go in the "Most Americans will be non-Christians by the year 2035 CE" thread.
You will notice that the theist argument of a Godless society being a chaotic one doesn't hold water as it appears to be the other way around... Perhaps thats why theists never reply to such threads which make that point.
If they need validity then they would fail to be beliefs, child.
Hence, become fantasies, dad.
You know it's not abnormal for humans to hope certain things happen after death.
Wishful thinking is a warm and fuzzy kind of thing, but useless in life, or death.
you express your hope that religion will be "erradicated". It's not going to happen. Not even after your death.
Unfortunately, you're right, religion will not be "eradicated" in my lifetime, but most certainly will go the way of the dodo in the future.
That's a nice tid-bit of your own belief/fantasy.
A fantasy that will thankfully someday be a reality. One day our children will live free of the ignorance, oppression and fear religion propagates. On that day, humanity will finally take its first step forward.
Hence, become fantasies, dad.
You know it's not abnormal for humans to hope certain things happen after death.
Wishful thinking is a warm and fuzzy kind of thing, but useless in life, or death.
you express your hope that religion will be "erradicated". It's not going to happen. Not even after your death.
Unfortunately, you're right, religion will not be "eradicated" in my lifetime, but most certainly will go the way of the dodo in the future.
That's a nice tid-bit of your own belief/fantasy.
A fantasy that will thankfully someday be a reality. One day our children will live free of the ignorance, oppression and fear religion propagates. On that day, humanity will finally take its first step forward.
nothing, however that is the sheeps clothing, as religion is behind the most evil of atrocities, torture, wars, ethic cleansing, etc.Nisus said:
not until we eradicate religion from the human mindset, will we ever get peace.
man has morals, it's religion thats will change them for the worst, making the gulible man do very evil deeds indeed.
we certainly need a change, or humanity may not survive, religion is killing us, literally!.
Nisus,
Not quite. I have indicated how I can see that religious beliefs can make people feel happy, but then a placebo pill can make people feel less pain. The point is that neither approach has any underlying substance. The danger of religious belief is the apathy that results from the expectation of a supernatural protector. If this were just a few people then I would not be concerned but when it encompasses some two thirds of the world population then my long term survival is threatened and that is unacceptable.
Understood. But there are too many who have the same apathy and that adversely affects me. I will continue to point out your delusions and hope you will eventually see reason.
But only a few of them when compared to the size of the world population, and most them are secular and atheist.
Loss of freedom has nothing to do with this. There is only one overwhelming problem – death. Religions think they have fixed that by creating the fantasy of an afterlife. You are going to die – you should be concerned.
Almost – detrimental to the survival of mankind.
We are making progress despite the resistance of religion, it could simply be a lot faster without religion.
If you have a thorn in your skin do you simply accept it or take action to have it removed. Religion is a significant thorn in the side of humanity, and needs to be removed. But keep this in perspective; the vast majority of my life does not revolve around religion and its eradication.
Yes, there have been several threads here discussing the issues. It is closely linked to epilepsy. It appears to be a human feature equal in value to the appendix. I.e. redundant to anything of value.
LOL – very funny. But then many people are genetically susceptible to cancer and other diseases. We should treat something that causes religious delusions to be equally considered a disease and eradicate it like any other. The best advice and treatment I can offer to those who suffer from the god disease is to read books on logic daily, before and after meals.
No. Once again you have everything reversed. It is exactly the need to have people think for themselves that I am advocating. I am not trying to teach them what to believe or any particular doctrines, but that they should learn to think rather than blindly believe what they are told by antiquated religions based on ancient baseless mythologies. Most people prefer to be sheep and lemmings, it is an easy route to take and the reason why there are so few atheists and other free-thinkers – people who do question the dominant institutions and think for themselves.
It represents a more accurate picture of the atheist position; the objection to baseless theist claims that they find unbelievable, and not that gods do not exist. But the big picture in religion is that it is all fantasy, a belief of something based entirely on a creatively derived solely imaginative concept. You can jump through as many hoops as you like in attempts to rationalize it or show it has other values, but the real base of religion is absolutely nothing.
Nisus said:
i have no problem with charity. give the masses all the loaves and fishes they want. just dont do it with my tax dollars. get a frikkin second job and pay for this shit yourself. or wait for my goddamn handout
what i find threatening is how you want to legislate your perverted way of life into what is clearly a secular nation with liberty and justice for all
your efforts contravene all that is just and humane about this country. freedoms have been granted to you christians as citizens. to then go and introduce legislation that clearly attempt to undermine this country and its values is practically treasonous.
lets take a look at your evil antics
Gay Marriage Controversy
you want to discriminate against homosexuals.
Ten Commandments
you want to post ancient biblical crap in public buildings an an attempt to influence opinion
Partial Birth Abortion
you meddle in medical procedures
State Funds for Divinity Studies
my tax dollars so you can bugger little boys
Pledge of Allegiance
there is no god
Hate Crimes Legislation
you want the freedom to beat and kill fags
Employee Diversity Policies
you want the freedom to beat and kill fags
kill all gays
This is impressive, i've created "no small stir" amongst this athiest circle, and now i'm surrounded.
After you're done abolishing today's religion, you can deal with tommorow's. And after tommorow's, the day after that. But after carefully considering all of your words, i've yet to see any evidence (works) of your own personal convictions, as to your efforts to dissolve mankind of religious faith.
I see why you dislike it, but I don't see what you are doing to rid our world of this "evil". If you think it is so detrimental, so serious, where is the cure? How will it affect the rising generation of children, and will they carry this same conviction as you? What will you do to teach those, who still want to believe in God? Laugh at them? Mock them? Scorn them? Ridicule them? Feed them to lion's for your entertainment? Because they choose to believe in somethings that can't be seen?
Shall I have to show you then Why I love my family, Proof of my conviction, evidence of my hopes? To assure you that it's not fantasy?
Well in your quest to erradicate the world of religion, you should know this...
NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The world is growing at an alarming rate, Now carry on now, hurry, you must rid it, from the evil of religion.
You can follow that god; and I will follow Christ.
After you're done abolishing today's religion, you can deal with tommorow's. And after tommorow's, the day after that. But after carefully considering all of your words, i've yet to see any evidence (works) of your own personal convictions, as to your efforts to dissolve mankind of religious faith.
I see why you dislike it, but I don't see what you are doing to rid our world of this "evil". If you think it is so detrimental, so serious, where is the cure? How will it affect the rising generation of children, and will they carry this same conviction as you? What will you do to teach those, who still want to believe in God? Laugh at them? Mock them? Scorn them? Ridicule them? Feed them to lion's for your entertainment? Because they choose to believe in somethings that can't be seen?
Shall I have to show you then Why I love my family, Proof of my conviction, evidence of my hopes? To assure you that it's not fantasy?
Well in your quest to erradicate the world of religion, you should know this...
NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The world is growing at an alarming rate, Now carry on now, hurry, you must rid it, from the evil of religion.
You can follow that god; and I will follow Christ.