Prince Harry the Nazi

[Beryl]

Xerxes,

In a way I think you're right that the Monarchy should be dissolved, since they don't have any power anyhow and I have to think life would be better for them if they weren't royal. Therefore that viewpoint in itself I don't have an issue with, but together with what else you said I didn't like the way it sounded.

I know that plenty of people have good reason to be offended by Harry's actions, but I feel sure that it wasn't his intention to offend, nor is it fair that his actions even have the chance to offend so many people. I could dress up as a Nazi for a costume party and chances are the only people who could be offended by it would be the other people at the party. I also think that people should realize Prince Harry is not the first person to use the Nazi's as humor or as some form of entertainment; I'm not saying it's funny, but it is something that's been done before and something that to the best of my knowledge people don't usually take such issue with.

Kissing someone or talking to someone of the opposite gender isn't embarrassing, but it is the sort of thing that people tend to hear about when Harry or William does it. I'm sure it's not the most troublesome thing for them, but I should think that it would get rather obnoxious.

I am upset, but not specifically with you. Although I do still find the word "fag" offensive... not because you used it about Harry, but because it's a word that shouldn't be used.

That's all the posting I can do for tonight because it's already past the time that I'm supposed to be offline, but I'll be checking back on the thread tomorrow (unless my internet connection isn't working; it's been a bit grouchy lately.)

 

[Blue_UK]

What the hell? People dress up as gladiators and all kinds of people who would or most definatly have killed.

There's nothing wrong with dressing up as a Nazi - for one, the Nazis dressed very well!

 

[vslayer]

for fucks sake, it was a costume party, if it was some normal kid no-one would care, why do the tabloids even follow him, he never did anything worth recognition, he was born into the royal family, great acheivement therei

its jsut like people who obsess over movie stars, they are just donig their job, their are people who do great things who are never even acknowledged, but if someone gets shown on TV they are important?? WTF??

 

[geodesic]

for fucks sake, it was a costume party

Absolutely. Not to mention the fact that this story serves to spread a stereotype; people who wore Nazi uniforms were evil. People with fascistic principles or ideals, sure. But the monarchy still need to go. As if it wasn't enough that they own billions in property,art, etc, they only recently started paying taxes, and they receive millions every year from the government to help with "housekeeping".

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

No one has good reason to be offended. They reserve the right to be embarrassed and ashamed if they are offended by this.
Everyone that is offended by this, or "rabble rabble rabble"ing about it, should be rounded up and put in special death camps.

 

[geodesic]

Thinking back, the article I read this in seemed to be most offended by the fact that he was wearing a swastika armband, which is even less offensive than a German uniform, since the swastika was a religious symbol for hundreds of years before the Nazi movement. It's like calling the carrying of the Olympic flame offensive, because of its associations with Nazism.

 

[Xerxes]

Dr Lou,

No one has good reason to be offended. They reserve the right to be embarrassed and ashamed if they are offended by this.
Everyone that is offended by this, or "rabble rabble rabble"ing about it, should be rounded up and put in special death camps.

If no one has the right to criticize another person, then once again your commentary is misplaced.

That said, I'm all in favour of re-examing my attitude towards others.

Geodesic,

Thinking back, the article I read this in seemed to be most offended by the fact that he was wearing a swastika armband, which is even less offensive than a German uniform, since the swastika was a religious symbol for hundreds of years before the Nazi movement. It's like calling the carrying of the Olympic flame offensive, because of its associations with Nazism.

Did the followers of this religion wear red armbands and a military uniform? Lets not get into the semantics of wearing a swastika. Its the whole package.

Absolutely. Not to mention the fact that this story serves to spread a stereotype; people who wore Nazi uniforms were evil. People with fascistic principles or ideals, sure. But the monarchy still need to go. As if it wasn't enough that they own billions in property,art, etc, they only recently started paying taxes, and they receive millions every year from the government to help with "housekeeping".

Evil? No, no. I think the stereotype we're looking for is dumbshit. Put a Nazi uniform on and presto!! Its more effective than the dunce cap for conveying ones intelligence.

Vslayer,

for fucks sake, it was a costume party, if it was some normal kid no-one would care, why do the tabloids even follow him, he never did anything worth recognition, he was born into the royal family, great acheivement therei

its jsut like people who obsess over movie stars, they are just donig their job, their are people who do great things who are never even acknowledged, but if someone gets shown on TV they are important?? WTF??

Why do the tabloids follow him you ask? Have you been paying attention dude? He's the second bloody heir to the throne.

If he were a common peasant then of course no one would care -- we're not expecting the average person to function as a king one day.

(If I were concerned with fame, I'd rather be posting threads on Pitt & Aniston, Michael Jackson, Eminem. This isn't about fame, so stop trying to focus on that.)

Blue_Uk

What the hell? People dress up as gladiators and all kinds of people who would or most definatly have killed.

There's nothing wrong with dressing up as a Nazi - for one, the Nazis dressed very well!

You say there's nothing wrong with it. Fair enough, but I have a question for you:
What would you consider 'wrong' by your personal definition? Crossing the line?

By mine--again- he was in the wrong.

Beryl,

I know that plenty of people have good reason to be offended by Harry's actions, but I feel sure that it wasn't his intention to offend, nor is it fair that his actions even have the chance to offend so many people. I could dress up as a Nazi for a costume party and chances are the only people who could be offended by it would be the other people at the party.

Like I said, their intentions don't mean squat to me. I can walk through campus with a loaded uzi, but do you think security cares when I tell them it was my intention to take it to the science lab for analysis? It means only that I can be forgiven more easily than if, say, I had plans to massacre the student body.

Also, the fact that this was supposedly a private party is to me the same as saying that Ted Kaczyinsky was a private serial killer(differences aside). There's no such thing as privacy outside the safety of your home, and its foolish for Harry to expect that. Anything that makes it to national news -that I find interesting- deserves to be scrutinized in my eyes. Its worth the flak I get for being accused of jumping on the gossip train.

I also think that people should realize Prince Harry is not the first person to use the Nazi's as humor or as some form of entertainment; I'm not saying it's funny, but it is something that's been done before and something that to the best of my knowledge people don't usually take such issue with.

Ehh..have you ever been in contact with some sort of skinhead, or somebody who was doing it as a joke? If Harry were Palestinian, would it be fair of me to assume that he wasn't joking if he was aware that myself or another person might be offended?

I don't think it matters. If a person is willing to take that risk then they should be prepared to take all of the heat that comes with it and not expect any sympathy. Thats one of the reasons I find it so laughable when people jump to his defense. I mean-- If I'm overeacting, why should so many people take the time to step in and repeat the same thing- that 'we shouldn't criticize poor Harry, he was just having fun. Its only a costume'?

Basically, tell me why I'm wrong, not why its wrong for me to criticize-- there's absolutely nothing wrong if the criticism is constructive both ways, which I'm trying to facilitate

Kissing someone or talking to someone of the opposite gender isn't embarrassing, but it is the sort of thing that people tend to hear about when Harry or William does it. I'm sure it's not the most troublesome thing for them, but I should think that it would get rather obnoxious.

Yup, no fault of their own. They have hardly any privacy, not that I think their particularly deserving of any. Harry needs to sort that whole privacy thing out for himself. In the meantime, he can have his privacy by simply avoiding the papers, tv and gossip. Same way regular people deal with rumors. (It feels almost as if you're getting away with some dirty thing)

I would've been much more satisfied if Harry stated his intentions and refused to apologize instead of offering his complete conciliation. Real kings don't do that.

I am upset, but not specifically with you. Although I do still find the word "fag" offensive... not because you used it about Harry, but because it's a word that shouldn't be used.

But good people use the word 'fag' all the time. What if my intentions were good? What if I just wanted a ciggarette...?
j/k
ok, I take the word fag back. Swearing is something I hardly ever do. In this case, it was out of context.

 

[vslayer]

"Why do the tabloids follow him you ask? Have you been paying attention dude? He's the second bloody heir to the throne.

If he were a common peasant then of course no one would care -- we're not expecting the average person to function as a king one day."

the king has no power tho, the government can run completely separate to the crown

 

[slotty]

"Why do the tabloids follow him you ask? Have you been paying attention dude? He's the second bloody heir to the throne.

If he were a common peasant then of course no one would care -- we're not expecting the average person to function as a king one day."

the king has no power tho, the government can run completely separate to the crown

The tabloids were just having a no news day, its the paparazzi over here that follow people about, just hoping for the cash cow photograph like this one. It does'nt matter that he's the second in line, we get lots of silly stories about the royals fucking it up all the time. Its just that this one got a bit of international coverage. Dissolve the monachy, don't think it will ever happen, they bring in too much money in tourism etc. I'm not a huge fan of them, but i would'nt want to see them go. The inbreeding experiment is to much fun Mind you harry has buggered that one up, 'cos there aint no way prince charles is the father

 

[Beryl]

Beryl,

Ehh..have you ever been in contact with some sort of skinhead, or somebody who was doing it as a joke? If Harry were Palestinian, would it be fair of me to assume that he wasn't joking if he was aware that myself or another person might be offended?

Oh, so now Palestinians are Nazis? Interesting theory, but it doesn't carry much weight.

The sort of humor I was specifically speaking of was funny (or at least, attemptedly funny) movies with Nazis in them, et cetera.

I don't think it matters. If a person is willing to take that risk then they should be prepared to take all of the heat that comes with it and not expect any sympathy. Thats one of the reasons I find it so laughable when people jump to his defense. I mean-- If I'm overeacting, why should so many people take the time to step in and repeat the same thing- that 'we shouldn't criticize poor Harry, he was just having fun. Its only a costume'?

Uh... maybe because we don't like it when people overreact in a harmful way? I mean, if someone made you mad and you tried to kill them, would it be unreasonable for us to try to stop you? This is of course a milder than that, but it makes as much sense. Besides, I'm not sure Harry specifically does expect any sympathy. Does that mean I can't be sympathetic?

Basically, tell me why I'm wrong, not why its wrong for me to criticize-- there's absolutely nothing wrong if the criticism is constructive both ways, which I'm trying to facilitate

Why you're wrong about what?

Yup, no fault of their own. They have hardly any privacy, not that I think their particularly deserving of any. Harry needs to sort that whole privacy thing out for himself. In the meantime, he can have his privacy by simply avoiding the papers, tv and gossip. Same way regular people deal with rumors. (It feels almost as if you're getting away with some dirty thing)

I'm not getting away with anything, but plenty of people do. Not because they take any great care to maintain their privacy, either; it just comes pretty automatically to the most of us.

I would've been much more satisfied if Harry stated his intentions and refused to apologize instead of offering his complete conciliation. Real kings don't do that.

Wow, so would I have been. However, perhaps his course of action was really better... a simple "I'm sorry I offended people" instead of making known to everyone his reasons behind it. At least his thoughts are still private.

And Harry is not a King. There is a very good chance he never will be.

But good people use the word 'fag' all the time. What if my intentions were good? What if I just wanted a ciggarette...?
j/k
ok, I take the word fag back. Swearing is something I hardly ever do. In this case, it was out of context.

Thank you. (Although if you had good intentions, you're welcome to share them with us.)

 

[ZenEthics]

This is royalty folks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4170623.stm

I can't believe this insensitive fag, with the 60th anniversary for the liberation of auschwitz coming up? Why even pretend?? Its not funny or ironic.

After the queen dies, the British monarchy should be dissolved.

its pretty funny that after you use the word insensivite, you use a term relating to ones sexuality that is suppsed to be negative. being gay is a bad thing? whos the insensitive "fag" now?

also a huge thing you dont understand is the actual circumstances that lead up to him wearing a nazi uniform, i myself have some ww2 novelty items, and i find some good points in several things the nazis did differently than the rest of the world. does me owning a nazi uniform, make me an anti-semite?(well the answer is no, but im very anti religious so... i guess i am ona theological level, just not a racial level)

and who are you to be the judge of what is ultimately humor or not? do you even understand what humor is?


"sry just read first post and got pissed, didnt reallize ppl got onto before me., my bad"

 

[Tiassa]

Source: Scotsman.com
Link: http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4006930
Title: "MP to Renounce Queen's Oath after Harry's Nazi Gaffe"
Date: January 16, 2005

“My father suffered enormously at the hands of the Nazis and the stories he told me were horrific,” he said. “So to see that image was very upsetting.”

Palaszczuk said he would seek to withdraw his allegiance to the Queen – part of the oath of office for Australian MPs – at the start of parliamentary proceedings tomorrow.

Palaszczuk also said Harry’s subsequent apology did not go far enough.

“I don’t think that counts as a real apology,” he said.

Scotsman.com

Seems Harry's touched a nerve.

 

[Neildo]

And BTW, I take issue with anyone who dresses as a Nazi. I don't care what their intentions were or who they are.

I take it you're against any video game that allows one to play themself as a Nazi too? This is ridiculous. It's a costume party! What makes Nazi's so much worse than any other nation? I guess I'd hate to see an Iraqi dressed up as an American soldier, a Chinese person dressed up as a Japanese soldier of the Rising Sun, or an American dressed up as a Muslim.

The Japanese in WWII were more vile and malicious than Nazi's! At least Nazi's only killed a select groups whereas the Japanese did the same, if not worse, to anyone who flat out wasn't Japanese. And we all know how many people were victim to American bombs over time as well.

Now because Iraqi's, the Chinese, or even Americans may look at certain other countries in historical distaste, does that mean NOBODY whatsoever from any country can ever dress up as an a Muslim, an American or Japanese soldier? One can find fault being dressed up as anything. If it weren’t for Jews being so loud and whiney, Harry being dressed in his Nazi costume wouldn’t have been so bad. And no, all because one says something bad, no, actually true, about a Jew, it doesn’t mean I’m anti-semetic because I know that insult is gonna be coming my way, lol.

Evil? No, no. I think the stereotype we're looking for is dumbshit. Put a Nazi uniform on and presto!! Its more effective than the dunce cap for conveying ones intelligence.

How's putting on a Nazi uniform show one's intellegence as a "dumbshit"? There's nothing that should be shameful about being one. Everyone has various radical ideals no different than you or me and I'm sure many will claim ours are illogical or not realistic. The only shame a Nazi should have is in them having failed in their conquest just as America is going to feel like “dumbshits” when failing the crusade of trying to spread democracy throughout the world. We feel democracy is the best choice but not everyone. We're no different than Nazis. We’re forcefully spreading our own idealism on others. The Nazis put people in deathcamps and we bomb em. I don't care what method is used as the outcome is the same. In the end, both sides are either good or both sides are either bad. One side can’t be exempt from ridicule. The only reason why what we Americans are doing isn’t looked as being bad (well, it actually is, heh) is because we’re the #1 superpower in the world. Once we fail and are no longer a superpower, voices will be much louder. Imagine if another country were trying to do what we’re doing? They’d be looked at as monsters too.

- N

 

[Xerxes]

Tiassa,

I too, have withdrawn my support. And not just because of the Nazi thing. The monarchy is completely useless.

ZenEthics,

and who are you to be the judge of what is ultimately humor or not? do you even understand what humor is?

I judge everything. I'm me, me be, godamm, I am. Anybody who disagrees is welcome to challenge me to a wrestling match.

Another thing,- I'm not a loud person but my friends know me for my humor and good nature. Its rare for me to get this upset at something.

its pretty funny that after you use the word insensivite, you use a term relating to ones sexuality that is suppsed to be negative. being gay is a bad thing? whos the insensitive "fag" now?

I retracted it, not because I think its a bad word, but because its out of place. It has absolutely nothing to do with anyones sexuality, but 'fag' in its abstract form ie, deviant, unorthodox.

Beryl

Oh, so now Palestinians are Nazis? Interesting theory, but it doesn't carry much weight.

I left out some pertinant background info: I'm Jewish. If he knew this, given the bloodshed between our people, wouldn't it be in extremely bad taste? I know I wouldn't dress in military uniform around my arab friends.

Uh... maybe because we don't like it when people overreact in a harmful way? I mean, if someone made you mad and you tried to kill them, would it be unreasonable for us to try to stop you? This is of course a milder than that, but it makes as much sense. Besides, I'm not sure Harry specifically does expect any sympathy. Does that mean I can't be sympathetic?

To me, its a lot more harmful to undereact and keep it all pent up inside. I want to overreact so that people understand my disgust.

As for trying to kill Harry-- its not something I would even consider. You could try and stop, but it wouldn't do much good.

Also, you may be right- I don't think Harry expects sympathy from us, but I'm just saying that we should be complete free to voice our disgust. I try to feel sympathy for everyone, especially myself . In this case, there's nothing wrong with feeling sympathy for Harry's situation just as there's nothing wrong with feeling disgust, as long as we're both honest, both emotions are good things.

Why you're wrong about what?

Actually I was just using that as an opportunity to comment on what Dr Lou said about me not having a right to be offended. (point being that instead of saying that, he should have stated why)

I'm not getting away with anything, but plenty of people do. Not because they take any great care to maintain their privacy, either; it just comes pretty automatically to the most of us.

Agreed. Not saying that you are getting away with anything. Its all in our heads how we feel about privacy.

perhaps his course of action was really better... a simple "I'm sorry I offended people" instead of making known to everyone his reasons behind it. At least his thoughts are still private.

Personally, I don't think it did him any good. Its just giving critics more ammo 'cause it could easily be taken as a concilliatory sorry (like the australian mp did). I don't think he feels he did anything wrong ethically or morally, so I take it as a sign of insincerity which is worse.

Thank you. (Although if you had good intentions, you're welcome to share them with us.)

No good intentions, just bugging you about the whole benefit of the doubt thing.

Really, if I offended you, sorry

slotty,

Dissolve the monachy, don't think it will ever happen, they bring in too much money in tourism etc. I'm not a huge fan of them, but i would'nt want to see them go. The inbreeding experiment is to much fun Mind you harry has buggered that one up, 'cos there aint no way prince charles is the father

You're probably right. As long as people think its prestigious to get knighted, the monarchy will stick around. Just curious how long that will last.

vslayer,

the king has no power tho, the government can run completely separate to the crown

I realize that, but they have way too much influence and are too full of it to put it to good use. Therefore the monarchy should be discarded.

edit:
Neildo,
just saw your post, I'll respond tomorrow.

 

[Neildo]

Oh, so now Palestinians are Nazis? Interesting theory, but it doesn't carry much weight. - someone

I left out some pertinant background info: I'm Jewish. If he knew this, given the bloodshed between our people, wouldn't it be in extremely bad taste? I know I wouldn't dress in military uniform around my arab friends. - Xerses

Exactly, it would be in bad taste to wear an Israeli uniform "around" your Arab friends. However, does that stop you from being able to wear that uniform period? Nope. You say a person is automatically a "dumbshit" by wearing a Nazi uniform all because *you* may have been afflicted by those people, but what about people who weren't afflicted by them? For now on, nobody shall be allowed to wear an Israeli uniform period because of the tension between them and Arabs. And I'm not talking when you're around an Arab, but anywhere period even if you're in a place that don't mind Israelies.

Harry was having fun at his own party. The only people allowed to be offended by his costume are the ones at that ball. For anything else, they just need to shut the hell up and quit sticking their nose where it doesn’t belong.

Why is it though that Jews are able to scream bloody murder and always try to get their way when something offends them? They stick their noses into everything! I don't hear any other country or ethnic group complaining about someone wearing an outfit somewhere else on Earth of some country or group that did harm to them. Oh wait, there was the kid who wore a Hezbolah armband in some college and then, oh wait, it was Jewish people again that complained about that as well. Funny how it's always them complaining, telling others what to, and what not to, do. Quit being babies about everything, Yah-f'ing-weh.

Hey, and aren’t you offending yourself by having the posting handle of a Persian king? No wearing an Arab or Persian outfit near yourself or being called the name of one! See how ridiculous this can be? Just.. quit. .worrying.. so.. much..

- N

 

[ZenEthics]

I judge everything. I'm me, me be, godamm, I am. Anybody who disagrees is welcome to challenge me to a wrestling match.

i challenge you to a wresltling match.(being that i wreslted for 6 years of grade school and 4 of college) its actually very strange that you would make the one physical act that i excell at the challenge. thats a pretty big coincidence.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Why is it though that Jews are able to scream bloody murder and always try to get their way when something offends them? They stick their noses into everything! I don't hear any other country or ethnic group complaining about someone wearing an outfit somewhere else on Earth of some country or group that did harm to them.

The Nazis happened to 'dislike' other ethnic groups besides jews too. And even the ethnic groups they didn't particularly dislike they treated rather 'unpolitely'.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

He's right though, the japanese were at least as bad.
The point isn't that nazis were nice guys who were just misunderstood or anything like that, they were bad guys, they just weren't as outstandingly horrible as is made out.
They didn't do enough to warrant being singled out as the single most despicable force in the histoy of the world.
This crap with harry is such a big deal, not because of how bad the nazis actually were, but rather how adept jews are at complaining and blowing things out of proportion. They've built nazis into the epitome of evil rivalled by nothing known to man.
Like a thomsens gazelle saying to the zebra "cheetahs are the most horriffic brutal predator on the plains" and the zebra saying "I don't know, lions are pretty bad" to which the gazelle replies "Oh no, cheetahs are much worse" and the zebra says "yeah whatever, I don't care anymore" and the gazelle nods "yeah, you wouldn't, because lions are no where near as terrible as cheetahs are".
Jews were just determined to kick up the biggest stink of all victimised groups. Thats why "nazi" is such a popular term for describing evil.

I don't care if some loser is personally offended by a nazi outfit, thats like saying "Omg, my dad was hit by a blue train you insensitive jerk" when you see someone in a thomas the tank engine t-shirt. Get over it, douche.

 

[Tiassa]

(Insert Title Here)

Of all the reasons to renounce allegiance to the Crown, this just seems an odd catalyst.

Dr. Lou:

On the one hand, I agree that the Nazis, while bad guys, have become overstated poster children for evil. This might be explained at least in part by their stunning efficiency, the fact that their evil was carried out in plain sight, and also by the guilt of the industrialized world for not having intervened sooner.

To the other, the train didn't try to hit someone's dad. I don't think it's a fair comparison, as the device of will is different.

 

[Bells]

The kid went to a costume party. I don't think he walks around everywhere in a Nazi uniform. If he'd gone dressed as the devil he'd have probably been labelled as a Satanist or Devil worshipper. If he hadn't dressed up, he'd have been labelled as a party pooper for not playing along. It was a friggin costume party. Lou is right. Get over it.