Prerequisites for Spiritual Knowledge

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Crunchy Cat said:
Are 'God', 'souls', etc... being referred to as 'Idols' here? It wasn't clear if that was the case or if the statement was separate and referred to regular idols.

If it's the former then the religion is unclear to many of its followers that the assertions they hold as truth are place holders of speculation.
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Sorry I should have used symbols instead of idols. We're talking (or at least I am) about religious expressions of theism and how they are representations of an underlying belief in the concept of a universal consciousness (which is the basis for Eastern spiritual knowledge, the topic of the OP)
 
samcdkey said:
What these methods do is explore the various points of view and examine their relative validities. They pass no judgment about any one POV but lay out all the possibilities that may be assumed to exist and supporting/dissenting opinions for each. These explorations are very comprehensive and extend across several thousands of years. Ultimately what they offer is choice, to accept in part or whole, the point of view which best echoes your own after an examination of the whole. In the absence of any evidence for/against an objective reality, that may be considered the best available option.
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I can dig up the quote if needed, but LG did clearly assert that the knowledge gained by these methods create one or more new senses that detect the presence of 'God'.

What you are describing is a framework for adapting a persons cognitive geometry to a position that best fits their psychological needs. Unfortunately it sounds like it presents choices of fantasy and doesn't recognize that objective reality is pretty self-evident and humans are constrained in the breadth and depth of their visibility into objective-reality by their biology.
 
samcdkey said:
Not cornered sweets, I am explaining it, but based on our past conversations I doubt your willingness to look beyond your prejudices and understand what I am trying to say.
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Yeah, right. You're as bad as LG.:rolleyes:

One clarification: rituals are not always religious
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No clarifications are required, as I stated, rituals are prescribed procedures for conducting religious ceremonies, by definition. Look it up.

Rituals, beyond religion, are also any customary observance or practice, or any stereotyped behavior.
 
samcdkey said:
Sorry I should have used symbols instead of idols. We're talking (or at least I am) about religious expressions of theism and how they are representations of an underlying belief in the concept of a universal consciousness (which is the basis for Eastern spiritual knowledge, the topic of the OP)
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Gotcha and np. By Universal consciousness, are we talking about the universe as a whole being sentient?
 
Crunchy Cat said:
I can dig up the quote if needed, but LG did clearly assert that the knowledge gained by these methods create one or more new senses that detect the presence of 'God'.

What you are describing is a framework for adapting a persons cognitive geometry to a position that best fits their psychological needs. Unfortunately it sounds like it presents choices of fantasy and doesn't recognize that objective reality is pretty self-evident and humans are constrained in the breadth and depth of their visibility into objective-reality by their biology.
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Of course I am presenting an observers view point. LG is presenting his point of view and since he is a <insert theistic belief here> he will propose those points of view that he supports as his own. Just like I would the point of view of my religion. What we both recognise however (since we have both studied the same scriptures) is that our points of view are not exclusive but represent different schools of thought that are not mutually exclusive since they are based not on "objective reality" but our interpretation of and acceptance of one of many points of view possible under theism.
 
(Q) said:
Yeah, right. You're as bad as LG.:rolleyes:



No clarifications are required, as I stated, rituals are prescribed procedures for conducting religious ceremonies, by definition. Look it up.

Rituals, beyond religion, are also any customary observance or practice, or any stereotyped behavior.
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Blah blah blah
A ritual is a set of actions, performed mainly for their symbolic value, which is prescribed by a religion or by the traditions of a community.
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And thank you for your patience.
 
samcdkey said:
Blah blah blah

And thank you for your patience.

"A ritual is a set of actions, performed mainly for their symbolic value, which is prescribed by a religion or by the traditions of a community."
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Typical theist, always responding in the same way and then proceeds to make up their own definitions:
 
samcdkey said:
Of course I am presenting an observers view point. LG is presenting his point of view and since he is a <insert theistic belief here> he will propose those points of view that he supports as his own. Just like I would the point of view of my religion. What we both recognise however (since we have both studied the same scriptures) is that our points of view are not exclusive but represent different schools of thought that are not mutually exclusive since they are based not on "objective reality" but our interpretation of and acceptance of one of many points of view possible under theism.
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I can see the potential psychological benefit for the eastern theistic POV process and it seems flexible enough where you can custom balance truth vs. fantasy to meet your own needs.

IMO, there are probably better ways to achieve the same result without having to sacrafice truth or loosing sight of fantasy.
 
(Q) said:
Oh, I see, you bypassed the dictionary and went straight to wiki. And what exactly is the source for that?
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Is there a purpose to this?

Do you now wish to claim that religious rituals have no symbolism?

Are not associated with culture?

That nonreligious rituals have no symbolism or are not associated with culture?

Please clarify what is wrong with the definition I have given. For the purpose of my discussion (and in the context of what I wish to say) I have used the comprehensive definition of the word, one that does not target its etymology to specific instances of usage (as a dictionary does). I am interested in the concept of rituals here, for the purpose of this discussion, as a symbolic expression of a religious belief. Is there anything wrong with this definition? Does it distort the meaning of the word?

Do tell.
 
Crunchy Cat said:
I can see the potential psychological benefit for the eastern theistic POV process and it seems flexible enough where you can custom balance truth vs. fantasy to meet your own needs.

IMO, there are probably better ways to achieve the same result without having to sacrafice truth or loosing sight of fantasy.
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Hence it also embraces atheism and agnosticism, so someone like you, on reading the self same scriptures would embrace that school of thought. Does that clarify what I am saying?
 
samcdkey said:
Hence it also embraces atheism and agnosticism, so someone like you, on reading the self same scriptures would embrace that school of thought. Does that clarify what I am saying?
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I understand it. I am also asserting that to create a different system that focuses on human psychological needs without the option of magic=truth might be a better way to go.
 
Crunchy Cat said:
I understand it. I am also asserting that to create a different system that focuses on human psychological needs without the option of magic=truth might be a better way to go.
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The Indian culture has encountered countless religious/cultural invasions and survived relatively unchanged for 5000 years of known history. When you come up with a system that can work so well so long let me know.
 
Crunchy Cat said:
Anthropmorphization of reality. Got it.
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One of many possible interpretations...unless you have definitive evidence to backup your claim?

Or shall we believe you because ummm, since you say so, you MUST be right? ;)
 
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