Precognition

[duendy]

alright shaman_:
the people ASK for hypnoterapy. you refuse them their request--or argue them out of the idea, right?....what gives YOu that right to tellpepple what to do, cause YOU have this prejudice against the possible benefits of hypnotherapy

OK. say they agree and go along for your tests, which are blood tests, testing for rehypnol type drugs spontaneously happening in mum gran and two young boys simultanously which causes them all to see a spherical light object in the air wich they feeld deeply ttractedto, and havei forgot anything? a bain scan no doubt?
NOW---at the end of all that medical examination, and nothing untoward is found, wrong with teir blood, brain, etc. what ten?ho has those tests found out about what happened in the missing time they had. EVENTSthat happened IN themissing time? which is THE thing they want to kow in relation to seeing the UFO etc.

so....bottomline. in actual real life mum DIDhave hynoterapy and exprienced an abduction experence. but you will not respect her experience will you?
why not?.......you have speant a lo o time post after post raving aganst hypnotherapy. so nows yer chance to thoroughly try convince me of its total uselessness. go on........

 

[Crunchy Cat]

...in actual real life mum DIDhave hynoterapy and exprienced an abduction experence. but you will not respect her experience will you?
why not?.......you have speant a lo o time post after post raving aganst hypnotherapy. so nows yer chance to thoroughly try convince me of its total uselessness. go on........

I'll of course let shaman respond to the whole list of objections; however, I wanted to show two sources of evidence that assert:

* The experience of memory regression is really experienced.
* The content of memory regression has little to no correspondance with anything that happened in reality.

Here are the results of a 3rd party research effort:

http://www.discover.com/issues/aug-04/features/are-recovered-memories-real/?page=2

Here are the results of my personal experience:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=794052#post794052
Post: 04-04-05, 12:57 AM

 

[duendy]

In the latter part of your statement for sure. In the former it didn't appear so.

And necessary to communicate the point.

Logic is pretty much a label for the rules of reality.

m))))or more so, how e INTERPRET what IS 'logical'

The limitation I would see is that the rules can't be broken. As far as how humans apply it, I suspect there will be changes over time that make even better use of it. Consequently, I am not sure that 'chaos' is something that really exists. I've seen evidence that it's a subjective interpretation of not knowing all the variables in a highly dynamic envionrment.

me)))i am TALKIN CHAOS theory...?

Then it doesn't apply.

me))))yes understanding mythology very much DOES apply. for a sart you ca see your mindset's roots.....!is that, nothing??


Making the world a worse place with critical thinking, ethical decision making, and realtionship skills... now that's something to frame on the wall. My preference for looking at the roots of human behavior is with science, modeling, and experimentation. I might use mythology for validation of theory or evidence of behavior and I wouldn't likely use it for anything more.

me))))))when isay to undertand mythology i mean seeing suff like your heroic assurance 'logic' will lead the way, not realizing that your logic is cause of the fukin trouble in frst place.your worship of 'critical logic' IS the curse of the patriarchy. you and your 'schools' which denigrate freedom, and feelings.
i keeps hearing you go on about 'critical tinking' yet you wont apply it to looking at MYTHOLOGY. the roots. see the irony here?? i do!

If people are making decisions destructive to the ecosystem then it's very likely an educational issue of critical thinking, ethical decision making, or relationships. I can't think of any scenario that would contradict this. Can you?

well it depends how you define tose terms. checkout ECOLITERACY --a baby of Fritjof Capras www.ecoliteracy.org
we need MOREthan cerebreal emphsis. thats been the thing throughout the long time of the mess of it ll. what we really radcially need is not mre fukin THHKING--as in head divided from BODY/ENVIRONMENT'thinking' but rathe deeper F E E Ling WITH Nature in an ecstatic way, and THEN integration. THAT is the Indigenous way. you know, the poples that tepatriarchy crushed under its power-over 'intellectual superiority'?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

m))))or more so, how e INTERPRET what IS 'logical'

That's the process component, i.e. critical thinking... applying logic to interpretation of information.

me)))i am TALKIN CHAOS theory...?

Oh! Ok, it's just a bad name for a theory. The technical definition of chaos (complete and utter disorder) doesn't mesh with the title of the theory or its content. In the theory, chaos is being defined as a set of criteria:

something must be sensitive to initial conditions
something must be topologically mixing
something's periodic orbits must be dense

or to sum it up... dynamic variables of a high degree of complexity.

me))))yes understanding mythology very much DOES apply. for a sart you ca see your mindset's roots.....!is that, nothing??

I probably communicated the wrong message, my bad. Mythology is a great way to look at the mindset's roots and there are other ways to do so as well. What I do want to communicate is that mythology won't yield an answer to how gravity works; although, it might be used to predict what future thought processes may look like and using those predicted processes might help people find reality-based answers quicker; although, IMO that is speculation at best.

me))))))when isay to undertand mythology i mean seeing suff like your heroic assurance 'logic' will lead the way, not realizing that your logic is cause of the fukin trouble in frst place.your worship of 'critical logic' IS the curse of the patriarchy. you and your 'schools' which denigrate freedom, and feelings.
i keeps hearing you go on about 'critical tinking' yet you wont apply it to looking at MYTHOLOGY. the roots. see the irony here?? i do!

Hmmm. I think that might be a stereotype again. I don't think that logic will 'lead anything'. Science and critical thinking are processes... think of them as tools. A hammer doesn't lead anything... it just kicks ass at slamming nails into materials. I also don't worship anything... let alone a thought process. Maybe you're confusing my trust in that reality equates to truth for something else?

Law, space, and financial independence are what determine's freedom. That's a society thing... not a school thing. I disagree with your assertion about schools and critical thinking. That topic isn't introduced until college and that means 12 years of education go by without any development of critical thinking, ethical decision making, and relationship skills. Now, that sucks ass.

I know you're all in an uproar about mythology and it might allow me to peer into historical human behavior / thought and possibly pred future behaviors / thoughts. There is more it doesn't provide me that I do care about. It can't show me how to use photons as a replacement for electrical energy. It can't show me the contents of a magnetic field. It can't show me how to eliminate a retrovirus. It can't show me the origins of our species. It can't show me the origins of space. In other words, it has some big limitations concerning the exploration of things that I care about.

well it depends how you define tose terms. checkout ECOLITERACY --a baby of Fritjof Capras www.ecoliteracy.org
we need MOREthan cerebreal emphsis. thats been the thing throughout the long time of the mess of it ll. what we really radcially need is not mre fukin THHKING--as in head divided from BODY/ENVIRONMENT'thinking' but rathe deeper F E E Ling WITH Nature in an ecstatic way, and THEN integration. THAT is the Indigenous way. you know, the poples that tepatriarchy crushed under its power-over 'intellectual superiority'?

I am using the definitions that apply to people and their environment. I agree that people are mentally and physically seperated from an envionrment that would promote optimal mental and physical health. I agree that greater ecological literacy and relationship with the environment is needed.

I disagree that engaging the ways of past and taking psychodelics is the way to go. That's not adaption. That's regression.

 

[duendy]

That's the process component, i.e. critical thinking... applying logic to interpretation of information.

me)))))for a start. not ALL even DIG what you want. ypu seem to want to impose a mono
apporach to understanding reality...? some people are n't in to philosophy, and are more image oriented. actally i feel ALL are but that anglo-american analytical philosophy as usual, bein a continuance of patriarchal attitudes, looks down on subectivity. you are saying so yourself. and i am sayin that logic is a tool OF a deeper sense of reality, not its 'ruler'. this is not a reversal of your position for like said i dont divide emotion/feeling from logic

Oh! Ok, it's just a bad name for a theory. The technical definition of chaos (complete and utter disorder) doesn't mesh with the title of the theory or its content. In the theory, chaos is being defined as a set of criteria:

something must be sensitive to initial conditions
something must be topologically mixing
something's periodic orbits must be dense

or to sum it up... dynamic variables of a high degree of complexity.

me))i am meaning that in seeming complexity is order. whereas patriarchal thinking ends to be fearful of chaotic or wild subjective consciousness


I probably communicated the wrong message, my bad. Mythology is a great way to look at the mindset's roots and there are other ways to do so as well. What I do want to communicate is that mythology won't yield an answer to how gravity works; although, it might be used to predict what future thought processes may look like and using those predicted processes might help people find reality-based answers quicker; although, IMO that is speculation at best.

me))how gravity works. why? for more war machines?? cause that's how i see that mindset. rather we need to know how to live wit deep respect for Nature. that is FIRST. and to do tat we have to understand the ROOTS of our prsnt severe problems.

Hmmm. I think that might be a stereotype again. I don't think that logic will 'lead anything'. Science and critical thinking are processes... think of them as tools. A hammer doesn't lead anything... it just kicks ass at slamming nails into materials. I also don't worship anything... let alone a thought process. Maybe you're confusing my trust in that reality equates to truth for something else?

me))maybe iam. words can be difficult.....? i see you say logic's a tool. i feel its a tool to inform a more organic sense of intelligence. that isn't just me,you, our species, but our species as also continuum with environment

Law, space, and financial independence are what determine's freedom. That's a society thing... not a school thing. I disagree with your assertion about schools and critical thinking. That topic isn't introduced until college and that means 12 years of education go by without any development of critical thinking, ethical decision making, and relationship skills. Now, that sucks ass.

me))haha..no, i mean, schools, colleges, univerisites, are all indoctrinating places which indoctrinate mterialistic philosophy and industrial fascism

I know you're all in an uproar about mythology and it might allow me to peer into historical human behavior / thought and possibly pred future behaviors / thoughts. There is more it doesn't provide me that I do care about. It can't show me how to use photons as a replacement for electrical energy. It can't show me the contents of a magnetic field. It can't show me how to eliminate a retrovirus. It can't show me the origins of our species. It can't show me the origins of space. In other words, it has some big limitations concerning the exploration of things that I care about.

me)))you seem to me to be thinking divisivly. drawing dichotomy between exploration of material reality, and inderstand roots of our mindset, and polar related reality

I am using the definitions that apply to people and their environment. I agree that people are mentally and physically seperated from an envionrment that would promote optimal mental and physical health. I agree that greater ecological literacy and relationship with the environment is needed.

me)))yes agreed

I disagree that engaging the ways of past and taking psychodelics is the way to go. That's not adaption. That's regression.

but you see so-called PRogression has brought us tis catastrophe we face toay, and not only us but many many species, and generations to come. again see a dichotomy being created between regression and pogression. tis is why what happens next has to be radical. we cannot continue wit this superior attitude --weternocentrc attitude of positivism. tis is another reasom you need to look at mythology, because it refeals quite clearly how patriarchy has wanted to conquer Nature, and...can't you see, this is cntinuuing!....Simultaneously patriarchy has waged far on sacraments for many many centuries and THAT continues with so-called war on drugs. This is a massive clue of the maintainance of dominating influences whicxh has lost all feeling and ethical sensibility and responsibility

 

[Crunchy Cat]

me)))))for a start. not ALL even DIG what you want. ypu seem to want to impose a mono
apporach to understanding reality...? some people are n't in to philosophy, and are more image oriented. actally i feel ALL are but that anglo-american analytical philosophy as usual, bein a continuance of patriarchal attitudes, looks down on subectivity. you are saying so yourself. and i am sayin that logic is a tool OF a deeper sense of reality, not its 'ruler'. this is not a reversal of your position for like said i dont divide emotion/feeling from logic

I want the approach that works best to be a best practice. By measuring results, science and critical thinking are the processes that work best towards understanding reality. I don't think people look down on subjectivity. I think people use science and critical thinking to help understand it. I think when people claim subjective experience has a 1:1 correlation with reality that problems occur. Similarly, I don't understand the phrase 'logic is a tool of a deeper sense of reality'. Clarification would be appreciated.

me))i am meaning that in seeming complexity is order. whereas patriarchal thinking ends to be fearful of chaotic or wild subjective consciousness

I think people are fearful of the hard work and slow return to understand the ultra complex. Look at how long it took to map the human genome and how much work was involved. That's a human issue. People tend to gravitate towards tasks that give them faster results.

I probably communicated the wrong message, my bad. Mythology is a great way to look at the mindset's roots and there are other ways to do so as well. What I do want to communicate is that mythology won't yield an answer to how gravity works; although, it might be used to predict what future thought processes may look like and using those predicted processes might help people find reality-based answers quicker; although, IMO that is speculation at best.

me))how gravity works. why? for more war machines?? cause that's how i see that mindset. rather we need to know how to live wit deep respect for Nature. that is FIRST. and to do tat we have to understand the ROOTS of our prsnt severe problems.

That's a clear sterotype of intent. When I wrote that sentence, what was on my mind were benefits in travel (anti-grav engines for example). IMO, the roots of many of the categorized problems are basic human behaviors. 'Belief' is a really big one. It spawned out of evolutionary benefit, but kicks people's ass on a daily basis. The other is self-segregation. Why do the 3 chinese people in a room full of white people cluster together? These are all built-in human behaviors that don't mesh well with our level of understanding. We don't have any means at present to eliminate the behaviors; however, we can educate people about them, why they exist, how to recognize them, and how to manage them.

me))maybe iam. words can be difficult.....? i see you say logic's a tool. i feel its a tool to inform a more organic sense of intelligence. that isn't just me,you, our species, but our species as also continuum with environment

Words can be tricky in the English language. It's not logic that's the tool. Logic is a label for the rules of reality. Critical thinking is the tool that lets us interpret information with Logic. I know the distinction might be subtle. We actually have quite a bit of logic built into our everyday thinking. Run and catch a football and you're naturally performing calculus. So, your assertion in that it's already part of our thoughts and actions is correct. When you feel scared at the sight of an asteriod hurling towards you, it's because your natural calculus ability predicts that sucker is gonna hit you and that's gonna hurt. So it's there. It's interwoven strongly with emotion... all for the purpose of reproduction. Without critical thinking; however, what we can do with logic is limited to our biology and biological purpose.

me))haha..no, i mean, schools, colleges, univerisites, are all indoctrinating places which indoctrinate mterialistic philosophy and industrial fascism

I've had some teachers that are pretty out-there. My experience going from pre-school through college doesn't support that assertion.

me)))you seem to me to be thinking divisivly. drawing dichotomy between exploration of material reality, and inderstand roots of our mindset, and polar related reality

In a way. I am considering the best tool for the job. If I want to hammer a nail into wood then I am going to use a hammer and not an acetylene torch.

me)))yes agreed

3 times already. Scary!

but you see so-called PRogression has brought us tis catastrophe we face toay, and not only us but many many species, and generations to come. again see a dichotomy being created between regression and pogression. tis is why what happens next has to be radical. we cannot continue wit this superior attitude --weternocentrc attitude of positivism. tis is another reasom you need to look at mythology, because it refeals quite clearly how patriarchy has wanted to conquer Nature, and...can't you see, this is cntinuuing!....Simultaneously patriarchy has waged far on sacraments for many many centuries and THAT continues with so-called war on drugs. This is a massive clue of the maintainance of dominating influences whicxh has lost all feeling and ethical sensibility and responsibility

There are far worst catastrophies that have happened than what we face today. Huge asteroids and huge volcano's wiping out 90% of life on earth. It doesn't take mythological research to know that humans like to conquer things (another one of those built-in behaviors). I personally think it's an eductional issue that crosses between ethics and relationships.

Consequently, I can hardly blame making LSD illegal being responsible for poor ethical decision making and poor relationship skills. While something in the past might have started off as a war on sacraments, we're in a very different environment today and know alot more than people did then. I am sure you see that pattern with war on scaraments equating to the war on drugs and the relationship of human knowledge of then vs. now doesn't share the same equality. Things are different.

One thing I do want to point out is that to live life we have to take risks and I get the sense you might be risk-adverse. By all means we should take what we've learned and minimize negative outcomes and by no means should we avoid risk.

 

[duendy]

I want the approach that works best to be a best practice. By measuring results, science and critical thinking are the processes that work best towards understanding reality. I don't think people look down on subjectivity. I think people use science and critical thinking to help understand it. I think when people claim subjective experience has a 1:1 correlation with reality that problems occur. Similarly, I don't understand the phrase 'logic is a tool of a deeper sense of reality'. Clarification would be appreciated.

me))i am meaning i cnnot turn a blind eye to the state of tings after 500 years of mechancial thiking--call it critical or whatever. and that the radical turnround has to FIRST come from ecological awaeness, NOT measurement for 'progress'. if yur dream is sapce travel. well...hmmmmm, what you'll will do is take your unresolved shit into the universe. The Greys is a good exaple. i do NOTlike THEIR eithics, if they actually exist. no matter HOW techologically superior they are!

I think people are fearful of the hard work and slow return to understand the ultra complex. Look at how long it took to map the human genome and how much work was involved. That's a human issue. People tend to gravitate towards tasks that give them faster results.

me))))what about the'work' that creates organic reality.......which is natural. MUC more impressive for me. It is organic intelligencewwe need to understand, not how samrt we are. IFour 'smartness' willy nilly feeds the military industrial complex as modern physics has!

I probably communicated the wrong message, my bad. Mythology is a great way to look at the mindset's roots and there are other ways to do so as well. What I do want to communicate is that mythology won't yield an answer to how gravity works; although, it might be used to predict what future thought processes may look like and using those predicted processes might help people find reality-based answers quicker; although, IMO that is speculation at best.

me)))see above bout space traveldreams

That's a clear sterotype of intent. When I wrote that sentence, what was on my mind were benefits in travel (anti-grav engines for example). IMO, the roots of many of the categorized problems are basic human behaviors. 'Belief' is a really big one. It spawned out of evolutionary benefit, but kicks people's ass on a daily basis. The other is self-segregation. Why do the 3 chinese people in a room full of white people cluster together? These are all built-in human behaviors that don't mesh well with our level of understanding. We don't have any means at present to eliminate the behaviors; however, we can educate people about them, why they exist, how to recognize them, and how to manage them.

me)))but hah...WHY pick on the Chinese clique?? are not te ...whites? also cliqueing together gossiping about the Chinese clique? which is hypocrisy
what i man is that when you really look at mythology you ARElooking at the whole of it, and how it CA divide people. EVEN when they apparently share same mythic root like for example Abrahamic root. look at their endless conflicts and fukin wars,,,!

Words can be tricky in the English language. It's not logic that's the tool. Logic is a label for the rules of reality. Critical thinking is the tool that lets us interpret information with Logic. I know the distinction might be subtle. We actually have quite a bit of logic built into our everyday thinking. Run and catch a football and you're naturally performing calculus. So, your assertion in that it's already part of our thoughts and actions is correct. When you feel scared at the sight of an asteriod hurling towards you, it's because your natural calculus ability predicts that sucker is gonna hit you and that's gonna hurt. So it's there. It's interwoven strongly with emotion... all for the purpose of reproduction. Without critical thinking; however, what we can do with logic is limited to our biology and biological purpose.

yes...on a deep level 'logic' and 'emotion' are abstracted out entities. when i feel in actuality they are interwoven. This is Intelligence.
Whewn a mindset create 'rules of logic' what is being done really is oppressive INTEPRETATION. tis is clearly seen in ho materialistic science believes the 'rules of logic' mean that consciousnss is produced from the brain. There is no proof whatsoever for this belief, but they would argue it is so.

I've had some teachers that are pretty out-there. My experience going from pre-school through college doesn't support that assertion.

me)))miiiine do!
and you know. tis is why i dont really ...respect your idea of critical thinking. why? cause it wont examine te very premise. it wont examine the schooling SYSTEM itself. so it is irony on ironies. self-defeating, and fruitless.

In a way. I am considering the best tool for the job. If I want to hammer a nail into wood then I am going to use a hammer and not an acetylene torch.



3 times already. Scary!



There are far worst catastrophies that have happened than what we face today. Huge asteroids and huge volcano's wiping out 90% of life on earth. It doesn't take mythological research to know that humans like to conquer things (another one of those built-in behaviors). I personally think it's an eductional issue that crosses between ethics and relationships.

me)))noooooo.that is propganda all this idea humans are natrually wanting to conquer Nature. it is a patriarchal MINDSET that doesit and propaganderizes that it is inherent in humanity. you see CC the irony. you preach continuously abot critical tinking but again and again i see you dont actually apply it!

Consequently, I can hardly blame making LSD illegal being responsible for poor ethical decision making and poor relationship skills. While something in the past might have started off as a war on sacraments, we're in a very different environment today and know alot more than people did then. I am sure you see that pattern with war on scaraments equating to the war on drugs and the relationship of human knowledge of then vs. now doesn't share the same equality. Thi

 

[duendy]

this CC is addressing final prt of your post.........we greatly differ, me and you mate with our views. and ifeel you and i may nefer agree. who knows

it is central that we dig the role war on drugshas had thrughout te oppressive regime of the patriarchy!! cetral. for you NOT to see ts again throws into question your whole worship of yur s-called critical tinking. YOUR critical thinking is no isk taker at all. it wants to stay witing tesafe confines of objectivist boundary within which it cannot even see critically what its mode of operation is doing to community and planet Earth

You will one day HAVEto face the past, and what your mindset is a part of, for thepast will not go away. it is with you.
time and eternity are interelated. Indiegenous peopls know tis, but mchanical man crushes on 'progressing' into more and more toxic wasteland. affecting not oly silly old he, but EVERY living thing and future generation not eve here yet.
But for you i suppose, ignoreance is bliss cause your not apparently even aware of what i mean. but this ignorance is NOT bliss!

 

[Crunchy Cat]

me))i am meaning i cnnot turn a blind eye to the state of tings after 500 years of mechancial thiking--call it critical or whatever. and that the radical turnround has to FIRST come from ecological awaeness, NOT measurement for 'progress'. if yur dream is sapce travel. well...hmmmmm, what you'll will do is take your unresolved shit into the universe. The Greys is a good exaple. i do NOTlike THEIR eithics, if they actually exist. no matter HOW techologically superior they are!

You know my view on this. It's an educational issue and ecological awarness is only a subset of it. "The greys...i don't like... if they actually exist..."? I'll just put that one to the side and pretend I didn't see it.

me))))what about the'work' that creates organic reality.......which is natural. MUC more impressive for me. It is organic intelligencewwe need to understand, not how samrt we are. IFour 'smartness' willy nilly feeds the military industrial complex as modern physics has!

Huh? I didn't understand that.

me)))but hah...WHY pick on the Chinese clique?? are not te ...whites? also cliqueing together gossiping about the Chinese clique? which is hypocrisy
what i man is that when you really look at mythology you ARElooking at the whole of it, and how it CA divide people. EVEN when they apparently share same mythic root like for example Abrahamic root. look at their endless conflicts and fukin wars,,,!

Because they are the minority in the example and statistically exhibit the same behavior. I could make the minority white people and the majority mongolian. The result would be the same. Will the clique's talk about each other once formed? Of course. Mythology doesn't make the natural behaviors of people. It's the other way around. People naturally segragate.

yes...on a deep level 'logic' and 'emotion' are abstracted out entities. when i feel in actuality they are interwoven. This is Intelligence.
Whewn a mindset create 'rules of logic' what is being done really is oppressive INTEPRETATION. tis is clearly seen in ho materialistic science believes the 'rules of logic' mean that consciousnss is produced from the brain. There is no proof whatsoever for this belief, but they would argue it is so.

You are correct that there is no proof that consciousness is produced by the brain. There is evidence and certainly not enough to be conclusive. I don't think people are accepting it as fact; however, they are promoting the path of following the evidence (which works).

me)))miiiine do!
and you know. tis is why i dont really ...respect your idea of critical thinking. why? cause it wont examine te very premise. it wont examine the schooling SYSTEM itself. so it is irony on ironies. self-defeating, and fruitless.

I think it's being anthropomorphized here. Critical thinking isn't a living entity that examine's things on its own. It is a process. It needs a person to wield it. My use of critical thinking shows me that the quality and quantity of infformation reaching students is better than ever. My use of critical thinking shows me that there are alot of information processing and emotional processing issues with graduated students. It takes more than one person to change a school system. Trust me when I say this... the vast majority of people in the U.S. are NOT using critical thinking.

me)))noooooo.that is propganda all this idea humans are natrually wanting to conquer Nature. it is a patriarchal MINDSET that doesit and propaganderizes that it is inherent in humanity. you see CC the irony. you preach continuously abot critical tinking but again and again i see you dont actually apply it!

I never said people wanted to conquer nature. I said that it's a natural behavior of people to want to conquer things... i.e. be dominant, controlling, and competitive. This behavior can be observed with ANY group of young children in the world... any. Critical thinking shows us:

* Is the behavior observable? - Yes
* Is the behavior consistent? - Yes
* Is the behavior independent of culture / education? - Yes
* Therefore, the behavior is natural and 'built-in'.

That's application independent of "preaching".

 

[Crunchy Cat]

this CC is addressing final prt of your post.........we greatly differ, me and you mate with our views. and ifeel you and i may nefer agree. who knows

The goal of this conversation wasn't to reach agreements. It was for you to interact with me strictly on your terms because there was evidence of sterotypes of people who think like me holding back your personal development.

it is central that we dig the role war on drugshas had thrughout te oppressive regime of the patriarchy!! cetral. for you NOT to see ts again throws into question your whole worship of yur s-called critical tinking. YOUR critical thinking is no isk taker at all. it wants to stay witing tesafe confines of objectivist boundary within which it cannot even see critically what its mode of operation is doing to community and planet Earth

The is an example of a message that is not penetrating that large filter. Critical thinking is a process. It is not a religion, icon, or anything that people worship. It requires a human to wield the process. It is not a living entity. It is not responsible for poor decision making and unethical decision making with actions taken on earth that produced negative outcomes. I suspect most people whom you would accuse of destroying the planet with critical thinking aren't even wielding critical thinking. It might even be worth going through the exercise of you showing your top 10 accusations and me finding contradictive evidence to the actual decision maker being a critical thinker.

You will one day HAVEto face the past, and what your mindset is a part of, for thepast will not go away. it is with you.
time and eternity are interelated. Indiegenous peopls know tis, but mchanical man crushes on 'progressing' into more and more toxic wasteland. affecting not oly silly old he, but EVERY living thing and future generation not eve here yet.
But for you i suppose, ignoreance is bliss cause your not apparently even aware of what i mean. but this ignorance is NOT bliss!

I face the past quite frequently and I do it more often from the perspective of human behavior rather than mythology. I suspect you think / want all the problems in the world are due to critical thinking and science... rather than the people whom are lacking in various ethical, relationship, process, and knowledge education. I can show you contradictive evidence and you can not show me lack of evidence and I don't think any of it would convince you. What I see is a firm 'belief' that you really value above and beyond anything else.

 

[Giambattista]

Okay. Well you can discuss the experience that I had later. It's on page 2 of this thread, I believe.

 

[duendy]

You know my view on this. It's an educational issue and ecological awarness is only a subset of it. "The greys...i don't like... if they actually exist..."? I'll just put that one to the side and pretend I didn't see it.

me)))NO! Ecology is CENTRAL.
as for the 'Greys'. i am more open about that phenomena than your attitude reveals you to be. But look away...hey.

Huh? I didn't understand that.
What i am saying is....organic reality is not made. it is creative intelligence. natruao organic intelligence. what te mechanical mindset does with its deification of measure is discover/unleash
very destructive toxic waste, and extremely powerful energies,like nuclear-powerful, which are then used by State for it s wars, genocide and, ecocide

Because they are the minority in the example and statistically exhibit the same behavior. I could make the minority white people and the majority mongolian. The result would be the same. Will the clique's talk about each other once formed? Of course. Mythology doesn't make the natural behaviors of people. It's the other way around. People naturally segragate.

me))))))again, these are assumption coming from long long patriarchal domination which creates segrgation in its very divisive belief systems!

You are correct that there is no proof that consciousness is produced by the brain. There is evidence and certainly not enough to be conclusive. I don't think people are accepting it as fact; however, they are promoting the path of following the evidence (which works).
no there isn't evidence. yes it is generally accepted by all State institutions. and its philosophy most definately ISN't wokin!

I think it's being anthropomorphized here. Critical thinking isn't a living entity that examine's things on its own. It is a process. It needs a person to wield it. My use of critical thinking shows me that the quality and quantity of infformation reaching students is better than ever. My use of critical thinking shows me that there are alot of information processing and emotional processing issues with graduated students. It takes more than one person to change a school system. Trust me when I say this... the vast majority of people in the U.S. are NOT using critical thinking.

me))yes it CAn be a process when it is flexible and grounded by deeper feeling. i dont see that wit you. i am being honest. and your right, so-called education is a dumbing down. this is so.

I never said people wanted to conquer nature. I said that it's a natural behavior of people to want to conquer things... i.e. be dominant, controlling, and competitive. This behavior can be observed with ANY group of young children in the world... any. Critical thinking shows us:

me)))rubbish. and you simple just changed the wording of te sentence to say same ting!
your 'criical thinking' and/or so-called education has you believing that. that children and adults natrually want to conquer Nature. hah dude, see it. of course you see tis behaviour. it is indoctrinated in the schools. and in cultural 'relationship'!

* Is the behavior observable? - Yes
* Is the behavior consistent? - Yes
* Is the behavior independent of culture / education? - Yes

me)))))NO

* Therefore, the behavior is natural and 'built-in'.

That's application independent of "preaching".

no that is an example of mechanical critical thinking which done lost its soul

 

[duendy]

The goal of this conversation wasn't to reach agreements. It was for you to interact with me strictly on your terms because there was evidence of sterotypes of people who think like me holding back your personal development.

me)))ohhhhh...dont know what to say....?

The is an example of a message that is not penetrating that large filter. Critical thinking is a process. It is not a religion, icon, or anything that people worship. It requires a human to wield the process. It is not a living entity. It is not responsible for poor decision making and unethical decision making with actions taken on earth that produced negative outcomes. I suspect most people whom you would accuse of destroying the planet with critical thinking aren't even wielding critical thinking. It might even be worth going through the exercise of you showing your top 10 accusations and me finding contradictive evidence to the actual decision maker being a critical thinker.

me))))have done. pay attentionny....
it is -your critical thinking is not some unattachedentity not in relation wit your subjectivity. your foolin yourself. and i am seeing its limitations.

I face the past quite frequently and I do it more often from the perspective of human behavior rather than mythology. I suspect you think / want all the problems in the world are due to critical thinking and science... rather than the people whom are lacking in various ethical, relationship, process, and knowledge education. I can show you contradictive evidence and you can not show me lack of evidence and I don't think any of it would convince you. What I see is a firm 'belief' that you really value above and beyond anything else.

i see what i see. i explore what i explore using both critical thinkin and feelin
I am clearly saying tat there has been/and still is a patriarchal worldview which maintains its power-over throug various branches of religions, and ideologies, and tat these are divisive and have caused and coninue to cause pople, other species, and Nature itself much much oppression and distress. in fact it is disaster! There is an URGENT need for radical change!

 

[Crunchy Cat]

me)))NO! Ecology is CENTRAL.
as for the 'Greys'. i am more open about that phenomena than your attitude reveals you to be. But look away...hey.

I disagree. I've seen positive advancement when ethics, critical thinking, science, and relationship skills used at once. I've never seen anything close come from ecology-centric approaches; however, I am open to seeing any evidence you might posess.

BTW, I looked the other way regarding the statement that claimed aliens existed, claimed a dislike of their ethics, and then put in a condition 'if' they existed. That's a combination contradiction and conditional bias.

What i am saying is....organic reality is not made. it is creative intelligence. natruao organic intelligence. what te mechanical mindset does with its deification of measure is discover/unleash
very destructive toxic waste, and extremely powerful energies,like nuclear-powerful, which are then used by State for it s wars, genocide and, ecocide

I still don't understand what's being stated.

me))))))again, these are assumption coming from long long patriarchal domination which creates segrgation in its very divisive belief systems!

They are not assumptions. They are observations of occurances of human behavior within reality and they are reproducible. Consequently, patriarchal mythology doesn't determine basic human behavior (which is where segregation comes from). That is what it is and exists becuase it has helped humans survive.

no there isn't evidence. yes it is generally accepted by all State institutions. and its philosophy most definately ISN't wokin!

Of course there is evidence. Just like evolution, I can point you to where to begin and there is an education component necessary to gain a good understanding of it. Again, it's not enough to produce any conclusions. It's just the state of knowledge as of today.

I think it's being anthropomorphized here. Critical thinking isn't a living entity that examine's things on its own. It is a process. It needs a person to wield it. My use of critical thinking shows me that the quality and quantity of infformation reaching students is better than ever. My use of critical thinking shows me that there are alot of information processing and emotional processing issues with graduated students. It takes more than one person to change a school system. Trust me when I say this... the vast majority of people in the U.S. are NOT using critical thinking.

me))yes it CAn be a process when it is flexible and grounded by deeper feeling.

If this means the flexability is not the process itself but when to apply it (guided by emotion or vice versa... not to be confused by 'ruled') then YES!! You got it... and I agree.

i dont see that wit you. i am being honest. and your right, so-called education is a dumbing down. this is so.

Thats a-ok and I'm glad you agree with the state of the education system.

me)))rubbish. and you simple just changed the wording of te sentence to say same ting!
your 'criical thinking' and/or so-called education has you believing that. that children and adults natrually want to conquer Nature. hah dude, see it. of course you see tis behaviour. it is indoctrinated in the schools. and in cultural 'relationship'!

It's not rubbish at all and the sentence structure was changed to show that the desire to conquer is a natural behavior that isn't fixated on nature. With any claim I make that is being disputed, I will always of course be happy to provide evidence.

DEFINITION:
con·quer ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kngkr)
v. con·quered, con·quer·ing, con·quers
1. To defeat or subdue by force, especially by force of arms.
2. To be victorious; win.

FOLLOW-THE-LOGIC:
* Do children naturally play? - Yes
* Do children naturally like to win? - Yes
* Do children play games using force? - Yes
* Do children play sports with each other? - Yes
* Do children play sports to win? - Yes
* Does winning gain children social dominance with others? - Yes
* Does winning indicate good control of 'the game'? - Yes
* Do these behaviors align to the definition of 'conquer'? - Yes
* THEREFORE; children have a natural behavior to conquer.
* THEREFORE; humans have a natural behavior to conquer.

Additionally, just because humans have a natural behavior, doesn't mean it will automatically be exercised in a destructive way.

me)))))NO

Feel free to show any contradictory evidence.

no that is an example of mechanical critical thinking which done lost its soul

You're anthropomorphizing the process again and diverting the direction of the conversation without addressing the assertion.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

me)))ohhhhh...dont know what to say....?

How about... sala kadula mitcha kabula bibity bobity boo?

me))))have done. pay attentionny....
it is -your critical thinking is not some unattachedentity not in relation wit your subjectivity. your foolin yourself. and i am seeing its limitations.

When critical thinking is actively applied it can be influenced by subjective thought. Prior to application it exists as a pure process. Maybe that distinction is too subtle for a non-native English writer.

i see what i see. i explore what i explore using both critical thinkin and feelin
I am clearly saying tat there has been/and still is a patriarchal worldview which maintains its power-over throug various branches of religions, and ideologies, and tat these are divisive and have caused and coninue to cause pople, other species, and Nature itself much much oppression and distress. in fact it is disaster! There is an URGENT need for radical change!

IMO, you're blaming mythology on normal human behavior and poor education. If you really want to influence change then evidence, theory, critical thinking, ethics, relationships, and deep knowledge will have to be applied in tandem to the right places that drive change. Alot of what I have just listed I haven't seen evidence for in your communications.

 

[duendy]

CC.....i havehad it with you dude. i dont mean you any harm or whatever, but you are impossible to discuss with. you do not seem to understand most of what i mean, and just keep coming back wit yet more contraditions to what i am trying to say. no doubt you feel same about me...hehe

so. what i mean is. this couod go on ad nauseum. so---the famous: 'we must agree to differ', is in order, and allow po Giambiassta to get his thread back!

 

[shaman_]

After this..

alright shaman_:
the people ASK for hypnoterapy. you refuse them their request--or argue them out of the idea, right?....what gives YOu that right to tellpepple what to do,

You asked how we would respond to this family. We have been discussing some of the steps I would follow if I was investigating this event. Now you want to know what gives me the right to tell these people what to do. ? They can do whatever they want. They can use astrology and a crystal ball if they want to. The results may be as helpful as hypnotherapy.

You are against them seeing a doctor. Yes much better advice...

cause YOU have this prejudice against the possible benefits of hypnotherapy

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word prejudice duendy. My opinions on hypnotherapy are not irrational or preconcieved without knowledge.

OK. say they agree and go along for your tests, which are blood tests, testing for rehypnol type drugs spontaneously happening in mum gran and two young boys simultanously which causes them all to see a spherical light object in the air wich they feeld deeply ttractedto, and havei forgot anything? a bain scan no doubt?
NOW---at the end of all that medical examination, and nothing untoward is found, wrong with teir blood, brain, etc. what ten?ho has those tests found out about what happened in the missing time they had. EVENTSthat happened IN themissing time? which is THE thing they want to kow in relation to seeing the UFO etc.

Let me reiterate duendy that all these tests aren't just to prove that these people are insane, drug affected, brain damage ect. They may also confirm your alien beliefs.

I know why they had hypnotherapy. I am saying I would advise against it because it creating false memories would make things worse.

so....bottomline. in actual real life mum DIDhave hynoterapy and exprienced an abduction experence.

Well we don't know that she was abducted. Thats the problem. The only evidence we have is testimony and hypnotherapy. Two things that are unreliable. I have been suggesting ways to get other evidence and you are against them!

but you will not respect her experience will you?
why not?.......

You still trying to paint me as the evil sceptic that insults families. I have shown 'respect' for this family. I do not put weight in hypnotherapy and I have already explained this.

you have speant a lo o time post after post raving aganst hypnotherapy. so nows yer chance to thoroughly try convince me of its total uselessness. go on........

I have not said hypnotherapy was totally useless and you know this! In relation to cases like these and satanic ritual abuse it can make things a lot worse.

The first time I heard about false memories was an article where a group of peple who had never had an experience with ufos were hypnotised and asked about abductions that they may have had. While hypnotised most of the group had a very detailed story about getting abducted. All of them were similar - greys, light, helplessness ect. You don't need to have been abducted to be able to describe the experience under hypnosis. A mixture of popular culture and common fears in the human mind could explain the similarities. This little story does not prove anything of course and will not convince you but it what first opened my eyes.

What would convince you? I can post a couple of links.

As I mentioned a few pages ago the satanic ritual abuse fear in the 80s is a good example of false memories.

 

[duendy]

After this..
You asked how we would respond to this family. We have been discussing some of the steps I would follow if I was investigating this event. Now you want to know what gives me the right to tell these people what to do. ? They can do whatever they want. They can use astrology and a crystal ball if they want to. The results may be as helpful as hypnotherapy.

me)))so you believe. andone could say that wit tat attitude YOUwould be lading the family, like you judge ALL hypnotherapists to do.

You are against them seeing a doctor. Yes much better advice...

me)))i am notagainst the seeing a doctor I F that is what they CHOOSE to do! hope th is is clear?

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word prejudice duendy. My opinions on hypnotherapy are not irrational or preconcieved without knowledge.

me))well that is what i, we' is waiting for. substantial proof from you that A L L hypnotherapy is totally useless for helping people relive lost time. At themoment I dont see anything but your words for it, and that aint enough! For exmple, what are our qualifications for claiming this?

Let me reiterate duendy that all these tests aren't just to prove that these people are insane, drug affected, brain damage ect. They may also confirm your alien beliefs.

me)))))How so?And can you name me any occasions when people who claim to have had missing time, seen UFOS etc, have been able to remember what HAPPENED in that missing time other than from hypnoterapeutic help. I'd be really interested to know. with proper sources,not just your say so of course.

I know why they had hypnotherapy. I am saying I would advise against it because it creating false memories would make things worse.

me))so now you contradict what you claimed earlier. where you said: 'they can do whatever they want'.....?

Well we don't know that she was abducted. Thats the problem. The only evidence we have is testimony and hypnotherapy. Two things that are unreliable. I have been suggesting ways to get other evidence and you are against them!
You still trying to paint me as the evil sceptic that insults families. I have shown 'respect' for this family. I do not put weight in hypnotherapy and I have already explained this.

me))you dont even know your own MIND dude. one minute you say one ting another minute cange. i wouldn't like you 'helping' ME if i was all vulnerable and distressed about what they went through!

I have not said hypnotherapy was totally useless and you know this! In relation to cases like these and satanic ritual abuse it can make things a lot worse.

me))satanic abuse false memories, i agree completely. But are we to paint ALL hyynotherapy with that same brush which happened a fair bit ago? THis is what i am wanting to explore.
You are claiming, i feel,that ALL of reported abduction cases are a result of similar event as the satanic abuse phenomena---do you/can you foreward a good summarizing source for that event...?
See the dfference i am seeing is......that tat event was the typcial witchhunt scenario. whilst with most abduction cases--supposed--we have PRELIMIary similar patterns ofte seeing of a UFO, and altered states of feeling which ARE remembered and THEn time missing? get me?

The first time I heard about false memories was an article where a group of peple who had never had an experience with ufos were hypnotised and asked about abductions that they may have had. While hypnotised most of the group had a very detailed story about getting abducted. All of them were similar - greys, light, helplessness ect. You don't need to have been abducted to be able to describe the experience under hypnosis. A mixture of popular culture and common fears in the human mind could explain the similarities. This little story does not prove anything of course and will not convince you but it what first opened my eyes.

me)))fine. good story. but ALL it remains at the moment is some of your unsubtanitated words. IT IS IMPORTANT YOU FIND THE SOURCE(S) so i can look at it properly!

What would convince you? I can post a couple of links.

me))))obviously. how can i just take your testimony for it??....hehe

As I mentioned a few pages ago the satanic ritual abuse fear in the 80s is a good example of false memories.

like i said yeah. BUT we have to look at the scenario of it in comparison with te 'abduction' scenario.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

CC.....i havehad it with you dude. i dont mean you any harm or whatever, but you are impossible to discuss with. you do not seem to understand most of what i mean, and just keep coming back wit yet more contraditions to what i am trying to say. no doubt you feel same about me...hehe

No problem and I don't wouldn't take anyone's frustration personally . Unless I explicitly state "I don't understand", I do understand any assertions being made and the contradictions don't come from me personally. I'm simply applying known evidence and good thought processs to the information and that results in contradiction... I simply show the results.

I see differences in our technical knowledge as well as thought processes and that likely prevents both of us from accepting and sometimes understanding each others assertions.

so. what i mean is. this couod go on ad nauseum. so---the famous: 'we must agree to differ', is in order, and allow po Giambiassta to get his thread back!

Sure we can agree to differ and jump back on the Giambiassta bandwagon. I wasn't trying to drive any agreement with this conversation though... the 3-4 we achieved (which was quite surprising based on previous expereicne) was incidental. What I hope you have taken away from this conversation is a little more knowledge and little less sterotype.

 

[shaman_]

me)))so you believe. andone could say that wit tat attitude YOUwould be lading the family, like you judge ALL hypnotherapists to do

Leading the family? How am I leading the family? You are still just trying to make me the evil, bad guy no matter what. I am discussing how I would investigate the event. Well I was two pages ago. Now I just seem to be repeating myself.

I have not made any judgment on hypnotherapists. The process of hypnotherapy for recovering these memroies is the problem.

me)))i am notagainst the seeing a doctor I F that is what they CHOOSE to do! hope th is is clear?

You were clearly against the idea of them seeing a doctor.

me))well that is what i, we' is waiting for. substantial proof from you that A L L hypnotherapy is totally useless for helping people relive lost time. At themoment I dont see anything but your words for it, and that aint enough! For exmple, what are our qualifications for claiming this?

Now I can't have an opinion on something until I have qualifications. hmm.

me)))))How so?And can you name me any occasions when people who claim to have had missing time, seen UFOS etc, have been able to remember what HAPPENED in that missing time other than from hypnoterapeutic help. I'd be really interested to know. with proper sources,not just your say so of course.

You want evidence again? Are you really asking for evidence are just saying that so you don't have to think and can keep playing the wherezevidence game?

If the only way to retain memories of space aliens is hypnotherapy that doesn't therefore prove that hypnotherapy is credible in the case of abductions.

me))so now you contradict what you claimed earlier. where you said: 'they can do whatever they want'.....?

There is no contradiction here. I would not stop them doing anything but I would advise against it.

me))you dont even know your own MIND dude. one minute you say one ting another minute cange. i wouldn't like you 'helping' ME if i was all vulnerable and distressed about what they went through!

Your inability to understand simple things is not my fault.

me))satanic abuse false memories, i agree completely. But are we to paint ALL hyynotherapy with that same brush which happened a fair bit ago? THis is what i am wanting to explore.
You are claiming, i feel,that ALL of reported abduction cases are a result of similar event as the satanic abuse phenomena---do you/can you foreward a good summarizing source for that event...?

Do be stupid. I am claiming that hypnotherapy is unreliable and dangerous for situations such as these. Leave the straw men alone.

You asked for evidence again. ding.

See the dfference i am seeing is......that tat event was the typcial witchhunt scenario. whilst with most abduction cases--supposed--we have PRELIMIary similar patterns ofte seeing of a UFO, and altered states of feeling which ARE remembered and THEn time missing? get me?

That people have reported seeing ufos does not add credibility to hypnotherapy in these cases. If the memories are false then it does not matter what triggered them to get the hypnotherapy.

This site is concise.
http://www.fmsfonline.org/