Prayer Works -- a praise report for my Christian Brethren
- Thread starter Woody
- Start date
Raithere says: I mean, what exactly did God do for you in this circumstance; write you a letter of recommendation?
Woody says: It's not what you know, it's who you know. I know numero UNO.
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S/L: It's apparently good luck if a pigeon shits on you.
Woody says: see what I mean about sour grapes?
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Stretched says: I think I can see the face of Jesus in this piece of toast I done burnt!
Woody says: see what I mean about sour grapes?
When God pours out a blessing, atheists just sing the blues and complain like a disease.
Woody says: It's not what you know, it's who you know. I know numero UNO.
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S/L: It's apparently good luck if a pigeon shits on you.
Woody says: see what I mean about sour grapes?
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Stretched says: I think I can see the face of Jesus in this piece of toast I done burnt!
Woody says: see what I mean about sour grapes?
When God pours out a blessing, atheists just sing the blues and complain like a disease.
Grapes? What?
It is apparently good luck for a pigeon to shit on you. Where do grapes come into the discussion?
I submit that you just can't debate the issue properly so instead leave one sentence inanities in the hopes that nobody will question it further.
You have said "prayer works" based upon you being lucky enough to get a job, (while neglecting that you lost your last one and probably prayed all through that aswell). As a result I questioned the statistics and pointed out an alternate "good luck charm" that can and has provided jobs, lottery wins and true love.
Even pigeon poop is just as likely to get you a job as prayer is. Even Mystic Meg with her £29.99 crystal ball can do the same, as can a paragraph of text in a newspaper to a Pisces.
Of course as I mentioned, it's working the odds - and you never hear about all those times that failed. How many times have you prayed in your life Woody, and out of that amount how many times was god not at home, or not taking calls? So you get a job after months or years on benefits and call it a good thing. It is a good thing, as is learning to play a bongo drum - but you cannot instantly claim that "prayer works" on the basis of one good turnout out of ten million.
And the absolute best you can manage after many forum posters go to length to discuss your claims is to type 7 useless words?
Of course you don't want to hear it. You want to go through your life with the shades pulled down - and that is your right. But then I would simply question why you bother coming on to a discussion forum in the first place.
When a forum user makes a post Woody can't bear to face upto, he just goes a bit twisted in the noodle and starts talking about fruit.
SnakeLord: "I submit that you just can't debate the issue properly so instead leave one sentence inanities in the hopes that nobody will question it further."
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M*W: Yeah, Woody thought bringing up 'grapes' would throw an intelligent person off topic.
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SnakeLord: "You have said "prayer works" based upon you being lucky enough to get a job, (while neglecting that you lost your last one and probably prayed all through that aswell). As a result I questioned the statistics and pointed out an alternate "good luck charm" that can and has provided jobs, lottery wins and true love."
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M*W: Woody's new job miracle is quite fascinating, especially since Woody made a comment recently stating that he 'must be the only one holding down a job on this forum,' or referenced something to that effect. I would call that a Freudian Slip. What Woody doesn't understand is the power of his own mind -- the power of persuasion -- creative visualization, as it were. We are never 'given' anything by any creator god, otherwise, I believe we would come to this world fully accompanied by everything we need. Sorry, Woody, your god doesn't exist anywhere but in your own delusional mind. So, if you believe you received this new job opportunity from an timeless and imageless creator being, then you will surely take a great fall when you fuck up and get your ass fired because 'you' had nothing to do with this miracle. I think it was Erich Segal who said, "we are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true." "Thoughts are wings." The desire starts in the mind, otherwise we wouldn't have such thoughts or boundaries to accomplishing your desire.
I do have a question for you, Woody, you have stated in your miracle post that your prayer buddies also prayed for your new apartment and your desire to acquire the knowledge of music. Now, let me see here! You claimed to be a degreed engineer with all kinds of certificates you've worked hard for. I know a lot of engineers. My city of more than 4-5 million people working in the petrochemical and other industries, not one of them live in an apartment! But, hey, if you consider moving into an apartment, especially at your age, I'm happy for you. All I can say is, that if there was a god in heaven, no one would have to live in a cheesy apartment! So, either you're lying, or there is no god!
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SnakeLord: Of course as I mentioned, it's working the odds - and you never hear about all those times that failed. How many times have you prayed in your life Woody, and out of that amount how many times was god not at home, or not taking calls? So you get a job after months or years on benefits and call it a good thing. It is a good thing, as is learning to play a bongo drum - but you cannot instantly claim that "prayer works" on the basis of one good turnout out of ten million.
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M*W: I will not minimize the 'power' of positive thinking, so in essence, your 'brethren' enhanced your wishful thinking that you claim to be a miracle. Hey, you can call it whatever you want to call it -- it's your goddamned miracle. I've had my fair share of miracles in my life, too, but I know exactly where they came from, and they were appreciated just as much if a god had miraculously sent them.
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SnakeLord: Of course you don't want to hear it. You want to go through your life with the shades pulled down - and that is your right. But then I would simply question why you bother coming on to a discussion forum in the first place.
When a forum user makes a post Woody can't bear to face upto, he just goes a bit twisted in the noodle and starts talking about fruit.
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M*W: I've noticed that, but I am still suspect about Woody's 'need' to be on a Religion Forum. Surely, there are tons of xian sites he would be more comfortable in. I think Woody's presence on this forum is to 'prove' to his own egotistical self how 'holier than thou' he is, but sorry, it just doesn't work.
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M*W: Yeah, Woody thought bringing up 'grapes' would throw an intelligent person off topic.
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SnakeLord: "You have said "prayer works" based upon you being lucky enough to get a job, (while neglecting that you lost your last one and probably prayed all through that aswell). As a result I questioned the statistics and pointed out an alternate "good luck charm" that can and has provided jobs, lottery wins and true love."
*************
M*W: Woody's new job miracle is quite fascinating, especially since Woody made a comment recently stating that he 'must be the only one holding down a job on this forum,' or referenced something to that effect. I would call that a Freudian Slip. What Woody doesn't understand is the power of his own mind -- the power of persuasion -- creative visualization, as it were. We are never 'given' anything by any creator god, otherwise, I believe we would come to this world fully accompanied by everything we need. Sorry, Woody, your god doesn't exist anywhere but in your own delusional mind. So, if you believe you received this new job opportunity from an timeless and imageless creator being, then you will surely take a great fall when you fuck up and get your ass fired because 'you' had nothing to do with this miracle. I think it was Erich Segal who said, "we are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true." "Thoughts are wings." The desire starts in the mind, otherwise we wouldn't have such thoughts or boundaries to accomplishing your desire.
I do have a question for you, Woody, you have stated in your miracle post that your prayer buddies also prayed for your new apartment and your desire to acquire the knowledge of music. Now, let me see here! You claimed to be a degreed engineer with all kinds of certificates you've worked hard for. I know a lot of engineers. My city of more than 4-5 million people working in the petrochemical and other industries, not one of them live in an apartment! But, hey, if you consider moving into an apartment, especially at your age, I'm happy for you. All I can say is, that if there was a god in heaven, no one would have to live in a cheesy apartment! So, either you're lying, or there is no god!
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SnakeLord: Of course as I mentioned, it's working the odds - and you never hear about all those times that failed. How many times have you prayed in your life Woody, and out of that amount how many times was god not at home, or not taking calls? So you get a job after months or years on benefits and call it a good thing. It is a good thing, as is learning to play a bongo drum - but you cannot instantly claim that "prayer works" on the basis of one good turnout out of ten million.
*************
M*W: I will not minimize the 'power' of positive thinking, so in essence, your 'brethren' enhanced your wishful thinking that you claim to be a miracle. Hey, you can call it whatever you want to call it -- it's your goddamned miracle. I've had my fair share of miracles in my life, too, but I know exactly where they came from, and they were appreciated just as much if a god had miraculously sent them.
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SnakeLord: Of course you don't want to hear it. You want to go through your life with the shades pulled down - and that is your right. But then I would simply question why you bother coming on to a discussion forum in the first place.
When a forum user makes a post Woody can't bear to face upto, he just goes a bit twisted in the noodle and starts talking about fruit.
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M*W: I've noticed that, but I am still suspect about Woody's 'need' to be on a Religion Forum. Surely, there are tons of xian sites he would be more comfortable in. I think Woody's presence on this forum is to 'prove' to his own egotistical self how 'holier than thou' he is, but sorry, it just doesn't work.
The Fox and the Grapes
A famished fox crept into a vineyard where ripe, luscious grapes were draped high upon arbors in a most tempting display. In his effort to win a juicy prize, the fox jumped and sprang many times but failed in all his attempts. When he finally had to admit defeat, he retreated and muttered to himself, "Well, what does it matter anyway? The grapes are sour!"
It is easy to despise what you cannot get.
From: Aesop's Fables. Penguin Popular Classics, 1996.
A famished fox crept into a vineyard where ripe, luscious grapes were draped high upon arbors in a most tempting display. In his effort to win a juicy prize, the fox jumped and sprang many times but failed in all his attempts. When he finally had to admit defeat, he retreated and muttered to himself, "Well, what does it matter anyway? The grapes are sour!"
It is easy to despise what you cannot get.
From: Aesop's Fables. Penguin Popular Classics, 1996.
Congrats Woody. I hope it all works out well for you. My sister was just on a mission trip to South Africa where they were praying for people in the slums and one guy they met and prayed for was 100% blind and after they prayed for him he could see again.(this is not probability or the law of numbers) This too will be discounted by atheists because they don't have 1st hand knowledge or weren't there to see it happen, but these would be the same people that generally don't go to places where these miracles take place.
water: It is easy to despise what you cannot get.
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M*W: Speak for yourself, water. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, mailed the postcard. I allowed the delusions of xianity to be programmed in my mind, but truth always prevails. Truth is a lot easier to love and to understand than any delusional religious addictions. I once proclaimed xianity, but I rejected it when its lies became clear.
Speak for yourself, water. You're still chasing your own tail.
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M*W: Speak for yourself, water. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, mailed the postcard. I allowed the delusions of xianity to be programmed in my mind, but truth always prevails. Truth is a lot easier to love and to understand than any delusional religious addictions. I once proclaimed xianity, but I rejected it when its lies became clear.
Speak for yourself, water. You're still chasing your own tail.
Yay!!
And now that lord himself has blessed Woody with a job, he’s free to roam through his cubicle and work up chronic anxiety and a mortgage.
He’ll spend less time at home and decay cell by cell in his latest compulsion to win a race with no end, he’ll be no more interesting or fulfilled than a cage full of gerbils but at least he’s got God on his side!
A hundred people prayed with Woody for this job that will eat him day by day like a mealworm and a hundred more will be there in a decade to pray for his miserable arteries corroded by the stress and avarice of assuming someone else has The Answer.
Do you even know why you pray for a job? You don’t pray to flip burgers but would for a 9-5 with a label.
So praise the lord that GOD granted Woody the chance at being the freshest face at the water cooler, he’s just shaved off a dozen years from your life, Woody.
And every one like Woody, and that's alot of Christians.
Which mean less of people like you, and more like me left over to die appropriately with.
And now that lord himself has blessed Woody with a job, he’s free to roam through his cubicle and work up chronic anxiety and a mortgage.
He’ll spend less time at home and decay cell by cell in his latest compulsion to win a race with no end, he’ll be no more interesting or fulfilled than a cage full of gerbils but at least he’s got God on his side!
A hundred people prayed with Woody for this job that will eat him day by day like a mealworm and a hundred more will be there in a decade to pray for his miserable arteries corroded by the stress and avarice of assuming someone else has The Answer.
Do you even know why you pray for a job? You don’t pray to flip burgers but would for a 9-5 with a label.
So praise the lord that GOD granted Woody the chance at being the freshest face at the water cooler, he’s just shaved off a dozen years from your life, Woody.
And every one like Woody, and that's alot of Christians.
Which mean less of people like you, and more like me left over to die appropriately with.
It doesn't matter whether you see it first-hand or not. The issue is whether or not prayer has anything to do with woody getting a job or the blind man being able to see again. If prayer worked there would be some statistical evidence for it. That is, people who were prayed for would be more likely to get jobs or become healthy than people who are not prayed for. Unfortunately for the believers there isn't any evidence that indicates prayer has any discernable effect. People who pray are no more likely to find jobs or regain their sight than anyone else once you adjust for a placebo effect.Quigly said:
~Raithere
Quigly:
Like you for example.
Would you even recognize a rebuttal as one or quote me some scripture and then pity me with a prayer for being a gentile?
But no, we’re not talking about you and the blind man your sister cured in Africa when she went slumming – we’re talking about Woody.
That’s woody with capital W and a Phd at the end of his name, shows up to his engineering job the first day only to sit at his desk and sip coffee.
Bet you he’s spent years learning his trig and calc and I triple dog bet you he can’t derive functions anymore, he’s forgotten.
Speaking of slumming-
Feast your eyes
9 in 10 of the top ten list of nations ranking highest in AIDS are African countries.
Your God cured the blind man. Yet 24 million out of the 40 million or so that have AIDS globally are in Africa.
Yet God or En Sof or what have you is held up balancing Woody's checkbook?
The fuck?
You caught me on a bad day. All dentists should be shot.
How does one rebut a butthead?
Like you for example.
Would you even recognize a rebuttal as one or quote me some scripture and then pity me with a prayer for being a gentile?
But no, we’re not talking about you and the blind man your sister cured in Africa when she went slumming – we’re talking about Woody.
That’s woody with capital W and a Phd at the end of his name, shows up to his engineering job the first day only to sit at his desk and sip coffee.
Bet you he’s spent years learning his trig and calc and I triple dog bet you he can’t derive functions anymore, he’s forgotten.
Speaking of slumming-
(Your sister wears eco-friendly tampons, third bet)
Feast your eyes
9 in 10 of the top ten list of nations ranking highest in AIDS are African countries.
Your God cured the blind man. Yet 24 million out of the 40 million or so that have AIDS globally are in Africa.
Yet God or En Sof or what have you is held up balancing Woody's checkbook?
The fuck?
You caught me on a bad day. All dentists should be shot.
Congratulations on getting the job, Woody!
I wonder about the other candidates, do you think they prayed to get that job, too?
Most likely, some of them did - do you have an answer as to why your god did not answer their prayers?
Could it be that you were simply the best candidate?
Perhaps your employer is an atheist - does that make a difference?
I wonder about the other candidates, do you think they prayed to get that job, too?
Most likely, some of them did - do you have an answer as to why your god did not answer their prayers?
Could it be that you were simply the best candidate?
Perhaps your employer is an atheist - does that make a difference?
google search=evidence+prayer+works
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...l&biw=906&q=evidence+prayer+works&btnG=Search
I'm not 100% convinced, due to similar reservations as those expressed in Gendanken's post on africa, and other points stated here about "competitive" prayer, however there is ample evidence that prayer does something. This doesn't prove anything specific about God, Christianity, or any particular religion, but it is not valid to state that there is no evidence at all. Say it is inconclusive, if you wish.
If all the people in the world who attest to being "religious" were to pray for the african aids crisis every day, there would be a positive effect. This is a completely rational hypothesis, which proves nothing about religion, but does say something about compassion.
"Hotel Rwanda", by the way, is a very powerful film about lack of compassion, and its effects, among other things.
p.s. Totally Gendanken - like, hi, or whatever, you know
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...l&biw=906&q=evidence+prayer+works&btnG=Search
I'm not 100% convinced, due to similar reservations as those expressed in Gendanken's post on africa, and other points stated here about "competitive" prayer, however there is ample evidence that prayer does something. This doesn't prove anything specific about God, Christianity, or any particular religion, but it is not valid to state that there is no evidence at all. Say it is inconclusive, if you wish.
If all the people in the world who attest to being "religious" were to pray for the african aids crisis every day, there would be a positive effect. This is a completely rational hypothesis, which proves nothing about religion, but does say something about compassion.
"Hotel Rwanda", by the way, is a very powerful film about lack of compassion, and its effects, among other things.
p.s. Totally Gendanken - like, hi, or whatever, you know
water says: The Fox and the Grapes... It is easy to despise what you cannot get.
Woody says: *Tee *Hee
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Quigly says: Congrats Woody. I hope it all works out well for you. My sister was just on a mission trip to South Africa where they were praying for people in the slums and one guy they met and prayed for was 100% blind and after they prayed for him he could see again.
Woody says: I believe the Lord still performs miracles. Your story makes an atheist cry, no doubt.
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Quigly says: Gend, what the hell you talking about? thats not a rebuttal, I want to know what the hell.
Woody says: I didn't mean to break poor Gend's heart with the Lord's generous blessing. He gave me a good living to support my family with, and medical insurance instead of leaving me stranded in the temporary job market, where I have aged prematurely from the stress and strain of constantly relocating.
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Woody says: *Tee *Hee
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Quigly says: Congrats Woody. I hope it all works out well for you. My sister was just on a mission trip to South Africa where they were praying for people in the slums and one guy they met and prayed for was 100% blind and after they prayed for him he could see again.
Woody says: I believe the Lord still performs miracles. Your story makes an atheist cry, no doubt.
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Quigly says: Gend, what the hell you talking about? thats not a rebuttal, I want to know what the hell.
Woody says: I didn't mean to break poor Gend's heart with the Lord's generous blessing. He gave me a good living to support my family with, and medical insurance instead of leaving me stranded in the temporary job market, where I have aged prematurely from the stress and strain of constantly relocating.
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there is ample evidence that prayer does something
Examples, please?
If all the people in the world who attest to being "religious" were to pray for the african aids crisis every day, there would be a positive effect.
Really? As opposed to the righteous getting up off their knees and actually doing something about the aids crisis in Africa?
Examples, please?
If all the people in the world who attest to being "religious" were to pray for the african aids crisis every day, there would be a positive effect.
Really? As opposed to the righteous getting up off their knees and actually doing something about the aids crisis in Africa?
You're "prayer" result is nothing more than a fallacy of enumeration of favorable circumstances. You apply significance to the "hits" without consideration of the "misses." How many prayers of even the most pious christians go completely unanswered? How many of your own have gone unanswered?