Perfectly evil God

What I dont understand is why we dont nail folk to a cross anymore.
Its obviously the Christians fault, they have had it banned so it now stands out and only associated with Jesus.
. God is Jesus. The father is the son. Is that clear? He's also the Holy Ghost by the way.
Another marketing trick... Buy one get another two free... I give it to them it is value for money really.
God had to kill himself to atone for the sins that he created.
I would have done the same myself, well probably not I tend to focus on others rather then try to hog the main stage.
Its sortta bragging in my view.
Now you get it, right?
I think I get it.... Its all made up.

Alex
 
You are just not logical Alex. Let me explain.

691ba7b1561b65cdd036d6b45a3115eb.jpg


Now you get it, right?
:)
 
I simply wanted you to see the evidence for yourself in your bible. The evidence thatthe author made stuff up Jan its there for all to see, in black and white, set out for anyone to look at direct evidence that its made up.

I'm you'll have to point it out, as I have no idea what you're refering to.

Its up to you to read the bible and not up to me to try and force you.

Don't worry about it, just show your so called evidence.

When I first found out much of Jesus words were not written down until many years after I was very disappointed, almost betrayed because I could only think how what was said could have been corrupted or even made up. I expected to find that someone close who heard his words had recorded them and of course they had not.

Is that your evidence that there made up cosmology in the Bible?

Well I can see why I have a problem because I have been under the impression words convey meaning such that one could get the message.

I can see the problem.

So I send a telegram "buy bhp shares at $10" to my stock broker and he reads that and buys me a race horse and at the trial where I sue him for negligence he pleads along your logic I doubt if the learned jugde would say he has any defence what so ever.

I would tend to go with the judge on that one.

So it is entirely unreasonable that you claim words do not convey a message. I can only think you are joking Jan. You are winding me up.

The message has to be received and understood in order to make sense of it.

Have you ever played that party game where a message is passed from one person to another so it goes thru say ten guests. The message passed on is compared to the original message and everyone gets a huge laugh out of the extreme difference between the two.

You mean Chinese Whispers? Yes.
If the message is passed on clearly, so that everyone can clearly hear what is being said, there's no reason why the word or phrase would change.

Yet you suggest such a game played over many many years is reliable. May I suggest that you maybe wrong.

You can suggest what you like, but you still need to show where there is made up cosmology in the Bible. It's a simple request.

But you say read the words that may be Jesus speaking and get a message that is hidden unless you have faith that it supports whatever you can to invent. Too wishy washy Jan.

Be that as you perceive it to be, but..

It matters because we have no way to establish the words came from Jesus.

What does that have to do with the message?

That matters Jan it matters to me and it would matter to many theists if they knew the truth.

What is the ''truth''?

You may find this strange but I follow many of the teachings attributed to Jesus and it does not sit well that I probably follow something made up by another.

Could it be you know that God exists, but deny it?

I may as well say I have a certain philosophy but I really honestly dont know who invented it.
And as an athiest I show more concern than you do Jan.. Is that not odd?


Could it be that it is innate?

On page one of the bible I see firm evidence of important matters being made up can you not understand there is reason for concern.

I don't, and I don't believe you do either.

This sort of thing makes a mockery of the whole thing and claiming it is faith that it is somehow makes it right and means whatever you want it to mean really is wrong.. Very wrong.

Is this lecture going somewhere?

Either show the evidence of don't. I won't ask again.

jan.
 
What I dont understand is why we dont nail folk to a cross anymore.
Its obviously the Christians fault, they have had it banned so it now stands out and only associated with Jesus.


Alex
I know, just as Hitler ruined the mustache the Christians ruined the cross.
 
you'll have to point it out, as I have no idea what you're refering to.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Don't worry about it, just show your so called evidence.
Again?
Is that your evidence that there made up cosmology in the Bible?
I spoke of my disappointment of matters in the new testament Jan not the made up stuff in the old testament. You really need to familiarise yourself with the bible. Get yourself a copy rather than rely upon me to quote parts to you, which you fail to address anyway.
I can see the problem.
I see we are both joking.
I would tend to go with the judge on that one.
Congratulations for arriving at an inescapable conclusion.
The message has to be received and understood in order to make sense of it.
It also helps that a message is not couched in symbolism to avoid misunderstanding which is why parrables was a poor choice of style for who ever it was who claimed to present the words of Jesus many many years after Jesus spoke whatever words that were alledged he spoke.
If the message is passed on clearly, so that everyone can clearly hear what is being said, there's no reason why the word or phrase would change.
Well one would reasonably expect such but unfortunately as the game illustrates a message becomes horribly corrupted as it is passed one to another.
We dont allow heresay evidence in our courts because it is well recognised that such evidence is always unreliable. It is most unfortunate that the alledged words of Jesus is heresay evidence at best, passed from one to another over many many years before someone decided to record the final version. It is such a pity we can never know what Jesus actually said and I sincerely mean that, but his words are forever lost and we have to rely on a second hand, third hand or more account recorded almost a century later.
You can suggest what you like, but you still need to show where there is made up cosmology in the Bible. It's a simple request.
Jan I know I have glossed over my claims but it is best that you get a copy of the bible and read it. Page one will surprise you and provide you will undeniable evidence of made up stuff.
Please take some time away from chatting on the net and read a bible. The bible is my authority that religion is just stuff made up by superstitious ancients.
What does that have to do with the message?
Everything Jan absolutely everything.

What is the ''truth''?

Facts that you find much too inconvenient to address or acknowledge.
Could it be you know that God exists, but deny it?

You wish.
Could it be that it is innate?
You wish.
I don't, and I don't believe you do either.
My conclusion was formed from reading it, did you read it after I pointed out that given the author was not present at the events he writes about I conclude he made up his story.
Is this lecture going somewhere?
Just because I have pointed out facts you find inconvenient Jan does not make my post a lecture. That is the responce one could expect from a child when you point out that drinking and driving causes deaths on the road. Lecture indeed. I have been purposely light hearted and you cry lecture... Jan think how such a cry errodes your high standing here.
Either show the evidence of don't. I won't ask again.
Why say that when you know you will.
I show you evidence you ignore it and ask again for evidence.
You seem not to be interested in finding the truth which you can find in a bible if you had one or read one, Jan I could tattoo evidence on your forehead but you would refuse to look in the mirror.

May I take this opportunity to wish you all the best for Christmas Jan.
And may I also wish Jesus a happy birthday, so many people forget that is what Christmas is about.
Alex
 
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So, God sets this standard, and the standard is good. But God is not good.

God IS the standard?

So God could decide that hurting people was the Standard, and if he did then we'd all think that was Good.

Why would God hurt people?
We're pretty capable of hurting ourselves.

It may well be axiomatic that people (human beings) think that torture and killing is evil, but we're talking about God here.

Are you?

Why does God set this Standard that torture and killing are evil, and yet not have an opinion on the matter himself? That's what I don't understand.

Then don't keep going back to this nonsensical notion you have about God.
Go and read scriptures if you wñt to kñôw about God's nature, tĥen come back and discuss what you've learned.

Sounds reasonable? :)

jan.
 
God IS the standard?
Is God a being, or an abstraction?

Why would God hurt people?
We're pretty capable of hurting ourselves.
If God is evil, then I guess God likes seeing people suffer.

Why wouldn't God hurt people? Can you give me any reason?

Then don't keep going back to this nonsensical notion you have about God.
What nonsensical notion?

Go and read scriptures if you wñt to kñôw about God's nature, tĥen come back and discuss what you've learned.
Ok. Let's consider the bible and what it tells us that Jesus said, for example.

Jesus said God is good. That God is the Father who cares for all people. And so on and so forth.

But maybe Jesus just had an incorrect human perception of God. What do you think?
 
God might be an abstraction but baby Jesus was a baby. Baby Jesus is the popular one kind of like young Elvis.
 
Is God a being, or an abstraction?

This verse from Bg may answer your question...

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself.

If God is evil, then I guess God likes seeing people suffer.

Why wouldn't God hurt people? Can you give me any reason?

There's no need to.

What nonsensical notion?

''Why does God set this Standard that torture and killing are evil
...''

What does it mean?

k. Let's consider the bible and what it tells us that Jesus said, for example.

Jesus said God is good. That God is the Father who cares for all people. And so on and so forth.

But maybe Jesus just had an incorrect human perception of God. What do you think?

Actually Jesus said...

Luke 18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit life?"
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good - except God alone."

IOW God is the standard.

jan.
 
This verse from Bg may answer your question...

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself.
Nup. Doesn't seem relevant to what I asked.

There's no need to.
That's a "no" then.

''Why does God set this Standard that torture and killing are evil...''

What does it mean?
I asked you.

Actually Jesus said...

Luke 18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit life?"
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good - except God alone."
In other words, Jesus said God is good.

Was Jesus wrong, Jan?
 
While we're quoting scriptural verses, here are just a few that suggest to me that God might be good:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8:28&version=ESV
Romans 8:28 ESV

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Psalm 145:9 ESV
The Lord is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made.

Psalm 107:1 ESV
Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever!

James 1:17 ESV
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Genesis 1:31 ESV
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Matthew 5:9-10 ESV
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


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But I guess the bible is mistaken, or these are just human perceptions.
 
No need for it to end. Another similar would/will just pop up. Do you prefer the older Elvis?

I think both old and young Elvis were legendary. What he lacked in dance moves as a youngster, he made up for it with his trademark stances.

jan.
 
The perfect or flawless evil god is a master of manipulation of the populace .

Which is evident in what we see happening around us .
 
Nup. Doesn't seem relevant to what I asked.

Fair enough.

That's a "no" then.

I mean there's no need for God to hurt people anymore than we need to ship ice to the north pole, sand to the Sahara, or mini skirted beauties to any English city at the weekend.

I asked you.

We'll have to pass on this one.

In other words, Jesus said God is good.

Was Jesus wrong, Jan?

Nope. God is the standard, as he so rightly stated.

jan.
 
I think both old and young Elvis were legendary. What he lacked in dance moves as a youngster, he made up for it with his trademark stances.

jan.
That's how I feel about the baby Jesus. He lacked the gravitas of the older Jesus but there was a certain joie de vivre that was lacking in the more world weary Jesus.
 
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