Why do did I need to find my Bible for you to write what you claim to know?
I simply wanted you to see the evidence for yourself in your bible. The evidence thatthe author made stuff up Jan its there for all to see, in black and white, set out for anyone to look at direct evidence that its made up.
Also as you are on Sciforums, you are on the internet, where you will find just about any Bible you care to mention.
Really I did not think of that, well I did and I copied a part for you to read but as you did not comment I assumed you missed seeing my post wherein I copied the first few words which established my case that that part was undeniably made up. I thought theneedle jumped and it was simply to right for you to face without a melt down.
Then I thought its best to let Jan find out from an own bible rather than me post line by line to confirm my position.
Its up to you to read the bible and not up to me to try and force you.
When I first found out much of Jesus words were not written down until many years after I was very disappointed, almost betrayed because I could only think how what was said could have been corrupted or even made up. I expected to find that someone close who heard his words had recorded them and of course they had not. Would not fly in a court and that must tell you something Jan.
You think because they are words, and words convey meanings, you can simply read the words and comprehend the intended message. It doesn't work like that.
Well I can see why I have a problem because I have been under the impression words convey meaning such that one could get the message.
So I send a telegram "buy bhp shares at $10" to my stock broker and he reads that and buys me a race horse and at the trial where I sue him for negligence he pleads along your logic I doubt if the learned jugde would say he has any defence what so ever.
So it is entirely unreasonable that you claim words do not convey a message. I can only think you are joking Jan. You are winding me up.
And how come it was so many years before anyone wrote down these parables... given the complexity you suggest in understanding can we be sure the message was passed on uncorrupted and not made up. The answer is we can't be sure in fact it would be most likely the original words were nothing like those eventually set out.
Of course we cannot be sure.
Have you ever played that party game where a message is passed from one person to another so it goes thru say ten guests. The message passed on is compared to the original message and everyone gets a huge laugh out of the extreme difference between the two.
Yet you suggest such a game played over many many years is reliable. May I suggest that you maybe wrong.
In a court evidence of what Jesus was supposed to have said would be thrown out on the basis it was heresay.
But you say read the words that may be Jesus speaking and get a message that is hidden unless you have faith that it supports whatever you can to invent. Too wishy washy Jan.
Jan seriously you are a very clever person can you not grasp the reasonable point I make.
I sincerely expect more from you.
I really do. Why do you disappoint me.
The message contained in the words themselves are a good enough reference.
Why does it matter how long after his passing, the words were written?
It matters because we have no way to establish the words came from Jesus.
That matters Jan it matters to me and it would matter to many theists if they knew the truth. But of course kids wont be taught such facts will they Jan.
. You may find this strange but I follow many of the teachings attributed to Jesus and it does not sit well that I probably follow something made up by another.
I may as well say I have a certain philosophy but I really honestly dont know who invented it.
And as an athiest I show more concern than you do Jan.. Is that not odd?
On page one of the bible I see firm evidence of important matters being made up can you not understand there is reason for concern.
Think of it this way each of us will playfully twist what the other has said to suit our cause and to throw each other off.. So someone takes your version of what I said and after dinner tells it as a story to someone else, who tells it to someone else who tells it to someone else, then many years later someone writes down the story he heard and outrageously says those were my words. Do you think what I actually said would have survived?
No Jan its not on.
This sort of thing makes a mockery of the whole thing and claiming it is faith that it is somehow makes it right and means whatever you want it to mean really is wrong.. Very wrong.
Alex