We have good evidence that all of the above exist. Sadly, the same cannot be said for ghosts, and that's where your entire faith-based construction fails.
Paranormal feelings
- Thread starter wegs
- Start date
How do you know there were ghosts?
Are you saying you saw some people and assumed they might be ghosts, but you're not sure?
What are you talking about? What was it that you didn't know what it was? What made you think it was like a poltergeist? What is a poltergeist like?
Were these things knocked over while people were looking at them? Was anybody else around at the time? How many witnesses observed one of these "knockings over" simultaneously?
How clumsy were the staff, in your estimation?
Which technical people were consulted about the sounds? What did the sounds sound like? Were the technical people professional sound consultants? Who heard the sounds? When did they hear them? Were there independent witnesses or just "reports", like the knockings over?
Did you see a young girl ghost running and crying in the hall? How many other people saw her? When was she seen? Was it bring your daughter to work day?
Tell us about how you "experienced" her. Include as many details as possible and tell us what investigation you did afterwards.
Which parts? What forms did these "hauntings" take? Did you see the "people" involved? Are these your experiences or second-hand "reports" from other people?
Did you take any time out during those few weeks to get a good photo or video of the ghost or ghosts, or to collect any other physical evidence?
Did you call the James Randi Foundation to claim your million dollar prize?
His Mum had a landline phone in her room, Magical Realist tells us. I am aware that, as the story goes, the call was received on the nurse's cell phone.
Well, lots of things may exist, hypothetically. The time to believe they exist, I would say, would be when there's good evidence for their existence. That's why I don't currently believe they exist. What about you?
I think you're putting the cart before the horse to some extent. Step 1 would be to establish that ghosts exist. Once we've established that, with a reasonable level of confidence, then maybe we can start investigating their capabilities. Maybe we can convince one of them to participate in some lab tests under controlled, scientific conditions.
Casper was friendly, not happy. He was, in fact, deeply troubled by the unfortunate circumstances of his premature demise.
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I don't know about that. A ghost that will "romp and play, sing and dance all day" doesn't seem that deeply troubled.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
reference in terms debate concept
non physical human conceptual based existence in some type of quasi anthropomorphic perceptive reality
what is in a name etc ...
maybe you wish to refine your question
more than happy to engage in discussion
however your tone becomes somewhat oppressively badgering to be a demand for me to repeat myself in different terms
without you requesting better explanation
your own frustration clearly showing here
thats ok
but i suggest you pose a question rather than a demand without you entering your own position of intellect
electricians, sound engineers, electronics technicians, electrical engineers, computer engineers, building engineers.
all off the record obviously
no body wants to professional engage in ghost talk
its counter productive to business
items knocked over where technical surveillance was in place and nothing had been registered on infrared motion sensors or any building sensor alarms
it was a common occurrence
probably still is
i personally heard things fall over and went to have a look to find no signs of people
my gues was items that had been placed on a edge and general ground vibration eventually making them fall over
but there was no definitive proof
many people reported the same thing but none would talk openly about it.
my experiences going over several years and many other peoples experiences
roughly 10 different people off hand
there was and likely still is insider knowledge and it is not shared with other people
they dont need to know
but people are warned
some freak out and have panic attacks and leave and never come back
some dont mind
others find some way to cope in varying forms
your aggressive tone(and/or my perception of one) is annoying me(nothing personal)
im going to leave it there
but then again
maybe it is personal
i have no desire to obtain scientific evidence or to give or provide any to other people
that is your ego talking and running away with you
you have become lost in your desire to inflict ego damage so you have swung away from the science and decided to engage in subtle emotional attack
sad !
maybe your having a bad day
or feeling the need to play out some type of territorial drama (no body is perfect)
im not interested in the thread any more
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RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
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Are you saying that just because some people don't understand those things, that therefore they are equivalent to anything else people don't understand?
That's the classic argument from incredulity - "since I don't understand X it is not true." (Or in this case, is as untrue as something else that is untrue.) That argument simply doesn't work. Lots of people don't understand how an airplane weighing hundreds of thousands of pounds can be held up by air. But that doesn't mean that no one understands it, or that airplanes don't fly.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
No I'm arguing against that. That just because we don't understand how something happens, doesn't mean it didn't happen. There's lots of things we don't understand about reality. But that doesn't mean those things aren't real or don't happen.
I agree with that ^
Science is limited and can’t provide answers for all things, but this doesn’t mean we leap to believing that anything is possible simply because we can’t explain it using science.
For those who are perpetual skeptics - is it illogical to be open minded about paranormal activity (you fear being viewed as illogical?) or does something else drive your skepticism?
Science is limited and can’t provide answers for all things, but this doesn’t mean we leap to believing that anything is possible simply because we can’t explain it using science.
For those who are perpetual skeptics - is it illogical to be open minded about paranormal activity (you fear being viewed as illogical?) or does something else drive your skepticism?
Ever given a thought that science is the wrong tool to explain everything???
If evidence exists that Miss X lies about her lifestyle, you are not going to prove she lies with science
Does she have her own private jet and is married to a billionaire?
I'm happy to keep a open mind on the subject but remain skeptical. Also I would concede it would be possible to check on her claims
Claiming she is a astronaut my skeptic scence would rise, but concede still possible
Only when she says I heard something go bump last night and can you check it please because I think it is a ghost
I can believe she heard a bump a last night, can believe she thinks it might be a ghost but neither of those is checkable as to being a ghost
Checkable as to NOT being a ghost sure
Right back at you
What drives your belief a bump sound in the night is a ghost? Ghost stories?
A inspection of house can turn up numerous items which might/can cause bump night noise but has never ever turned up a ghost explanation
Continue to colour me perpetual skeptical
RainbowSingularity:
I don't much care if you want to toss around fancy-pants terms in the hope of impressing somebody. Rather than trying to invent new words for ghosts, why not try answering the question I asked you?
How do you know there were ghosts? [unanswered]
Are you saying you saw some people and assumed they might be ghosts, but you're not sure? [unanswered]
What was it that you didn't know what it was? What made you think it was like a poltergeist? What is a poltergeist like? [unanswered]
Were these things knocked over while people were looking at them? Was anybody else around at the time? How many witnesses observed one of these "knockings over" simultaneously?[unanswered]
How clumsy were the staff, in your estimation? [unanswered]
Which technical people were consulted about the sounds? [answered - see below for my further response]
What did the sounds sound like? [unanswered]
Were the technical people professional sound consultants? [answered - see below for my further response]
Who heard the sounds? When did they hear them? Were there independent witnesses or just "reports", like the knockings over? [unanswered]
Did you see a young girl ghost running and crying in the hall? How many other people saw her? When was she seen? Was it bring your daughter to work day? [unanswered]
Tell us about how you "experienced" her. Include as many details as possible and tell us what investigation you did afterwards. [unanswered]
Which parts? What forms did these "hauntings" take? Did you see the "people" involved? Are these your experiences or second-hand "reports" from other people? [unanswered]
Did you take any time out during those few weeks to get a good photo or video of the ghost or ghosts, or to collect any other physical evidence? [unanswered]
Did you call the James Randi Foundation to claim your million dollar prize? [unanswered]
So, you claim that you, personally have had several "ghostly" experiences, and that these can be corroborated by roughly 10 other reliable witnesses. Can you please give me an example. Pick an incident where you saw a ghost with other witnesses present, and tell me about it.
Maybe you should try answering my question. It was simple enough: how do you know there were ghosts?
I don't much care if you want to toss around fancy-pants terms in the hope of impressing somebody. Rather than trying to invent new words for ghosts, why not try answering the question I asked you?
I did not ask you to repeat yourself, nor do I want you to repeat yourself. What you said the first time was quite vague and unhelpful. I asked for specifics and for clarification, not repetition.
Indeed. It is frustrating that people like you so often jump to conclusions with little, if any, concrete evidence. You jumped into this thread with a whole lot of claims, but when you're pushed even a tiny bit to elaborate or to explain or to justify all you seem to have is complaints about people asking too many difficult questions that you'd rather not answer.
I posed the following questions. (Hint: questions are followed by question marks, so they are easily spotted.) I have helpfully marked the ones you didn't answer.
How do you know there were ghosts? [unanswered]
Are you saying you saw some people and assumed they might be ghosts, but you're not sure? [unanswered]
What was it that you didn't know what it was? What made you think it was like a poltergeist? What is a poltergeist like? [unanswered]
Were these things knocked over while people were looking at them? Was anybody else around at the time? How many witnesses observed one of these "knockings over" simultaneously?[unanswered]
How clumsy were the staff, in your estimation? [unanswered]
Which technical people were consulted about the sounds? [answered - see below for my further response]
What did the sounds sound like? [unanswered]
Were the technical people professional sound consultants? [answered - see below for my further response]
Who heard the sounds? When did they hear them? Were there independent witnesses or just "reports", like the knockings over? [unanswered]
Did you see a young girl ghost running and crying in the hall? How many other people saw her? When was she seen? Was it bring your daughter to work day? [unanswered]
Tell us about how you "experienced" her. Include as many details as possible and tell us what investigation you did afterwards. [unanswered]
Which parts? What forms did these "hauntings" take? Did you see the "people" involved? Are these your experiences or second-hand "reports" from other people? [unanswered]
Did you take any time out during those few weeks to get a good photo or video of the ghost or ghosts, or to collect any other physical evidence? [unanswered]
Did you call the James Randi Foundation to claim your million dollar prize? [unanswered]
Did all those experts agree that you definitely had a haunted building (off the record)?RainbowSingularity said:
But if the evidence is so "compelling" (as MR would put it), who wouldn't be convinced by a thorough investigation?
What kinds of "technical surveillance" were in place, apart from infrared motion sensors? Do you work at the Pentagon or something?
So you say.
That doesn't sound like a ghost. So why did you mentioned dead people and list of the dead people you thought were responsible?
There never is, in my experience with ghosts.
Nonsense. According to you it was common knowledge around the building. That would mean people were quite happy to talk about it.
Great! Now we're getting somewhere.
So, you claim that you, personally have had several "ghostly" experiences, and that these can be corroborated by roughly 10 other reliable witnesses. Can you please give me an example. Pick an incident where you saw a ghost with other witnesses present, and tell me about it.
How would you know, if they aren't sharing their insider knowledge with you? Are you just guessing/hoping?
Warned by all those people who are reluctant to share any of their ghostly experiences with other people, you mean?
Have you considered that maybe they are freaked out by the weird people they'd have to share an office with?
You don't like people asking sensible questions. I get it. It's a very common response from ghost enthusiasts, I find. You get all defensive when people start to point out that you're not being very rational.
I think we've got to the bottom of why you believe in ghosts. Thank you.
Donald T, is that you?
You were never interested in finding the truth. That, too, is very common among ghost afficionados, I find.
If the universe is all but physical, then science can provide answers for all things.
An understanding of the world around us leads us to also understand the paranormal is probably bunkum.
Haha! True
Somewhat agree - I’ve stated before that I don’t automatically make the leap that every unidentified “bump in the night” is due to ghostly activity, but I’m open-minded to leaving the possibility open that if we can’t explain it after ruling out several plausible scenarios, then it might be.Ever given a thought that science is the wrong tool to explain everything???
If evidence exists that Miss X lies about her lifestyle, you are not going to prove she lies with science
Does she have her own private jet and is married to a billionaire?
I'm happy to keep a open mind on the subject but remain skeptical. Also I would concede it would be possible to check on her claims
Claiming she is a astronaut my skeptic scence would rise, but concede still possible
Only when she says I heard something go bump last night and can you check it please because I think it is a ghost
I can believe she heard a bump a last night, can believe she thinks it might be a ghost but neither of those is checkable as to being a ghost
Checkable as to NOT being a ghost sure
Right back at you
What drives your belief a bump sound in the night is a ghost? Ghost stories?
A inspection of house can turn up numerous items which might/can cause bump night noise but has never ever turned up a ghost explanation
Continue to colour me perpetual skeptical
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
I think it's far more likely that the phone call was from God and not from ghosts. It's been well investigated that God frequently makes these kinds of phone calls to let the family know that their loved ones are in good hands.
There much more evidence that God is real than there is that ghosts are real.
There much more evidence that God is real than there is that ghosts are real.
You should start a thread about this in the religion section --->>
This is the UFO/Ghosts subforum.