probably because in the process of taking away the incentives you also take away the ability of reciprocation
even stranger would be the notion of participating in a loving exchange with an entity powerless to reciprocate
One for the theists..
- Thread starter SnakeLord
- Start date
I think if you worship God because you're afraid of going to hell you must be a pretty sucky Christian to begin with. QuestionEverything, your line of thinking is not true for everyone. Some people have principles.
Hypothetically speaking, I would vote yes. I'm not Christian (though not atheist either), but if I believed in the biblical God I would worship Him regardless of reward or punishment. I do things because I believe they're the right things to do, period.
Hypothetically speaking, I would vote yes. I'm not Christian (though not atheist either), but if I believed in the biblical God I would worship Him regardless of reward or punishment. I do things because I believe they're the right things to do, period.
When did I say I had been a Christian for fear of hell? Don't put words in my mouth. You have no idea of what my level of faith was or my conduct. I have read the Bible from cover to cover, whereas most "Christians" have not. My morals are impeccable, and I will gladly stand in comparison to any so called "Christian" without shame.
So you're saying I don't have principles and you don't even know me. You are assuming quite a bit.
And at that moment I realized that a god that could provide no comfort could not exist to begin with, hence the right thing to do was not believe in a lie, i.e. a false god.
Why would you worship a god just because he created you? Do the other animals worship this supposed god? No. Such a god would not need worshipers unless he were in need of ego gratification. Doesn't sound like a godlike quality to me.
For the record I would not have been less inclined to worship god if Hell did not exist. Only if I perceived god to be a malevolent being (if he/she/it existed) would I be less inclined to worship such a god.
Now if one infers from the nonexistence of a place like hell that god does not punish evil nor reward good, while allowing evil to run rampant on the Earth...
...then such a god could easily be determined unjust, and unworthy of worship.
Perhaps we should get a Jewish response for this one, Jews don't believe in hell. They seem to be fine without it.
Now if one infers from the nonexistence of a place like hell that god does not punish evil nor reward good, while allowing evil to run rampant on the Earth...
...then such a god could easily be determined unjust, and unworthy of worship.
Perhaps we should get a Jewish response for this one, Jews don't believe in hell. They seem to be fine without it.
hence asking a question that fundamentally overrides the working definition of god is an issue in itself
But not according to the Jewish faith.
Maybe there is a god, but he's just a tyrant. Actually if you look at the god of the Old Testament, the Jewish god, he is just such a god. Of course that god is the same god that the Greeks referred to as Kronos (Saturn), and he was definitely a tyrant.
So Jews seem cool with worshiping a tyrant god.
Maybe there is a god, but he's just a tyrant. Actually if you look at the god of the Old Testament, the Jewish god, he is just such a god. Of course that god is the same god that the Greeks referred to as Kronos (Saturn), and he was definitely a tyrant.
So Jews seem cool with worshiping a tyrant god.
well take it to the jews then
Ezekiel 20:25-26 (King James Version)
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD (Yahweh).
Nice guy that Yahweh!
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD (Yahweh).
Nice guy that Yahweh!
QuestionEverything,
Who for? Theists?
Can you explained why the answer would be obviously no?
Remember, he addressed this question to theists.
Knowing that, why is it a "good question"?
Remeber, belief in God is NOT christianity.
Can you elaborate using the bible?
So because you weren't healed, you jumped ship?
You were always atheist (in the true sense).
Jan.
Who for? Theists?
Can you explained why the answer would be obviously no?
Remember, he addressed this question to theists.
Knowing that, why is it a "good question"?
Remeber, belief in God is NOT christianity.
Can you elaborate using the bible?
So because you weren't healed, you jumped ship?
You were always atheist (in the true sense).
Jan.
Jan,
What are you then? A Christian?
I'm only asking because you reply with a coldness I would expect from a Christian.
What are you then? A Christian?
I'm only asking because you reply with a coldness I would expect from a Christian.
So our Moderator is allowing you to quote scripture and not deeming it as spamming and deleting your post, like he is doing to a lot of our posts. I guess it should reveal to all the truth of the current situation.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
Oh PS:
Ezekiel 20
24 because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers’ idols.
25 “Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live;
To give someone up to something is the same as to give someone over to. That is to say you go your way the way your evil heart recons is good. God has revealed that people who reject the Love of the truth are given over to following evil deceptions.
Now lets see how long this post remains on the forum before it is deleted.....
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Then the foundation of your former belief was the expectation of benefits in the here and now.
Your former belief in God was founded on receiving benefits in this life, such as pain removal.
That is a kind of cargo cult mentality that is not supported by scripture. "In this life you will have tribulation" (Jesus said that). There are many people who suffer great suffering but still their faith is strong and they are strong, their faith is not built on the quicksand of having a good pain free life.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Clearly this scriptural quote was used as rebuttal to the previous. I don't believe I've deleted any scriptural quotes that were used to demonstrated a reason or which explains why religious adherents behave, act or think a particular way.
I do, however, delete or edit posts that contain scriptural quotes designed to evangelize or preach a sermon to others.
You have overlooked the language problem but , as we all know, he'd be speaking in tongues
I don't actually get the problem..
Most theists, (I know), seem to be under the impression that animals do not get to go to heaven or hell. They just kinda die. They die and get flushed down the toilet and that is that.
Why would it be overly problematic for this god to include humans along with them considering we too are animals, (although theists tend to cry at this last bit)?
Oh wait.. "But I'm speciallllllllllll!!"
Yeah.. ok
Most theists, (I know), seem to be under the impression that animals do not get to go to heaven or hell. They just kinda die. They die and get flushed down the toilet and that is that.
Why would it be overly problematic for this god to include humans along with them considering we too are animals, (although theists tend to cry at this last bit)?
Oh wait.. "But I'm speciallllllllllll!!"
Yeah.. ok
If he came from the Middle East as opposed to arriving in the US by helicopter, you would hound him as one of the crimnal aliens you are always banging on about.
And you are expecting even greater benefits in a putative afterlife.
All Praise the Age of Reason
Amen (Ra) to that brother! 
Adstar,
I noticed you completely glazed over this part...
"And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD (Yahweh)."
...you know, the part about how Yahweh is bragging about allowing the sacrifice of first born infants in an attempt to glorify his name.
Maybe you'd like to respond to that instead of just glazing it over.
Of course there will be some attempt at justification of how your god is never wrong, how the Israelite babies deserved to be executed for their parents' mistakes.
Should be pretty interesting to hear.
I noticed you completely glazed over this part...
"And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD (Yahweh)."
...you know, the part about how Yahweh is bragging about allowing the sacrifice of first born infants in an attempt to glorify his name.
Maybe you'd like to respond to that instead of just glazing it over.
Of course there will be some attempt at justification of how your god is never wrong, how the Israelite babies deserved to be executed for their parents' mistakes.
Should be pretty interesting to hear.