Objective Morality and Atheism

[Norsefire]

Yep, you really are right.

I have a feeling you are being sarcastic. Although as I said, in what way is what I say wrong? What good is your opinion that Hitler's doing is evil if you are powerless to stop it?

Ideas can have power, but only if you can convince people of them. If they ignore you or disagree or don't care, then the only way to stop them is with physical force.

 

[Enmos]

Me ? Sarcastic ? Nah.. lol

 

[Norsefire]

Me ? Sarcastic ? Nah.. lol

Ok seriously if you really think I am wrong, then demonstrate how. What good is morality if you are unable to stop the evil?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

What else could you have meant?

It was explained very clearly by me & several others. Your misunderstanding doesn't support you claiming I said something I didn't.

 

[Norsefire]

You said stoning homosexuals was wrong. This is what you said.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

I do not need you to tell me what I said or didn't say.
I won't rehash the whole thing offtopic in this thread.

 

[Norsefire]

-=-

I do not need you to tell me what I said or didn't say.
I won't rehash the whole thing offtopic in this thread.

That is what you said though. Why ignore reality?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

Do you have a rat up your ass???

 

[Cris]

Norsefire,

What good is morality if you are unable to stop the evil?

Huh? Morality is a state of understanding the differences between good and bad. Such knowledge does not imply that either good or bad will change their nature.

 

[Norsefire]

Good and bad represent different things to different people.

 

[Cris]

Noresefire,

Good and bad represent different things to different people.

Yes, very good. I.e. there is no absolute. Everything is relative.

So your point is?

 

[Norsefire]

This is exactly the point, and it renders morality, although not entirely useless, still a meaningless human construct as anything can be said to be moral.

 

[Cris]

This is exactly the point, and it renders morality, although not entirely useless, still a meaningless human construct as anything can be said to be moral.

But that's not true. Take a statistical normal distribution of the things most societies hold to be good or bad and you will find massive agreement, i.e. murder, rape, torture, genocide, etc.

The problems with morality comes when one group tries to impose its values on another group, i.e. religious groups trying to assert themselves. Or unfairly judging others by narrow value systems.

I agree though that to accuse someone, for example, of not being moral is a very subjective statement.

 

[S.A.M.]

Good and bad are moral statements. Atheists do not believe in morality. Its a subjective notion imposed by religious notions of right and wrong.

So this statement:

"Being a good person doesn't require God"

is manifestly false.

What is good or evil in the absence of God? Nothing. Its all human behaviour.

Objectively speaking, nothing is good or bad, its belief that makes it good or bad.

 

[James R]

Good and bad are moral statements. Atheists do not believe in morality.

Nonsense. Atheism doesn't entail any particular moral beliefs. Atheism is about not believing in gods.

Its a subjective notion imposed by religious notions of right and wrong.

You're restricting yourself to religious morality. Perhaps you imagine that's all there is. If so, you really ought to catch up with the Enlightenment.

What is good or evil in the absence of God? Nothing. Its all human behaviour.

What is it with God? It's all arbitrary commandments.

Objectively speaking, nothing is good or bad, its belief that makes it good or bad.

Yes, but not necessarily belief in sky fairies.

 

[S.A.M.]

Nonsense. Atheism doesn't entail any particular moral beliefs. Atheism is about not believing in gods.

Exactly.

 

[James R]

Yes, exactly. (Did you read the rest of my post?)

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, but you made your point in the first bit. That was my point as well.

There is no "objective" morality. Saying something is good or bad is based on notions of right and wrong. These are not present in atheism. They are from religion and societies based on these religions.

 

[Enmos]

Yes, but you made your point in the first bit. That was my point as well.

There is no "objective" morality. Saying something is good or bad is based on notions of right and wrong. These are not present in atheism.

Does God teach you morals, or do your parents ?
You are mistaking atheism for some sort of life-guide; it isn't. Atheism is just not believing in any gods, period.

They are from religion and societies based on these religions.

No SAM, religion just incorporated morals, it didn't invent them. People did, for practical reasons.
Morality is mostly just common sense. I find it disturbing that you think people cannot come up with them without belief in a skydaddy.

 

[Asguard]

actually athiests can be moral or immorral just like thiests. however unlike thiests we have yo base moral codes on prinicples which are subject to challange. this is a good thing because it limits the hitlers, bushes and binladens who justify there autrocities on what "god told them"