not allowed to talk to boys until a certain age.

[Prince_James]

Synthesizer-Patel:

Yep - it's called freedom of choice - its what conservatives like me beleive in strongly - lefties like you want to restrict that choice in order to pander to every bloody minority wish at the expense of other taxpayers - we give them the choice and they are free to exercise that choice in any way they see fit - seems fair enough to me.

I am not leftie. I am merely pointing out the fallacy of your minority preferencing. Indeed, as religion is perhaps (as freedom of speech) more of a problem than discrimination based on physical handicap, we should be lionizing the right of these people to such petty requests than anything else.

In this case we are not offering a freedom of choice though are we - we are restricting it by adding an additional physical burden to accessing that public service - on top of any physical disadvantages that person may already posess - the child in question here has no physical reason why they shouldn't receive the same treatment as anyone else, it stems from a personal and private beleif of her parents - as such when it comes to public matters it should stay personal and private.

The public school is to serve the public. These people are part of the public and are guaranteed freedom of religion. Thus it stands to reason that they ought to be able to practice their religion in such innocuous ways, especially when it does not contradict the rights of another.

Forbidding such easy concessions to this girl is tantamount to not putting up slopes and stalls for handicapped individuals. It impedes their freedom of access.

 

[synthesizer-patel]

LA out of interest do you send your children to a private school or a public school?

If the latter do they actually HAVE single sex public schools in england?

Because i can think of a very good reason why they COULD be sending the child to a multisex school and that could well simply be finantial ie they cant aford to send her to a single sex private school

FYI - In the Uk, what we call a public school is in fact a private school - for the reason that anyone can go to one provided that they pass the entrance exam and can afford the fees

yeah we are a strange bunch - but we used to own you so shuddup

but yes - as far as I know we do still have some single-sex state schools - in fact I read somewhere recently that they are on the increase

 

[synthesizer-patel]

I am not leftie.

if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck.........

I am merely pointing out the fallacy of your minority preferencing. Indeed, as religion is perhaps (as freedom of speech) more of a problem than discrimination based on physical handicap, we should be lionizing the right of these people to such petty requests than anything else.

Nobody is stopping these people from exercising their beleifs in their personal lives.
Discrimination based upon a physical handicap is certainly not less of a problem, providing for them serves to level the playing field and it does not detract from anyone elses access to that service - in contrast potentially expending extra resources in a resource-limited education system for one person's whims does the opposite - it takes resources away from others and potentially skews the playing field in their favour. I'm surprised a leftie like you doesn't get that.

The public school is to serve the public. These people are part of the public and are guaranteed freedom of religion. Thus it stands to reason that they ought to be able to practice their religion in such innocuous ways, especially when it does not contradict the rights of another.

actually as far as I know there are no specific statutes that guarantee freedom of religion in the UK - indeed the Queen is both the head of state and the head of the Church of England as such we could - in theory - make worship withing the C of E compulsary without any constitutional issues.

We allow freedom of religion through our inherrent sense of fair play - something Americans really don't understand.
But when that freedom of religion offers someone preferrential access to a public service for no good rational reason and at the expense of other users of that service it is neither easy nor innocuous.

 

[lucifers angel]

LA out of interest do you send your children to a private school or a public school?

If the latter do they actually HAVE single sex public schools in england?

Because i can think of a very good reason why they COULD be sending the child to a multisex school and that could well simply be finantial ie they cant aford to send her to a single sex private school

i send him to public school i pay my taxes and i ahve every right to do so, i also have the right to have a say in how my son is schooled, i however do not have a right to tell the school who he should talk to, who he should sit by,

and yes we do have girls schools in england this is just one very near by:


Elmslie Girls' School
Day School, 2 to 18, Girls, 290+ pupils, C of E

Elmslie Girls' School
Whitegate Drive,
Blackpool,
Lancashire,
FY3 9HL
England

 

[Asguard]

so do her parents just out of interest

 

[lucifers angel]

so do her parents just out of interest

what explain what your saying please

 

[synthesizer-patel]

so do her parents just out of interest

In the Uk parents may interact with their childrens teachers to decide how best to meet their educational needs - so for example the resource may be available to provide a child who is struggling in a particular subject with additional help - however in this case we are discussing something that has nothing to do with the actual educational needs of the child - merely the whims of the parents.

What if - for example - the only female teacher available teaches a different age-group, and that age group has to have their teaching disrupted by a change of teachers just to accomodate the whims of one childs parents - is that fair - should us tax payers support that?

Furthermore - just because you have a say - doesn't mean the school has to agree with you, or do as you say, if for example they beleive that what you are asking for is unreasonable.

 

[Asguard]

You BOTH pay the same tax (ok ajusted by income but anyway). You have no more rights than she does to be honest. ALL policies effecting children should be made in the best interest of the child (acording to the international convention on the rights of the child), now if the child has been RAISED to not talk to boys and you FORCE her to talk to your son who are you hurting?

I would say you are causing more damage to HER than she is causing to your son. After all what are you going to do? put a gun to her head if she wont talk to him?

 

[lucifers angel]

You BOTH pay the same tax (ok ajusted by income but anyway). You have no more rights than she does to be honest. ALL policies effecting children should be made in the best interest of the child (acording to the international convention on the rights of the child), now if the child has been RAISED to not talk to boys and you FORCE her to talk to your son who are you hurting?

I would say you are causing more damage to HER than she is causing to your son. After all what are you going to do? put a gun to her head if she wont talk to him?

dont be silly!!

my son is getting hurt, by her ignoring him, he likes this girl, my sons fealings shoud not be taken into account then hey?

 

[Asguard]

LA there was a girl at school i quite liked. She didnt like me at all, should she have been forced to SLEEP with me even though she didnt like me?

So what she doesnt like your son, even if she talked to boys she might not like your son. Tell him to get over it, there will be people in life who dont like you or you dont like, thats life

 

[lucifers angel]

LA there was a girl at school i quite liked. She didnt like me at all, should she have been forced to SLEEP with me even though she didnt like me?

So what she doesnt like your son, even if she talked to boys she might not like your son. Tell him to get over it, there will be people in life who dont like you or you dont like, thats life

that's crap!!

there is a BIG differance to not likign someone, (which by the way i understand) to not be ABLE to talk to boys,

i ahve told my son to keep talking to her and if she doesnt talk back then keep talking, or perents are being foolish not me

 

[Asguard]

and if all she said to him was "fuck off you freak"?

You do realise you are encoraging him to haras someone?
Great lession

 

[lucifers angel]

and if all she said to him was "fuck off you freak"?

You do realise you are encoraging him to haras someone?
Great lession

well she wont even say that because she isnt allowed to,

send her to an all girls school,

 

[synthesizer-patel]

You BOTH pay the same tax (ok ajusted by income but anyway). You have no more rights than she does to be honest. ALL policies effecting children should be made in the best interest of the child (acording to the international convention on the rights of the child), now if the child has been RAISED to not talk to boys and you FORCE her to talk to your son who are you hurting?

I would say you are causing more damage to HER than she is causing to your son. After all what are you going to do? put a gun to her head if she wont talk to him?

I have no problem with her parents enforcing the rule on the child that she isn't allowed to talk to male pupils - particularly outside of the classroom, the rules and boundaries a parent sets for their child are their business regardless of what my personal feelings about those might be
However I do have a problem with the school making special allowances for that and providing special treatment like excusing her from participation in certain classes that would require her to interact with other pupils or shuffling teaching and teacher priorities just to acommodate her.
If I was in charge of school administration I'd offer to accommodate as far as I could but would not promise and special treatment - if the parents didn't like it they have the choice to go elsewhere.

 

[Asguard]

i agree, but if i was the principle i certainly wouldnt FORCE her to talk if she didnt want to

 

[lucifers angel]

i agree, but if i was the principle i certainly wouldnt FORCE her to talk if she didnt want to

no sure, has long as other children are NOT effected by it! and they are, because they have to shuffle teachers and children around, and that isnt fair on pupils with problems with routine, therefore making them suffer

 

[synthesizer-patel]

i agree, but if i was the principle i certainly wouldnt FORCE her to talk if she didnt want to

Its tricky - we have a set curriculum in the UK, and the school are obliged to stick to it - if there was an instance where the child had to work with a male pupil to follow this curriculum then I don't see any way around it - either she follows the same curriculum as everyone else, the school simply fails the student for non-participation, or the parents find another education provider - private or otherwise - that meets their perceived needs more adequately.

In truth it shouldn't be too hard to work around this, but in the event that there isn't a work-around available then the school have to honour their obligation to the majority - not cave in to a minority - if the parents have a problem with that then that's just tough - its not as there isn't any genuine physical reason why she can't work and interact with others

Outside of the classroom certainly there's nothing to force the kid to talk to anyone she or her parents don't want her to - likewise there's nothing to stop other kids from trying to talk to her - but that's another issue entirely

 

[Prince_James]

Synthesizer-Patel:

Discrimination based upon a physical handicap is certainly not less of a problem, providing for them serves to level the playing field and it does not detract from anyone elses access to that service - in contrast potentially expending extra resources in a resource-limited education system for one person's whims does the opposite - it takes resources away from others and potentially skews the playing field in their favour. I'm surprised a leftie like you doesn't get that.

"Potentially expending extra resources"? To what? To put her in a female taught class? To not make her speak to boys? What is that going to do?

The handicap take plenty of resources away from others: It costs thousands to make a ramp and modify a bathroom stall. Mental handicaps are worse. Do you know how expensive special education, busing, nursing, et cetera, are? All when the "normal" is fine.

actually as far as I know there are no specific statutes that guarantee freedom of religion in the UK - indeed the Queen is both the head of state and the head of the Church of England as such we could - in theory - make worship withing the C of E compulsary without any constitutional issues.

We allow freedom of religion through our inherrent sense of fair play - something Americans really don't understand.
But when that freedom of religion offers someone preferrential access to a public service for no good rational reason and at the expense of other users of that service it is neither easy nor innocuous.

I believe it is covered in the anti-discrimination statutes and such. The ones that legalized Catholic MPs and such, as well as more recent ones. That being said, I am not an expert on British law.

This child gets no "preferential access".

 

[one_raven]

Separate thought: I've always believe that boys and girls, from 5th-10th grade, needed to be in separate classrooms. I can think of the vast majority of the misbehavior of boys and girls and it was mostly due to the distractions of the opposite sex during those years. I mean, I was a walking bag of testosterone during those years and though I wasn't ever much into the opposite sex, I can see how overwhelming it was for my peers during those times. Let 'em mix at lunch time and extra-curricular activities, but in the classroom, I can see the wisdom of keeping horny boys away from little girls in heat.

~String

There was a time, not too long ago, in the US when they kept boys anf girls separate in public schools - even with their own entrances.
I'm not so sure it was a abd idea.

Lucifer -
I don't see how it is hurting your child in any way to respect the wishes of this girl's parents.
Who is really hurting?
Writing a letter to the school board? Changing your child's school? Complaining about the rights of this girl?
I think you are just thrusting your values on this family.
How is it really affecting you to allow the school to try and accomidate this family - even if you disagree with their beliefs?
How would it hurt you to mind your own business?
Get over it.
I'm sure they disagree with a lot of your beliefs and ideas about raising children as well.

 

[superstring01]

There was a time, not too long ago, in the US when they kept boys anf girls separate in public schools - even with their own entrances.
I'm not so sure it was a abd idea.

Eh, separate entrances might be a stretch. I'm talking just in the classrooms during the big puberty years.

Lucifer -
I don't see how it is hurting your child in any way to respect the wishes of this girl's parents.
Who is really hurting?
Writing a letter to the school board? Changing your child's school? Complaining about the rights of this girl?
I think you are just thrusting your values on this family.
How is it really affecting you to allow the school to try and accommodate this family - even if you disagree with their beliefs?
How would it hurt you to mind your own business?
Get over it.
I'm sure they disagree with a lot of your beliefs and ideas about raising children as well.

I can see your point in that, but I just don't think that the schools should accommodate such a ridiculous request. In the same sense that the schools should not accommodate such a request if it concerned race or religions, I don't think the school should accommodate such a request on the grounds of gender. If the parents are so worried about the corrupting influences of evil little boys, then they need to keep her home. The public school system is a specific format for a specific reason, it's not a Ponderosa Steakhouse Buffet for people to pick and chose what they like and leave the rest. You take the classes according to the curriculum, you sit in the lunch room, you play stupid gym sports and you mix with boys girls, whites, blacks, Hispanics and everything else. If that's too much, then, as I said, maybe homeschooling is the right choice.

Or a cave.

Whatever.

~String