News From Gaza

[Vkothii]

You forgot about the rather glaring difference between you shooting Arabs if they enter your house at 2am, and your countrymen entering Palestinian houses at 2am (or anytime they like).
What happens in both cases is more dead or arrested Arabs and more examples of the asymmetrical "state" of Israel.

 

[Axes]

Israel started the attempt to annex palestinian land through force before the war started.

Hardly.

 

[CheskiChips]

You forgot about the rather glaring difference between you shooting Arabs if they enter your house at 2am, and your countrymen entering Palestinian houses at 2am (or anytime they like).
What happens in both cases is more dead or arrested Arabs and more examples of the asymmetrical "state" of Israel.

Okay; I will make a deal with you Vkothii. After you live there, or spend 2 months there at the least...you can have a view of the daily events in the country that is valid. Until then all of your information is second hand.

That goes for all of you.

 

[Billy T]

...That goes for all of you.

Based on your post 1700, you seem to me like a reasonable supporter of Israel's right to exist in peace. Although Spock would surely not agree, I am too.

You are relative new here. Surely did not see my post of several years ago suggestion that (and how) Israel should (and could) better protect itself from the terrorist.

First please at least skim:

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1960080&postcount=1394

and then read the details posted years ago at:

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1124159&postcount=115 (No need to return here for this link - it is 2nd one included in post 1394's link above - just click on it there.)

I would like to know your reaction to the alternative defensive plan I suggested long ago. I want to save Israeli lives and give a decade or so for the terrorist to die or grow older or at least lose their support among the Palestinians.

 

[S.A.M.]

That's not a fact, that's an opinion. Palestinians have been deprived of their homes due to a history of spiraling violence against and between an increasing immigrant Jewish population who had every right to be there.

Thats the fantasy right there, the immigrant Jews have NO RIGHT to take native Palestinian land.

 

[Billy T]

Thats the fantasy right there, the immigrant Jews have NO RIGHT to take native Palestinian land.

Well I did leave the USA, which by your logic only should be occupied by the native indians, but moving to Brazil is just more of the stronger power taking from the less powerful initial occupiers, as it has been throughout history.

Brazil is compensating the natives - just last week the Brazilian "supreme court" ruled that the non-natives who have invaded the reservation to plant rice must leave. The natives in Brazil have exclusive use of many reservations, that total about twice the area of France (for a population less than Paris has).

I doubt that their is any place on earth where the original population is still in control of the land. Your ancestors came into India from the North East, I am pretty sure. Go back their (Southern Turkey, Iran, Afghanestan, etc.) is you feel so strongly about these historic fact. IMHO once a couple of generations have died off, the most the descendents of the original holders of the land have any right to is compensation for what was clearly stolen from them.

Same reason Greece has a right to at least some compensation for the 2000 year treasures in the British Museum, but I do not think a right of return for them now. Hell even the "vestal virgins" supporting the roof of the small temple building near the Parthenon are fakes, put there by the Government of Greece - the real ones are in some air conditioned / pollution free room hidden from view. Where the originals are is not nearly as important as that they are well cared for. -MHO.

 

[S.A.M.]

Well I did leave the USA, which by your logic only should be occupied by the native indians, but moving to Brazil is just more of the stronger power taking from the less powerful initial occupiers, as it has been throughout history.

Brazil is compensating the natives - just last week the Brazilian "supreme court" ruled that the non-natives who have invaded the reservation to plant rice must leave. The natives in Brazil have exclusive use of many reservations, that total about twice the area of France (for a population less than Paris has).

I doubt that their is any place on earth where the original population is still in control of the land. Your ancestors came into India from the North East, I am pretty sure. Go back their (Southern Turkey, Iran, Afghanestan, etc.) is you feel so strongly about these historic fact. IMHO once a couple of generations have died off, the most the descendents of the original holders of the land have any right to is compensation for what was clearly stolen from them.

Same reason Greece has a right to at least some compensation for the 2000 year treasures in the British Museum, but I do not think a right of return for them now. Hell even the "vestal virgins" supporting the roof of the small temple building near the Parthenon are fakes, put there by the Government of Greece - the real ones are in some air conditioned / pollution free room hidden from view. Where the originals are is not nearly as important as that they are well cared for. -MHO.

So does your right to move to Brazil supersede that of the native Brazilians? Should you be permitted for instance to kill and take the homes and lands of those who live there, because you can? Do you have a right to land in Brazil?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

So does your right to move to Brazil supersede that of the native Brazilians? Should you be permitted for instance to kill and take the homes and lands of those who live there, because you can? Do you have a right to land in Brazil?

Actually it does, if he has the money and power to do so.

The world is nothing but the aggressive use of force, the strong rule and the weak are ruled, the same in Islam, as any other system in the world.

Islam is nothing more then the aggressive use of force for religious political, ends.

It uses offer, and backs up that offer with the use of force, it is just that there are other forces out their to counter that force and aggression.

Islam with out Violent Jihad would still be nothing but a back water minority religion on the Arabian Peninsula.

 

[S.A.M.]

Actually it does, if he has the money and power to do so.

The world is nothing but the aggressive use of force, the strong rule and the weak are ruled, the same in Islam, as any other system in the world.

So you think the Holocaust was justified, because the Germans were stronger? I don't. I think might should not make right.

This is the logic that Israelis use for occupying Palestine. Which is ridiculous, considering their history, really.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

So you think the Holocaust was justified, because the Germans were stronger? I don't. I think might should not make right.

No, the Germans weren't stronger and they paid the price, if the Germans had won the war you would have your wish, no Jews in Palestine, no Jews left any were.

This is the logic that Israelis use for occupying Palestine. Which is ridiculous, considering their history, really.

No it was the logic that the Arabs used when they started this whole mess by attacking Israel, a state formed by the U.N. in the exact same way that Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Iraq were formed, under the same legal process.

The Arabs States tried to use aggressive force to accomplish their economic, and political goals, and they lost, they didn't have the money or the force necessary to achieve their ends.

 

[S.A.M.]

No, the Germans weren't stronger and they paid the price, if the Germans had won the war you would have your wish, no Jews in Palestine, no Jews left any were.

And according to your ideas, that would have been okay, because "Might makes right". Correct?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

And according to your ideas, that would have been okay, because "Might makes right". Correct?

Islams way.

 

[S.A.M.]

Its interesting to see, from your support of Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, that you would have been of those in Germany that condoned the torture of the Jews in the "best intrst of the country"

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Its interesting to see, from your support of Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, that you would have been of those in Germany that condoned the torture of the Jews in the "best intrst of the country"

A minor difference, called terrorism, and mass murder.

Have there been mass roundups of who ever?

Has been mass murder of detainees?

Are there gas chambers processing 10 of thousands of victims everyday?

Are people being murdered for their race? Religion? By Moslems yes.

Who is Murdering mass's of civilian and every week? Moslem Suicide Bombers.

I find it interesting that you support the mass killing of innocents by Moslem Suicide Bombers on Jihad, day in and day out, month in and month out, year in and year out, as long as it is done in the Name of Allah and the Quran, in defence of the Ummah,

,but they are targeting the Ummah, not the Infidel.

 

[S.A.M.]

Terrorism and mass murder? Its their land!! How can defending your own land from foreign forces be terrorism and mass murder? They did not go to Europe and Russia to kill Jews. They were on their own land, in their own homes. They have a right to defend themselves from fanatical Jews who think God gave them the land.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Terrorism and mass murder? Its their land!! How can defending your own land from foreign forces be terrorism and mass murder? They did not go to Europe and Russia to kill Jews. They were on their own land, in their own homes. They have a right to defend themselves from fanatical Jews who think God gave them the land.

Terrorism and mass murder?

Yes, it is in the history of the forced mass exodus, from Arab lands of the Jews.

So why didn't the Arabs give the lands confiscated from the Jews to the so called Palestinians as a home in stead of keeping it for themselves?

Prove that it was their land, Title and Deed, under Law, a squatters no matter how long don't have Title and Deed, it was from the Middle East were the basic laws of civilization come from, and the rights of provable ownership.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, it is in the history of the forced mass exodus, from Arab lands of the Jews.

So why didn't the Arabs give the lands confiscated from the Jews to the so called Palestinians as a home in stead of keeping it for themselves?

An exodus? Heh. Wasn't that around the time of the HOLOCAUST? When Americans turned away people escaping the Holocaust, it was the Middle East that opened its arms to them, as it has time and again, everytime the genocidal Christians tried to kill the Jews. Its the Jews everlasting loss that they have now cut off that sanctuary for themselves.

Prove that it was their land, Title and Deed, under Law, a squatters no matter how long don't have Title and Deed, it was from the Middle East were the basic laws of civilization come from, and the rights of provable ownership.

Thats how you stole the land of the native Americans.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

An exodus? Heh. Wasn't that around the time of the HOLOCAUST? When Americans turned away people escaping the Holocaust, it was the Middle East that opened its arms to them, as it has time and again, everytime the genocidal Christians tried to kill the Jews. Its the Jews everlasting loss that they have now cut off that sanctuary for themselves.

Thats how you stole the land of the native Americans.

Non Sequitur.

Also I have never defended the turning away of the Jewish Refugees.

But it is also exactly how Islam spread throughout the Middle East, Africa and Asia.

 

[S.A.M.]

Also I have never defended the turning of the Jewish Refugees.

Thats what you say now. But you're the same person who justifies torture of Muslims today. So you would have been among those who insisted that those dirty Jews be turned away then. Bigots are all the same in very generation.

 

[Billy T]

....Should you be permitted for instance to kill and take the homes and lands of those who live there, because you can? Do you have a right to land in Brazil?

I have not killed any. I did buy about 100 acre farm, with two small houses on it for US$ 20,000 about 17 years ago (Actually before coming to live here as permanent resident in Brazilian lady's apartment with her. - Insurance in case that did not work out. After 15 years of living together, considering our ages, we decided last year to get married.)

That $20K is a hell of a lot more than the Dutch paid for Manhattan Island.

I am not sure, perhaps a good liberal like you can tell me, but was Feven (spelled phonetically) who said:

"All property is theath." - basically true as God did not give deeds to any one, but some claim he did.