News From Gaza

[otheadp]

You 2 are still at it? LOL

And SAM, I see you've amassed 875 posts in just a few days. AWESOME

 

[S.A.M.]

I must interject that the One-State resolution will require that Palestinians get beyond their hard feelings, and settle for something new under the Israeli flag: Equal protection under the law, but mostly ceremonial restitution and no legal advantages or disadvantages in citizenship. This will require Palestinians a sufficient sense of humor to endure baksheesh for yahudi holding the highest offices in government and banks- Palestinian dhimmitude, if you understand me. The economics and demographics will scare the hell out of many Israeli Jews, but they are intelligent enough to understand the inevitability of integration of a secular and multicultural Israel with a secular/multicultural Palestine. The alternative is to allow the fundamentalists on all sides to have war.

Your post is better suited to this thread

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=80757

 

[hypewaders]

Your wish is my command: It's there (not here any more).

 

[Mr.Spock]

You 2 are still at it? LOL

And SAM, I see you've amassed 875 posts in just a few days. AWESOME

shes just trying to provoke me. pay no attention.

 

[Zephyr]

You must be brilliant - you found me out, even though in the 30 years I worked on US Navy funds at APL, mainly on projects related to ship defenses, the Navy never did.

So you have contacts in the US military? Why don't you suggest your plan to some of them? Either they can tell you why it won't work, or if it would work maybe they can persuade the US to tell Israel to implement it.

Although given what is happening in Iraq is it valid to assume that the US army is any more moral than the Israeli army?

Also do you know that the Bedouin are only a tiny fraction of the Arab Muslims in Israel? Unlike the others, the Bedouin are trying to maintain a nomadic lifestyle in a majority settled country. Hasn't this situation led to similar problems in other countries? I think the nomadic Bedouin are finding their range increasingly restricted in the Arab countries neighbouring Israel too.

 

[John99]

BTW, about 6 months ago I asked you how does an orthodox Jews confirm that he has used enough water when washing his hands as required before eatting? In deserts etc. there is quite an understandable temptation to use very little. I am not orthodox, but know the answer as I lived in a rabbi’s house for a month one summer. Once I could even weave the tifillen straps thru my fingers to form the Hebrew word for God. – I bet you never have.

After your failure to tell how to test for using enough water during hand washing, I even gave you a one word hint (“elbow”)

ok. what does that have to do with anything?

 

[S.A.M.]

So you have contacts in the US military? Why don't you suggest your plan to some of them? Either they can tell you why it won't work, or if it would work maybe they can persuade the US to tell Israel to implement it.

Although given what is happening in Iraq is it valid to assume that the US army is any more moral than the Israeli army?

Also do you know that the Bedouin are only a tiny fraction of the Arab Muslims in Israel? Unlike the others, the Bedouin are trying to maintain a nomadic lifestyle in a majority settled country. Hasn't this situation led to similar problems in other countries? I think the nomadic Bedouin are finding their range increasingly restricted in the Arab countries neighbouring Israel too.

Is their land being handed over to invited foreign settlers in other countries as well?
Relocated to infertile land in reservations?
Facing unemployment due to religious discrimination?

During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the vast majority of the Bedouins in the Naqab region fled or were expelled to Egypt or Jordan. Of the 65,750 that existed before the war about 11,000 remained. Those who remained belonged to the Tiaha confederation[11] and were relocated by the Israeli government the 1950s and 1960s to a reservation in the northeast corner of the Negev, called the "siyag" (closure) made up of relatively infertile land in the northeastern Negev comprising 10% of the Negev desert.[12] As of 1951, the United Nations reported the expulsion of about 7,000 Negev Bedouins into neighbouring Jordan, the Gaza Strip and the Sinai. Many, however, returned undetected.[13]

Between 1940 and 1966, the Bedouin, like other Arabs, were placed under military administration by Israel.[6] During this time they were restricted to reservations, despite meager subsistence levels. As Jewish immigration increased, unemployment levels in the Bedouin population reached record highs. As of 1958, employment in the Bedouin male population was less than 3.5%. Bedouins were generally discriminated against in employment, as preference was given to Jews

Having their villages designated illegal and demolished?

The other half of Bedouin citizens of Israel live in 45 villages considered illegal by the Israeli government. The Israeli government refuses to connect citizens of these villages to the electrical grid or water mains, and do not extend municipal trash-pickup to the unrecognized villages. (Many of these villages afre located adjacent to regional electrical and water stations but are denied access). Longstanding government plans to demolish the 45 ‘unrecognized’ villages, remove the Bedouin inhabitants, and concentrate them in seven planned towns, were resuscitated under the Sharon administration. During his time, the ‘Removal of Intruders Law’ was given new teeth in conjunction with a budget for military forces devoted to demolition and removal campaigns.

Israel has become an apartheid state.

 

[Vkothii]

shes just trying to provoke me. pay no attention.

Mate, you don't need any provoking.

 

[hypewaders]

I've never been able to provoke Spock in civil discourse. I should call him Spock-who's sane, or Spock'l hakim

 

[Mr.Spock]

Mate, you don't need any provoking.

should i take it as an indication i am a passionate individual?

 

[Billy T]

ok. what does that have to do with anything?

It shows Spock's lack of knowledge about the Jewish laws and culture. He is almost continuously here - can't have a normal job.

When he first appeared was when Israel hired many students to do PR for Israel, on the net. I suggested he was one, but later because of his passion on the subject and lack of being responsive to questions (like a politician ducking the questions, he just sticks to the script) I gave him the benefit of the doubt and retracted my suggestion that he was a paid shill for Israel. Recently, I am beginning to believe I may have been right in my quick initial guess. He does not (as far as I have seen) do any posting on any other subject. Most of my posts do not concern Israel, but other subjects. Perhaps he is paid by the number of Israeli posts only?

It does not really matter what I think or guess. - You can judge him for yourself. I was just testing his knowledge about what it is to be a religious Jew. I have spent, in my youth, quite a lot of time with the rabbi and his family, and always admired the Jewish respect for learning, especially as it does not stop their love of life as expressed in their dancing. - I did a lot of that at the Jewish community center in Baltimore. They were very open to me, a non-Jew*, except when I applied for pool membership. I was active in the civil right movement, also an admirer of Gandhi - so every week when I went to the folk dances, I would stop in the office and ask if the membership committee had ruled on my pool application - I hate to admit it but I really enjoyed embarrassing them on this hypocrisy of being "open" - I think they (with some justification) feared I was more interested in the Jewish girls in the pool than the water. You can't get very personal one-on-one in a "line dance."
-------------
*Everywhere** I went folk dancing there were more females than males - Perhaps, I was needed there on the dance floor.
**Best folk dance group in that era was at the YWCA. My favorate partner for couple dances was an old lady at least 40 years older than me. I tend to have two left feet but she was always kind and understanding. (Some dances are very complex -she knew them all and helped me a lot.) Surely she is dead now so will tell her name, probably not the real one, but we all called her "Mini Pearl" - do not know why.

 

[draqon]

Well for one thing Spock is a great Jewish patriot of his country of Israel.

 

[Mr.Spock]

It shows Spock's lack of knowledge about the Jewish laws and culture. He is almost continuously here - can't have a normal job.

When he first appeared was when Israel hired many students to do PR for Israel, on the net. I suggested he was one, but later because of his passion on the subject and lack of being responsive to questions (like a politician ducking the questions, he just sticks to the script) I gave him the benefit of the doubt and retracted my suggestion that he was a paid shill for Israel. Recently, I am beginning to believe I may have been right in my quick initial guess. He does not (as far as I have seen) do any posting on any other subject. Most of my posts do not concern Israel, but other subjects. Perhaps he is paid by the number of Israeli posts only?

It does not really matter what I think or guess. - You can judge him for yourself. I was just testing his knowledge about what it is to be a religious Jew. I have spent, in my youth, quite a lot of time with the rabbi and his family, and always admired the Jewish respect for learning, especially as it does not stop their love of life as expressed in their dancing. - I did a lot of that at the Jewish community center in Baltimore. They were very open to me, a non-Jew*, except when I applied for pool membership. I was active in the civil right movement, also an admirer of Gandhi - so every week when I went to the folk dances, I would stop in the office and ask if the membership committee had ruled on my pool application - I hate to admit it but I really enjoyed embarrassing them on this hypocrisy of being "open" - I think they (with some justification) feared I was more interested in the Jewish girls in the pool than the water. You can't get very personal one-on-one in a "line dance."
-------------
*Everywhere** I went folk dancing there were more females than males - Perhaps, I was needed there on the dance floor.
**Best folk dance group in that era was at the YWCA. My favorate partner for couple dances was an old lady at least 40 years older than me. I tend to have two left feet but she was always kind and understanding. (Some dances are very complex -she knew them all and helped me a lot.) Surely she is dead now so will tell her name, probably not the real one, but we all called her "Mini Pearl" - do not know why.

Billy T. James, MBE (born William James Taitoko, 1948; died August 7, 1991) was an entertainer and comedian from Waikato, New Zealand

 

[S.A.M.]

Israel ruled out all debate on letting Palestinian refugees return in any peace deal

Well clearly, there is no question then that Jewish refugees to Palestine are all illegal and had no right to create a state, by Israeli standards.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKL161725720080516

As Olmert himself says:

I would question someone's commitment to peace and reconciliation if they believe that the so-called right of return must be implemented.

Guess he's right. We should not recognise any Jewish right of return to "Israel"


As Israelis Celebrate Independence and Palestinians Mark the “Nakba,” a Debate with Benny Morris, Saree Makdisi and Norman Finkelstein

Israeli Writer-Activist Tikva Honig-Parnass, Who Fought for Israel’s Founding in 1948, on 60 Years of Palestinian Dispossession and Occupation

 

[Tchup]

Who is a refugee?

You know why Israel will never allow the "refugees" to "come back" ?
because of the UNRWA definition of Palestinian refugee :

...The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) defines a Palestinian refugee as a person "whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict".

UNRWA's definition of a refugee also covers the descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948[2] regardless of whether they reside in areas designated as refugee camps or in established, permanent communities.[3] Based on this definition the number of Palestinian refugees has grown from 711,000 in 1950[4] to over four million registered with the UN in 2002. This is a major exception to the normal definition of refugee. Descendants of Palestinian refugees under the authority of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) are the only group to be granted refugee status on that basis alone.[5]

1) Why from 1946?
because most moslems came to Israel these yesrs, befor 1946 they were alot less than 711,000. With the Jews came the money to bulid the land, they needed working hands and the arabs did it for cheap. If the definition was "arabs who lived in Israel befor 1930" the nuber would have been much lower than 700,000...

2) Why the Descendants defined as refugees? most of the people who lived in 1948 are not with us today, thier descendants are not refugees and shouldn't get anything from the UN.

 

[s0meguy]

Hey SAM, you gotta see that all this whining about the injustice isn't going to help the Palestinians.

 

[hypewaders]

Yeah, the niggers tried that in Murka back in the 60s- even wanted to share our schools bathrooms, drinking fountains, an shit.

 

[S.A.M.]

2) Why the Descendants defined as refugees? most of the people who lived in 1948 are not with us today, thier descendants are not refugees and shouldn't get anything from the UN.

Like just about everyone of the 93% Jews who moved to Palestine at the time, yes? Descendants after 2000 years who were granted a state on someone else's land?

 

[Tchup]

No mans land

The Jews that came, found No man land, with nothing there.
Its easy to know that because Israel is sacret for the Christians for the last 2000 years, so we have documented traveles logs for that time.

Only after the Jewish and British money came, and working hands were needed, arabs from all over came into Israel.

The Land was bulied by the Jews, in 1948 the arab ignored the UN and tried the kill all the jews. theres no reason what so ever thats israel today will the let the descendant of those arabs some parts of Israel.

 

[DiamondHearts]

Are you a Jew or Israeli by chance?

The Jews that came, found No man land, with nothing there.
Its easy to know that because Israel is sacret for the Christians for the last 2000 years, so we have documented traveles logs for that time.

So what of the Canaanites and other indigenous people of Palestine, those Jews who embraced Christianity, and subsequently those who embraced Islam. Palestinians are not one people, but a mix of all the groups contained in the Palestinian territories. Many of them are genetically indistinguishable from the Jews, because many of them are Jews genetically, but who embraced Christianity and Islam.

Only after the Jewish and British money came, and working hands were needed, arabs from all over came into Israel.

The Land was bulied by the Jews, in 1948 the arab ignored the UN and tried the kill all the jews. theres no reason what so ever thats israel today will the let the descendant of those arabs some parts of Israel.

You are denying the heritage and mark which the present Palestinians build on the land you now call your own. Can you live in Europe and return 1500+ years later to expect that the land has remained uninhabited? Those Jews and the indigenous people of Palestine lived together in peace and security for many centuries, but Israel has undone all of it.

By the way, how do you genetically define an "Arab". This term is an abused term, which is quite meaningless when it comes to genetics as Arabs are a heterogenous mixture of many different people of the ancient world.