News clips from 9-11-2001 **You can't debunk this**

[spidergoat]

So now there are supposed to be multiple stations of thermite cutting aparatus, operating remotely, making pools of molten steel while people are evacuating, cutting the towers down while an airplane runs into them? Do you expect anyone to accept this premise?

 

[GeoffP]

Having torch and welding experience I can tell you that cutting those steel beams at an angle is unrealistic.

What, when there's a building fallen down around them? How many right angles are going to be left? It's pretty hard to suppose that the wreckage of a building is going to be an optimal environment for cutting anything.

Cutting at an angle is just more unneccessary work

How? That's silly. You're digging through wreckage, trying to locate bodies or survivors. If it gets the column out of the way, what does it matter? You seem to suppose a lot.

That is incorrect. Can you please share with me what facts you're basing your hypothesis on?

"Mr. Science". Minus the grammar.

Molten steel is a result of thermate being used to cut the steel colums.

It is? Can you please share with me what facts you're basing your hypothesis on?

It would take an abundant amount of thermate to bring down a structure that contained over 2 million tons of steel.

Yes.

That's why there was pools of molten steel.

Ah, this is another supposition. You suppose that the melted steel was the work of thermite. Yet, how is the steel still molten after being in the wreckage for three days, Mr. Science? :shrug: Thermite burns out quite quickly. Was the thermite on a special slow-burn timer for some reason?

And the molten steel was there for several weeks as reported in the New Scientist article i linked.

I'll repost my response to the problem here:

“

Oxidation of iron by air is not the only EXOTHERMIC reaction of iron (= structural steel which is about 98 % Fe, 1 % Mn, 0.2 % C, 0.2 % Si.....). There is at least one additional reaction of iron with the capability of keeping the rubble pile hot and cooking!

The reaction between IRON AND STEAM is also very EXOTHERMIC and fast at temperatures above 400 deg C. This reaction produces Fe3O4 AND HYDROGEN. It is the classic example of a REVERSIBLE REACTION studied in Chemistry labs at high school. But believe it or not, back at the turn of the century, the reaction of iron and steam was used as an industrial process for the manufacture of hydrogen.

I think iron and steam could have reacted in this way (at least for a while) and generated a lot of heat. What is more, the hydrogen released would have been converted back to water by reaction with oxygen, thereby generating even more heat. In this case spraying water on the rubble pile was like adding fuel to a fire!

Now add in gypsum reactions with H2 and CO and we have a great source of SO2 and/or H2S to sulfide the steel!

Perhaps the endless spraying of water on the rubble pile was not such a good idea!

In the usual lab experiment on the reversible reaction of iron and "steam", nitrogen (or some inert gas) is bubbled through water to create a gas stream saturated with water vapor at room temperature. This gas is then allowed to flow into a glass tube about 1 meter long containing iron in an inert boat at its center. This assembly is heated in a tube furnace to some desired temperature, say 500 deg C. The hydrogen/ nitrogen gas mixture is collected at the outlet of the tube furnace.

In the industrial process the feed gas might also be "water gas" which is a mixture of CO and water vapor. The outlet gas contains mostly H2 and CO2.

I am sure there was plenty of water vapor AND oxygen in the void spaces in the rubble pile. This is the "steam" I am referring to.

Please remember that the recovered pieces of structural steel were heavily OXIDIZED as well as sulfided. The most important oxidizing agents available in the rubble pile were obviously O2 and H2O.

The rubble pile was not only inhomogeneous with regard to its composition, it was inhomogeneous with regard to its temperature. This was due to localized chemical reactions. Such reactions were capable of generating high temperatures in these localized hot spots.

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/ironburns.htm

Hot steel continues to undergo exothermic oxidation in air, which results in iron melting. (Steel is largely iron, as you may well know.) What we have is essentially a recreation of a turn-of-the-century industrial technique coupled with gypsum and other contaminants from office insulation and drywall.”

If you're going to debate me atleast read my points. So I don't have to keep repeating the same evidence over and over again.

Ah, I think this applies to you and my above post more than it does to spidergoat. Please read the post in full this time. I would recommend a book on metallurgy and engineering also.

Checkmate!

 

[GeoffP]

So now there are supposed to be multiple stations of thermite cutting aparatus, operating remotely, making pools of molten steel while people are evacuating, cutting the towers down while an airplane runs into them? Do you expect anyone to accept this premise?

Yeah the joint planestrike-with-thermite thing does sound pretty stupid, really. The plane couldn't have damaged the thermite equipment, the masses of it? What would FEMA have said if they found a massive unexploded thermite bomb in the wreckage? Kind of a hard coverup, I'd imagine.

 

[MacGyver1968]

So now there are supposed to be multiple stations of thermite cutting aparatus, operating remotely, making pools of molten steel while people are evacuating, cutting the towers down while an airplane runs into them? Do you expect anyone to accept this premise?

......and they happened to pick the exact right floor on both towers to set these explosives, since we all did see the collapse of both towers start at the collision point. That's some mighty fine planning.

:bugeye:

 

[Ganymede]

......and they happened to pick the exact right floor on both towers to set these explosives, since we all did see the collapse of both towers start at the collision point. That's some mighty fine planning.

:bugeye:

You've obviously have never seen a controlled demolition. What's up with you Government apologists anyway? On one hand, you claim it's not a stretch of the imagination for a rookie pilot to pull off the same areial manuvers that most professional pilots can't. But it's a stretch of the imagination to bring down a steel sky scraper using military grad explosives? Okay.

 

[GeoffP]

Yeah, planted at the precise point the airplanes hit, and which weren't destroyed by the impact of 170 tons of aircraft and incidentals.

Don't underestimate the Lizardoids, my friend. We do good work. Now excuse me while I run off to collect my New World Order check. Long live the conspiracy!

 

[Ganymede]

......and they happened to pick the exact right floor on both towers to set these explosives, since we all did see the collapse of both towers start at the collision point. That's some mighty fine planning.

:bugeye:

Did the same thing happen with Building 7? Did it collapse at the impact point? NO IT DIDN'T!

 

[GeoffP]

You've obviously have never seen a controlled demolition.

You've obviously have never seen a grammar text.

What's up with you Government apologists anyway?

Well, it's a slow day at the secret CIA office. The best conspiracies pretty much run themselves, you know.

 

[GeoffP]

Did the same thing happen with Building 7? Did it collapse at the impact point? NO IT DIDN'T!

No, it just collapsed at the 24,000-gallons-of-diesel-fuel-and-12-transformers-burning-all-day-point. But don't let that slow you down.

 

[shichimenshyo]

 

[GeoffP]

Jawohl!

 

[MacGyver1968]

Well, it's a slow day at the secret CIA office.

LOL...same here over at the NSA....hold on...gotta take care of some people who've discovered the moon landing was faked...POW! POW! (thud..thud) Hey Johnson...help me clean this up.

 

[GeoffP]

heh.

 

[Kadark]

No, it just collapsed at the 24,000-gallons-of-diesel-fuel-and-12-transformers-burning-all-day-point. But don't let that slow you down.

Building seven did have oil to supply emergency electric generation, but they were in tanks that did not catch fire until after the collapse.

 

[John99]

Building seven did have oil to supply emergency electric generation, but they were in tanks that did not catch fire until after the collapse.

While i am still trying to get a logical response to any kind of motive for taking this buiding down how do you know what happend to the oil tanks?

 

[Kadark]

The tanks that provided fuel for the emergency generators were located in the building. The Silverstein and Salomon Smith Barney (SSB) fuel tanks were underground below the loading dock. The OEM tank was on the ground floor on a fire-rated steel platform within a 4-hour fire-rated enclosure. SSB had supply and return piping to the emergency generators made from a 2-1/2-inch double-wall steel pipe with a 4-inch outside diameter. The SSB fuel oil riser was single-wall pipe with a masonry shaft. This means that the oil riser pipe was encased in a solid concrete shaft. On the 5th floor, only the horizontal piping was a double-wall pipe within a pipe. The pumps located at the ground floor could supply 75 gallons per minute (gpm). A 3-gpm fuel supply rate was needed for each of the nine 1,725-kilowatt (kW) generators located on the 5th floor. One gallon would be consumed and the other 2 gallons would continue to circulate through the system. The SSB fuel oil pumps were provided with UPS power supported by both base building emergency power and SSB standby power. The volume between the inner and outer pipes was designed to contain a leak from the inner pressurized pipe and direct that fuel oil to a containment vessel. Upon detection of fuel oil in the containment vessel, the fuel oil pumps automatically de-energized. A drop in pressure would trip a switch, deactivating the pump. The SSB fuel oil pumps and distribution piping were dedicated to the SSB generator plant. The base building life safety generators and OEM generators had their own dedicated fuel oil pumps and piping. The Silverstein generators consisted of two 900-kW units, which were also located on the 5th floor, and supplied by a 275-gallon day tank. Other characteristics of the design or controls for the fuel system for the generators are unknown.

That's a good description of the tanks, including their functioning and location.

 

[GeoffP]

Building seven did have oil to supply emergency electric generation, but they were in tanks that did not catch fire until after the collapse.

Actually, WTC 7 had tanks of diesel fuel for the generators.

Mechanical equipment, including 12 transformers on the fifth floor, was installed on floors four through seven. Several generators in the building were used by the Office of Emergency Management, Salomon Smith Barney and others.[6] Storage tanks contained 24,000 gallons (91,000 L) of diesel fuel to supply the generators.[7] Fuel oil distribution components were located at ground level, up to the ninth floor.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTC_7

 

[shichimenshyo]

The tanks that provided fuel for the emergency generators were located in the building. The Silverstein and Salomon Smith Barney (SSB) fuel tanks were underground below the loading dock. The OEM tank was on the ground floor on a fire-rated steel platform within a 4-hour fire-rated enclosure. SSB had supply and return piping to the emergency generators made from a 2-1/2-inch double-wall steel pipe with a 4-inch outside diameter. The SSB fuel oil riser was single-wall pipe with a masonry shaft. This means that the oil riser pipe was encased in a solid concrete shaft. On the 5th floor, only the horizontal piping was a double-wall pipe within a pipe. The pumps located at the ground floor could supply 75 gallons per minute (gpm). A 3-gpm fuel supply rate was needed for each of the nine 1,725-kilowatt (kW) generators located on the 5th floor. One gallon would be consumed and the other 2 gallons would continue to circulate through the system. This is odd. Why pump 3 gallons when only 1 is needed? The SSB fuel oil pumps were provided with UPS power supported by both base building emergency power and SSB standby power. The volume between the inner and outer pipes was designed to contain a leak from the inner pressurized pipe and direct that fuel oil to a containment vessel. Upon detection of fuel oil in the containment vessel, the fuel oil pumps automatically de-energized. This sounds unlikely, as it is much easier to detect leakage by the drop in pressure in the inner pipe. A drop in pressure would trip a switch, deactivating the pump. The SSB fuel oil pumps and distribution piping were dedicated to the SSB generator plant. The base building life safety generators and OEM generators had their own dedicated fuel oil pumps and piping. The Silverstein generators consisted of two 900-kW units, which were also located on the 5th floor, and supplied by a 275-gallon day tank. Other characteristics of the design or controls for the fuel system for the generators are unknown.

That's a good description of the tanks, including their functioning and location.

where did this info come from

 

[Ganymede]

LOL...same here over at the NSA....hold on...gotta take care of some people who've discovered the moon landing was faked...POW! POW! (thud..thud) Hey Johnson...help me clean this up.

While you're at it, ask him about the WMD's too! Because they never lie!

 

[GeoffP]

While you're at it, ask him about the WMD's too! Because they never lie!

Unrelated issue. If we were to use Ganymede's new standard, we would be forced to disregard all his succeeding arguments on basis of his former ones.