New Wikileaks Dump is Unconscionable

countezero said:
So far as I know there is no evidence of the US doing that. Most of the US effort in cyberspace is defensive. China is the one attacking people and systems with hackers -- and the leaks show that.
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Apparently Assange is holding back on what he calls the 'thermo nuclear device'

LONDON/MELBOURNE: Internet whistleblower WikiLeaks is holding back secret material, which it regards as "thermo nuclear device" to be released if it needed to protect itself as Australia said it would provide consular services to the organisation's founder Julian Assange if arrested.

Warning that Assange's legal pursuit in Sweden had "political motivations", his lawyer Marx Stephens said that WikiLeaks still held secret material which would be released if it needed to protect itself.

"The material being held back is like a thermo nuclear device", Stephens told BBC and said Assange would fight attempts to take him to Sweden to face rape allegations.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...thermo-nuclear-device/articleshow/7053016.cms
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Ok fair enough, but thats a blog type entry, not exactly a 'news story'. I am not defending the CIA, or any other western intelligence organistation, but, you cannot make omlettes without breaking an egg.

The means by which people obtain information is always subject to scrutiny but its a necessary part of interrogation in some respects. you do not get information, necessary to saving a life or several hundred, by offering a terrorist a cup of tea and a doughnut, do you?

A person may give vital information to an agent, and then retract it saying he was beaten and tortured. Personally I place a bit more faith in the CIA, or MI6 or whoever than the bastard trying to bomb me. He who lives by the sword etc etc.
 
Red Devil said:
Ok fair enough, but thats a blog type entry, not exactly a 'news story'. I am not defending the CIA, or any other western intelligence organistation, but, you cannot make omlettes without breaking an egg.

The means by which people obtain information is always subject to scrutiny but its a necessary part of interrogation in some respects. you do not get information, necessary to saving a life or several hundred, by offering a terrorist a cup of tea and a doughnut, do you?

A person may give vital information to an agent, and then retract it saying he was beaten and tortured. Personally I place a bit more faith in the CIA, or MI6 or whoever than the bastard trying to bomb me. He who lives by the sword etc etc.
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Nor is this discussion even about that. I simply used it as a counter example to a claim.
 
Red Devil said:
Ok fair enough, but thats a blog type entry, not exactly a 'news story'. I am not defending the CIA, or any other western intelligence organistation, but, you cannot make omlettes without breaking an egg.

The means by which people obtain information is always subject to scrutiny but its a necessary part of interrogation in some respects. you do not get information, necessary to saving a life or several hundred, by offering a terrorist a cup of tea and a doughnut, do you?

A person may give vital information to an agent, and then retract it saying he was beaten and tortured. Personally I place a bit more faith in the CIA, or MI6 or whoever than the bastard trying to bomb me. He who lives by the sword etc etc.
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If the US govt didn't insist on torturing and murdering the Haj after they ripped Saddam's head off for doing...just that, maybe the brothers of said victims wouldn't feel so much like visiting some of the same on the purps..
 
Red Devil said:
I am sorry, I do not believe that, in this day and age of internet etc, the US would do that - it would cause governments to fall.
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If torture, rendition, detention without trail, authorizing assassination, subversion, etc. (all on the public record) do not cause governments to fail, what does?
 
hypewaders said:
What interesting times we live in. When in human history have we experienced comparable global, macropsychological shockwaves concerning the concepts of truth and accountability. Bring it!
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Indeed! The heretic Assange should be burnt at the stake of truth and accountability! Nobody expects the Spanish American Inquisition. :m:
 
theories, like the writing of history, is simply a persons opinion, and have little basis in fact, hence a theory.
 
countezero said:
Um, Rand would have nothing like that. And it would probably be illegal if they did. I'm working with them on a project right now. It's a bunch of Phd's with bad office space done up in purple and white.
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I'm not even going to query that or mention a hypothesis involving how John Nash might have been on the receiving end of BCI equipment during the Coldwar. I mean it would be completely scifi wouldn't it...
 
StrawDog said:
Indeed! The heretic Assange should be burnt at the stake of truth and accountability! Nobody expects the Spanish American Inquisition. :m:
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He seems a reluctant martyr. But maybe the experience will be purifying. Gud är Stor.

It's better than being found dead of an "accident" in Battersea Park.
 
StrawDog said:
If torture, rendition, detention without trail, authorizing assassination, subversion, etc. (all on the public record) do not cause governments to fail, what does?
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Why would those things cause governments to fail? They've been totally commonplace features of governments for all of human history.
 
quadraphonics said:
Why would those things cause governments to fail? They've been totally commonplace features of governments for all of human history.
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So then we should aspire to loftier ideals no?
By dribs and drabs, shards of truth will get out. But the world’s journalists – and those persons of conscience working in the world’s governments – have been given a hard, harsh, unmistakable lesson in the new realities of our degraded time. Tell a truth that discomforts power, that challenges its domination over our lives, our discourse, our very thoughts, and you will be destroyed. No institution, public or private, will stand with you; the most powerful entities, public and private, will be arrayed against you, backed up by overwhelming violent force. This is where we are now. This is what we are now.
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Kennyc said:
You certainly can when you are talking about the same responsible parties. :D
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Sure. You can. It's just that nobody will take you seriously.

Stryder said:
I'm not even going to query that or mention a hypothesis involving how John Nash might have been on the receiving end of BCI equipment during the Coldwar. I mean it would be completely scifi wouldn't it...
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Yes, it would.
 
Glen Greenwald in interview with Amy Goodman

Well, I just want to underscore how alarming everything is that you just described, both in that report and in your earlier one, which is, whatever you think of WikiLeaks, they've never been charged with a crime, let alone indicted or convicted. And yet, look at what has happened to them. They've been essentially removed from the internet, not just through a denial of service attacks that are very sophisticated, but through political pressure applied to numerous countries. Their funds have been frozen, including funds donated by people around the world for his - for Julian Assange's defense fund and for WikiLeaks's defense fund. They've had their access to all kinds of accounts cut off. Leading politicians and media figures have called for their assassination, their murder, to be labeled a terrorist organization. What's really going on here is a war over control of the internet and whether or not the internet can actually serve what a lot of people hoped its ultimate purpose was, which was to allow citizens to band together and democratize the checks on the world's most powerful factions. That's what this really is about. It's why you see Western government, totally lawlessly, waging what can only be described as a war on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange outside the bounds of any constraints, because that's what really is at stake here. If they want to prosecute them, they should go to court and do it through legal means. But this extralegal persecution ought to be very alarming to every citizen in every one of these countries, because it essentially is pure authoritarianism and is designed to prevent the internet from being used as its ultimate promise, which is providing a check on unconstrained political power.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/370-wikileaks/4183-glenn-greenwald-qwar-on-wikileaksq
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Good points all
 
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