New Wikileaks Dump is Unconscionable

[Stryder]

I believe we are witnessing the first true cyberwar.

Not between nations, we've seen that, but between ideologies.

It may be that Julian Assange is the face of the revolution.

No offense to Assange, but couldn't we have a pretty girl's face for the revolution, the last thing I want is Assange al a Che T-Shirt, could just go with the "I'm with stoopid" revolution instead (who's stoopid, is totally up to you to decide... we could point at the coldwar enthusiasts that fund all this spy crap in the first place.).

 

[ULTRA]

Imo Assange will be found guilty and get 30 years. I believe in freedom, free speech and democracy, and believe Assange has exposed the double-standards and hipocracy of the nameless faceless incompetents that allegedly do what they do in our name. If He can get hold of these cables, then you can be assured our enemies already had them a long time ago. Maybe the west, the US in particular will now have to conduct business honourably. If this is the net result, then I applaud Assagne.

 

[Kennyc]

No offense to Assange, but couldn't we have a pretty girl's face for the revolution, the last thing I want is Assange al a Che T-Shirt, could just go with the "I'm with stoopid" revolution instead (who's stoopid, is totally up to you to decide... we could point at the coldwar enthusiasts that fund all this spy crap in the first place.).

Can't fault you for that.

 

[Kennyc]

Imo Assange will be found guilty and get 30 years. I believe in freedom, free speech and democracy, and believe Assange has exposed the double-standards and hipocracy of the nameless faceless incompetents that allegedly do what they do in our name. If He can get hold of these cables, then you can be assured our enemies already had them a long time ago. Maybe the west, the US in particular will now have to conduct business honourably. If this is the net result, then I applaud Assagne.

I don't know what going to happen to him personally, but I think there will be a two-pronged result. One that the people will demand (at least for some amount of time) more openness in government and the government will make their communications ever more restricted/secret - thus furthering the divide.

 

[countezero]

Irrelevant. The point is proven.

The point is not proven. You can't just say something and say it's proven.

I believe we are witnessing the first true cyberwar.

Not between nations, we've seen that, but between ideologies.

It may be that Julian Assange is the face of the revolution.

You people have seriously seen the Matrix too many times...

 

[ULTRA]

I don't know what going to happen to him personally, but I think there will be a two-pronged result. One that the people will demand (at least for some amount of time) more openness in government and the government will make their communications ever more restricted/secret - thus furthering the divide.

If Assanges' actions cause even more secrecy then he, to all intents and purposes, has failed in his ideological war. We shoud not shoot the messenger, rather clean up the festering sore that is US foreign policy and start again afresh. This should be seen as a golden opportunity to advance the national interest in ways that truly benefit the west, and the US in particular.
If the US political machine was not caught out in this way, it would have no incentive to reform. All we see is indignant embarrasmet, and rightly so. The US has embarrased itself. Time to start afresh and reap the rewards of honest dealing I think.

 

[quadraphonics]

We shoud not shoot the messenger

Nor should we lionize him. If we aren't to blame Assange when information we don't want to see leaked gets leaked, then we likewise shouldn't thank him when information we want to see leaked gets leaked. Assange, and Wikileaks, are simply a clearing house for other leakers - they don't actually "leak" anything, because they don't have access to any privileged information to begin with. Wikileaks is a diversion - if they didn't exist, some other body would respond to the same demand. Likewise, their existance (or not) has little bearing on the prospects for actual leaks to occur (or not). The question of what will get leaked and what won't is a question of how state organs will police their own employees, and not what Wikileaks will or won't do with any information provided to them by said employees.

 

[Kennyc]

If Assanges' actions cause even more secrecy then he, to all intents and purposes, has failed in his ideological war. We shoud not shoot the messenger, rather clean up the festering sore that is US foreign policy and start again afresh. This should be seen as a golden opportunity to advance the national interest in ways that truly benefit the west, and the US in particular.
If the US political machine was not caught out in this way, it would have no incentive to reform. All we see is indignant embarrasmet, and rightly so. The US has embarrased itself. Time to start afresh and reap the rewards of honest dealing I think.

Don't get me wrong. I agree. I would prefer to see it much more open and transparent. (and less government in general)

 

[ULTRA]

Nor should we lionize him. If we aren't to blame Assange when information we don't want to see leaked gets leaked, then we likewise shouldn't thank him when information we want to see leaked gets leaked. Assange, and Wikileaks, are simply a clearing house for other leakers - they don't actually "leak" anything, because they don't have access to any privileged information to begin with. Wikileaks is a diversion - if they didn't exist, some other body would respond to the same demand. Likewise, their existance (or not) has little bearing on the prospects for actual leaks to occur (or not). The question of what will get leaked and what won't is a question of how state organs will police their own employees, and not what Wikileaks will or won't do with any information provided to them by said employees.

Indeed. He is no modern-day hero. But I think this thing is bigger than Assagne alone. He will be made the scapegoat to assuage the embarrasment of the US in particular, but I fear a miscarriage of justice is a very real possibility.

 

[Stryder]

Imo Assange will be found guilty and get 30 years. I believe in freedom, free speech and democracy, and believe Assange has exposed the double-standards and hipocracy of the nameless faceless incompetents that allegedly do what they do in our name. If He can get hold of these cables, then you can be assured our enemies already had them a long time ago. Maybe the west, the US in particular will now have to conduct business honourably. If this is the net result, then I applaud Assagne.

To be perfectly honest having a "Open" drop system for "leaked" data is in the interest of all countries. Like you mention leaks might not get spotted otherwise until it's too late, at least when a leak breaks you can have someone ready for damage control because it appears to the "enemy" at the same time the leak appears to you.

In some respects this whole "Coup De Intelligence" (Feel free linguists to alter it.) is a bit like the start of the Berlin Wall coming down, if it keeps up the entire system is going to have to get use to a new wave of thinking.

 

[StrawDog]

In some respects this whole "Coup De Intelligence" (Feel free linguists to alter it.) is a bit like the start of the Berlin Wall coming down, if it keeps up the entire system is going to have to get use to a new wave of thinking.

Yes, what is up for metamorphosis is the notion and definition of freedom of information. It can go either way. :m:

 

[Bells]

That's true. It's also true that it's very obvious that they have committed espionage, and are brazenly bragging about it.



I say, so what? This happens to terrorist web sites and illegal piracy databases all the time. Hosters and governments have choices about what to ban and what to allow and they've chosen to take this down. I have no problem with that, and it's not the message isn't out and getting out. The papers are printing this stuff on their home pages.



Again, funds are frozen all the time. It's the banks and the government's decision. They made a choice.



The people doing that are idiots in search of headlines. I don't agree with their calls, nor do I agree with it being covered. It's stupid.



I've seen nothing extralegal.

Maybe if America did not want its childish diplomatic cables getting out, they should make sure the content to such cables are secure and not able to be downloaded by an employee (one of between 2 and 3 million people who had access to all the cables) miming to Lady Gaga over a period of 8 months.

Assange is not at fault for the information getting out. America is at fault for bad security.

He will get the support he needs from his home country. He has not done anything wrong and has broken no laws. The US's threats to change the law to charge him show how little the US values true democracy.

From two former Australian Prime Ministers:

Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd says the United States, not WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, is to blame for the release of secret diplomatic cables.

Mr Rudd says the 39-year-old Australian cannot be held personally responsible for the release of more than 250,000 documents.

He says the leaks raise questions about the adequacy of US security.

"Mr Assange is not himself responsible for the unauthorised release of 250,000 documents from the US diplomatic communications network," said Mr Rudd, who has been criticised in one leaked cable as a "control freak".

"The Americans are responsible for that."

Mr Rudd appears to be in agreement with former prime minister John Howard, who earlier today said Mr Assange had not done anything wrong by publishing cables that contained "frank commentary".

"Any journalist will publish confidential information if he or she gets hold of it, subject only to compelling national security interests," Mr Howard said.

"The issue is whether any of this material and the publication of it will endanger people's lives or endanger individual countries.

"The bad people in this little exercise are the people who gave the information to him, because they're the people who breached the trust.

"They deserve to be chased and prosecuted."

(Source)

He was not the spy. He was not the individual who stole the information from the US Government computers. He is like a journalist who publishes the information he receives. The actions of the US in attempting to charge him with espionage is a load of shite.

The US Justice Department has been preparing an indictment plan in the hope of charging the Townsville-born Mr Assange under the 1917 Espionage Act, branding his actions "the most serious violation of the Espionage Act in our history".

"It sure looks to me that Assange and WikiLeaks have violated the Espionage Act," the US Senate's homeland security committee chief Joe Lieberman said after Mr Assange's arrest in London.


Washington DC State Department spokesman Philip Crowley also said: "What WikiLeaks has done is a crime under US law."

(Source)

None of whom seem to know exactly which laws he has supposedly broken. Just some vague mention of laws being broken. But not exactly which laws. Again, it seems to be a load of BS.

This is why our AG made a mention that he should return to Australia as he would not be handed over to the US if they can't even show what laws he had broken. If he is extradited to Sweden, they may bow to US pressure to hand him over for them to then possibly change their laws to charge him. And the US dares to declare itself as leaders of the democratic and free world? Hysterically funny at best.

His charge of rape in Sweden also appears to be completely baseless. His arrest was wholly political and we all know it.

 

[nirakar]

Wikileaks is a diversion - if they didn't exist, some other body would respond to the same demand.

This may be true. Or it may not be true. So much of the media seems to be cooperative with the governments.

Nothing equivalent to Wikileaks existed before WikiLeaks or exists yet other than WikiLeaks.

I can't tell how hard the governments are trying to destroy WikiLeaks but if they really want to destroy WikiLeaks then they must not think WikiLeaks is easily replaceable.

 

[Kennyc]

This may be true. Or it may not be true. So much of the media seems to be cooperative with the governments.

Nothing equivalent to Wikileaks existed before WikiLeaks or exists yet other than WikiLeaks.

I can't tell how hard the governments are trying to destroy WikiLeaks but if they really want to destroy WikiLeaks then they must not think WikiLeaks is easily replaceable.

Just look back to "The Pentagon Papers" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Papers

 

[hypewaders]

Moderator Note: These are two comments I'm tossing in from a closed thread.

Re: WikiLeaks

The only leaks I heard about were Google News headlines... don't see me sorting through 250,000 documents that are 99% worthless information.

So what if some behind-the-scenes stuff got out- we're America after all- our F-16's insure our political correctness anyway.

I would like to see two things- I would like to see all that has been released. After all, it's out there.

Second, I would like the government to figure out the leak is coming from and fucking plug it up!

As long as there are people polarized along the democrats and republicans, it is very difficult to plug the leaks. It is not just one lone person, it is half the f*ing army.

 

[Stryder]

Just look back to "The Pentagon Papers" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Papers

Most of the leaked data is like the Left hand doing one thing and the Right hand not knowing about it. Espionage for years has used trickery and deceit to manipulate the perception of countries and world leaders alike, that's even established with the recent Operation Mincemeat book release.

The governments should realise the simplest method to deal with the leaks, is just to increase the number of them be they true or false. Then it's up to the readers to try and disassimilate as to whether the Super-secret leaked data is real or not.

So output some portfolios on dealing with Martian Culture etc.

 

[Stryder]

Funny enough Anonymous has a Botnet tool that any layperson can download to be apart of their attacks.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Anonymous-DDoS-Tool-Gets-Botnet-Capabilities-158163.shtml

(This isn't a link to the tool, just an article on what the tool does)

The reason why it's "funny" is it's exactly the sort of tool that I "Consulted" about approximately 5-6 years ago in regards to attacks. Although this particular version is "primitive" compared to the the Hypothetical "Community Attack" tool.

 

[hypewaders]

I find some aspects of hacker culture unfortunate company in resisting information crackdowns, and supporting WikiLeaks. As some activists have turned to attacking government and corporate websites in retaliation for suppression of Wikileaks, I have doubts that hacktivists are contributing to the cause of information freedom.

I have doubts that infowar is productive in advancing greater accountability in our institutions. This is reminiscent of my bitter disappointment at Truthers muddying the waters in examination of 9/11/2001, and anarchists railing against corporate power. Governments have long used the fringes to stigmatize and stifle all dissent as whacko hooliganism.

The mainstream still has much to learn about the issues. Corrupt establishments are eager to shape perceptions of populations that are only beginning to seriously consider the meaning and implications of information freedom in a still-dawning information age. If the powers that be can convince majorities that the resistance is more volatile, reactionary, and self-absorbed than governments who have been caught out concealing their policies and actions, then transparency and accountability in our public and corporate institutions is not likely to be advanced by the present spectacles associated with WikiLeaks.

Hackers attacking WikiLeaks antagonists in cyberspace may not be striking blows for freedom, even if that is what they believe as they throw bricks through cyberspace windows. I am concerned that they may be fatefully distracting from and confusing the debate out in the deeper and wider network and battlefield of human awareness.

 

[Stryder]

Some time back I mentioned this, but what if people could "Naturalise" to the state of "Internet". Namely become an Internet Citizen, a denizen of the world wide web, DECLARE the Internet a "NATION". No governments as such but the potential for entire policy driven systems to emerge in this "Forum" (In this instance I don't mean Sciforums, I'm actually referring to the internet as a whole)

All this would require is the capacity to be seen as an Independent and Neutral State, who's people are obviously currently displaced for the absence of actual lands to live on.

Such independence would alter the methods that are required in dealing with Governments, as activities do not have to appear criminal.

 

[hypewaders]

Some time back I mentioned this, but what if people could "Naturalise" to the state of "Internet". Namely become an Internet Citizen, a denizen of the world wide web, DECLARE the Internet a "NATION". No governments as such but the potential for entire policy driven systems to emerge in this "Forum" (In this instance I don't mean Sciforums, I'm actually referring to the internet as a whole)

All this would require is the capacity to be seen as an Independent and Neutral State, who's people are obviously currently displaced for the absence of actual lands to live on.

Such independence would alter the methods that are required in dealing with Governments, as activities do not have to appear criminal.

Pre-Singularity, our consciousnesses are bound by flesh and blood, and all our physical imperatives. Notions of escaping this plane of existence through the internet are (how to say? gotta go take care of offline imperatives, no time to find the words) premature.