New, Improved Obamacare Program Released On 35 Floppy Disks

[Michael]

This reminds me of a medical doctor in outback NSW who dosed his elderly patient with so much anesthetic it put him out for 3 days. Of course, as a new MD (with little chemistry experience) he apparently didn't recognize the magnitude difference between micro and milli. Anyway, so he doesn't tell anyone and (while probably shitting his pants) prayed the the Gods he never believed hoping his patient would come to. Luckily he did. In the mean time he convinced (I suppose) everyone in this small clinic he had everything under control and this was all perfectly normal.

I wonder, what would he have done had that old man died? Made up more lies or confessed his total incompetence?

Most of you have no clue as to how little the new MD understands. Years of Government MCQ tests have assured us one thing - we get students good at reading powerpoint slides, regurgitating wrote memorized facts (well, memorized for a limited time) who are often somewhat neurotic - as evidenced by their ability to pass these senseless State tests.

Don't worry, you'll see.

 

[joepistole]

So people shouldn't get healthcare because a rookie physician in the outback screwed up?

 

[Michael]

So people shouldn't get healthcare because a rookie physician in the outback screwed up?

No Joe, people should be FREE to trade with one another using sound money, law and property rights. As it stands, the State 'regulates' who can and who can not trade with one another and so now we have a screwed up system where millions and millions of children endure 12 years of an unsound Government School in competition for the State limited (not market driven) spots for a State's Licence in the AMA's regulatory-captured disease care markets where EVERY YEAR an equivalent to the entire population of Atalanta is killed by their healthcare. Imagine this year a nuke was dropped on Atlanta, next year Miami, the next half of Chicago is wiped out - and on wards for decades this continues. THAT'S the number of people being KILLED by the Fascistic disease-care system we are trapped inside of.

You want to know what's funny. Amoorikkkans are 'FREE' to leave their Tax-Pen and have an operation in Mexico of cosmetic surgery in Korea or even go to Somalia and take their chances with a witch doctor - but inside their Farmer's Tax Pen - NO F*CKING WAY. They are Tax Chattel. Not free to do anything their Farmer's decided they shouldn't do.

Land of the Free.... what a f*cking joke. The USSA has more Laws and Regulations compared with ANY other nation, anywhere, in the history of humanity.

 

[joepistole]

No Joe, people should be FREE to trade with one another using sound money, law and property rights. As it stands, the State 'regulates' who can and who can not trade with one another and so now we have a screwed up system where millions and millions of children endure 12 years of an unsound Government School in competition for the State limited (not market driven) spots for a State's Licence in the AMA's regulatory-captured disease care markets where EVERY YEAR an equivalent to the entire population of Atalanta is killed by their healthcare. Imagine this year a nuke was dropped on Atlanta, next year Miami, the next half of Chicago is wiped out - and on wards for decades this continues. THAT'S the number of people being KILLED by the Fascistic disease-care system we are trapped inside of.

You are pulling number out of your derriere again Michael.

“In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for the Department of Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.” http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...ny-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals

And contributed, doesn’t mean caused. And the population of Atlanta is 455K, just a little difference from the number you used. Further you are not trapped. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. The bottom line which you have voiding for years now is, you don’t have a better healthcare system. You cannot point to a totally deregulated healthcare system in the world. In a world of more than 7 billion people you would think you could point to one successful example of a successful deregulated healthcare system if it worked as you say it does.

You want to know what's funny. Amoorikkkans are 'FREE' to leave their Tax-Pen and have an operation in Mexico of cosmetic surgery in Korea or even go to Somalia and take their chances with a witch doctor - but inside their Farmer's Tax Pen - NO F*CKING WAY. They are Tax Chattel. Not free to do anything their Farmer's decided they shouldn't do.

Land of the Free.... what a f*cking joke. The USSA has more Laws and Regulations compared with ANY other nation, anywhere, in the history of humanity.

Ok more you your typical anti-American rants.

 

[Michael]

“In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for the Department of Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.” http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...ny-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals

That's 200,000 through Medicare alone - guess what Joe, another 240,000 are killed off EACH YEAR by their medical "care".

Journal of Patient Safety:
September 2013 - Volume 9 - Issue 3 - p 122–128
doi: 10.1097/PTS.0b013e3182948a69

A New, Evidence-based Estimate of Patient Harms Associated with Hospital Care

Here's a fact Joe: Medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the United States. Dwarfing auto accidents, diabetes and everything else besides cancer and heart disease (most due to life style). As many as 440,000 American 'Citizens' are killed off by their healthcare. That's the city of Atlanta being nuked - each and every year. To put this number into perspective, there were a measly 11,000 firearm-related homicides in the US. Compare that number with the number of patients being killed due to medical error.

This is the inevitable outcome of State 'regulatory capture'. State licencing schemes has made the USA the most expensive place IN THE WORLD to buy healthcare. It's called rent-seeking. Worse still, thanks to the State allowing the AMA to capture Rx we get prisons filled with millions and millions of adults for the 'crime' of *GASP* smoking the very same weed many of the "Founding Fathers" grew and smoked. THAT'S how bass-arse-backwards the USSA has become. Thanks to Rx we pay more and get less than anyone. Thanks to the State - the number of fMRI per city is reduced. The number of Hospitals are regulated. The numbers of doctors are regulated. You could be on your death bed and refused life-saving medicine because the FDA needs another 15 years of data, even though you have 15 days to live. Hell, it's not even 'legal' in the "Land of the Free" to terminate your own life. Thanks to rent-seeking, millions and millions, billions of hours of productive study is squandered by students in inane attempts to jump over the AMA State licencing bar - even though the incompetence and poor quality of our "State Regulated"/rigged AMA certified practitioners is literally killing city-sized chunks of the population yearly.

This isn't complicated: Freedom to trade, Sound Money, Law, Private Property Rights. The U.S. Constitution was to LIMIT Government. Not turn it into a Nanny State. We live in a hyper-regulated tax pen and Disease Care is just one, of millions, of the examples of how the State destroys society. And why is this happening? Because Americans hate freedom and love being regulated. Why is that? Because they're trained across 12 years of Government School to BE the unquestioning functionally illiterate labor-hour cogs the State needs dependent on it and the Chain-Stores and Fast-Food outlets need to perform menial labor. And that's exactly what most have become.

 

[Michael]

Journal of Patient Safety:
September 2013 - Volume 9 - Issue 3 - p 122–128
doi: 10.1097/PTS.0b013e3182948a69

A New, Evidence-based Estimate of Patient Harms Associated with Hospital Care

Results: Using a weighted average of the 4 studies, a lower limit of 210,000 deaths per year was associated with preventable harm in hospitals. Given limitations in the search capability of the Global Trigger Tool and the incompleteness of medical records on which the Tool depends, the true number of premature deaths associated with preventable harm to patients was estimated at more than 400,000 per year. Serious harm seems to be 10- to 20-fold more common than lethal harm.

That's 4 - 8 MILLION Americans being seriously HARMED by their State-Regulated, State-Licensed, State-Limited, State-Rigged; Fascistic DiseaseCare.

Welcome to Crapitalism in the USSA

 

[joepistole]

That's 200,000 through Medicare alone - guess what Joe, another 240,000 are killed off EACH YEAR by their medical "care".

Journal of Patient Safety:
September 2013 - Volume 9 - Issue 3 - p 122–128
doi: 10.1097/PTS.0b013e3182948a69

A New, Evidence-based Estimate of Patient Harms Associated with Hospital Care

Here's a fact Joe: Medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the United States. Dwarfing auto accidents, diabetes and everything else besides cancer and heart disease (most due to life style). As many as 440,000 American 'Citizens' are killed off by their healthcare. That's the city of Atlanta being nuked - each and every year. To put this number into perspective, there were a measly 11,000 firearm-related homicides in the US. Compare that number with the number of patients being killed due to medical error.

This is the inevitable outcome of State 'regulatory capture'. State licencing schemes has made the USA the most expensive place IN THE WORLD to buy healthcare. It's called rent-seeking. Worse still, thanks to the State allowing the AMA to capture Rx we get prisons filled with millions and millions of adults for the 'crime' of *GASP* smoking the very same weed many of the "Founding Fathers" grew and smoked. THAT'S how bass-arse-backwards the USSA has become. Thanks to Rx we pay more and get less than anyone. Thanks to the State - the number of fMRI per city is reduced. The number of Hospitals are regulated. The numbers of doctors are regulated. You could be on your death bed and refused life-saving medicine because the FDA needs another 15 years of data, even though you have 15 days to live. Hell, it's not even 'legal' in the "Land of the Free" to terminate your own life. Thanks to rent-seeking, millions and millions, billions of hours of productive study is squandered by students in inane attempts to jump over the AMA State licencing bar - even though the incompetence and poor quality of our "State Regulated"/rigged AMA certified practitioners is literally killing city-sized chunks of the population yearly.

This isn't complicated: Freedom to trade, Sound Money, Law, Private Property Rights. The U.S. Constitution was to LIMIT Government. Not turn it into a Nanny State. We live in a hyper-regulated tax pen and Disease Care is just one, of millions, of the examples of how the State destroys society. And why is this happening? Because Americans hate freedom and love being regulated. Why is that? Because they're trained across 12 years of Government School to BE the unquestioning functionally illiterate labor-hour cogs the State needs dependent on it and the Chain-Stores and Fast-Food outlets need to perform menial labor. And that's exactly what most have become.

You are playing fast and lose with the facts again, conflating "contributing" with actually causing death and you are equating "harmed" with death. They are not the same. Medical errors are a problem. I'll grant you that. But you are over stating for dramatic effect. The material I previously cited put the error rate at 1.4%. What is needed is a virtual defect free system, a 6 sigma system. But you cannot achieve that kind of quality without regulation. A 6 sigma error rate
Is .00034.

And you still cannot cite even one example of a sucessful deregulated modern healthcare system.

 

[Michael]

Bloomberg: California Health Insurance Rates Rise Up to 88% in 2014

Health-care insurance premiums for individuals in California rose between 22 percent and 88 percent in 2014 from last year, even after the federal health-care overhaul, the state’s insurance commissioner said. The rate increases, with variation for geography and age, were masked by federal subsidies that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act provides to 88 percent of the 1.4 million Californians who purchased health care through the state’s exchange, Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones said.

Jones, a Democrat, is pushing a statewide ballot measure for November known as Proposition 45 that would give him regulatory say on proposed premium increases. The measure is opposed by insurance companies, which have said that it would actually cause rates to rise while harming the quality of care. “Unless Proposition 45 is passed or some other law is enacted to provide health-insurance rate regulation and the requirement that health insurers and HMOs justify their rates, we are going to continue to see dramatic year-over-year increases,” Jones said in a telephone briefing with reporters.

Expect to pay a lot more, and to eventually be killed off by your health 'care'.



Americans whined and whined and whined that they needed Nanny State to babysit them. To regulate them.
Well, this is what it's like to be babysat by State Psychopaths.
Do enjoy.

 

[Michael]

You are playing fast and lose with the facts again, conflating "contributing" with actually causing death and you are equating "harmed" with death. They are not the same. Medical errors are a problem. I'll grant you that. But you are over stating for dramatic effect.

What are you missing? Deaths due to medical error result in around the population of Atlanta being DEAD each YEAR. It's pretty simple. But don't worry. We're going to get more deaths, not less - more. We'll also lose more civil liberties. Not gain, we'll lose them. It's called the end product of marrying Progressive Socialism with State Fascism. Everything ends up looking just like Detroit, healthcare, education, prisons, everything - all of it. The solution is simple: Freedom to trade, sound money, law and property rights. Everything postmodern America hates.

Journal of Patient Safety:
September 2013 - Volume 9 - Issue 3 - p 122–128
doi: 10.1097/PTS.0b013e3182948a69

A New, Evidence-based Estimate of Patient Harms Associated with Hospital Care

Results: Using a weighted average of the 4 studies, a lower limit of 210,000 deaths per year was associated with preventable harm in hospitals. Given limitations in the search capability of the Global Trigger Tool and the incompleteness of medical records on which the Tool depends, the true number of premature deaths associated with preventable harm to patients was estimated at more than 400,000 per year. Serious harm seems to be 10- to 20-fold more common than lethal harm.

 

[Michael]

And you still cannot cite even one example of a sucessful deregulated modern healthcare system.

At one time no one could 'name' a successful European country that didn't have a Monarch. At one time no one could name a successful 'modern' country that allowed women to vote. Or allowed freedom from Religion. And etc...

It's people like you that drag society into the mud, because there can be no progress without change - and that's the LAST thing you want. No one can 'name anything new' until it happens Joe. It's why your 'argument' is an illogical fallacy.


Also, we live in the postmodern world, and have for nearly a century.

 

[iceaura]

Here's a fact Joe: Medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the United States.

That's because we have reached such a high level of medical competence that almost nothing else can kill us.

You have a dementia ridden 85 year old cancer patient on a regimen of drugs and operations and procedures that require a laptop to even keep track of, seven years into it some sleep--deprived nurse in an HMO managed care facility fat fingers the keyboard that measures a dose and they die, and that's "cause of death: medical error".

Meanwhile, there are dozens of medical care systems that show lower rates of accidental kill via medical error - but they are all socialized medicine of some kind.

 

[joepistole]

That's because we have reached such a high level of medical competence that almost nothing else can kill us.

You have a dementia ridden 85 year old cancer patient on a regimen of drugs and operations and procedures that require a laptop to even keep track of, seven years into it some sleep--deprived nurse in an HMO managed care facility fat fingers the keyboard that measures a dose and they die, and that's "cause of death: medical error".

Meanwhile, there are dozens of medical care systems that show lower rates of accidental kill via medical error - but they are all socialized medicine of some kind.

Now of those dozens or so medical systems, how many are completely unregulated as you advocate? None

Additionally, all these errors you are referencing preceded Obama care.

 

[madanthonywayne]

Obamacare more unpopular than ever:

 

[joepistole]

Obamacare more unpopular than ever:

Here is the part you left out:

"Share of Americans With An Unfavorable View of the Affordable Care Act Rises in July; Majority Continues To Want Congress To Improve, Not Repeal, The Law" http://kff.org/tag/tracking-poll/

 

[joepistole]

Bloomberg: California Health Insurance Rates Rise Up to 88% in 2014

Expect to pay a lot more, and to eventually be killed off by your health 'care'.

Americans whined and whined and whined that they needed Nanny State to babysit them. To regulate them.
Well, this is what it's like to be babysat by State Psychopaths.
Do enjoy.

It's too bad you didn't read the part in your article which said those numbers were "misleading". I suggest you read beyond the headline and read all of the article you cited.

“The insurance commissioner is using this misleading report to promote a ballot measure that would give him vast new powers over health care decisions,” said Robin Swanson, a spokeswoman for the campaign against the initiative, Californians Against Higher Health Care Costs. “Our coalition of doctors, nurses, labor unions and health care providers opposing the measure thinks that giving one politician the power to override decisions made by the state’s successful health exchange is the wrong approach to controlling costs.”

And then for some real and honest information read the following from the Kaiser Foundation. Insurance premiums are expected to rise next year as they always do but only by 4.2% which is much better than the double digit increases Californians have come to expect.


"By Lisa Aliferis, KQED

Aug 01, 2014


This story is part of a partnership that includes KQED, NPR and Kaiser Health News. It can be republished for free. (details)


After years of double-digit rate hikes in health insurance premiums, California will see average increases of 4.2 percent in 2015 for people who purchase insurance through the Covered California exchange, the state's Obamacare marketplace." http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Sto...qzi9jqTBV9yDWPSyRkUEZp9oid3fzg&_hsmi=13662365

 

[Michael]

California's DEMOCRAT Insurance Commissioner admits 'Affordable Care' costs 55% more

Facing political shock and awe as ten million working Californians are soon to get notices of big insurance premium increases for next year, Democrat Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones admitted July 29th that rates for individuals that enrolled in Covered California jumped by an average of 55% last year.

Patrick Johnston, Chief Executive Officer of the California Association of Health Plans, said last year just before the launch of Covered California, “The arithmetic is inescapable.” Costs must be spread, so while some consumers will see their premiums drop, others will pay more – “no matter what people in Washington say.”

After two years of swearing that Covered California would save money for working state residents, Insurance Commissioner Jones in a news conference said, “The rate increase from 2013 to 2014, on average, was significantly higher than rate increases in the past.” He eventually got around to admitting that "significantly higher" meant average healthcare insurance premium increases of 22% to 88%.
Jones also admitted for the first time that Covered California health insurance premium increases were the most punishing for young people in Los Angeles County age 25. The Commissioner stated rates jumped for the middle-of-road “silver plan” coverage by 52% for the young versus 38% more for the same plan for someone age 55.

The biggest contributor to this cost increase appears to be those paying for health insurance to subsidize the 1.5 million increase in the state’s Medi-Cal enrollment to 8.6 million or 22% of the entire population of the State of California.

 

[Michael]

I actually look at DieaseCare from this point of view.

Which is a better society?
Socialized Healthcare (this is what Australia, Europe and the Japanese do).
Fascist Healthcare (this is what we do)
Free-market Healthcare (this is what we used to do).

How is Socialism working out for Europe? Well, the Southern EU States are going broke. The northern EU States complain the multicultural society doesn't work so well (see BBC: Merkel says German multicultural society has failed). Interestingly, there are sever limitation regarding being a slum lord in Germany - it's part of the "Socialism" pact. Same thing in Japan. The Japanese greatly frown upon slum-lordism - which is considered despicable. Most Japanese never rent, they live at home, save, buy an apt or house. Japan is pretty much monocultureal. So, socialism works (somewhat) there.

Here's a little window into "Japaneses" psyche. Top Japanese Scientist Who Co-Authored Discredited Stem-Cell Study Commits Suicide . Yoshiki Sasai was a brilliant Developmental Biology. He wouldn't have known, IF, his post-doc fabricated her data. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. While I'm sure he was greatly depressed, nevertheless, to Buddhist Japanese, committing suicide is still, in this day and age, considered a form of social absolution. Given HE was the team leader. I've heard Japanese bankers talk about NOT making profits for the shareholder (of course, they're then asked to shut up as that's an unwritten social pact the gaijin investors really don't need to worry about). And IMO socialism is killing off the Japanese population. Thank the Gods they haven't resorted to mass immigration like Australia.

To compare with the USSA. Think of Dick Weapons of Mass Distraction Cheney. He'd have did the right thing and killed himself LONG AGO. Obama's bundling of healthcare - that would have ended his career. Such nepotism wouldn't be tolerated (out in the open) and he'd have left disgraced.

We are not Scandinavians.
We are not Japanese.
We're not even Australian.

What works for them - is not going to work for us. What works for us is freedom. The ability to freely associate, exchange value for value, under a system of law that protects against fraud and upholds contract using sound money. Anything other than this will not provide us with high quality anything. Our healthcare will look just as bad as our Government Housing Slums, our Government Phony Wars, our Government Schools and the functional illiterate cogs they create, our FDA regulated and certified for consumption Pink Slime (which in Japan wouldn't even be fit for dogs).


But don't worry, we're not going to become freer. Nope. Amooorikkkan's hate freedom.
We're going to continue along with Fascism.
Thanks to Government Schooling, that's what we've become. And we most certainly not going to change - not in your lifetime. Americans are simply too stupid. Which is why we'll flag-wave for Obama as he expands NSA spying. Or flag wave for Hilary as if she's a "Feminist Progressive" (who just happened to marry a man who likes shoving cigars in his vulnerable female interns). Or flag wave Cheney and Junior as they lie us into a phony war that's probably killed millions of innocent women and children.

 

[joepistole]

California's DEMOCRAT Insurance Commissioner admits 'Affordable Care' costs 55% more

You don't get points for spamming your previously debunked specious posts.

 

[joepistole]

I actually look at DieaseCare from this point of view.

Which is a better society?
Socialized Healthcare (this is what Australia, Europe and the Japanese do).
Fascist Healthcare (this is what we do)
Free-market Healthcare (this is what we used to do).

How is Socialism working out for Europe? Well, the Southern EU States are going broke. The northern EU States complain the multicultural society doesn't work so well (see BBC: Merkel says German multicultural society has failed). Interestingly, there are sever limitation regarding being a slum lord in Germany - it's part of the "Socialism" pact. Same thing in Japan. The Japanese greatly frown upon slum-lordism - which is considered despicable. Most Japanese never rent, they live at home, save, buy an apt or house. Japan is pretty much monocultureal. So, socialism works (somewhat) there.

Here's a little window into "Japaneses" psyche. Top Japanese Scientist Who Co-Authored Discredited Stem-Cell Study Commits Suicide . Yoshiki Sasai was a brilliant Developmental Biology. He wouldn't have known, IF, his post-doc fabricated her data. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. While I'm sure he was greatly depressed, nevertheless, to Buddhist Japanese, committing suicide is still, in this day and age, considered a form of social absolution. Given HE was the team leader. I've heard Japanese bankers talk about NOT making profits for the shareholder (of course, they're then asked to shut up as that's an unwritten social pact the gaijin investors really don't need to worry about). And IMO socialism is killing off the Japanese population. Thank the Gods they haven't resorted to mass immigration like Australia.

To compare with the USSA. Think of Dick Weapons of Mass Distraction Cheney. He'd have did the right thing and killed himself LONG AGO. Obama's bundling of healthcare - that would have ended his career. Such nepotism wouldn't be tolerated (out in the open) and he'd have left disgraced.

We are not Scandinavians.
We are not Japanese.
We're not even Australian.

What works for them - is not going to work for us. What works for us is freedom. The ability to freely associate, exchange value for value, under a system of law that protects against fraud and upholds contract using sound money. Anything other than this will not provide us with high quality anything. Our healthcare will look just as bad as our Government Housing Slums, our Government Phony Wars, our Government Schools and the functional illiterate cogs they create, our FDA regulated and certified for consumption Pink Slime (which in Japan wouldn't even be fit for dogs).


But don't worry, we're not going to become freer. Nope. Amooorikkkan's hate freedom.
We're going to continue along with Fascism.
Thanks to Government Schooling, that's what we've become. And we most certainly not going to change - not in your lifetime. Americans are simply too stupid. Which is why we'll flag-wave for Obama as he expands NSA spying. Or flag wave for Hilary as if she's a "Feminist Progressive" (who just happened to marry a man who likes shoving cigars in his vulnerable female interns). Or flag wave Cheney and Junior as they lie us into a phony war that's probably killed millions of innocent women and children.

Ok, a dump of non sequiturs. And none of that changes the fact that you cannot cite a single instance of a better unregulated healthcare system.

 

[Michael]

Ok, a dump of non sequiturs. And none of that changes the fact that you cannot cite a single instance of a better unregulated healthcare system.

Joe, how many times do I have to state this, that is NOT an argument.

It's no different than a Slave owner asking an abolitionist to point to successful modern nation that doesn't practice Slavery. Or asking about a nation that allows women to vote prior to it being made legal. Or asking about a nation that doesn't have a King 300 years ago.

What don't you get?

Also, I already pointed out one: The USA circa 1900. The USA had perfectly fine healthcare and most Americans had affordable access to what was, at that time, the most modern medical treatments. In many ways it was BETTER then compared with now!

The FACT is 400,000+ Americans are killed by medical error each year and another 8 million seriously harmed by medical error. Medicine costs are outrageous. This isn't because we have 'free-markets' in medical care. It's because have HYPER regulatory-captured disease-care markets. Private medical fraternities which have used the State to ensure they're able to gain massively from rent-seeking to push up the price of healthcare, limit competition and taken together this has totally distorted our entire society. Everything from primary education to University medical research has been bent and distorted. AND all for what? A disease care system that delivers overpriced subpar quality disease care at an outrageous cost.



I have a question Joe, should American Citizens be free to leave the USA and seek unregulated medical care in a different country if they pay for it out of pocket?
Yes or No.