New, Improved Obamacare Program Released On 35 Floppy Disks

[Write4U]

Michael,
Here, this is simple. IF there really is a good or service people WANT then they'll pay for it when they use it.

And we come full circle about the difference between WANTING stuff (and having the ability to pay for it), and NEEDING healthcare (and not having the ability to pay for it). NEEDING healtcare is NOT A CHOICE, it is (or surely will be) a necessity for every human at some point in their life.

But you have all the answers, so I'll pose the question to you.

"If a person NEEDS healthcare service and does NOT have the money to pay for it, what is your solution?"

Simple question, no? You should have a workable solution at the ready. I am looking forward to it. Societies have struggled with that moral question for centuries. It might make you famous!!

And unless you can answer that question which is the topic of this discussion, I am not going to waste any more time on your rants from ignorance and unwillingness to learn from the links I have provided.

Be well, Michael, because (unless you are rich), under your economic system, if you were to get hurt or sick or old and needed medical care you'd be SOL.

 

[Michael]

And we come full circle about the difference between WANTING stuff (and having the ability to pay for it), and NEEDING healthcare (and not having the ability to pay for it). NEEDING healtcare is NOT A CHOICE, it is (or surely will be) a necessity for every human at some point in their life.

You mean like food? Or a house? Or clothing?

You do understand catastrophic insurance is the cheapest insurance. In a free market no one would have to worry about having some insurance. It's only in this fascistic market we have totally f*cked up overpriced healthcare. AND Dear Leader Obama just allowed little peon's like us to buy it. How lucky we are to have such a wonderful LEADER telling us what we can and can not do. Father of the Cuntry.

This is what you don't seem to get: The FREE Market is the most efficient at providing these things, and does do in abundance. So much so that people actually need to innovate to keep up with the market place. The reason why healthcare is expensive is because it's NOT a free market. It's a highly regulated market.

Part of being "FREE" means you take responsibility for your actions. But, it ALSO means keeping your nose out of other people's lives. While you may complain about the former, what gives you the right to do the later? If someone does not want healthcare insurance - that's their god damn business. If someone wants to smoke pot - that's their god damn business. If someone wants to see some crank up the road about buying some medicine he made in his garage - that's his business. If someone wants to ride their bike without a helmet *GASP* that's their business. Most Europeans are actually shocked at how little freedom Americans 'enjoy'. It's not the land of the free and home of the brave. The USSA is the farm of the tax cattle who are scared of their own shadow half the time.

Lastly, you have not stated WHERE does the $1 come from in your $0.25 cent letter delivery? This is why I said *magic thinking*. You seem to think, just because you voted for $0.25 cent letters, magically you're not going to pay. Well, you will pay. And it won't be $1 it will be $5 and you'll also loose both your civil liberties and work longer and harder for a lot less.

So? Where's the $1 come from?


It should be noted you have not explained why East Germany was poor and West Germany was rich. Why does Socialism economically fail to produce a prosperous society?

 

[Michael]

"If a person NEEDS healthcare service and does NOT have the money to pay for it, what is your solution?"

In a free market, healthcare would be relatively inexpensive. It's ridiculous a dog or cat can have complex surgery and cost 1/500th of what it would cost for a person.

So? What't the solution? Easy - take out a loan and repay it when you get well. You know, like how we do with our University, homes, cars, etc... Other solutions include charity, family support, etc....

These problems are NOT problems. As I stated catastrophic insurance is cheap. If this were a real problem, then another solution is to tie insurance to a credit card (which they do in Japan - it works out to $15-25 a month. As I stated, catastrophic insurance is relatively cheap - in a FREE MARKET they'd be much cheaper.). Another option is to tie it to a grocery card and make it mandatory to buy at a grocery store. IOWs, without the card, the store owner would refuse to voluntarily sell food to you until you became a member - that card would have the insurance in it.

There's a LOT of solutions SOCIETY can come up with - and the STATE will come up with NONE of these because the State doesn't understand the word "Voluntary"; the State only speaks in the language of Force.Which is why ObamaCare will use force against you if you don't pay the State. See how the State functions? It's inherently immoral. From the ground up. Baked in the cake.

 

[Write4U]

Quote Originally Posted by Write4U View Post
"If a person NEEDS healthcare service and does NOT have the money to pay for it, what is your solution?"

In a free market, healthcare would be relatively inexpensive. It's ridiculous a dog or cat can have complex surgery and cost 1/500th of what it would cost for a person.

That does not answer the question.

So? What't the solution? Easy - take out a loan and repay it when you get well. You know, like how we do with our University, homes, cars, etc... Other solutions include charity, family support, etc....

That does not answer the question.

These problems are NOT problems. As I stated catastrophic insurance is cheap. If this were a real problem, then another solution is to tie insurance to a credit card (which they do in Japan - it works out to $15-25 a month. As I stated, catastrophic insurance is relatively cheap - in a FREE MARKET they'd be much cheaper.). Another option is to tie it to a grocery card and make it mandatory to buy at a grocery store. IOWs, without the card, the store owner would refuse to voluntarily sell food to you until you became a member - that card would have the insurance in it.

That does not answer the question.

There's a LOT of solutions SOCIETY can come up with - and the STATE will come up with NONE of these because the State doesn't understand the word "Voluntary"; the State only speaks in the language of Force.Which is why ObamaCare will use force against you if you don't pay the State. See how the State functions? It's inherently immoral. From the ground up. Baked in the cake.

That does not answer the question.

You have just failed the simplest part of the question "how to provide healthcare to someone who needs it but is unable to pay for it".

But you are free to try again. I'll give you another chance, but try to answer the question as posed.

 

[joepistole]

No Joe. What Bernanke did was bail out the top 1% at the expense of the bottom 99%. The FACT is the Federal Reserve CAUSED the Global Financial Crises and now we have too much investment in areas like housing and not enough in areas like innovation and technology. The USA would have a better restructured economy had we let the bad banks fail - along with the crooks who run them.

The FACT is the Federal Reserve caused this mess just as it caused the Great Depression.

But don't worry, I'm sure some Progressive politician will run on a platform of taxing slum-lords and giving to the poor. How does a 90% tax on rent sound Joe? Sound pretty good to you? You DO care about the children don't you? You do? Good, then you'll be happy to pay a 90% tax on any rental income you've slummed out of the Projects.

As for the Federal Reserve, it will be lucky to make it another 25 years (probably more like 10 years). But don't think they're going to go down without a fight. And hey, who doesn't hate the Koch Brothers or a Slum-Lord? Easy pickings for politicians promising a fat 90% tax to bailout our lovely Federal Reserve who is just there trying to "help the poor". You like helping 'the Poor' don't you? And the Koch Brothers can buy friends in Washington.

In the end, Progressivism is a Cult - one that will kill and eat it's own. The word Progress is so blatantly obvious a sale-pitch. Hey, we're the "Progressives". Talk about child-like babble talk. Very few people would ever have the stomach to BE a politicians. Just having to talk to adult man-children with little catch phrases like "Progressive Liberal Agenda" would be enough to make any sane person barf. Sorry boys and girls, mommy needs to pass to Bill to read the Bill and see what's in it. Now run along and let the Progressive Liberal Agenda Save the Planet, the Children, the Panda and give you "FREE" healthcare and an ObamaPhone.

Not surprisingly Michael everything you wrote is counterfactual. None of it is true, not even the part about Obamaphone. It's actually Reaganphone. And none of this is new, your errors have been repeatedly proven umpteen times over the years. But you my friend are immune to truth and reason.

 

[Michael]

You have just failed the simplest part of the question "how to provide healthcare to someone who needs it but is unable to pay for it".

Maybe you need to go reread what I wrote: a loan, friends, family, community charity.

The number of people who die on Public Roads due to poor conditions today, are more than the number of people who are absolutely 100% never able to repay a loan and are so despised and hated that they have no friends or family and lives in such a distopian community that not a single person would give two f*cks enough to life a finger.

Particularly given the price of healthcare would be in some circumstances 1/1000th what it would cost now. Clear enough for you? Need me to spell it out one more time? Oh, and to give you an idea how much Americans give in charity, in 2012 over $300 BILLION. But hey, why use voluntarism when that means being a part of community and when you're a sociopath - that isn't going to work now is it?

 

[iceaura]

Maybe you need to go reread what I wrote: a loan, friends, family, community charity

Now you are channeling Mitt Romney - that was his solution to paying for college in a "free market" of education. Those remarks lost the election - when people realized what kind of world he lived in, and how disconnected it was from their physical reality.

No reality involved, in this world. Not even a hint of a recognition of what "community charity" looks like - in, say, Birmingham, Alabama, when you're black and have a husband with emphysema and two sick kids and will not earn enough in your remaining lifetime to pay for their medical care. The hospital will certainly take your word that people will loan you money in the future for the care you need now, right?

They won't. They can't - they have to pay their doctors, etc, and secondhand promises of loans made by the indigent will not cover the payroll.

Free market health care has never existed for anyone except the filthy rich, and cannot exist for the poor - it's structurally impossible, as with sewer systems and river navigation systems and air pollution control and children's education and so forth. There are reasons for this, covered in most elementary textbooks of economics, but they don't really matter if the simple physical realities are missing from one's world view.

Thing is, I agree with you about the bailout being a ripoff of the poor, about Romneycare being a ripoff of the poor, etc. But I can remember when those bankers, and those Romney supporters, and those ripoff artists in general, were talking just like you. It was when they wanted to be free of government regulation and imposition - freedom! But when the crunch came, they did not volunteer to take the bullet for freedom! And I don't think you, either, will resign yourself or your children or your family or your friends to misery and crippledom and death on the public street because your wallet is empty and your insurance does not cover you. You'll arrange a bailout - a ripoff - and that is what everyone else will do, and is doing. And that's how we ended up with a healthcare system that costs twice as much as anyone else's and delivers care ranked 34th in the world by objective measure - with less than half of us getting the level of health care automatically granted bums and drunks and homeless crackheads in every other first world country on this planet.

 

[Write4U]

Maybe you need to go reread what I wrote: a loan, friends, family, community charity.

Oh, I read your responses much closer than you read mine. But you are still not answering the question. I'll repeat it once more. "If you get sick and have no resources to pay for them what is your solution? Let them go to an ER (and have the State pay the bill (with a gun to your head) or shall we just let them die"?

The number of people who die on Public Roads due to poor conditions today, are more than the number of people who are absolutely 100% never able to repay a loan and are so despised and hated that they have no friends or family and lives in such a distopian community that not a single person would give two f*cks enough to life a finger.

And why are the Public Roads in such poor conditions? Again, there is that taxation with a gun to your head argument. And why are people who drive on public roads required to obtain Liability Insurance before they are legally allowed to drive on those roads to begin with? Should we do away with that preventive cost control of accidents? Should the State lower the speedlimits on public roads to reduce accidents? Oops, there is that gun again.

Particularly given the price of healthcare would be in some circumstances 1/1000th what it would cost now. Clear enough for you? Need me to spell it out one more time? Oh, and to give you an idea how much Americans give in charity, in 2012 over $300 BILLION. But hey, why use voluntarism when that means being a part of community and when you're a sociopath - that isn't going to work now is it?

Your reasoning is becoming ludicrous. You are pulling statistics out of nowhere (modesty prevents me from using the word that indicates a dark place in you lower back). 1/1000 cost reduction in healthcare services? You mean a $1200 ER bill would be reduced to $12?

And giving to charity is usually targeted to benefit the for profit corporation and is tax deductible so your argument of voluntarism is no different than paying taxes.

Here is a little info about your voluntarism

The latest update estimates that all but four of the 30 Fortune 500 companies that paid an average negative federal income tax rate from 2008 to 2010 continued to do so for 2011. Among the companies listed are Pepco Holdings and General Electric.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/repo...tive-average-federal-income/story?id=16111671

Full Definition of PROFIT

1: a valuable return : gain

2: the excess of returns over expenditure in a transaction or series of transactions; especially : the excess of the selling price of goods over their cost

3: net income usually for a given period of time

4: the ratio of profit for a given year to the amount of capital invested or to the value of sales

5: the compensation accruing to entrepreneurs for the assumption of risk in business enterprise as distinguished from wages or rent

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/profit

Making a profit on healthcare is putting a gun to the patient's head. You pay what we charge you or else you die.

 

[Michael]

Oh, I read your responses much closer than you read mine. But you are still not answering the question. I'll repeat it once more. "If you get sick and have no resources to pay for them what is your solution? Let them go to an ER (and have the State pay the bill (with a gun to your head) or shall we just let them die"?

Which of the following word don't you understand: Loan, Family, Friends, Community, Charity?

Is there something you are missing? Or let me guess, this person somehow magically pops out of the void in your fantasy land and is that 1 in billion that just so happens to have ZERO ability to offer ANYTHING of ANY value to ANYONE in society at all AND IS ALSO of low-standing and so despised by all members of society no one wants to voluntarily help them, not even charity (for example: a pedophile child rapist and murderer).

Well, as you well know, we live in a 'Republic' - you DO remember what a Republic IS don't you? Thus, if NO ONE wants to help this person - then they can not BE helped. For, in a Republic, we rule ourselves BY the WILL OF THE MAJORITY. Maybe you would prefer to live in a Dictatorship. I'm beginning to think so. Actually the truth is you're itching to steal from people around you. But that small bit of cognitive dissonance is still bothering you. Look: YOU are the problem. YOU are the one who wants to point the gun in other people's faces. YOU, not the rich, not the poor - YOU. You can not imagine a world where people work WITH one another, because you don't like people. You hate them. Therefor you can only imagine living in a world where the State uses force against the very people you claim to want to help, but in reality actually despise.

ONE MORE TIME: Loan, Family, Friends, Community, Charity.


But, get this, you don't have to worry. Everyone around you despises you as much as you despise them. They, similarly, can not imagine living in a world where people work together voluntarily and can only imagine a world where the State forces people into particular actions. AND, of course, such a society eventually turns into a shit hole. But, before that happens, long before that happens, ObamaCare will be as shit as public housing and as useless as public schooling. Thus is the price paid for resorting to rape, over love. Deal with it.

 

[Michael]

No reality involved, in this world. Not even a hint of a recognition of what "community charity" looks like - in, say, Birmingham, Alabama, when you're black and have a husband with emphysema and two sick kids and will not earn enough in your remaining lifetime to pay for their medical care. The hospital will certainly take your word that people will loan you money in the future for the care you need now, right?

You can take a good God damn look in the mirror for this mess. It's YOU people who made this world. You so-called "Progressives". You couldn't stand that a few people were getting rich and decided you'd 'redistribute' it all back to yourselves. But it didn't work out that way now did it? It worked out exactly the opposite. AND you couldn't stop there, you had to regulate ever single aspect of life, from toilet paper to marriage. You had to tax the laborer. You continue to set one foot in front of the other until now, in the year 2014, people living in the USSA, the so-called greatest nation on earth, can't earn enough to pay for emphysema treatment.

YOU did this. And you will continue to destroy society. It's what you do. You think rape is love. You literally live in bizaro-world where up is down and right is left.

Want to know what I find hilarious, and I like to mention this now and again. I mentioned about how the "Rich" back in the 1900s had these huge mansions over on Jekyll Island. AND you know the look I get, it's this "those greedy bastards look". Seriously, you can see how much they despise these so-called 'rich' and their mansions on their nearly-private island. Yet, a little later I will mention the $13 BILLION dollar aircraft carrier - and not a blink. Why? Or the $8.5 TRILLION wasted on the Wars. Not much of a peep. Why? Because they think these are "Public" goods and services. What a f*cking joke.

Something you may want to think about. Because "Public" healthcare is going to make a few people extremely rich. AND, I promise, you will NOT want to go to a Public Hospital in 25 years time.

I'd gladly take my chances with these so-called 'rich' in a FREE market, with sound money and law and property rights. Then they'd have to WORK for their money. Not now. Now they have the State their to ensure it's heads they win, tails we loose. But, we don't have to worry about living in a free society now do we? So, what we're going to see is the rich continue to get richer off the backs of the poor as the middle class joins the ranks of the poor. Then, in the next few decades, the landowners are going to be 'taxes' - heavily.

As for now, we have to live in the highly regulated world one where that black man, with emphysema, his kids are going to walk into a Public Hospital and they're going to be murdered by negligence. This IS going to happen. I don't have to wonder IF it will happen - it WILL happen. It's happening NOW. This is YOUR world. Lots of State, plenty of regulation and tax - and no freedom and soon no privacy either.

A progressives wet-dream.

I may have mentioned this, but I'll mention it again. Following a discussion regarding neuroanatomy, I specifically stated to a Professor these words: "You, or your loved ones, will be killed by this healthcare system". This is in one of those lovely "Public" healthcare system you each are clamoring to turn us in to. Sadly, his wife was misdiagnosed, and will die in the coming weeks. It won't stop with her. Not long after another person I know was almost killed. Luckily, she had a family rich enough to pay for private hospital care. If not, and without caring family and friends - she's possibly be dead as well. And guess what? She is IN the medical profession.

You people literally live in la la land.



We BOTH want people to have good heatlhcare. The difference is I understand this CAN only happen in a free-market with competition. You OTOH believe in the *magic* State-mother who's going to wave her magic wand and turn violent rape into voluntary love. Well, as I said to the Professor - you'll see.

 

[Michael]

Making a profit on healthcare is putting a gun to the patient's head. You pay what we charge you or else you die.

Maybe you should stop using the word profit as it's impairing your ability to think correctly. Profit occurs in the free-market. Healthcare, thanks to the likes of yourselves, is highly-regulated and is a non-free market. Thus, BY DEFINITION it's called Rent Seeking and should be properly referred to as SPOILS.

Blame yourself for the fact SPOILS are being taken off the sick and not PROFIT being made from offering valued service to the sick. This is your doing. You're the one that wants to hyper-regulate, tax the worker, force tax-payments to be made in USD, sell bonds on your children, support the fed and can only see a world that functions through violent redistribution and not voluntary interaction. This is your fault. Worse still - you want MORE regulation! Less Civil Liberties. Well I have news for you. You'll get your 'free' healthcare, and your children won't have to worry about having children of their own - they won't be able to afford it. They won't have to worry about having privacy either. All they'll have to worry about is testing into their State sanctioned highly regulated degree program, taking on a lot of debt to the banks, getting a State sanctions licence and then working at McDonald's. But hey, at least they can look forward to "FREE" healthcare in some run down derelict Public Hospital just as likely to kill them as cure them.

 

[Grumpy]

I think it's time for us to close the door in the face of Micheal's idiotic ranting and trolling. He offers no positive input, he can't even understand the meaning of words. He offers no intellectual argument of value, it's almost like he is trying to appear the political equivalent of a rabid dog(you can almost see the foam on his lips). I think it's time a mod should step up and do the Old Yeller thing, put him out of our misery, there's no value in prolonging his delusional ranting OR our suffering of fools.

Grumpy

 

[Michael]

He offers no intellectual argument of value, it's almost like he is trying to appear the political equivalent of a rabid dog

More simple minded sophism via an ad hominem. Sorry, but this isn't a counter argument. Of course, to do that you'd have to understand how an argument is structured. That would then require learning basic logic. Which would in turn demand you make snese of the squiggles - and that my deal Grumpy, is just one step too far now isn't it?




From: Rent-seeking

Rent-seeking is an attempt to obtain economic rent, (i.e., the portion of income paid to a factor of production in excess of that which is needed to keep it employed in its current use), by manipulating the social or political environment in which economic activities occur - rather than by creating new wealth. One example is spending money on political lobbying in order to be given a share of wealth that has already been created. A famous example of rent-seeking is the limiting of access to lucrative occupations, as by medieval guilds or modern state certifications and licensures (See: The American Medical Association and how they attempted to buy themselves a monopoly on Rx drugs - and somewhat were successful).

Many current studies of rent-seeking focus on efforts to capture various monopoly privileges stemming from government regulation of a market.
The term itself derives, however, from the far older practice of appropriating a portion of production by gaining ownership or control of land (AKA: Slum-Lord).

Given the literary abuse and misuse of the words free-market and profit, I think it'd be a little easier for those of your struggling with the squiggles to replace with the economic term rent-seeking and a nice bit of jargon, Spoils!!!(which fit together rather nicely).

Only the STATE has the legal recourse, through the militant arm of It's Federal Government, to regulate the market through the initiation of force against an innocent person. This is a simple legal fact and observation (See: Drug War as an example [thank the gods the AMA bought off Rx drugs - you know, for 'the good of society' and hey, 'yooz use da roads). Of course, this is what you want. You want you better to tell you what you can and can not do with yourself. Which is rather comical, given I'm one of those State certified Professionals who will be doing the telling - and you OTOH are one of those Peon's who will be doing the obeying. Ironic isn't it? That I'd be arguing for YOU to take back YOUR freedom and you'd be the one arguing for remaining a slave to your betters. Me.

Maybe that's fitting?

 

[Grumpy]

Michael

Understanding you is easy, your philosophy is just an attempt to justify your basic selfishness, irresponsibility and ignorance of what civilization consists of. You want freedom, but you're not willing to be required to pay anything for it, certainly not for anyone but you and yours. But you think you should then be allowed the benefits of the civilization everyone else payed for, anyway. You say that volunteerism will suffice, but history says your wrong. Capitalists don't voluntarily give money away, as our present(and past)history shows. Ayn Rand died on Social Security and Food Stamps, her selfish philosophy should have died with her. Only our civilization allows such idiotic drek to be taken seriously, you don't have to actually live with the mess it makes.

Grumpy

 

[Michael]

You want freedom, but you're not willing to be required to pay anything for it,

This oxymoron sentence - shows off your ignorance. A) Freedom is inherent in being human. No one has to PAY for their freedom. You are BORN free. B) Being 'required' to 'pay' for your freedom suggests you have no idea WHAT being 'free' means. C) The very word 'required' is an implicit reference to FORCE being used AGAINST an innocent person (which you probably like to refer to "FREE" humans as 'Citizens' - born in a geographical politically controlled area known as a State - and by birth owing the debts incurred by the other "Citizens", such as yourself) D) It's somewhat comical you use the word 'pay' given you have absolutely no idea WHAT 'money' actually is and are probably confusing it with debt-based 'currency' backed by 'fiat'/The State - or as Paul Krugman pointed out "Men with Guns". In short, you are pawn being used by the rich. They dangle some 'free' goodies in front of your nose, and like a donkey you walk in whatever direction they point. Such is the price of greed and immorality.


In Summery: You are sticking your grandchild with your healthcare bills. You should at least have the balls to admit to your thievery.

 

[Michael]

Ayn Rand died on Social Security

She paid into SSI - why wouldn't she claim what she had been force to pay for? As for food stamps - are you sure you're not doing a bit more lying? As for her philosophy, you're AGAIN not making an argument. You're just babbling.

Who cares what "Ayn Rand" thought or did not think? Aristotle may have believed in Gods - so what? His development of logic is one of the most important inventions and led the way to modern thought and civilization. Attacking Aristotle's belief in Gods and pretending this has anything to do with his ideas on Logic - is just babbling. This is what you do. You babble. You don't bother to read. You just babble. You look around for any scrap of information that supports your preconceived bias and then latch on to that and babble. And when you confronted with logic, you quickly turn to synthetic fallacies by the handful.

And as for "Civilization" - it's built ON Free-Trade. Resorting to State-Force is a RETURN TO THE JUNGLE. The State is a return to using a club and beating people over the head with it and dragging them back to your cave. The State is ANTI-Civilization. Which is why it must be wrapped in Patriotism and it's Tax Cattle taught to think of themselves in terms of Citizen.

From 5:05:
"I am against the Vietnam War, it's a useless and senseless War".


[video=youtube;LNTfuDkFTXo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNTfuDkFTXo[/video]



Compare with the millions of Americans who supported the Korean War (we lost), Vietnam War (we lost), Afghanistan War (we're losing) and Iraq War (we lost). You can denigrate Ayn Rand all you want - this isn't making a logical argument. Given the word Objectivism is just another squiggle, you resort to child-ish name calling. Literally. It's like a child on the play ground. If you want taken seriously, make a sound argument.

 

[Michael]

when you're black and have a husband with emphysema and two sick kids and will not earn enough in your remaining lifetime to pay for their medical care.

Firstly, why use the word 'black' in your argument? This is purely demagoguery. ALL PEOPLE have the SAME Civil Liberties in a FREE country.

Secondly, do you understand wealth is generated through FREE TRADE? If you want this man to have a healthy wealthy prosperous life, WHY are you forcing him to use fiat currency? Why are you forcing him to pay a tax on his labor to the State? Why are you regulating him OUT of the markets - preventing him from competition? Why do you support rent-seeking on the part of the AMA?

You are doing everything in your power to make this man a dependent on the State.


The Department of Education was created in 1979 and started working in 1980. It costs us tax-peons over $50 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. About $400 a family. Geee look at the wonderful outcomes all that money bought. NOTHING! We actually graduate functionally illiterates now! Want to know who doesn't waste their limited resources on a Federal boondoggle bureaucratic mess such as the Department of Education? Canada.

You THINK the Government is going to fix healthcare - it's the Government that destroyed healthcare. They've passed so many idiotic regulations and restricted the heatlhcare market to such an extent that insurance companies finally said enough - and did what any other rent-seeking American enterprise would do in modern day fascistic America. They turned to Government Force and *wa-la* out the system shat ObamaTurd. Welcome to life in the USSA where 'free' Citizens are told by their Nanny to wear the helmets, drink soda's that are a certain size and are forced to buy Private Healthcare insurance.

The ONLY thing I imagine that could possibly prevent this train wreck - is the internet and free-market technology. The LAST bit of freedom somewhat left (although the State is working through it's military arm and the NSA to destroy that as well), so that perhaps people will, through free communication, bypass the government altogether along with it's regulations. Perhaps AI like Watson will diagnose patients and private companies will sell genetic tests and DIY home kits and maybe this will force enough competition and best practice onto this rent-seeking industry.

Until then, just take a good look at cost/benefit ratio the Department of Education brought across 30 years - THAT'S the best case scenario, I expect much worse outcomes.

 

[Write4U]

This oxymoron sentence - shows off your ignorance. A) Freedom is inherent in being human. No one has to PAY for their freedom. You are BORN free. B) Being 'required' to 'pay' for your freedom suggests you have no idea WHAT being 'free' means. C) The very word 'required' is an implicit reference to FORCE being used AGAINST an innocent person (which you probably like to refer to "FREE" humans as 'Citizens' - born in a geographical politically controlled area known as a State - and by birth owing the debts incurred by the other "Citizens", such as yourself) D) It's somewhat comical you use the word 'pay' given you have absolutely no idea WHAT 'money' actually is and are probably confusing it with debt-based 'currency' backed by 'fiat'/The State - or as Paul Krugman pointed out "Men with Guns". In short, you are pawn being used by the rich. They dangle some 'free' goodies in front of your nose, and like a donkey you walk in whatever direction they point. Such is the price of greed and immorality.

You forget to mention that the donkey is pulling a cart and is contributing to the wealth of the cart owner, but when it gets too old for that it gets put down and sold for dog food, by the owner . At least a human, having pulled the cart to keep the economy vibrant, is guaranteed that even after he/she gets too old to generate wealth for others, there will be a guaranteed supply of carrots, until he/she dies from natural causes (old age).

 

[Michael]

Walmart health plan is cheaper, offers more coverage than Obamacare

The Journal of the American Medical Association analysis from September showed that unsubsidized Obamacare enrollees will face monthly premiums that are five to nine times higher than Walmart premiums. JAMA found the unsubsidized premium for a nonsmoking gouple age 60 can cost $1,365 per month versus the Walmart cost of about $134 for the same couple. The medical journal reported a 30-year-old smoker would pay up to $428 per month, in contrast to roughly $70 each month for a Walmart employee. A family of four could pay a $962 premium, but the same Walmart family member would pay about $160.

I hear their website works OK too.


Isn't life wonderful in Amerikkka? We can sit back and watch the State regulated Public Schools pump out State certified functionally illiterate Graduate-sausages who, with their State planned Public Education, have just the right balance of ignorance and obedience to work as a retail Cog in a State-Regulated, State-Sanctioned, State-Financed retail consumer giant chain store -- where inflation will cut into their meager savings paid to them in State Fiat Currency (after they pay the State a tax on their labor). Having the State inflate away their real purchasing power YOY is great for the retail chain, but sadly this forces their partner Cog into taking a 'job' so as to make Slum-Lord Rent. That's OK, the State also offers vouchers for State-Licensed Day Supervision Factories from 6 weeks old and once your ADHD-diagnosed child is put on an AMA monopoly certified State regulated SSRI Rx Drug 'prescription' they can calmly accept their lot in life and sit in their very own Public School State assigned Desk zoned out of their gourd drooling onto their lap while being taught to raise their hand when they have to pee by their State licensed "Educator" - - so as to train them to love the State and be the God damn best little Cogs they can be/will be.

AND thus is the Circle of Life in the Land of the Tax Cattle, home of the Coward - - complete.

How wonderful it is having the State control our markets for us, control our lives for us, control our money for them, and tax our labor for them. Life sure is swell in the good ole USSA where the richest 1% are expected to make another record breaking year in Spoils under O-blah-ma Admin's watchful eye and the bottom 99% will get stuck with a bit more inflation destroying what little wealth they may have had, home prices just that bit more out of reach and a very Progressive Slum-Lord taking 80% of their meager Walmart paycheck off them (which will probably be used to pay for the Slum-Lords kids to attend a Private University to get a good job working in the Government for the State).

Do enjoy the ObamaCare.



Funny story I heard the other day. O-blah-ma has signed up for a "Bronze" plan, which we will pay for. Why? Not to use. Just as a 'Symbolic Gesture" [Jestor] for all us little peons to look up to an emulate. How magnanimous is our Dear Leader. Oh, but O-blah-mah actually didn't do the signing up - he had a tax-payer funded assistant do that. You know, because he's "too busy" (no shit, this is what that douche Carney stated). Too busy!?!? Too f*cking busy to deal with your SIGNATURE legislation?!?! That I find beyond asinine. Particularly given the amount of golf the guy plays. Of course, being the CONmandar in Chief, O-blah-mah gets top notch healthcare through the military (I don't think any Federal Public "Servants" will be stuck with O-blah-mah care their PUBLIC Unions wouldn't allow it).

As for the Walmart CEOs? I understand they have to pick a policy from the same pool as every employee at Walmart. Or buy their own. It wouldn't be fair for them to get special treatment at the Stores expense - see, unlike our "Law Markers", Walmart actually does work hard to treat people equally when it comes to healthcare. It's sad that the State has regulated the markets where Walmart's spread like a disease across our bland Land, but, that's what you little f*cks like. Bland. And a lot of State. Lucky you.

 

[joepistole]

Walmart health plan is cheaper, offers more coverage than Obamacare

I hear their website works OK too.


Isn't life wonderful in Amerikkka? We can sit back and watch the State regulated Public Schools pump out State certified functionally illiterate Graduate-sausages who, with their State planned Public Education, have just the right balance of ignorance and obedience to work as a retail Cog in a State-Regulated, State-Sanctioned, State-Financed retail consumer giant chain store -- where inflation will cut into their meager savings paid to them in State Fiat Currency (after they pay the State a tax on their labor). Having the State inflate away their real purchasing power YOY is great for the retail chain, but sadly this forces their partner Cog into taking a 'job' so as to make Slum-Lord Rent. That's OK, the State also offers vouchers for State-Licensed Day Supervision Factories from 6 weeks old and once your ADHD-diagnosed child is put on an AMA monopoly certified State regulated SSRI Rx Drug 'prescription' they can calmly accept their lot in life and sit in their very own Public School State assigned Desk zoned out of their gourd drooling onto their lap while being taught to raise their hand when they have to pee by their State licensed "Educator" - - so as to train them to love the State and be the God damn best little Cogs they can be/will be.

AND thus is the Circle of Life in the Land of the Tax Cattle, home of the Coward - - complete.

How wonderful it is having the State control our markets for us, control our lives for us, control our money for them, and tax our labor for them. Life sure is swell in the good ole USSA where the richest 1% are expected to make another record breaking year in Spoils under O-blah-ma Admin's watchful eye and the bottom 99% will get stuck with a bit more inflation destroying what little wealth they may have had, home prices just that bit more out of reach and a very Progressive Slum-Lord taking 80% of their meager Walmart paycheck off them (which will probably be used to pay for the Slum-Lords kids to attend a Private University to get a good job working in the Government for the State).

Do enjoy the ObamaCare.



Funny story I heard the other day. O-blah-ma has signed up for a "Bronze" plan, which we will pay for. Why? Not to use. Just as a 'Symbolic Gesture" [Jestor] for all us little peons to look up to an emulate. How magnanimous is our Dear Leader. Oh, but O-blah-mah actually didn't do the signing up - he had a tax-payer funded assistant do that. You know, because he's "too busy" (no shit, this is what that douche Carney stated). Too busy!?!? Too f*cking busy to deal with your SIGNATURE legislation?!?! That I find beyond asinine. Particularly given the amount of golf the guy plays. Of course, being the CONmandar in Chief, O-blah-mah gets top notch healthcare through the military (I don't think any Federal Public "Servants" will be stuck with O-blah-mah care their PUBLIC Unions wouldn't allow it).

As for the Walmart CEOs? I understand they have to pick a policy from the same pool as every employee at Walmart. Or buy their own. It wouldn't be fair for them to get special treatment at the Stores expense - see, unlike our "Law Markers", Walmart actually does work hard to treat people equally when it comes to healthcare. It's sad that the State has regulated the markets where Walmart's spread like a disease across our bland Land, but, that's what you little f*cks like. Bland. And a lot of State. Lucky you.

Except for one minor detail, it ain't true.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...-no-more-taxpayer-subsidized-profits-for-you/

http://www.businessinsider.com/wal-mart-relies-on-taxpayers-to-subsidize-low-wages-2013-6

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...care-policy-medicaid-obamacare_n_2220152.html


How surprising right wingers are lying to us again. Unfortunately there is no surprise there, it's just more of the same kind of dishonesty which is now all too familiar to us. It's just the latest in a long series of right wing lies about Obamacare. My unsubsidized Obamacare is similar to my corporate healthcare and a few dollars cheaper to boot.