New, Improved Obamacare Program Released On 35 Floppy Disks
- Thread starter Michael
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
You mean Darwinian evolution and natural selection? You mean Nature is conspiring to make us fail? Has it ever been different?
There is your State, Michael. Nature rules, and all your tatntrums and rantings are utterly useless.
So we (even the poorest among us) finally will be "privileged" with universal healthcare. I'd say that is a pretty good deal. Except for zoos, life offers no free healthcare to any other species on earth.
But as you have now identified Nature itself as the State which does not allow us to make choices, I have no clue what it is you are trying to say, except that you have absolutely no answers to the building of a a civilized society. You're just ranting, fearmongering, warmongering.
No. It was due to the State paying for the public education of what became doctors and dentists and researchers (government funded research), the State paying for emergency room care and various medical services for the indigent, and so forth.michael said:
Yes it was, actually. Death from malnutrition related causes in children and the elderly dropped dramatically in the US with the establishment of State handouts of food and money to them in particular.michael said:
Your basic problem is that your world view is based on fiction and error. You have most of your political and historical physical facts wrong, and that screws up your analyses.
Not that you aren't capable of screwing it up on your own - look at this:
So the private health care purchased on the market by regular citizens is going to be crap, while the public health care provided by the State to its employees is going to be "premium"?
No, I do NOT mean natural selection. Survival of the Fittest is a metaphor - if you persist thinking in metaphor, euphemism and analogy, you'll continue to make little sense of the world around you. This may explain your magic thinking when you believe pulling the magic lever and the State provides you with high quality affordable any good or service.
You are anti-Civilization. Civilization is built on voluntary trade. It's you who can't voluntarily negotiate health insurance. You're the one who reaches for the gun at the slightest resistance to getting your way.
Well, this shouldn't be a shock, and I shouldn't be the one to have to tell you this, but sticking a gun in someone's face may give their wallet, but only once. So, enjoy your ObamaCare for a few years, but don't be under any illusion you're going to get affordable high quality healthcare in the future. You're not. It's that simple. You will get Public Healthcare, it will cost quite a bit, and it'll probably kill you or your loved ones.
As for a solution: sound money, law, private property, free trade. These are all that are required to produce prosperity.
Actually that is incorrect. Our best universities are and always have been private. There never was a need for public eduction. It's retarded educational progress. Of course, given the fascistic nature of the USSA (the Government took over the money supply in 1913 when it started taxing the worker, banned alcohol in 1920 - you know, because American adults are free and free people are too stupid to moderate their alcohol intake, etc.... ) we therefore can not know what education would look like had the State not stepped in and skewed the knowledge market along with everything else.
This is total bullshit. The USA never had a history of malnutrition any different than anywhere else in the West, the farming practices were no different than those employed by Europeans living in their respective Aristocracies. The English, were particularly free market orientated (hence their empire) and we didn't different from them in most agricultural respects.
People have been dying of dental abscess under various States for generations - the English had bad teeth up until the 80-90s for Christ sake. The free market aspects of dentistry improved dental healthcare - NOT the State.
As for malnutrition. Ever stop and wonder where any of that extra food CAME FROM - which would allow the State to appropriate it for redistribution? From the private industry. You seem to put the cart before the horse. The State creates nothing, aside from waste. It's an inefficient redistribution machine. The free market creates the food to begin with. The State skews the market, thus people don't receive the correct signals on how to plan for the future this leads to starvation (aside from natural weather). Look in the inner city, look at the teens having babies - THAT is the fault of the State. It teaches them to think there's plenty when there isn't. It trains them and rewards them for having children they can not support. It incentives them not to get married so that these children never have fathers in their lives. The State destroys the civilization the free market creates.
Thus, you'll find many Americans actually STARVED thanks to the Federal Government. Here's the handwork of the Federal Government:
In a pamphlet entitled Tenant Farmer, published in 1935, Erskine Caldwell describes a four year old girl dying of malnutrition and anemia, a six year old boy in the process of starving to death and "two babies, neither a year old, sucking the dry teats of a mongrel bitch." He goes on to write "The dog got up and shook herself and lay down several feet away. The babies crawled crying after her."
Oh, you have some statistical analysis on single data points across history? DO share. Here's where we differ. I maintain that the initiation of violence against innocent people is immoral. And it is immoral. It just so happens that as people are free, they become more prosperous and generally accumulate wealth. You OTOH seem to, as Nancy Pelosi suggested "embrace the suck", and maintain you can't even poop without the State there to wipe your arse for you.
Here's an Example: It's a fact that many Japanese starved to death under their respective Shogunates. When freer they also became wealthier and less people starved of malnutrition. The State doesn't prevent malnutrition - the free market does. Look at Communist China, East Germany, or Russia 40 years ago or North Korea today. The Government starves people to death. The Federal Reserve caused Great Depression and Federal Government's idiotic response of paying farmers to kill their livestock or burn their crop led to malnutrition. No one in the free market burns their crop. Or kills their livestock. Only an idiot working in the State would come up with such stupidity.
You seem to be the one with a skewed view of history.
Private insurance the poor will be forced to purchase will be crap. Not the non-poor. The middle class will have access to relatively decent insurance and, while healthcare on the whole is shit, they will be relatively fine. State employees OTOH will enjoy premium healthcare, as good as the wealthiest Americans. AND likewise, they'll deal with what we think of as relatively good healthcare - even though it's in reality already shit compared to what it would have been like if we had maintained a free market in healthcare service and goods.
Thus, the poor WILL be left with healthcare at such a low quality, I expect the black market to provide most of them with their healthcare needs.
Just watch, as the State destroys healthcare (just as it did housing, finance, our money, our privacy, agriculture, the environment, our money, our society) people will refuse to go to Public Hospitals and a Black Market in healthcare will develop. I expect blackmarket healthcare to be the norm in the USSA by 2040.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Even when you misquote me you manage to do it incorrectly.
And that of course would be a Universal Health Issue.
And I would suggest to read the following very carefully to understand what it is you are advoating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest
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Write4U,
Universal Healthcare is a hyperbolic figure of speech. Firstly, the ACA is not "universal" and many Americans will still have no healthcare insurance. Secondly, by definition, it is Fascist to use the State to force citizens to purchase private goods and services. Thirdly, by definition, a loss of civil liberty (force so-celled "free" Citizens to purchase goods or services) is a loss of prosperity. Becoming LESS prosperous isn't the path to a healthy equitable society. The very idea of using State force against innocent people to provide 'universal' anything other than misery is asinine. It's magic thinking. A superstition. Statheism.
People WANT to trade. They spend decades preparing for a job. Millions and millions and millions of Americans each year would like to provide you with healthcare goods and/or services. Why don't they? The AMA. The State is being used to specifically STOP that from happening. The State is being used to prevent competition in healthcare. If the State would stop regulating 'free' Americans OUT of the market place - we'd have affordable healthcare and insurance. That you think the same State that forces prices UP is now going to make it affordable is insane? Who are you kidding? Yourself?!
As for social Darwinism, I'd suggest watching the movie Idiocracy - it's closer to the truth.
Lastly, let's make this much clear: YOU want to initiate force against other innocent people who just so happened to, through no fault of their own, be born in the same geopolitical legal entity as you. I OTOH don't. Iceaura is so enamoured with the use of State force to solve any and every social issue, he can't even take a shit without the State Nanny holding his hand.
Lets imagine this, imagine we had a problem with procreation (actually many highly socialistic countries actually do - see Japan, Italy and Germany as example - oh, and now the USSA). The State's solution is Rape. This IS the State. The free-market voluntary solution must be love. Right now, you are arguing we rape our way to health. Let's see how that one works out in the long run.
Universal Healthcare is a hyperbolic figure of speech. Firstly, the ACA is not "universal" and many Americans will still have no healthcare insurance. Secondly, by definition, it is Fascist to use the State to force citizens to purchase private goods and services. Thirdly, by definition, a loss of civil liberty (force so-celled "free" Citizens to purchase goods or services) is a loss of prosperity. Becoming LESS prosperous isn't the path to a healthy equitable society. The very idea of using State force against innocent people to provide 'universal' anything other than misery is asinine. It's magic thinking. A superstition. Statheism.
People WANT to trade. They spend decades preparing for a job. Millions and millions and millions of Americans each year would like to provide you with healthcare goods and/or services. Why don't they? The AMA. The State is being used to specifically STOP that from happening. The State is being used to prevent competition in healthcare. If the State would stop regulating 'free' Americans OUT of the market place - we'd have affordable healthcare and insurance. That you think the same State that forces prices UP is now going to make it affordable is insane? Who are you kidding? Yourself?!
As for social Darwinism, I'd suggest watching the movie Idiocracy - it's closer to the truth.
Lastly, let's make this much clear: YOU want to initiate force against other innocent people who just so happened to, through no fault of their own, be born in the same geopolitical legal entity as you. I OTOH don't. Iceaura is so enamoured with the use of State force to solve any and every social issue, he can't even take a shit without the State Nanny holding his hand.
Lets imagine this, imagine we had a problem with procreation (actually many highly socialistic countries actually do - see Japan, Italy and Germany as example - oh, and now the USSA). The State's solution is Rape. This IS the State. The free-market voluntary solution must be love. Right now, you are arguing we rape our way to health. Let's see how that one works out in the long run.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
You are wrong!
All we need do is look at the USPS.
In a large universal social service to the general population only a federal program as the US Postal Service was able AND willing to pick up and deliver mail for 25 cents anywhere in the US. The key word is not free Markets but Universal Social Services. There was no for-profit corporation willing or able to provide that service. Why deliver a .25 letter, when it costs 1.25 to deliver it? The USPS, as an arm of the Feds, did and faithfully delivered retirement checks, toiletries, and medicines to millions of elderly living in remote sparsely populated areas. And yes it lost money, because it provided a universal service without consideration of profit or loss of an individual route.
However, with the introduction of the Internet, most advertising and business mail is delivered to an e-mail inbox for FREE. Low and behold, we now have experienced a doubling of postal costs v revenue and as a result we are closing down small rural PO annexes and reducing work hours in larger towns.
At no time did the USPS interfere with the growth of manufacturing and delivering of goods by UPS or FEDEX. Seems to be no gun here.
I see no mailman holding a gun to my head. I see no coercion to buy stamps, except if you want to partake in the delivery service.
The post office was big stuff at one time, but the advent of e-mail has drastically reduced the original inherent competitive edge.
The problem Michael is that you are still clinging to the false notion that health is a commodity, a free choice decision.
If you buy a house and carry a mortgage, you are required by the mortgage company (the money/gun) to carry home insurance or they will not finance the mortgage. When applying for a drivers license, the State (law/gun) asks you to certify that you carry valid liability insurance, when operating on public roads.
And now the effort is to cover as many people as possible under an affordable health care program, which EVENTUALLY benefits everyone.
I don't understand you objections to nation's need for a good infrastructure, bridges that don't collapse, modern ports, high speed transportation, etc.
Nobody is going to do it alone unless they get a monopoly on it! Only by free and voluntary agreement by all Nations to contribute will there be peace and prosperity for all.
Your Free Market argument is naive. The problem lies in controlling Human greed for wealth and power. "Checks and Balances"
All we need do is look at the USPS.
In a large universal social service to the general population only a federal program as the US Postal Service was able AND willing to pick up and deliver mail for 25 cents anywhere in the US. The key word is not free Markets but Universal Social Services. There was no for-profit corporation willing or able to provide that service. Why deliver a .25 letter, when it costs 1.25 to deliver it? The USPS, as an arm of the Feds, did and faithfully delivered retirement checks, toiletries, and medicines to millions of elderly living in remote sparsely populated areas. And yes it lost money, because it provided a universal service without consideration of profit or loss of an individual route.
However, with the introduction of the Internet, most advertising and business mail is delivered to an e-mail inbox for FREE. Low and behold, we now have experienced a doubling of postal costs v revenue and as a result we are closing down small rural PO annexes and reducing work hours in larger towns.
At no time did the USPS interfere with the growth of manufacturing and delivering of goods by UPS or FEDEX. Seems to be no gun here.
I see no mailman holding a gun to my head. I see no coercion to buy stamps, except if you want to partake in the delivery service.
The post office was big stuff at one time, but the advent of e-mail has drastically reduced the original inherent competitive edge.
The problem Michael is that you are still clinging to the false notion that health is a commodity, a free choice decision.
If you buy a house and carry a mortgage, you are required by the mortgage company (the money/gun) to carry home insurance or they will not finance the mortgage. When applying for a drivers license, the State (law/gun) asks you to certify that you carry valid liability insurance, when operating on public roads.
And now the effort is to cover as many people as possible under an affordable health care program, which EVENTUALLY benefits everyone.
I don't understand you objections to nation's need for a good infrastructure, bridges that don't collapse, modern ports, high speed transportation, etc.
Nobody is going to do it alone unless they get a monopoly on it! Only by free and voluntary agreement by all Nations to contribute will there be peace and prosperity for all.
Your Free Market argument is naive. The problem lies in controlling Human greed for wealth and power. "Checks and Balances"
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The Ethics of initiation of force/violence against innocent people are as follows: It's immoral.
Let's stop and think about this. You say it costs $1.25 to deliver a letter, you want it delivered for $0.25. Why? If the price is $1.25 then this means that this is the amount of resources required to deliver a letter. The oil needed. The Environmental damage that will be caused: burning the fuel to deliver the letter, extracting the minerals to make the USPS trucks, the trees that will be killed to make the paper for the envelop, the plants consumed to make the glue on the stamp and the color of the picture on the stamp - everything, all of it. THAT is the price.
Once you artificially lower the price - you distort normal behavior into one that is no longer based on reality. WHY do you want to do this? This means MORE resources will be consumed, more pollution emitted, more environmental damage caused as humans unwittingly use a service at a price that does NOT reflect the actual costs of the items they are consuming.
What? You don't care about the environment?
Worse still, giving a monopoly to the USPS stifles competition and reduce innovation (which is why the USPS stated it was impossible to deliver next day - oh, until the UPS did it that is, then it suddenly became possible). Not to mention workers that have no sense of their value and have a job for life generally develop a sense of entitlement that comes with not having to 'serve' their 'customers' in a competitive environment. Then there's their added retirement benefits, health benefits, vacation, sick leave, etc....
So, let's stop and think about this.
Example A: $1.25 letter is delivered for $0.25 cents
So, how is this going to be possible? Well, you'll have to get the $1 from somewhere? This means you'll need to impose an income tax on the workers. So, everyone now has to pay an income tax for working. This of course means you'll need a governmental agency to create income tax and administrate it. That's going to require more people being hired - they'll need to be paid, so the $1.25 is now $1.50. Of course, society will have to fill in tax forms. This wastes otherwise productive or leisure time (loss of time is a reduction in prosperity). So, now $1.50 is $1.60. Of course some people won't pay their income tax or will cheat. So, we'll need a police force to go get them when they don't, courts and juries and judges to deal with people who don't want to pay their income tax and prisons to put them into (loss of civil liberty is a reduction in prosperity). So, now $1.60 is $2.80. Then there's the benefits, pensions, vacations, etc... ALL of these additional civil 'servants' receive. So, now $2.80 is $3.00. And of course the same little arse holes who didn't want to pay $1.25, they don't like paying tax. So, the Government will need to come up with some other clever way to pay, thus it will seek to totally take over the money supply - which naturally happens through a central bank. Those people need paid. So, $3.00 is now $3.50. The central bank will raise money by selling 30 year bonds PLUS interest. Ah, and so we see who get's stuck with the bill - your children. With interest $3.50 is $4.00.
How nice of you to have given up their future prosperity and their civil liberties so you could live in a delusion where the magic government magically delivers a $1.25 letter for $0.25 cents. When the interest is added in, your children will be paying $4.00. And, it'll mean BOTH the wife and the husband will have to work just to barely keep up with the payments on the Bonds that paid for goods and services that they had no say in. AND what happens if they refuse to pay? A police monkey in a blue suite puts a gun in their face and shoves them in a rape cage. This means their children (if they can afford to have any) will need to be put in day supervision factories (many children in Australia get stuffed into daycare from 6 WEEKS old). Of course children that are raised without their parents instead bond with their daycare supervisor. Who then leave for another job (job turnover is quite high in these supervisory factories) which means this child has been abandoned. This child then has emotional issues around abandonment and is put on some drug prescribed by the local monopoly/AMA licensed doctor and when they get a bit older are crammed in another artificial environment called public school where they are shit out 12 years later functionally illiterate into a highly regulated world already owing $50,000 for some arse-wipes 0.25 cent letter. They take a job at McDonald's or Walmart as these are the only companies that can economize the millions of regulations and compete in the high regulated so-called 'free' markets and generally vote for more Government provided goods and services because they have mommy-issues around their abandonment and want a nanny to take care of them and are probably too f*cking stupid to figure out who they got to where they are at anyway. Time to watch TV or some sports and get high.
How nice of you. What a wonderfully distopian world you leave your kids.
Example B: $1.25 letter is delivered for $1.25 cents
Here we simply have the letter delivered for it's price. With added competition in all sectors, the price comes down to $0.80 cents and *gasp* THAT'S what people pay. Some people invent the faxs machine and other's invent email meaning most people send written information electronically. Done.
You are naive. And the problem is control the greed of people like you who want things but don't want to pay for them and don't want to negotiate when they do need to pay. YOU are the problem. Not other's. You. It's not nativity. Its you. People like you destroy civilizations. And, because most people are now like you - we're just going to have to hope this Distopian shithole you people have created is sunk quick enough. So, my suggestion is you get out the vote for Hitlery in 2016, I hear she's going to close gitmo, wind-down the wars, pull out the troops and fix healthcare. And we get this f*cker sunk. Maybe 30 years, perhaps there will still be time for my children to live in a free country. If not, maybe the grandchildren. But as for us. Nope. We get more of you and more NSA along with you. Yeah for us.
Do enjoy your ObamaCare it's going to cost you much more than you think it will.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Oh those poor European socialist countries where the people suffer untold misery. You're a short sighted fool.
You may want to take a look at this for an example of your "free market" system, where the Nation's resources are used to benefit all its citizens. But you do not advocate for that do you? You like the Darwinian system of selecting out the poor and just let them die.
But you need not worry just yet about becoming a socialist country. Just look at this little tidbit about the distribution of wealth in the US. And the trend since the relaxation of regulation on Big Business (the job providers), in order to stimulate job growth.
http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10...rong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?c=reccon1
You may want to take a look at this for an example of your "free market" system, where the Nation's resources are used to benefit all its citizens. But you do not advocate for that do you? You like the Darwinian system of selecting out the poor and just let them die.
But you need not worry just yet about becoming a socialist country. Just look at this little tidbit about the distribution of wealth in the US. And the trend since the relaxation of regulation on Big Business (the job providers), in order to stimulate job growth.
http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10...rong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?c=reccon1
You mean Greece, Italy, France and Spain?
Believe me, the Nordic and Scandinavian nations, you know the ones where people are free NOT to wear helmets, teens can buy alcohol and they don't have a national mandated minimum wage - they don't want you or your Nanny State there.
I've met with pre-med students from Sweden, they have a better understanding of human physiology relative to many of the AMA certified medical professionals. We ARE NOT monocultureal Northern Europeans. We ARE NOT Japanese. If you want to make a closer comparison, we're the Greece of Europe. We're the Philippines of Asia. Do you see any Japanese or European Public Schools graduating class after class year on end where 50% are functionally illiterate? Do you? Do you see housing slums with generational welfare? Do you?
You're the fool.
You want the *magic* State to give you $1.25 cent letter delivery for $0.25 cents. Sorry, but mathematics doesn't allow that to happen. In the real world, real resources are limited.
THIS is your argument? More of you socialist babble. It's the same bullshit Communist propaganda that was made against Capitalism for the last 80 years.
This is what you Statheist's do. You 'say' you want $0.25 cent letter delivery, but you never explain how that $1 is going to be paid for. Why? Because in your head the government is the new God. Instead of praying to it, you pull the magic voting letter and *poof* all the bullshit promises the politician bullshitting you to get elected promised just *magically* happens. Grow the F*ck up. You are DESTROYING this nation's economy with your childish fantasies. This isn't America. There's no way Americans born 100 years ago wold be as dumb-arse ignorant and foolish as the modern American Tax Cattle. If anything, they'd be shocked and sickened.
** It should also be noted, we should add on another $1.50 and make it $5.50 per letter. As iceaura and you are so worried about 'free loaders' coming to the USSA and taking advantage of 'our' subsidized "for the Social Good" $0.25 postal delivery service, we'll need to include a boarder patrol and passports requirement and Citizenship ID to ensure only "Americans" and those with their proper 'papers' are allowed to use the service. Thus, in your Socialistic shit-smeared paradise the price is actually $5.50/letter. Don't worry, your grandkids can pick up the bill, and thanks to Public Schooling they'll be so ignorant of how the monetary and governing system actually functions they wouldn't know better anyway (for example, see: Mirror).
Like I said, VOTE FOR HITLERY - let's sink this f*cker already. We're at just a tad bit over 50% on one Government handout or another. The give me free postal delivery should start snowballing soon. We're just coming up over the hill. But, don't you worry. You "Progressives" will soon have your very own National Socialist American Worker's Party and then we can watch as the Slum-Lords are the first hung out to dry. Ooooo and you'll get your NSA as a cherry on top to make sure none get away.
Yeah, it pretty much looks like the distribution of wealth you'd see in any other highly Socialistic country like CCP in China. You can thank your lovely Obama for supporting Helicopter Ben as he used the Federal Reserve to bail out the richest Americans sticking 5 generations of Americans with their bill. So, I do hope you like your ObamaCare, it was a nice red herring while it lasted. The richest Americans were bailed out and are buying farm land, gold and art as we speak.
Hope you're happy with your ObamaCare.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
I agree, but what does that have to do with providing certain public services which benefit all people. Is that immoral?
Oh yes I do, probably much more so than you do, I happen to live in No. Idaho and I have seen the results of polluted rivers and lakes by mining companies to the point that the nice trout you catch is inedible from heavy metals, or the clear cutting of forests so that the entire ecosystem suffers and premature runoffs hurt farmers from a steady supply of water just when their crops need it most.
I have also lived in Los Angeles when there were nights you could not see the stars from smog.
But you want to get rid of the Forest Service and the EPA (clean drinking water act).
Yes, for once, stop your rantings and think about this.
What an anarchy world you would leave your kids. Not so very nice of you.
Yes, we could have had all those nice inventions like fax and e-mail, if only we had gotten rid of government services.
Yes, by all means let us do away with the Constitution altogether, which guarantees a National Defense.
Do you ever watch the news? Millions of people are already getting better health insurance at lower cost and millions of others now actually have health insurance (which they could not get before) so they do not need to have to use costly ER facilities to treat minor illnesses.
Actually, I must admit, the USPS example was a trick question to test your actual knowledge on the economy. The USPS actually makes a profit, but it is mandated to provide a pension fund for its employees. Obviously you have no clue and are just ranting from some misplaced anger issue. Your understanding of social engineering for large economies and hundreds of millions of people is woefully lacking in depth.
Remember what happened to the pension funds of Enron, in which some people had invested their life savings? And the stocks sold by Enron management a few days before the company went belly up? That is the result of unregulated Capitalism, "get what you can and everyone else be damned". This is what you call "freedom from regulation"
Here is the real story of USPS, a non-profit public service which makes it possible for millions of elderly to receive their social security checks or medications, even in the remotest parts of the country. A service which Fedex and USP cannot (will not) provide because it would not be profitable and no one can force them to deliver a package unles they can make a profit.
Michael, I hope you saw the clip I provided. It clearly shows your ignorance of reality and without adequate (and efficient) free public services, we would not have civilization. That we all share in the costs (taxes) of these services is a voluntary act and if we don't like it, elect representatives who will lower your taxes and cut those services. That's the way our democracy functions, we do get to choose.
I’m sure millions of Americans are happy with their Obamacare. That is what the polls say anyway. But here are some of the facts you like to repeatedly ignore Bernanke and the Fed bailed out everyone because everyone is affected by the economy. In keeping the economy out of recession, Ben and his fellows at the Fed preserved the jobs of millions of Americans and created jobs for millions more. Additionally, the actions taken by the Fed have not added on penny to the nation’s deficits or debt. In fact, by keeping the nation out of recession and adding millions of jobs to the economy Ben and his fellows at the Fed saved the nation billions if not trillions in unemployment and other social safety net spending and lost tax revenues. And has been repeatedly pointed out to you umpteen times, the Fed annually sends its profits of nearly 100 billion dollars to the federal treasury. In other words, it’s a profit center for the US government. Unfortunately you are not affected by facts and reason. If you were affected by facts and reason, you wouldn't have your ideology. And your solution to the wealth and income inequality problem, giving all control and all power to the richest among us, isn't going to solve that problem. It never has. It's a strange notion. If we just give the richest among us all they want, magically they will share their wealth and power and look after the lower 99%. Michael, this is not new news, but your ideology relies on magic and that is a problem for people like me. Your ideology suffers from the same errors in fact and reason found in communism. Suddenly people stop acting like people if only we would do this or that.
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
btw, Michael, you are so fond of citing "fiat money". But if you had done a little study on the subject you would have learned that, except for labor and direct barter, all means of exchange, be it money, promisory note, or even gold, is "fiat money".
Here I am, born and raised in Holland, and I need to give you lessons in English? Do your home work before you start spouting words which you do not understand.
Here I am, born and raised in Holland, and I need to give you lessons in English? Do your home work before you start spouting words which you do not understand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
Michael and his fellows have been redefining words for many years now. They have their own special unpublished libertarian dictionary. For them it's not about correctness or reason, it's all about demagoguery.
See? More of your *magic* thinking. Putting a gun in someone's face is immoral. What don't you get here?! When a woman says NO and you have sex with her anyway - that's called RAPE. If she said YES, then it'd be called LOVE. Do you see the difference here? Babbling on about the children and how great children are doesn't change RAPE into LOVE.
Any of this getting through the solid wall of propaganda that substitutes for skull and gray matter??!?
Here, this is simple. IF there really is a good or service people WANT then they'll pay for it when they use it. See, pretty simple isn't it? Forcing the worker to pay a tax on their work to support a governmental agency to redistribute the money to a quasi-private company (like the USPS - this is commonly called Fascism) that will provide a wanted service only does one thing - ADDS in a layer of middleman (in this case the government). The price therefor MUST BE HIGHER. The only reason is seems lower is the massive debt you leave your children.
Which is why it now takes BOTH the husband and the wife to work just to barely get by. And many of those will be working 80 hours a week to pay their Slum-Lord Joe who can't be more "Progressive" about shoveling all his debts onto your kids. Hey, if you're lucky maybe your children can drop out of school and start working to make rent. But hey, you got your $0.25 cent stamped letter delivered.
Oh no you don't, you just said, you want $1.25 letters to be delivered for $0.25 cents. This means you want people to WASTE resource and POLLUTE the environment at a cheaper price than what it would cost to create the waste and pollution. You want an 80% subsidization of waste a pollution. Or to put it another way, not only do you want stick your children and grandchildren with your bills, you also don't mind sticking them with your pollution and wasting what little resources there are on your letter delivery. You DO understand petroleum reserves are finite don't you?! You DO understand when you make letter delivery cheaper than what it actually costs in resources, by artificially lowering the price, people will think the price really is $0.25 cents and USE MORE resources?
See? This is the problem with you progressives. You say you want to 'help the children' but in reality you want to help yourselves and are happy to stick them with your bill. You say you want to protect the environment. But in reality you want to help yourselves and are happy to destroy the environment if it means you get a letter delivered cheaper. You say you want to limit energy use - yet here to you are more than happy to subsidize 80% of letter delivery thereby burning 80% more energy than otherwise would be needed. See all that crap mail in your mail box? You're to thank for that. Million of trees were butchered so you could have your $0.25 cent *magical* letter delivery.
You may want to look up the word before attempting to use it in a sentence. Of course ANY moral human would LOVE to leave their child a world in anarchy. Is that going to happen? Not in our lifetimes.
Oh, so now you're going to defend the NSA?
Who are you kidding? Yourself?
New York Times: Postal Service Reports Loss of $15 Billion
November 15, 2012
WASHINGTON — The Postal Service on Thursday reported a record $15.9 billion net loss for the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, bringing the financially troubled agency another step closer to insolvency.
Oh, and in case you didn't know, the USPS is quasi-public-private. This is by definition FASCISM. You know, the whole reason for fighting World War II? The so-called 'Good Fight' against Fascism. What a joke. Also to note, the U.S. Postal Service does NOT pay sales tax or property tax. They don't even pay parking tickets. They have access to loans at artificially LOWER than market rates. Private companies have none of these advantages.
Again, you live in *magic* land where you get your $1.25 letter delivered for $0.25 cents. EXCEPT YOUR CHILDREN are stuck with the bill. That's the part you keep leaving out. How you stick your kids and grandkids with the bill as the nation goes deeper into debt and the world squanders it's limited resources.
What the hell are you talking about? The entire US market is regulated from top to bottom. There is no area of your life that is not regulated. That toilet paper you wiped your arse with - regulated. The coffee you drank this morning - regulated. The pencil you bought - regulated. The money you use - regulated. The bank you use - regulated. EVERYTHING IS REGULATED. You can't even f*cking get MARRIED without the Government sticking it's nose in and having a god damn say about it.
You live on a TAX FARM. You are not free. YOU are tax cattle.
You live in la la land. A *magical* land where up is down, left is right, and non-profit is virtuous. You do understand SOMEONE IS GOING TO PAY.
Do I watch the News? No. I don't waste my time watching TV. I suggest you do the same.
No Joe. What Bernanke did was bail out the top 1% at the expense of the bottom 99%. The FACT is the Federal Reserve CAUSED the Global Financial Crises and now we have too much investment in areas like housing and not enough in areas like innovation and technology. The USA would have a better restructured economy had we let the bad banks fail - along with the crooks who run them.
The FACT is the Federal Reserve caused this mess just as it caused the Great Depression.
But don't worry, I'm sure some Progressive politician will run on a platform of taxing slum-lords and giving to the poor. How does a 90% tax on rent sound Joe? Sound pretty good to you? You DO care about the children don't you? You do? Good, then you'll be happy to pay a 90% tax on any rental income you've slummed out of the Projects.
As for the Federal Reserve, it will be lucky to make it another 25 years (probably more like 10 years). But don't think they're going to go down without a fight. And hey, who doesn't hate the Koch Brothers or a Slum-Lord? Easy pickings for politicians promising a fat 90% tax to bailout our lovely Federal Reserve who is just there trying to "help the poor". You like helping 'the Poor' don't you? And the Koch Brothers can buy friends in Washington.
In the end, Progressivism is a Cult - one that will kill and eat it's own. The word Progress is so blatantly obvious a sale-pitch. Hey, we're the "Progressives". Talk about child-like babble talk. Very few people would ever have the stomach to BE a politicians. Just having to talk to adult man-children with little catch phrases like "Progressive Liberal Agenda" would be enough to make any sane person barf. Sorry boys and girls, mommy needs to pass to Bill to read the Bill and see what's in it. Now run along and let the Progressive Liberal Agenda Save the Planet, the Children, the Panda and give you "FREE" healthcare and an ObamaPhone.
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WTF are you going on about? Gold and Silver have been used as money and will continue to be used as money without coercion. The Federal Government of the USA creates fiat currency and forces you to pay your labor-tax in it. THIS is fiat. It's using force to add value to a currency. Force is the very foundation of our currency and has been since 1913 - but particularly since Nixon broke from the gold standard.
You are not allowed to pay your income tax in gold or silver or bitcoin or coffee beans - you MUST pay it in USD. This means the Government can sell T-Bonds to the Chinese and then unleash the police on your children if they refuse to pay the Chinese back with interest. You know, so you can get a $1.25 letter delivered for $0.25 cents. Your CHILDREN, the ones you claim to care about - are the ones you stick with your bills. That is immoral. It's that simple. Stealing is immoral. Voting to steal doesn't change immoral to moral. It remains immoral.
Perhaps do a bit more reading than WIKI. The words currency and money are different for a reason.
Paul Krugman: “Fiat Money…Backed By Men With Guns”
You are Tax Cattle - the Banks own this country. That lever you pull to the right or left and think *magically* delivers $1.25 letters for $0.25 cents - that's bullshit for little children to believe in. Like Santa Clause. Little children who inhabit adult sized bodies but still want the Mommy who wasn't there to take care of them because she was too busy working to pay for some arse-wipe's extra $1 on the $0.25 cent letter sent a generation earlier, too busy working to take care of them - so they run to their Nanny State. You know, the one that's a sociopath, the one that spends $8.5 TRILLION on phony made-up wars and then incompetently looses them, that graduated functional illiterates and then asks It to provide them with affordable healthcare. Yeah, it'll be cheap - and you'll probably die from it. So, for this red herring O-blah-ma-Care, take a good look at Public Housing, that is ACA in 25 years. Oh, but not for the rich, the rich will get good healthcare subsidized by the poor. That's what happens when you ask your rapist to provide you with healthcare. Compare with an PRIVATE iPhone5. BOTH rich and poor alike - same. Compare with a PRIVATE Walmart. BOTH rich and poor alike - same. Compare with PUBLIC schools - the RICH get decent State subsidized Schools and the POOR graduate functionally illiterate.
Want to know where you don't see functional illiterate graduates - PRIVATE SCHOOLS and CHARTER SCHOOLS. Why? Because they are built on voluntarism (love) and not violence (rape). One more time, Krugman's OWN WORDS: The United States Dollar has VALUE because people (tax cattle) needed to obtain the currency in order to pay taxes.