“ Originally Posted by anita m
I thought we went over this already some time back in this thread, it was showing the change of the Galapagos finches and their beaks. The end result was that the birds were still the same finches! ”
No they weren't the same! They were still recognizably related to mainland finches, but they had changed. That's what new species are, changed old species.
Look Spidergoat, mainland schmaynland they were FINCHES, and the same Finches, maybe the others were just a tad bit chubbier and their beaks shorter, that’s it!
You’re never going to make a pelican out of this. All you’ve made is a mocking bird out of yourself.
“ You say one thing: that there is no such thing as an “entirely new creature”, but then you go onto to say all creatures are the result of natural selection forcing gradual change. To me you are saying that this gradual change eventually equates to a "new creature". What you are saying is contradictory. ”
Yes, no creature gives birth to a species other than it's own, and yet over time, the species splits off, changes, and gets a label tacked on it for the scientific purposes of classification. The only reason we recognize separate species is because the fossil record isn't complete. If it were, we would every creature morphing gradually from a common ancestor. This is the narrative supported by the fossil record.
A lot of assuming here don’t you think?
That’s right, the fossil record is incomplete and will never be complete EVER! That is because things did not split off and change in this way. Again, just because living creatures resemble each other, does not mean they are an ancestor of that creature. Just like an air-conditioning unit... The same parts that go into it are also some of the same parts that go into a Boeing 747 engine, or a car engine simply because they work. Don’t you think G-d would have employed the same system in living thing that He created?
BTW, in my book I bring forth to the table all of the speculated transitional missing links between ape and man (hominids) ever to be discovered. As it turns out they are still only those of monkey and ape species. All the evidence is clearly expected… not one authentic transitional form has ever been found - man has always been man!
I expose all of them from Nebraska man, Piltdown man, Swanscombe, Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, Pithecanthropus, Homo erectus, Lucy, Africanus, Eoanthropus, Anamensis, Homo Habilus, Ardipithecus, Ramapithecus, Australopithecines and even the Hobbits of the small island of Flores.
The history of hominid paleontology has shown many “uncertainties“. Scientists have spent their careers bantering over the proper interpretation of bone chips, teeth, and dust. In fact all the hominid bones ever found wouldn’t fill one large box, and the very best skeletons are only less than half complete. So we’re really working with a lack of evidence.
Oh and there is NO REAL WAY we could date bones (especially fossilized) just by looking or measuring them, no not even using carbon 14 dating or radioisotope testing (additionally Carbon 14 has a half life of roughly 5,700 years). There is no way you can tell how old the bone is apart from the rock that you dug the bone out of. Even that rock cannot accurately be measured either apart from the cataloged fossils that are in it. This is because living creatures (including human bones) that have become petrified rock contain no carbon.
So how do scientists date these bones? They date these bones by what’s called a “geologic time table” of the earths “ASSUMED” history, which is based upon years of leading professionals with the “evolutionist understanding” that living things have evolved for billions of years. So when they find bones such as dinosaur bones… scientists identify that those bones must be at least million of years before humans were here with the programming in mind that it took a long stretch of time for reptiles to evolve into mammals, then primates, and then into humans. So their whole principle of dating things depends on their whole idea of “evolutionism“, not carbon or radioisotope dating. 1 Timothy 1:3-4 -
Teach no other doctrine, neither give heed to fables and ENDLESS GENEALOGIES.
If you don’t believe what I'm saying here, then investigate this for yourself.
Here is something else to think about… Logically thinking, if man had been evolving from ape like creatures though MILLIONS of years, do you know how many “missing links and transitional forms” we would be discovering? The answer to this reveals itself is the amount of people in the world today. It is just about the number you would expect if eight people (Noah and his family) walked off of an ark only 4500 years ago. (the math is calculated in my book).
“ Either way if the genetic switch was turned off or on, it is still a skink with or without legs and has remained a skink from the beginning of time! ”
That is just plain false. Pick an animal, and if you go back far enough in time, you won't find any of them, only it's distant ancestors. The skink came from reptiles, which came from amphibians, which came from fish, which came from invertebrates... going all the way back to the first primitive cells.
Firstly, just because it is a single celled organism doesn’t not make it old. Again, this is the “ASSUMED” history, which is based upon the “evolutionist understanding” that living things have evolved for billions of years.
“ Many animals look like each other but are not. You can even make a dog look like a Panda bear! Man might be able to manipulate the skinks DNA by turning back on the genetic information, but in the wild, this never happens. For the skinks in the wild this is a loss of information. ”
You are wrong about that. Scientists have triggered the growth of teeth in a chicken! In the wild, this does happen. It's called Neoteny.
Again, nothing new here either. You are referring to atavistic features.
Firstly, many animals and insects alive today have atavistic features… some of the commonly known ones are dew claws in dogs, wings in earwigs which are normally wingless, extra toes in guinea pigs and salamanders. But let me reassure you that these types of things are not any sort of primitive reclusive genes that suggest evolution of any type. As for the atavistic characterizes of the chicks, these are things that “natural selection” originally selected as advantages at one time and later choose to disregard them when they became disadvantaged. If this were the case that animals have within them the genes to regress into their primitive forms, why than doesn’t a bird have the DNA that changes them back into a lizard, snake or a rodent type creature? (where are those genes?) Again, there is no new information here of any kind going on here.
“ The Bible has never been falsified, EVER! ”
Yes, Genesis says flowering plants came before trees, but this is false. Flowers were a later evolutionary invention. The Bible is a collection of some 10 to 15% of the gospels that actually existed at the time in relation to early Christianity. Just like any collection of texts, it is bound to contain some references to real events, but it is by no means a reliable source. Real Biblical scholars (as opposed to religious amateurs) already accept this as a given.
This is what the evolution theory teaches, but G-d is smarter than that. He knew the evolutionist would try and harm His truth so He implicitly put the order of things that He created in a certain order to prove the He didn’t use evolution, and that he created all things in the manner which the Bible states in Genesis. For instance, the Bible tells us that that G-d put trees on dry land before He put life in the ocean. Genesis 1:11-12 -
And G-d said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and G-d saw that it was good.
And we read it again in Genesis 2 (so that it is clearly understandable) that plants were made before rain. Genesis 2:4-5 -
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord G-d made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord G-d had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Then we read in Genesis that G-d created the great whales and birds. Genesis 1:20-21 -
And G-d said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And G-d created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and G-d saw that it was good.
G-d created life in this sequence to implicitly show us that He didn’t need any water to do His work of creating life. He also created whales and birds (fowl) first, and then waited a day to create the land animals to prove that He didn’t need their help to initially give rise to the whales. Genesis 1:24-25 -
And G-d said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And G-d made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and G-d saw that it was good.
Its very ironical here because the evolution theory says that whales developed from existing land mammal’s as they have what looks like remains of skeletal feet and bones, (but it has been recently discovered that these appendages (vestigial legs) are actually used for reproduction. Furthermore these vestigial legs are only found in the “male” and are used to anchor the muscles attached to the penis). furthermore, the evolution theory says that birds must have come from previously existing reptiles, so G-d in foresight of this, deliberately and intentionally created the birds on the fifth day, and waited one day to create reptiles to prove He didn’t need their help in giving rise to the birds either. Genesis 1:20 -
And G-d said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. Genesis 1:24-25 -
And G-d said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And G-d made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and G-d saw that it was good.
“ Uh Spidergoat, it’s been the same text for 3,000 years! Jesus read the same exact Torah in Hebrew (the Old Testament - 5 books of Moses) that the Jews read today. Aramaic is very similar to modern Hebrew today. ”
Since no original copies exist, and Jesus didn't write anything down, and each copy introduced the errors and opinions of the copier, it can't be trusted as an original source.
Sorry Spidergoat, yes original copies exist. If you didn’t already know, we have the "Dead Sea Scrolls" that have proven to be a vital source for backing up what the modern Bible tells us word-for-word.
I forgot how much fun this forum was!
