My turn for genocide

[spidergoat]

Whatever.

 

[S.A.M.]

In fact, Judeans or Yehudim as they are called in Hebrew were from the kingdom of Judea and not from the northern kingdom of Israel, which was destroyed.

 

[spidergoat]

I think the source was referring to a previous period.

 

[S.A.M.]

Regardless, not only did "Jews" [since there were no Jews to begin with] not come from "Israel", the Judeans actually destroyed it.

 

[spidergoat]

Judaism was an amalgamation of two previous traditions, but that innovation occurred in Israel. I would expect that the early history of Jewish people was probably full of tribalism and warfare.

 

[S.A.M.]

And still no historical connect between Hebrews and Jews except mythology.

 

[spidergoat]

And the Hebrew language.

 

[S.A.M.]

Which was "resurrected" from the dead. Plus, is there any evidence that the Judeans spoke Hebrew?

 

[spidergoat]

What difference does it make?

 

[S.A.M.]

Exactly

 

[spidergoat]

They all emerged in the same area. Wether Jews descended from people that came there from somewhere else or were native, or probably some of each is an interesting archeological question, but does it mean something else to you?

 

[GeoffP]

I did not realise that there was a relevance of the origin of Judaism to the origin of Jews today, anymore than I see a relevance of the origin of Islam to the origin of Muslims today.

How can you have an "origin of muslims today"?

 

[S.A.M.]

They all emerged in the same area. Wether Jews descended from people that came there from somewhere else or were native, or probably some of each is an interesting archeological question, but does it mean something else to you?

Any evidence for all of your claims or assertions?

They have found pre-"Jewish" architecture in Palestine, but not a trace of the so-called mighty "Jewish" kingdom. How come?

And some patently confusing claims:

The wall dates from a time in the Middle Bronze Age when Jerusalem was a small, fortified enclave controlled by the Canaanites, before they were conquered by the Israelites.

Who were the Israelites? The people of Judea or the inhabitants of Israel? Which kingdom was which? Where do the Canaanites fit in? The ones whose architecture does exist?

What evidence is there for the kingdoms of David or Solomon? For Moses or the exile? For the alleged exit of "Jews" from Palestine? For the temple allegedly destroyed 600 years before Islam?

None, not one. Its all a myth thats been brainwashed into their children for ages.

 

[iceaura]

What evidence is there for the kingdoms of David or Solomon? For Moses or the exile? For the alleged exit of "Jews" from Palestine? For the temple allegedly destroyed 600 years before Islam?

None, not one. Its all a myth thats been brainwashed into their children for ages.

Religions have their myths. All of them.

 

[S.A.M.]

Religions have their myths. All of them.

Indeed. And there is no harm in them, as long as they do no harm to others.

 

[James R]

SAM:

I did not realise that there was a relevance of the origin of Judaism to the origin of Jews today,

Why did you bring it up, then?

Is there any historical evidence for the origin of Judaism in Palestine?

There's plenty of archaeological evidence.

Meanwhile, what does the origin of the ancestors of the Palestinian people have to do with the argument?

Which argument?

According to Israeli historian Shlomo Sand, there are no "Jewish people"

Cherry picking sources again, SAM? Have you managed to find any sources saying there are Jewish people in your extensive digging through the literature? Not one?

Once again, what does the origin of Judaism or Jewish people [which are mutually exclusive incidents] have to do with the argument?

You tell me. You brought it up.

Now you've brought up a second claim: that identifying as Jewish has nothing to do with Judaism.

Hmm....

Do you care to try to support that?

 

[S.A.M.]

SAM:



Why did you bring it up, then?

I didn't. The "native Jews" was brought up by spidergoat. I challenged his assertion as to their "nativeness"

There's plenty of archaeological evidence.

For example? I've looked and can't find any historical evidence that there were a people called "Jews" before Islam in Palestine.

Cherry picking sources again, SAM? Have you managed to find any sources saying there are Jewish people in your extensive digging through the literature? Not one?

Have you found any? I'd be happy to see one source which shows that the Jews of modern Israel are the same people as the Hebrews of ancient Judea or even the Israelites of ancient Israel. Or even a source that shows there was an ancient Israel.

Canaanite map with retroactive addition of Israel:

Roman map with no Israel:

Fenak Israel?

http://www.zionism-israel.com/maps/Israel_Maps.htm

You tell me. You brought it up.

Now you've brought up a second claim: that identifying as Jewish has nothing to do with Judaism.

Hmm....

Do you care to try to support that?

I already did, I gave the source of the historian, Shlomo Sand. Do you have any valid evidence that proves his findings as false?

In the book Sand argues that most contemporary Jews don't originate from the ancient Land of Israel. They never existed as a "nation-race" with a common origin. Most of them are descendants of European, Russian and African groups that at various stages in history adopted the Jewish religion. Just like others adopted Christianity. He also argues that for a number of Zionist ideologues, "the mythical perception of the Jews as an ancient people led to truly racist thinking"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invention_of_the_Jewish_People

 

[Gustav]

james is just trolling you sam
ignore him. you are not obliged to respond

There's plenty of archaeological evidence.

when you see shit like that without links to the relevant data, you know they are not interested in having a meaningful discussion

Why did you bring it up, then?

a question like this shows he is not following the thread at all
dont waste your time

 

[S.A.M.]

Maybe but if there are any such archeological findings, I'd like to see them, its not inconceivable that I may be wrong

 

[Gustav]

i understand but it does not seem as if he is interested pointing out how you err.

So you're talking about modern Jews, SAM. What about the first Jews? Where do you think they came from?

that sounds peculiarly like an interrogation. i think he barks the questions at you