My telepathic experience?

Telepathy is not seen, I think many of these comments are about premonition, and not telepathy.
Nope.

An eyewitness to a telepathic event would be someone who was there when the the telepathic event/revelation about someone none of them, including the telepath, knew was produced, and then the result was random, yet accurate and also witnessed by the same people.
Huh? You get a a revelation about someone that not a single one of you knows? So how do verify you're correct? Walk up to that particular stranger and say "You don't know me but..."?
And this description fits "mind reading" more than telepathy - that's generally taken to be a two-way thing.
Oh, and how does the claim of witnesses work with:
What if it didn't work when you tried to reproduce it for an audience, but worked again when you were alone?
and
Would you try to find out why it only worked when you were alone

Said witnesses might also be present when the activity was used in a different way, with 100% accurate everytime results.

How would you convince a serious researcher this was a valid study if it could be reproduced at will, anytime, on any random unaware person in the proper state of mind?
If you're sure it's real and 100% accurate and reproducible get in touch with Randi. It's that easy.

The Amazing Randi is not one step above the fringe, he's just another kook.
And he's a kook because...
Because he has a proven record of showing that claims made are false?
Because he's prepared to put his money where his mouth is?
Because he knows most of the tricks that the charlatans use and sees through them?
Because he's as rigorous as he can be in investigating the claims?
Sounds like cold feet to me.
 
I asked many questions, you shouldn't try to infer much from them, each question was meant to be presented independently of the others unless clearly listed just beneath it and clearly relevant to the first.

Randi is a kook because he is a tv personality with a profitable image to preserve.
Think.
 
And as for this forum, I expected the science threads to be more, I don't know, scientific, but the ones I have read so far are just more stuff like this one, people stating beliefs and others tearing them down, neither of which produce any evidence to support their position.

It's not exactly rocket science around here so let's just indulge each other for the fun of it.
 
Randi is a kook because he is a tv personality with a profitable image to preserve.
Think.
Right.
Because everyone who appears on TV or has an image is obviously a kook.
Cold feet.
Excuses.
Bullshit.

I'm out, you're just wasting time.

And as for this forum, I expected the science threads to be more, I don't know, scientific, but the ones I have read so far are just more stuff like this one, people stating beliefs and others tearing them down, neither of which produce any evidence to support their position.
Balls. Again.
You have ignored (at least twice) the evidence against you.
 
Oh and yes, it's not a clean event if you know the person, you could have paid them, or just asked them to f with people for the fun of it.

You know because the person shows up and does exactly what you wanted them to do. In other instances you might tell someone what you were about to do in a random retail environment and the random person would behave exactly as you predicted, not through premonition, but through mental projection, or telepathy. You might do this many times, but what does it mean ultimately? What is it good for?

Still, some people would believe you set it up, and that's fine, you would know that you didn't, but how would you proceed from there?
 
begin1910:

Randi is a kook because he is a tv personality with a profitable image to preserve.
Think.

A few hours ago it was quite clear from what you posted here that you had no idea how Randi's $1 million challenged even operates. Now here you are calling Randi names. You don't know anything about the man.

---

Regarding your questions about how to determine if psychic abilities are real or not, let's run with an example.

Suppose I notice that sometimes when I'm out walking at night, streetlights mysteriously turn off as I walk under them. I suspect I may have a special magical aura that causes street lights to turn off when I walk near them.

What if you had experiences that could be reproduced, how many times would you have to reproduce it on your own before you understood it was real?

With my streetlight ability, I'd want to test it out a reasonable amount. For example, I wouldn't go walking along the same street every night at the same time, walking under the same lights. Maybe they're on timers. I'd look silly if I called the papers and claimed I could turn off streetlights just by walking near them, and I couldn't.

So, what I'd do is I'd walk down lots of different streets. I'd walk under lots of streetlights. I'd start making records of how many of the lights I walked under turned off in my presence. I'd note the details. Do they turn off after I walk under them, or before, or does it vary? What delay is acceptable before I might put it down to another cause? Suppose I walk under a light and 10 minutes later it turns off (maybe I get a friend to follow me around 10 minutes later to check the lights). Is it still fair to say that my power caused the outages?

How many lights need to turn off to confirm my mysterious power in my own mind? Is 1 in 10 enough? 1 in 50? 1 in 100? Or at least 1 in every 2 or three? I mean, maybe my power doesn't absolutely work every time, but if it works 2 times out of three, that's still fairly convincing.

At what point would you share this reproducable experience?

At the point where I was confident that it was truly reproducible.

At that point I might front up to James Randi and say "I have thoroughly checked my powers, and I assert that 3 times out of every five times I walk under a streetlight it will turn off." That's a solid, definite, testable claim. Note that my power doesn't have to work every time to verify my claim.

With whom would you share it?

Once I was really confident, I'd share it with everybody. I'd become famous as the guy who can turn off lights just by walking under them. Freaky!

What if it didn't work when you tried to reproduce it for an audience, but worked again when you were alone?

Then I'd begin to suspect somebody was playing tricks with me, or that I was mistaken, or mad. I'd try to get a few close friends, relatives or associates to come on one of my walks and witness my power for themselves. That would be a good check on whether I was crazy or not. Of course, I probably would have done that in the first place, before I started making claims in front of an audience.

Would you discontinue your investigation?

I'd continue investigating until I determined whether I was mistaken, deluded or the subject of a prank.

Would you try to find out why it only worked when you were alone and nobody knew what you were doing?

Naturally.

Premonition is certainly useless in most cases, there is very little to look to other than mental projection, but how would you study it?

Keep a diary of your premonitions, for a start. Do it for a reasonable time. For example, if you get one premonition a week, do it for 6 to 12 months. Then look back over what you wrote down. How many premonitions came true, and how many did not? Once you've convinced yourself that you're really getting premonitions, go to somebody else and let them keep your diary and do the checking. Then you have an independent witness.

Remember to be specific about your predictions. Don't write down "I will see a cat in the next month". Write down "I will see a white cat with a damaged ear crossing West 22nd street at 3 pm next Tuesday." Check to see if it comes true.

What controls would you use?

For what? A formal test?

Suppose I wanted to demonstrate my streetlight ability. I'd get independent testers to randomly open a page of the street directory and select a random street. Then, we'd all go down there at night and I'd walk down the street, taking care to walk under each streetlight. The formal testers would note how many of the streetlights turned off as I walked along, and check against my claims of how many I thought would be affected.

Note: I would have to be clear with my claim up front. If I told the testers that the streetlights would turn off within 10 minutes of me walking under them, then if it was suddenly reported two days after the test that all the streetlights in that street had mysteriously failed for some unknown reason that wouldn't confirm my abilities. You can't change the rules after failing the test you said would be fair.

What if it didn't fit your structure out of ignorance?

Then I'd make an effort to learn more.
 
lol, thanks for the example but I am talking specifically about telepathy, or mental projection, I am not sure what I personally believe, it merely irritates me to see people being dismissed because they are not Randi approved.

Randi, or what I do know of him, is a TV guy like Penn. It's fine what he does, I hope he makes a fortune, but that fortune depends on him continuing to be the "debunker" for mainstream society.

For example, the way his "test" has been outlined, no one knows what he has written down, or put away, or what the item is, this would be useless to test telepathy, as the target must have usable information or the telepath cannot retrieve it. I think that all of this is to vague to be effective and that the same tests do not apply to telepaths that you might apply to a person who claims to read the future or whatever. If Randi was serious, he would be more serious and not just a regular guest on the talk shows. He puts on a very good show, and is good at what he does, but that guy who levitates and steals jewelry through glass windows is much better. Of course it's all BS and I don't believe any of it for a minute. Electric signals in the brain are what I am interested in, not magic, simple or elaborate.

Everything emits a frequency, so do you, the question is, are we transmitters and receivers. A simple question, but the answer is not so simple.
 
lol, thanks for the example but I am talking specifically about telepathy, or mental projection, I am not sure what I personally believe, it merely irritates me to see people being dismissed because they are not Randi approved.

Don't you find it at all puzzling that of all the many telepathic people in the world, not a single one has managed to claim the $1 million prize?

Randi, or what I do know of him, is a TV guy like Penn. It's fine what he does, I hope he makes a fortune, but that fortune depends on him continuing to be the "debunker" for mainstream society.

He's not making a fortune. He made his fortune, such as it was, as a professional magician. Many psychic frauds use the same tricks that magicians do, but the psychics dupe the public by pretending that what they do is real. Randi's primary targets are not the Aunt Maisys who read tea leaves for family members, but the Sylvia Browns and John Edwards who make fortunes by ripping gullible people off by claiming powers that they do not possess (and know they do not possess).

For example, the way his "test" has been outlined, no one knows what he has written down, or put away, or what the item is, this would be useless to test telepathy, as the target must have usable information or the telepath cannot retrieve it.

Maybe you're not clear on how a test would be done. For example, suppose you have a person who claims to be able to read the "aura" of an object that is special to a person - like a ring or a necklace, say. Here's how Randi might test that (with the agreement of the psychic, of course).

He'd allow the psychic to talk to the owner of the ring, to handle the ring, to get used to its aura etc. until the psychic was confident he could identify the ring if he came across it again.

Next, somebody else, who has no contact with the psychic or the owner of the ring or with Randi, takes the ring to another room where he has 10 envelopes marked with numbers 1 to 10. That person rolls a 10-sided dice and seals the ring into the envelope with whatever number comes up. Have done that, he collects the envelopes. He then calls in another person who will actually administer the test to the psychic. That person takes the 10 sealed envelopes out to the psychic and lays them out on a table. The psychic must choose which of the ten envelopes contains the ring, without handling the envelopes (so no clues can be given by weight or whatever). Remember that this psychic said he could sense the aura of the ring, and he agreed previously that he could do that even through paper - perhaps by waving his hands over the envelopes.

The psychic chooses an envelope and his choice is recorded. That envelope is then opened and checked to see whether the ring is inside or not. It is then recorded whether the psychic is right or wrong.

The entire procedure may be repeated for several objects. When enough data has been collected, statistical tests are conducted to see whether the psychic did better than you'd expect from mere guessing at picking which envelopes contained the objects.

Note that even if Randi was in the room for such a test, he would never handle any envelope. While the test was going on, nobody in the room with the psychic would know at any time which numbered envelope contained the ring. Not even the experimenters would know until the envelope was opened and checked. (You might wonder about the carrying procedure from one room to another. This could be done by yet another person, or perhaps objects of equal weight such as small stones could be put into the other envelopes to make sure they all had the same weight. All this would be decided in advance and would be known to the psychic, of course.)

I can't see how this kind of test would not be fair to the psychic. Can you?

I think that all of this is to vague to be effective and that the same tests do not apply to telepaths that you might apply to a person who claims to read the future or whatever.

Every test is tailor-made for the individual claimant. The claimant is asked to assist with coming up with whatever testing procedure is used, and must agree that it is a fair test in advance. Nobody wants to test somebody only to have them say afterwards "That test was rigged so that I would fail." That's why claimants all sign a declaration before testing that they agree that the particular test being done is fair.

If Randi was serious, he would be more serious and not just a regular guest on the talk shows. He puts on a very good show, and is good at what he does, but that guy who levitates and steals jewelry through glass windows is much better.

He's very serious. He's also an entertainer by profession. The difference between him and John Edward is that he is not telling you that what he does is real. He tells you up front that he is doing tricks.

Everything emits a frequency, so do you, the question is, are we transmitters and receivers. A simple question, but the answer is not so simple.

I'm trained in physics (among other things).

When you say everything emits a frequency, what exactly do you mean? A frequency is a number of cycles of something per second. But cycles of what? What are we emitting, exactly? And how can I verify that I'm emitting the thing you say I'm emitting? Can I go to a shop and buy an appropriate "frequency detector"?
 
lol lol.

David Blaine was the person I think I was referencing,

No, you cannot buy a "frequency detector" for the brain.

Trained how in physics?
 
lol, thanks for the example but I am talking specifically about telepathy, or mental projection, I am not sure what I personally believe, it merely irritates me to see people being dismissed because they are not Randi approved.
How about being dismissed because they've presented nothing?
 
Actually this has become quite dull. I think I'm over it. Yes I think that telepsychics are phony. I think everyone getting paid to predict, describe or influence are just as phony as plastic. Speaking for myself, I would say I would never want to be famous for being perceived as a freak, not even for a million bucks. I wouldn't be the person on tv claiming to talk to ghosts, nor would I be the person seeking to prove some phenomena. That is not meant to say that I would not spend time speculating, hypothetically, and as long as there is a question, the experiment must go on, until all questions have been exausted and only a truth remains. I would be an observer, I would take notes, but I would never want to be in any kind of spotlight. I am admittedly not an ambitious person, but I am a curious person, and I am difficult to satisfy intellectually. I study as a hobby, so many things it's hard to get to them all.

I'll check back in some other time, and see where all of this goes.
 
begin1910:

No, you cannot buy a "frequency detector" for the brain.

Then how do you know that these frequencies you mentioned actually exist? If nobody can detect them, how do you know they are there at all?

You talked as if these frequencies were something everybody knows about and accepts as real. Now you're saying we can't detect them?

Trained how in physics?

Studied physics for a number of years at a university.

Actually this has become quite dull. I think I'm over it. Yes I think that telepsychics are phony. I think everyone getting paid to predict, describe or influence are just as phony as plastic. Speaking for myself, I would say I would never want to be famous for being perceived as a freak, not even for a million bucks. I wouldn't be the person on tv claiming to talk to ghosts, nor would I be the person seeking to prove some phenomena. That is not meant to say that I would not spend time speculating, hypothetically, and as long as there is a question, the experiment must go on, until all questions have been exausted and only a truth remains. I would be an observer, I would take notes, but I would never want to be in any kind of spotlight. I am admittedly not an ambitious person, but I am a curious person, and I am difficult to satisfy intellectually. I study as a hobby, so many things it's hard to get to them all.

I'll check back in some other time, and see where all of this goes.

Sounds like you've got the right approach. Good luck to you.
 
wow this thread really took a lot of heat. I stopped talking a long time ago because its no use im just going to make a fool of myself if i try to defend my opinion and i dont expect anyone to change their beliefs. I still believe my experience was unique because it was a very profound experience like nothing I've ever experienced but there is no use in arguing about it or trying to explain it without being able to directly observe the event as it happened in a scientific way. By the way the experience i had couldn't have possibly been a wild guess. Come on.... knowing that she came out of the bathroom as he was walking to a classroom and he was checking her out and i could perceive the event through his eyes and all the feelings associated with the event as if i was recollecting myself. Friend or no friend probability says that it's highly unlikely I would guess the memory he was recollecting at that time to the tee. I have also since that time read of experiences from people who avoid eye contact with people because they feel a deep feeling of connecting when they look in peoples eyes. That was the only way i was able to perceive was by looking into peoples eyes and then i would feel like i was connecting to their consciousness. It is something worthy of a scientific investigation.
 
You're still getting the wrong end of the stick.
There is no evidence to suggest that it's possible and a number of things to indicate that certainly isn't.


Then why did you raise the subject of being ridiculed?


Ah, so you missed what I actually said about delivering ridicule.


Looks like you're misunderstanding too.

Yes this is what I'm talking about. Ok, you're right, you're very clever, I'm stupid, you win, you're the big man, you're the bigshot, well done. If you need another little boost to your self esteem let me know.
 
Yes this is what I'm talking about. Ok, you're right, you're very clever, I'm stupid, you win, you're the big man, you're the bigshot, well done. If you need another little boost to your self esteem let me know.
So you're still misunderstanding.
If it makes you feel better to blame me then go ahead. But bear in mind that that's YOUR wounded pride talking. Mine wasn't involved and that's what you fail to consider.

It's not (and never was) about winning, being a big shot or self-esteem (on my part at least), which, probably, is why you "lose".
You appear to see every question and approach as a personal attack rather than the reality: the concept/ belief under discussion is the (my) target.
 
So you're still misunderstanding.
If it makes you feel better to blame me then go ahead. But bear in mind that that's YOUR wounded pride talking. Mine wasn't involved and that's what you fail to consider.

It's not (and never was) about winning, being a big shot or self-esteem (on my part at least), which, probably, is why you "lose".
You appear to see every question and approach as a personal attack rather than the reality: the concept/ belief under discussion is the (my) target.

Sure, champ.
 
If telepaths exist, sciforums should hire one as a typist to type out all our thoughts for us, that would really help my RSI and back ache problems.
 
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