My telepathic experience?

[Kellisness]

The annoying thing about having had what appear to be psychic moments myself...I can never know when it's going to happen, or even if it's going to happen, or even if my premonitions are going to turn out accurate.
It's just that there have been a very few times that I have known things I would have had absolutely no logical,not even subconscious way of knowing.

And I question these rare, weird events. A lot of them-well, I could have known, by subconsciously gathering clues.
This is why listening to one's "gut instinct" is often a good survival skill.
Anyway-
I think that's the thing about psychic events...they may be objective or subjective. They don't, as of yet, seem to be reproducible on command. They may or may not have personal significance to the person who's having them

I once had a premonition there would be a minor fender-bender at a particular corner near my apartment when I drove through the intersection, and that I should go the long way to work...this as I was walking out the door. I ignored the premonition, drove that way, and there was a fender-bender being cleared, partly blocking the intersection. Yes, it was an accurate premonition-OF SOMETHING COMPLETELY INCONSEQUENTIAL!

Why I couldn't have a nice accurate premonition-say, I should finally play the lottery NOW, here are the numbers I need to pick...

The irreproducibility pretty much damns psychic phenomena as unbelievable by a lot of people...and I can't fault them for that.

Why should you accept the reality of something so ephemeral?

OTOH, nobody likes to be sneered at and called a moron for believing in something that has happened to them.

All fair points. I think it's just one of those things that you can't really judge unless it's happened to you. We look around with our eyes, we see things, we believe they're there and we take them for granted, and there's a concensus reality. But some people, in my view, for whatever reason, are capable of perceiving things that most people are (currently) not able to. When I have a telepathic experience, I know that it's real just as much as we all know that what we generally see with our eyes is real. Telepathic and psychic people aren't crazy (and if they were, it begs the question of why they're ridiculed for having perceptions and views whereas doing the same to someone in, say, a mental hospital would be seen as shocking and uncivilised), they just see and know things that the majority don't. I think that when skeptics make fun of such people it's nothing more than a reflection of their own mentality. It really doesn't say anything about the psychic, rather it says a lot about the person doing the ridiculing.

 

[begin1910]

Okay then.

Here we go,

My opinions are my own, if I state them emphatically, it is because I believe it due to some past event that I witnessed or took part in my self. I have no intention, nor any desire to outline those events, except to say, I am convinced that there is something, I couldn't put my finger on it to define it in any way that could be considered academic because there is no way to do that.

If I could explain these things in full, someone else would have already done that.We do not live in a vacuum, we share notions, ideas and beliefs. As we evolve as a species we discover more than we had previously known about ourselves. Mental evolution takes work. Unfortunately, as we progress, there is extreme resistance, and occasionally, popular thought shifts ridiculously backward in fear of the unknown future and especially the known future. This is historically only temporary and a more valid truth takes hold as long as the society persists.

In a time when people generally understand the truth to be that there are no ghosts, witches or demons, a popular figure such as Sarah Palin actually went through a religious ritual to protect her from witchcraft and many people in society applaud her for it. This is an example of that resistance to a more valid "truth" that threatens traditional behavior. Notice I said behavior, it's okay to gradually change the beliefs of a society but when that belief becomes a threat to actual behavior, that's when the shift occurs.

This may seem like irrelevant crap, but here we are, arguing the capabilities of the human brain. A much debated subject, but science continues to study the regions of the brain and how they process information. We have come so far but brain research is far from the end of it's quest.

When we know all there is to know about the brain, we can stop speculating, but until then, these conversations will happen all over the world in varying degrees of seriousness.

I am out on ghosts, I don't believe in witches, witchcraft, UFO"S or demonic possession. I don't believe in most "mystery" subjects not because science has proven it impossible, but because simple theoretical questions cannot be convincingly answered with these subjects.

When it comes to the human brain, cognizance, and human interaction, I don't want to underestimate the possibilities.

Of course all of this is according to my very own personal standards and beliefs and come from my own personal understanding of events I was privy to.

I do not speak for anyone else, nor do I consider myself a part of any group or type of person. I certainly don't want to suggest that anyone is selfish, I speak in the hypothetical most of the time.

As for why haven't any of the "self described telepaths" helped mankind, I would ask, how do you know they haven't, and how do you propose telepathy could "help" mankind.

 

[Dywyddyr]

But some people, in my view, for whatever reason, are capable of perceiving things that most people are (currently) not able to.

And how would they do that? Their eyes are constructed differently? They see a different spectrum?

When I have a telepathic experience, I know that it's real

No. You believe it's real.

Telepathic and psychic people aren't crazy

Correct. Because there's no such thing as "telepathic people" OR "psychic people". Therefore, being non-existent, they can't be crazy.

I think that when skeptics make fun of such people it's nothing more than a reflection of their own mentality. It really doesn't say anything about the psychic, rather it says a lot about the person doing the ridiculing.

You consider asking for evidence is "making fun of" someone? You don't consider that repeatedly making claims that can't be supported is a worthwhile or reasonable endeavour? That resorting to insults, diversion and lies doesn't, eventually, deserve some ridicule?
And what, exactly, would you say it says about the person doing the "ridiculing"?

 

[James R]

There's no excuse for making fun of people who honestly believe they have had paranormal experiences.

Many people are quite genuine when they say they have had paranormal experiences. They really did experience something, and they have no other explanations for what they experienced. However, we must be very careful to avoid concluding from this that a non-psychic explanation is impossible. People are very often mistaken about what they think they've seen, felt, heard or otherwise sensed. People are prone to looking for causative explanations for things that may well be coincidences. Sometimes, real-world facts are simply misinterpreted to be something other than what they are.

Isolated telepathic experiences are impossible to test scientifically. If they are unpredictable and uncontrollable, then there's little that science can really examine there. But when it comes to people who claim to have controllable telepathic powers that they can use at will, that's a completely different matter. Such people should be able to demonstrate the powers they claim to have under controlled conditions (controlled to eliminate deliberate fraud and effects other than the ones claimed, that is).

 

[Kellisness]

And how would they do that? Their eyes are constructed differently? They see a different spectrum?


No. You believe it's real.


Correct. Because there's no such thing as "telepathic people" OR "psychic people". Therefore, being non-existent, they can't be crazy.


You consider asking for evidence is "making fun of" someone? You don't consider that repeatedly making claims that can't be supported is a worthwhile or reasonable endeavour? That resorting to insults, diversion and lies doesn't, eventually, deserve some ridicule?
And what, exactly, would you say it says about the person doing the "ridiculing"?

You hold a belief in which there's no such thing as telepathy. It's your belief. Own it. I don't consider asking questions ridiculing, please don't put words into my mouth. You know very well that I didn't say that at all. If you hold a belief that those who hold different beliefs to the ones you hold deserve ridicule and you feel a strong compulsion to administer it, go ahead, but at some point the other person may feel no need to engage with you. Unlike many people, I'm not here to try and convince anyone of anything. Misunderstanding that may lead you to misunderstand a lot.

 

[Stryder]

Kellisness, If I had, I certainly wouldn't tell people about it.

Would you? Be realistic.

I would suggest that would be totally down to whether you want to dress it up as woo-woo fluff (Astrology, Tarot, Ouija) or try to be Scientific and ascertain as to the cause that generated the effect.

Would you share it with the world? Well you can share your experiences, but for the most part you'd probably not get the support you might like from explaining it. Some will laugh, some will persecute, some will just ignore, At the end of the day the only person that truly observes anything is yourself.

For instance I know that our governments have the capacity to use radiology to use people as biological listening devices and even manipulate the reverberation of the skull to effect the inner ear and manipulate the energy stored in our cells to create visuals. (It's not too dissimilar to how RFID implants can gain a charge from electromagnetic fluctuations but causes the body to feel drained of energy.)

I know they work in teams, they won't give you their names, "rank" or number, or their current whereabouts. This is where they are crap at black ops because they don't follow the scientific method and they don't follow the route that students and universities would be required to in regards to Ethics, They might as well just state what they are.

Obviously deception is what there business entails, so if they want to try to hide up, then they will try to pretend to be working for a different government by using people to talk in different languages.

This is only the case when you identify them for who they are, if they were unobserved, then they will go all out to take initial errors in thought or judgement and exploit them to fully developed delusions. (At that point they like to use the Metal Health services as their extended wet nurse which they don't have to disclose their involvement or pay.)

Personally I now tar all governments with the same brush,rather than believing one is responsible and finding out it's another, it's far easier just to get them to realise they are all at fault and all to blame.

It's enough to turn a grown man to become Rōnin.

 

[Kellisness]

There's no excuse for making fun of people who honestly believe they have had paranormal experiences.

Many people are quite genuine when they say they have had paranormal experiences. They really did experience something, and they have no other explanations for what they experienced. However, we must be very careful to avoid concluding from this that a non-psychic explanation is impossible. People are very often mistaken about what they think they've seen, felt, heard or otherwise sensed. People are prone to looking for causative explanations for things that may well be coincidences. Sometimes, real-world facts are simply misinterpreted to be something other than what they are.

Isolated telepathic experiences are impossible to test scientifically. If they are unpredictable and uncontrollable, then there's little that science can really examine there. But when it comes to people who claim to have controllable telepathic powers that they can use at will, that's a completely different matter. Such people should be able to demonstrate the powers they claim to have under controlled conditions (controlled to eliminate deliberate fraud and effects other than the ones claimed, that is).

Unfortunately, we live in a world where some people feel they have an excuse to ridicule others. Fortunately, it's easy to see it coming a mile off.

 

[Dywyddyr]

You hold a belief in which there's no such thing as telepathy. It's your belief.

You're still getting the wrong end of the stick.
There is no evidence to suggest that it's possible and a number of things to indicate that certainly isn't.

I don't consider asking questions ridiculing, please don't put words into my mouth. You know very well that I didn't say that at all.

Then why did you raise the subject of being ridiculed?

If you hold a belief that those who hold different beliefs to the ones you hold deserve ridicule and you feel a strong compulsion to administer it, go ahead

Ah, so you missed what I actually said about delivering ridicule.

Unlike many people, I'm not here to try and convince anyone of anything. Misunderstanding that may lead you to misunderstand a lot.

Looks like you're misunderstanding too.

 

[chimpkin]

Telepathic and psychic people aren't crazy

Well, I am crazy, just not generally delusional...

What I was sort of trying to get at...the nature of these phenomena is such that, whether objective or subjective (and I'm not going to even take a clear position on that...since it's not clear to me, even though I've had some experiences), you can't scientifically prove that this stuff happens. Unless you want to take sociological surveys of people saying "This happened to me!" as proof, and, face it, no person who's hard-science oriented is going to swallow it.

So any discussion about the reality/nonreality of said phenomena's always going to deteriorate to an adult version of:

"Are NOT!"
"ARE TOO!"
"You're a POOPYHEAD!"
"Well, YOU'RE A DINGLEBERRY!"

...And, well, yanno, do we all have to go here?

Look, Dywddyr wants reproducible evidence. We won't be able to give it to him. Nature of the phenomena, as I said earlier.

So he has a perfectly legit reason to disbelieve in psychic occurences, and if I'd never had strange stuff happen I wouldn't believe it either.

I don't think that's a reason to get ticked at him.

 

[begin1910]

The reason to get ticked is because while you can agree to disagree, he cannot. He is clearly a lower form of the species...

 

[Dywyddyr]

So he has a perfectly legit reason to disbelieve in psychic occurences, and if I'd never had strange stuff happen I wouldn't believe it either.

Um,

I'm on record here as having had "psychic" events myself - but I just file them under "Weird Shit Requiring Further investigation" since it is known that the brain behaves in strange ways.

Me. Post #6.

I too am a sceptic and have "met" a ghost, seen UFOs (UAPs!) and been "psychic" for a period.

Me. Here.

This is a continual problem. Those who believe persistently assume that those who don't agree with their beliefs have never had anything weird happen to them.

This is untrue. It simply turns out that I (for one at least) aren't prepared to make claims based on experiences that cannot be reproduced but can be shown to have other possible explanations.

The reason to get ticked is because while you can agree to disagree, he cannot. He is clearly a lower form of the species...

And back to the insults.
Well done.

 

[begin1910]

lol, you earned it.

So, filing under "needs further investigation" but you never investigate, you just dismisss.

Yeah, that's very scientific.


What if you had experiences that could be reproduced, how many times would you have to reproduce it on your own before you understood it was real?

At what point would you share this reproducable experience?

With whom would you share it?

What if it didn't work when you tried to reproduce it for an audience, but worked again when you were alone?

Would you discontinue your investigation?

Would you try to find out why it only worked when you were alone and nobody knew what you were doing?

How could you classify an event?

Premonition is certainly useless in most cases, there is very little to look to other than mental projection, but how would you study it?

What controls would you use?

What if it didn't fit your structure out of ignorance?


btw, you never met a ghost, you are tripping.

 

[begin1910]

and one more, what if there were witnesses to some deliberate experience, and those witnesses repeated the event to everyone they knew according to the way they perceived it. What would that mean?

 

[Dywyddyr]

lol, you earned it.

I earned it because you failed to provide evidence for specific claims you made?
How does that work?

So, filing under "needs further investigation" but you never investigate, you just dismisss.

Which part of "cannot be reproduced" did you miss?

What if you had experiences that could be reproduced, how many times would you have to reproduce it on your own before you understood it was real?

I'd want a proper study done. And elimination of other other possibilities before I declared that it was "telepathy".

At what point would you share this reproducable experience?

Once the study was complete.

With whom would you share it?

Depends how far the paper gets distributed.

What if it didn't work when you tried to reproduce it for an audience, but worked again when you were alone?

Then I'd certainly suspect that it wasn't a genuine example of telepathy (or whatever).

Would you discontinue your investigation?

I'd go to a doctor/ psychiatrist.

Would you try to find out why it only worked when you were alone and nobody knew what you were doing?

With what? I can't afford a lab (or assistants - although they, presumably, would make it "go away").

How could you classify an event?

What event?

Premonition is certainly useless in most cases, there is very little to look to other than mental projection, but how would you study it?

A diary would be a good start. And I wouldn't forget to include all the times it turned out to be wrong.

What controls would you use?

Controls? For premonition? Record EVERY "premonition". In detail.

What if it didn't fit your structure out of ignorance?

What?

btw, you never met a ghost, you are tripping.

Right. I'm tripping because of a "claim" I made, but I'm expected to take yours seriously. (See how it works?)
Maybe you missed the quote marks...
I don't (and didn't at the time) for one second believe it was a ghost, but the experience fitted the classical description. Hence "weird shit".

Addendum:

what if there were witnesses to some deliberate experience, and those witnesses repeated the event to everyone they knew according to the way they perceived it. What would that mean?

Not much. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

 

[begin1910]

So you can't afford a lab, but if you could, how would you proceed?

How and who would you convince to do a "proper study" and what would that entail, this may be redundant, but I am really interested in hearing how you would proceed to convince someone your event was worthy of a "proper study"

Who would write the paper and control it's distribution?

If you saw a psychiatrist, and they prescribed welbutrin, how long would you take it if it didn't stop your telepathic experiences from happening? Would you torture yourself further and for how long? Would you decide that you were insane and check yourself into the nuthut?

Controls for telepathy, not premonition.

and no, your ghost story is not the same thing as studying/generating/witnessing brain capabilities at all. Seriously.

If eyewitness testimony is unreliable, why would anyone believe the "laboratory assistants" you cannot afford, when, theoretically, you would be paying them. That is what tears credibility from the pages of so many "proper studies" today.

 

[chimpkin]

Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

Yeppers...one of the ways I test myself sometimes is to glance at someone...then later think about what they had on, and go check to see if I recollected correctly.

Often, no.

That, and when you see stuff in dim light, there's a blind spot in the middle of your field of vision where your optic nerve connects.

Meaning your brain will sketch in details in dim light thatyou aren't actually seeing.

To see something correctly you have to look *just* to the side of it in dim light.

And, no, I hadn't noticed that Dwydd had also had strange stuff happen to him...comes from skimming...(I had a delivery of instrument trays this hour too...)

The"Gray-file" stuff, as I call it myself sometimes, as in "I'm just gonna gray-file that one"...

Yeah, I haven't kept careful notes...but some of my forebodings-were just wrong. So not always accurate either.

 

[Dywyddyr]

So you can't afford a lab, but if you could, how would you proceed?

Randi. He's got the money. And he'd pay out $1m if it turned out to be true.

How and who would you convince to do a "proper study" and what would that entail, this may be redundant, but I am really interested in hearing how you would proceed to convince someone your event was worthy of a "proper study"

Randi. As first choice. I'm sure there are other people (e.g. relatively creditable scientists*) whose contact information I could get hold off the net.

Who would write the paper and control it's distribution?

Since it would be a scientific study then they'd write the paper and distribute it.

If you saw a psychiatrist, and they prescribed welbutrin, how long would you take it if it didn't stop your telepathic experiences from happening? Would you torture yourself further and for how long? Would you decide that you were insane and check yourself into the nuthut?

You mean wellbutrin? Why would I expect an anti-depressant to prevent telepathy? Get someone else to check it over, maybe prescribe something different.
If it were shown after tests that the phenomenon was definitely not real then I'd get counselling and/ or treatment.

Controls for telepathy, not premonition.

Double blind. For a start. What "evidence" do you have that it's real. In other words how does it manifest?

and no, your ghost story is not the same thing as studying/generating/witnessing brain capabilities at all. Seriously.

According to you. NOW you're beginning to see how it works.

If eyewitness testimony is unreliable, why would anyone believe the "laboratory assistants" you cannot afford, when, theoretically, you would be paying them. That is what tears credibility from the pages of so many "proper studies" today.

Oh dear. You're evidently unaware of the significant difference between eyewitnesses and qualified observers of a measured test. (Or, better still, series of tests).

* Note I say "relatively creditable" because most reputable scientists won't even touch it. It'd have to be a case of working up the ladder. Start with one step above fringe and go from there.

 

[begin1910]

Telepathy is not seen, I think many of these comments are about premonition, and not telepathy. An eyewitness to a telepathic event would be someone who was there when the the telepathic event/revelation about someone none of them, including the telepath, knew was produced, and then the result was random, yet accurate and also witnessed by the same people.

Some might believe it was set up, and others might not. All would tell the story in their own way. If genuine, it would be quite an event.

Said witnesses might also be present when the activity was used in a different way, with 100% accurate everytime results.

How would you convince a serious researcher this was a valid study if it could be reproduced at will, anytime, on any random unaware person in the proper state of mind?

 

[begin1910]

The Amazing Randi is not one step above the fringe, he's just another kook. I am not sure why you respect him so much, perhaps it's the million.

 

[quinnsong]

Well, I am crazy, just not generally delusional...

What I was sort of trying to get at...the nature of these phenomena is such that, whether objective or subjective (and I'm not going to even take a clear position on that...since it's not clear to me, even though I've had some experiences), you can't scientifically prove that this stuff happens. Unless you want to take sociological surveys of people saying "This happened to me!" as proof, and, face it, no person who's hard-science oriented is going to swallow it.

So any discussion about the reality/nonreality of said phenomena's always going to deteriorate to an adult version of:

"Are NOT!"
"ARE TOO!"
"You're a POOPYHEAD!"
"Well, YOU'RE A DINGLEBERRY!"

...And, well, yanno, do we all have to go here?

Look, Dywddyr wants reproducible evidence. We won't be able to give it to him. Nature of the phenomena, as I said earlier.

So he has a perfectly legit reason to disbelieve in psychic occurences, and if I'd never had strange stuff happen I wouldn't believe it either.

I don't think that's a reason to get ticked at him.

Very good point Chimpkin,

My appearance on this forum was my desire for a scientific explanation for seeing a softball disappear in midair. Which was also observed by my brother since we were playing catch! Many years later still no explanation but we know this happened, but asking others to believe this is futile and I guess rightly so. I cannot rproduce this phenomena and as was pointed out the scientific possibility was almost nil.I got the usual ridicule about drugs being good in Florida but as you pointed out it is best to have a sense of humour about such things as currently they are not verifiable by scientists or others for that matter. I have had other weird happenings in my life but I chose to reveal the craziest one! lol