My Daughter's FaceBook Account

you people are seriously NUTS, she is less that a year away from legally being able to walk away from you and there isnt a THING you can do about it. At 15 its game over, thats the point where THEY chose where they live, not you. Seriously you need to start interacting on an adult level and you are still acting like 5 year olds YOURSELVES. As for physical violence works right up to the point they punch you back (or her BF does and i wouldnt blame him IN THE LEAST). Oh well, paybacks a bitch, when you want to see your grand children, when you want a good nursing home, hell when you want help with the chirstmas lights and they walk away remember that YOU, THE ADULT started this.

Oh shut up!:rolleyes:

Seriously, shut up!

She is 14 years of age and her father is concerned that she may be entering into something she may very well not be ready for. As her father he has every right to hope that she waits until she grows up before she takes that step. And he has every right to speak to her about his expectations. He knows her. He brought up her. He is her father. That is what parents do. You speak with your children and you hope like hell some of it sinks in and they do the right thing. You try to cater for all scenarios.

You demand that he interact with her on an adult level. Yet here you are acting like a 5 year old with you 'she'll show you' crap. Grow up. You don't know anything about his relationship with his daughter or hers with him. You are putting your own twisted little views and demanding that others do as you say. Contrary to what you may believe, he is actually being a parent. When you have children, you are free to parent them as you wish. If you want to let your 14 year old have sex on your couch in the living room, that is your decision. But don't expect others to want that for their children. Some parents, believe it or not, want their children to grow up before they make those kinds of decisions and be able to be responsible. I know, it's a foreign concept for you, but that is parenting.

And this:

I will make a bet with you (or a few)

If you do this:
1) She wont be a virgin by the end of the week
2) that will be the end of any relationship you have with her, she MIGHT still have one with her mum but i wouldnt count on it
3) You will have ruined her first experiance with sex because insted of it being about her loving or lusting after someone so much she wants to do it, you have made it a way to get back at you for being an Arse
4) by the end of the year she will PROBABLY be pregant (acording to the statistics of harm minimisation vs abstance sex ed
5) by 15 when nither you, the cops or the courts can do a thing to stop her she will leave home which probably means she will be living on the streets and taking drugs and prostituting herself. This is EXACTLY what happened to my best friend.
You really do not have a single clue, do you?

Either that or you're some sick and twisted little man.
 
I've never spanked the kid. She still has a lock on her door. She's probably skyping with her boyfriend as we speak. We've talked about the issue. It has been resolved for the larger part. The only question is, how much more action should I take?

I would suggest that you just keep a close eye, but at the same time give her reasons to trust and love you, to feel that she can come to you with her problems and for reassurance.
 
Sheesh! the thread you offered has 13+ pages. It's kind of a late, but I can appreciate your initial post on that thread.

As for my view on the benefits of faith, I think those people have an advantage in that, in their minds, they are going to a far better place when they die; whereas, I have only absolute oblivion staring back at me when I'm on my death bed. Again, it is late so I didn't watch your videos. I just heard the newspaper hit the front of my house, so I know it's getting time for bed.

But I would still maintain that you follow all of those links. Your view on the oblivion of death will be replaced by a feeling of amazement and wonder, joy and luck. As a non-believer, these are a must to prevent you from the cynicism or fear that might come with non-belief.
 
Oh shut up!:rolleyes:

Seriously, shut up!

She is 14 years of age and her father is concerned that she may be entering into something she may very well not be ready for. As her father he has every right to hope that she waits until she grows up before she takes that step. And he has every right to speak to her about his expectations. He knows her. He brought up her. He is her father. That is what parents do. You speak with your children and you hope like hell some of it sinks in and they do the right thing. You try to cater for all scenarios.

You demand that he interact with her on an adult level. Yet here you are acting like a 5 year old with you 'she'll show you' crap. Grow up. You don't know anything about his relationship with his daughter or hers with him. You are putting your own twisted little views and demanding that others do as you say. Contrary to what you may believe, he is actually being a parent. When you have children, you are free to parent them as you wish. If you want to let your 14 year old have sex on your couch in the living room, that is your decision. But don't expect others to want that for their children. Some parents, believe it or not, want their children to grow up before they make those kinds of decisions and be able to be responsible. I know, it's a foreign concept for you, but that is parenting.

And this:


You really do not have a single clue, do you?

Either that or you're some sick and twisted little man.

you mean the fact that I have actually just been through this with a girl under our care within the last few years? Seriously pull your head out of your ass bells, you have NO idea what your talking about. We were the guardians for my 13 year old sister in law until she turned 15 (because THATs the age where kids become emancipated in Australia since it seems you dont know ANYTHING about the law in spite of your claims to be a lawyer) and after that she was still living with us until she turned 18. Its sad to watch idiots such as yourself who think that they have some sort of ownership of there childs sexuality, its an attitude which harkens back to the stone age where children were property to be sold and its sickerning, especially comming from YOU bells
 
you mean the fact that I have actually just been through this with a girl under our care within the last few years? Seriously pull your head out of your ass bells, you have NO idea what your talking about.

And you do? What? Because you got to look after your sister-inlaw? Is this the same sister-inlaw you later abandoned after she reported she had been raped and you and your other half disbelieved her ? That sister-inlaw? That turned out well, didn't it?

Now speaking of not knowing what they are talking about...

(because THATs the age where kids become emancipated in Australia since it seems you dont know ANYTHING about the law in spite of your claims to be a lawyer) and after that she was still living with us until she turned 18
Emancipation laws [ie Age of Majority laws] Australia is 18, not 15. The only country I know of where it is 15 is Iran. So unless you are living in Iran, it would seem you don't know what you are talking about. Which is why your sister-inlaw had the misfortune of having to put up with you until she turned 18. The only way she could have emancipated from you and her sister, whom I presume were her legal guardians up to that point, would have been to go to court to do so.

Legal responsibility ages, which is different from what we are discussing now, is 15 (ie criminal responsibility) and in Queensland it is 16. And in those cases, it is determined by the court whether they can be tried as adults for a particular crime they committed. Otherwise, the age of full legal responsibility is actually 18 years of age.

This differs of course if you mean age of consent, which is between 16 and 18 depending on which state you live in.

So I would strongly suggest, Asguard, before you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, that you go out and get a clue.

Its sad to watch idiots such as yourself who think that they have some sort of ownership of there childs sexuality, its an attitude which harkens back to the stone age where children were property to be sold and its sickerning, especially comming from YOU bells
It scares me to think that you are actually trying to breed. Being a parent is about teaching your children to grow up to be responsible adults. It is about setting boundaries about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. And yes, a parent telling his 14 year old girl that he would prefer she waits before she has sex is being a responsible parent. A parent telling his 14 year old daughter to not do anything rashly and to be sure before she does have sex and to only have sex when she is ready to take that step and to use protection, etc.. That is called responsible parenting.

Now you may be the type of parent to give your daughter a condom because she's starting to grow boobs and boys may want to have sex with her. But a responsible parent would teach their daughter to respec their body and to own their body and to make sure they are making the right decision for themselves. In an age where STD rates amongst teenagers is on the rise and in a time where teenage pregnancies are too common, I would say that Bowser is erring on the side of caution by expecting his daughter to do the right thing by herself instead of bonking her first boyfriend because her friends think it's cool. Now obviously you would not do that. From what we can see here, you don't believe in parenting and setting boundaries. And frankly, it is your attitude which had young girls being sold to men as child brides.
 
you people are seriously NUTS, she is less that a year away from legally being able to walk away from you and there isnt a THING you can do about it. At 15 its game over, thats the point where THEY chose where they live, not you. Seriously you need to start interacting on an adult level and you are still acting like 5 year olds YOURSELVES. As for physical violence works right up to the point they punch you back (or her BF does and i wouldnt blame him IN THE LEAST). Oh well, paybacks a bitch, when you want to see your grand children, when you want a good nursing home, hell when you want help with the chirstmas lights and they walk away remember that YOU, THE ADULT started this.

I already went over this. . . Sure, I agree. If they don't like it, and she wants to have sex, MOVE OUT!

My folks always taught me that you shouldn't be having sex till you are able to do this, or have a strategy to do this. Seems when people engage in relationships today, it is always about "me, me, me," not about love. What they have is, mutual masturbation. What they have, is making each other feel good, it isn't a selfless love.

Relationships that involve sex are ADULT relationships. People under eighteen are MINORS and should not be having sex, it is that simple. You have been receiving some very bad advice. Your gut instinct is the correct instinct. If you went to any number of tribes throughout this planet and asked them the same question, "should my daughter and her boyfriend who are unable to take care of themselves be engaged in an adult relationship?" every mature society on the planet would give you a unanimous resounding NO! I question the selfishness of the advice you have gotten in this thread (wynn excepted.) The ill informed wisdom of "well. . . they will find a way to do it anyway. . . " Crap, ill informed crap. It is your job to lay down the law and find a way to make it so in such a way that they don't.

YOU asguard, sound like you are still very immature yourself. You want, what you want, when you want, how you want it, and everyone else be damned in the process in your quest to get it. You have no notion of selfless unconditional love. So the very notion that anyone would attempt to keep you from self-gratifying your sexual urges to protect you from yourself you find patently offensive. Either that, or you're sub-consciously jealous that someone cares so much about this little girl and no one gave a damn about you that much to stop you from your own stupidity. Now lay off.

skywalkerbitch.jpg
 
This and That

Asguard

Statistically, at least among American women, females who become sexually active at fourteen or younger see, according to various studies, up to triple the risk for cervical cancer. This could be for any number of reasons, including increased HPV risk from diversity of partners.

A fourteen year-old girl might have a decent rack, shapely buttocks, and pubic hair, but her body is still not fully mature. Nor is her brain—not just her mind, but her brain—fully mature.

In the States, at least, socialization among teenagers is out of sync with physiological development. The psychosocial challenges facing our youth often demand more than their brains and bodies are prepared to cope with. Parents have long worried that "kids are growing up too fast", and one can reasonably wonder if the gap between psychosocial and physiological is widening, and if that asynchronicity is accelerating.

Perhaps it is different Down Under, but our neighbor's daughter is American, so I would sooner apply paradigms from our side of the Pacific than yours.

Some have chosen to criticize Bowser's snooping, but whatever one thinks, he is already in the situation, and cannot take it back or conceal the potential error. The point now ought, in my opinion, to be the construction of trust between adolescent and parent.

And, yes, I'm one who thinks it was probably a mistake to snoop. Specifically, I agree that a parent has the right to certain information about a child's behavior, but I also think that after the fact is a problematic time to introduce the assertion of that right. A friend lets her twelve year-old have a Facebook page, but I can guarantee you that the daughter knows in advance that her mother is watching closely. There is no point in me criticizing how Bowser came by the information. As I said, he's already in it, and the updates suggest that the situation is progressing out of his immediate ability to control. My advice, that he should plot a course that will get you to a place where you can be useful within the scope of her trust, stands; indeed, it might be the only realistic option he has left. Many criticize parents who try to be a "friend" to kids instead of the authority figure, but that cannot be a static standard. In my view, he must adapt to changing circumstances in order to be able to exert constructive influence in her psychosocial development.

Ultimately, parental duty to a child's physical and mental wellbeing trumps privacy in socialization. There are, of course, boundaries to that, but a Facebook page, at fourteen, does not exceed those limits.

I noticed you leapt to prostitution. The point stands out like a naked drunk crashing a Presbyterian Sunday morning. In the States, the more common nightmare projection is that a disgruntled daughter will marry young in order to get away from her parents, and wind up pumping out babies in a derelict marriage that spectrally dooms her future. I've had some moral disagreements with Bowser in the past, but I don't think those parts of his outlook that I have considered erroneous are so severe as to transform the story into a runaway turning tricks to survive. It's a bit melodramatic, to say the least.

I wouldn't disagree that abstinence pledges are, at the very least, unsettling. But a parent has every reason to advise abstinence. It will be part of what I tell my daughter when the time comes, just like I'll tell her to avoid cigarettes and booze. Of course one should not be absolute about these things. But growing up is not the only learning process taking place here. Parenting is a blind voyage into wild and even hostile territory. Each parent-child relationship is undiscovered country, no matter how much the psychologists, anthropologists, and medical doctors can tell us about the general terrain. To wit, I recently learned a new set of assertions about pubescent development in relation to mind and brain. The illustration was useful; the introduction of myelination into my outlook was exceptionally enlightening. But, still, that's only a general topography; the particulars of the road ahead will only be known when illuminated by the headlights—that is, it's a very immediate, short-term demand. It does not do well for anyone, of any given theory on parenting, to blaze screaming along the unlit highway in the foggy midnight of human understanding. Each road is different, even if the signs all read the same. But like the rabbit I killed with my dad's truck when I was seventeen, it's generally too late if your caution depends entirely on what you can see in the headlights. (I hit that thing at eighty miles an hour; the best I can say is that it was a mercifully quick death for the rabbit.)

It is not that I am without sympathy to your principles, but I think you're letting your emotions get ahead of you.

What is one's purpose in taking part in this discussion? To judge and feel superior? Or to offer our honest advice? Bowser and I have had many disagreements before, but this is his kid we're talking about. It takes a village, and all that. If anything we can tell him helps strengthen his relationship with his daughter, and thus help her find a progressive path through life, well, at least we have done that.

• • •​

The Esotericist

The Esotericist said:

WHY does she deserve freedom? What has she done to deserve freedom? Has she gotten a drivers license? How about a job?

Increasing degrees of freedom are part of a functional growth pattern. The question of whether or not a fourteen year old deserves freedom is not necessarily appropriate. There are plenty of parents who view their children in such a judgmental light; they are making the parenting experience about the parents, when it is supposed to be about the child.

What freedom is appropriate according to her psychological and physiological development in relation to the demands of socialization? That is a question that is about the child. And it is also one without a consistent answer.

Control, or guidance? They are not always the same thing.

Yes yes, we know Tiassa. He is an affront to the collective, how dare he. He and his kind should be quickly be put on some "soma" shouldn't he?

I'm not certain that would do any good.

"We can make a new one with the greatest ease-as many as we like. Unorthodoxy threatens more than the life of a mere individual; it strikes at Society itself."
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 10

You know, most of us found that novel to be a warning for the up and coming times of tyranny, not a plan for State ushered Utopia. You weren't meant to take it so literally.

The irony of you quoting Huxley at me is nearly laughable as a general proposition. When one considers that you're doing so in defense of a man who quite apparently considers conformity and obedience to authority the utmost—that video is entirely about him, and what he demands, and what he thinks he deserves—the irony verges on toxicity.
 
It is about setting boundaries about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. And yes, a parent telling his 14 year old girl that he would prefer she waits before she has sex is being a responsible parent. A parent telling his 14 year old daughter to not do anything rashly and to be sure before she does have sex and to only have sex when she is ready to take that step and to use protection, etc.. That is called responsible parenting.

@Bells

prefer?

clearly that is unacceptable, is it not?

I thought your post was excellent, but I really think, if as a parent, you believe that the law should be followed, and it is psychologically harmful for minors to have sex before they are 18, then one should tell them, while you are living under my roof, NO SEX.

Why this bandying about the issue? This, "prefer" nonsense sends mixed signals. If you do this to kids, it shows weakness and they just won't take you seriously. . . . not with what the schools teach, the media preaches, and what they learn from their peers. When are being bombarded, conditioned, and yes, even "brainwashed" by intellectual, cultural, and political elites against what we KNOW is right.

The foundation of society is families. If the state can destroy families, IT has more power. The way to destroy families is to increase the rates of teen pregnancy. Who does the increase in rates of teen pregnancies favor? The State. It leads to more people dependent on the State. More people dependent on the State leads to more power for the State. The media is largely a State controlled and supported entity, so the message they get through the media. . . Teen sex and teen pregnancy is A 'OK. Aren't there shows now on TV glorifying teen pregnancy?

Nope, he needs to put his foot down. If he believe it is not OK for his daughter to have sex, he should tell her. No wiffle waffling, flip flopping about on this issue, it is too important.
 
The irony of you quoting Huxley at me is nearly laughable as a general proposition. When one considers that you're doing so in defense of a man who quite apparently considers conformity and obedience to authority the utmost—that video is entirely about him, and what he demands, and what he thinks he deserves—the irony verges on toxicity.
Poor Tiassa. . . a man grows long in the tooth. :p Can't remember what that book was really about. It was about the STATE imposing conformity and obedience to its standards. I don't believe the State holds many of the same views as this gentleman. ha ha ha ha.

I'll not debate you in your analysis that the book is about "conformity and obedience to authority" so in that, you might see some irony, but it has nothing to do with individuals raising children as they see fit. If each individual raised their child to respect their wishes, each child would be an individual, with a unique sense of morality, not a drone with subservience to the State.

I don't think he considers conformity and obedience to authority the utmost, what I believe is going on in the video, is what goes on in many families across America, Children have become spoiled, entitled brats. They feel that they are not part of a family, and do not have to contribute as part of a family. He works much harder than his daughter all week long to give her shelter, clothing, food, and all the toys and gadgets she wants. The only things he is obliged to give her by being her father is the basic necessities. If she were to have only those things, a very unhappy girl she would probably be.

You want REAL irony? The laptop she was doing that bitching on, HE bought her. The Facebook that she was communicating through, he paid for the internet access. The debugging program and computer servicing, he paid for!!! So he asks her to help him around that house, and all he gets is grief, disrespect, and attitude. I don't think he was going over board to serve some back, why shouldn't he embarrass her back? She's a selfish brat with an attitude problem, isn't she? Maybe now she'll get a job and see how hard life really is. But you know what, there AREN'T any jobs for kids her age, they are all being worked by adults now because we've had such a shitty regime the past four years! lol Now she has really screwed the pooch. Her life has gotten a whole lot worse b/c of being a whiny brat. :p
 
Let this be a reminder to you all to not leave a computer logged in to your Facebook account unattended. If you need more reminders, go to openbook and do a search for the word dicks. You'll see page after page of people with unfortunate updates that are the creation of pranksters who happened across just such a computer.

If you want to be horrified, do a search for WPWW.
 
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We talked with her this afternoon after I finished hanging a door in the kitchen. She again assured us that she's waiting at least till she's 17. I, of course, told her that 21 is a better age. I mentioned contraceptives and she told me that she can get them when she enters high school next year. Kids have resources that I didn't.

I don't know why they are talking so much trash on FaceBook. That stuff must be killing her boyfriend. It just seems dangerous and counter productive. Anyway, all seems to be well. We will see if she neglects to log out of her FaceBook account again. My guess is she will make sure I never get the opportunity.

Thank you for your thoughts, people.
 
This has been an interesting thread. I'm still not sure what the answer is. Each child has their own personality and it's sort of hard to make a call as to what to do. My sister she seemed pretty normal for all outwards appearances. Then puberty struck! One day she (14) ran away with her boyfriend (15), left the state of MI, got pregnant and obviously dropped out of school. She had had all the birds and bees talks. Was independent and quite knowledgeable. I was living overseas and those were some insanely trying times. She came back home a month later. She then decided to get pregnant again at 16 because she wanted her kids to be close in age. Having grown up poor she knew what life she had in store for her and her kids if she didn't get herself sorted. Funny enough, it all just worked itself out. Sure, her boyfriend isn't the best in terms of he's f_ing lazy whitetrash. But, he's a nice person, honest at home, and she pretty much runs his life for him. She gives him the allowance. She went on to get a Masters Degree and works in the hospital and says she's so happy she had kids when she did. I always wanted her to have "the college experience" I had - because I loved it so much. But, she wanted to grow up and so she did. She doesn't seem to feel she missed out on much, if anything, and is happy she's a young mother and didn't have kids when she was in her 30s (or 40s) like some of her other friends who are so much older than their children.

Things will work out.


IMO it behooves parents to build logic-based intellectual frameworks so that as new information is acquired it's placed into this world view/schema. Ha, I hope that didn't sound idiotic :p Think of it like this. I saw a father in the mall dealing with his child (who was pointing at some cookies he wanted). The father thrust the kids head at the sky and said "God said NO". The kids head plopped right back down to the cookie (tantalizingly just on the other side of the glass). Again, the father tilted the kids head skyward and said "God said NO". This went on for awhile. I left. The point is, YOU build your child's world-view. If you build it logically, they will (hopefully) make logical decisions (many of us here spontaneously did this, most people don't).

Second point is evidence. There's some really good evidence that children winning arguments with their parents is GOOD for children IF it's logical and constructive. As a matter of fact, 14 year girls NEED to argue with their parents and need to be allowed to "win" the argument IF they're being logical. This usually happens b/w daughter and mother. It's an evolutionary adaptation. It allows the young girl to test her mental skills at forming a counter-opinion and arguing it in the safety of the family. As she gains ground and confidence she'll apply these skills to the real world. In families where "Mother is Right", those girls often lack the ability to argue against peer-pressure. See, they've given it a go at home and it doesn't work. So, they don't really learn how to do it - and so they often give in to peer pressure in the same way they gave in at home.

That's just some science I was reading a few months back. It's something to keep in mind.

Lastly, I wonder if keeping the PC in the livingroom isn't a good idea? No?




*Note: The following is one big aside not be read but by the really really really board*
One thing I found interesting that most all of us seem to accept that Bowser is the one who has the right to make the call on how he will be a parent. Which seems pretty obvious doesn't it? Imagine if that freedom (to parent) was not considered self-evident? Actually, it's a fine line. According to a few posts here, it seems some people would like to see the State arbitrarily decide when Bowser (the Parent) is no longer free to "legally" parent his own child. As if one day he's a parent and the next he's a .... ??? State authorized Legal something or other? Yea, pretty interesting as to what is the moral thing for society to do? Should the State (a bureaucrat) decide for parents how to deal with this situation? Or should we leave the role with the People? Perhaps we could apply this line of reasoning to other aspects of society?
 
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Asguard

Statistically, at least among American women, females who become sexually active at fourteen or younger see, according to various studies, up to triple the risk for cervical cancer. This could be for any number of reasons, including increased HPV risk from diversity of partners.

Lets look at this logically, what age is the cervical cancer vacine given and how universal is it to these studies? Furthermore in the studies what kinds of sexual education did the girls recive?

A fourteen year-old girl might have a decent rack, shapely buttocks, and pubic hair, but her body is still not fully mature. Nor is her brain—not just her mind, but her brain—fully mature.
Out of interest what age were YOU when you lost your virginity? (that goes for everyone). I know a lot of ADULTS who really aren't mature and shouldn't be let out without a keeper and I'm not even talking about those who have mental conditions. As you said before, you need a license for a car but sadly not for a child. Anyway sure a 14 or a 40 year old may make a stupid mestake but wraping people up in cotton wool doesnt prevent those mestakes, it causes them. I said multiple times that sure she might make a mestake and thats the reason why a relationship needs respect and trust because if and when they MAKE that mestake they need to be able to come to you. If they cant trust you because they dont respect you then they wont be able to come to you with a problem.

In the States, at least, socialization among teenagers is out of sync with physiological development. The psychosocial challenges facing our youth often demand more than their brains and bodies are prepared to cope with. Parents have long worried that "kids are growing up too fast", and one can reasonably wonder if the gap between psychosocial and physiological is widening, and if that asynchronicity is accelerating.

You ever think thats because of PARENTS wrapping there kids up in cotton wool and never letting them make a mestake?

Perhaps it is different Down Under, but our neighbor's daughter is American, so I would sooner apply paradigms from our side of the Pacific than yours.

Some have chosen to criticize Bowser's snooping, but whatever one thinks, he is already in the situation, and cannot take it back or conceal the potential error. The point now ought, in my opinion, to be the construction of trust between adolescent and parent.

And, yes, I'm one who thinks it was probably a mistake to snoop. Specifically, I agree that a parent has the right to certain information about a child's behavior, but I also think that after the fact is a problematic time to introduce the assertion of that right.
In Australia 14 year olds are potentually capible of making there own medical decisions if they can show they can understand the risks and rewards and that they are capible of acting in there own best interests. Along with that comes medical privacy. One of the most common times this is used is a girl seeking the pill. Sexual activity isn't concidered to be "a parents right to know" (except in the NT where there laws are compleatly stupid). In fact the only time a doctor would break that privacy in cases of suicide risk.

A friend lets her twelve year-old have a Facebook page, but I can guarantee you that the daughter knows in advance that her mother is watching closely. There is no point in me criticizing how Bowser came by the information. As I said, he's already in it, and the updates suggest that the situation is progressing out of his immediate ability to control.

Yes, that would be because he hasn't admited he has done anything wrong. The first thing he should have done is APOLOGISE, right at the start and then left the matter at that.

My advice, that he should plot a course that will get you to a place where you can be useful within the scope of her trust, stands; indeed, it might be the only realistic option he has left. Many criticize parents who try to be a "friend" to kids instead of the authority figure, but that cannot be a static standard.

Its not about being "a friend" so much as accepting the reality that we dont live in the 5th centry where a women's virginity was YOUR property. It belongs to THEM and them ALONE.
[/QUOTE]

In my view, he must adapt to changing circumstances in order to be able to exert constructive influence in her psychosocial development.

Ultimately, parental duty to a child's physical and mental wellbeing trumps privacy in socialization. There are, of course, boundaries to that, but a Facebook page, at fourteen, does not exceed those limits.

The problem is that all his suggestions would do IREPERABLE damage to her mental welbeing. Trying to interfear DIRECTLY would be bad enough but she MIGHT forgive that, she would NEVER forgive him if he had talked to her BF or even worse HIS parents

I noticed you leapt to prostitution. The point stands out like a naked drunk crashing a Presbyterian Sunday morning. In the States, the more common nightmare projection is that a disgruntled daughter will marry young in order to get away from her parents, and wind up pumping out babies in a derelict marriage that spectrally dooms her future.

Yes well im not talking from theoretical perspective, my best friend ended up living on the streets, prosituting himself for drugs and a bed for the night. He went from a very inteligent young man who would have been a retail manager before he turned 20 to nothing.

I've had some moral disagreements with Bowser in the past, but I don't think those parts of his outlook that I have considered erroneous are so severe as to transform the story into a runaway turning tricks to survive. It's a bit melodramatic, to say the least.

I wouldn't disagree that abstinence pledges are, at the very least, unsettling.

Unsettling? they are positivily sickerning. The fact that they are pleging there virginity to there father is gross.

But a parent has every reason to advise abstinence.
Resurch has shown time and again that education should be infomation about how to make there sex as safe as possible NOT abstance. Think about it like this, say you do what your suggesting and tell your daughter she should wait and then she has sex and the condom breaks. Now not only has she got to deal with that, possibily by herself but you have ensured that insted of being able to come to you she will be scared to because "she would be disapointing you" because she didnt do what you said. The evidence is that abstance education leads to more teen pregancies and STIs than harm minimisation type and there is no evidence that I know of which states this is any different for parents.

It will be part of what I tell my daughter when the time comes, just like I'll tell her to avoid cigarettes and booze. Of course one should not be absolute about these things. But growing up is not the only learning process taking place here. Parenting is a blind voyage into wild and even hostile territory. Each parent-child relationship is undiscovered country, no matter how much the psychologists, anthropologists, and medical doctors can tell us about the general terrain. To wit, I recently learned a new set of assertions about pubescent development in relation to mind and brain. The illustration was useful; the introduction of myelination into my outlook was exceptionally enlightening. But, still, that's only a general topography; the particulars of the road ahead will only be known when illuminated by the headlights—that is, it's a very immediate, short-term demand. It does not do well for anyone, of any given theory on parenting, to blaze screaming along the unlit highway in the foggy midnight of human understanding. Each road is different, even if the signs all read the same. But like the rabbit I killed with my dad's truck when I was seventeen, it's generally too late if your caution depends entirely on what you can see in the headlights. (I hit that thing at eighty miles an hour; the best I can say is that it was a mercifully quick death for the rabbit.)

It is not that I am without sympathy to your principles, but I think you're letting your emotions get ahead of you.

What is one's purpose in taking part in this discussion? To judge and feel superior? Or to offer our honest advice? Bowser and I have had many disagreements before, but this is his kid we're talking about. It takes a village, and all that. If anything we can tell him helps strengthen his relationship with his daughter, and thus help her find a progressive path through life, well, at least we have done that.

You know its funny that parents seem to say things like that a lot yet teachers seem to have such an easier time dealing with these matters, and they have A LOT more restrictions on them AND they deal with a lot more children at once. If anything the problem goes back to your own comment, that we teach people how to drive and expect them to prove compitance before we let them on the road but parents?
 
No, they're personal messages in her message box. It's quite startling because she and her friends are talking up a storm about the subject. She has always sworn to be a "good girl," but according to what I've read, she's approaching the line that shouldn't be crossed at fourteen years of age. My wife and I have allowed them to be alone in her room simply because we have trusted them, but I'm getting concerned that they are flirting with the idea of going for the big one, exploiting our good faith in the process.

I've also learned that she and her friends have been in my room and in my personal stuff.

One thing to keep in mind - it is VERY possible to be intimate WITHOUT having intercourse... and intimacy is a GOOD thing. We should not be afraid of our sexuality, and denying that aspect of our lives can cause it to build tension to the point where greater logic and general "good judgement" gets thrown out the window in favor of hormones and a rush of quick decisions that can easily be regretted later.

If the two of them are fooling around, fine. DO talk to her, explain that it is HER choice, and that she needs to be smart. Explain to her that, if they do decide to do the big one (which, at fourteen, she MUST be made aware of the possibility of statutory rape charges since she is under the age of consent) that she be smart and use protection.

Remember, ultimately it IS her decision to make - withdrawing your trust in her and trying to drive a wedge between them will only make her 1) want it more and 2) dislike and/or hate you for it... yes, she is young. The heart will want what it wants, nothing you can do about that - however, just make sure she understands that this has implications that may be permanent... after all, she can only have her "first time" once... she needs to make sure it's with the right person... trust me, that's a mistake I can personally attest to...
 
after all, she can only have her "first time" once... she needs to make sure it's with the right person... trust me, that's a mistake I can personally attest to...

We have talked a couple of times since I looked at her FaceBook account--last night and this afternoon. She has reaffirmed her commitment to wait. I'm of the opinion that she is in no hurry. It's what I found on her account that really threw me a curve ball. It may be that I'm just too old to relate to the minds of teenagers. Certainly there's more explicit information readily available to them for consumption than there ever was for my generation. :shrug:
 
Maybe your son is the key here. You need to introduce your son to the BF. I don't know if you have time to introduce him into the equation, but older brothers can be, from what I have heard, quite influential in these equations. If he can "put the fear of god" into the BF, perhaps he will take very seriously the implications of taking the relationship to the next level. If your son can impress upon the BF how important your daughters feelings are to him??? lol

Most men, if they do get the meaning of the older brother, know that they are then "stuck" in that relationship, forever, at least until the girl lets them go, for fear of the wraith of the older brother lest they break the heart of their younger sibling. (Of course, these are more civilized times, and your son might just not be that type of guy. . . but he could try to play it off depending on the age difference. . ) There might not be much you can do, but there might be some pressure your son could exert to make your daughter's BF think twice about how serious this relationship is to him and if he is willing to go the distance for it. :D

My son is 20 now, a legal adult. He could go to jail if he touched that kid. No, I need to have a talk with the boyfriend, just to let him know that he is expected to stay a gentleman while he's with my daughter. I've given them space and privacy, so they better honor my trust.
 
We have talked a couple of times since I looked at her FaceBook account--last night and this afternoon. She has reaffirmed her commitment to wait. I'm of the opinion that she is in no hurry.
IMHO, the best modality is to encourage and maintain communication with the kids and reinforce your views on sexual health/accountability/morality.

It's what I found on her account that really threw me a curve ball. It may be that I'm just too old to relate to the minds of teenagers. Certainly there's more explicit information readily available to them for consumption than there ever was for my generation. :shrug:
Last summer, a neighbor teen (15) stopped by to visit. Somehow, the conversation turned to cellphones and how bold the young ladies were. He showed me pics on his phone that neighborhood girls had sent him. One girl was laying on her bed in panties with her legs spread. Another gal had lifted up her sweater to flash her bewbs (biggies).

I was kinda stunned :bugeye:
 
@The Esotericist --

I swear, besides Wynn, none of these people really has a notion to protect the psyche of the child.

Perhaps not all of us are delusional enough to think that sex is likely to scar a teenager. No, she's far more likely to be scarred(and raped, statistically speaking) by her immediate family than she is by sex with her boyfriend.

Now, I don't think that teenagers should go around having sex with everyone, I've always held that they should when they're read, and ultimately that's a decision that only they can make. Will they have sex? Yes, it's unavoidable and has been since the dawn of our species. The best thing to do is to make sure that she's informed about all of the risks and the behaviors she can engage in to minimize that risk.

The very idea that a father somehow has the power to stop his teenage daughter from having sex is so laughably ridiculous that I'm amazed that anyone could take it seriously.

but I really think, if as a parent, you believe that the law should be followed,

What the hell does this have to do with the current situation? I'm not sure which state our OP is living in, but I do know that a rather large number of states have Romeo and Juliet laws when it comes to age of consent. If the age difference between Bowser's daughter and her boyfriend isn't too great(typically less than twenty four months) then usually no laws would be broken by them having sex.

and it is psychologically harmful for minors to have sex before they are 18,

Sex can be psychologically harmful for minors, but then it can be psychologically harmful for anyone depending on the circumstances. Again, a bollocks argument here, it can be dismissed.

then one should tell them, while you are living under my roof, NO SEX.

Yeah, my parents tried something like that, and I'm willing to bet that my parents were a lot scarier than most people's were(Navy SEALS and their wives tend to be that way). Care to guess how well that worked?

Bottom line. If kids want to have sex(or smoke, or do other drugs, or go cow tipping, or build cannons in their backyard, you can really take your pick) then there's not a damn thing you can do to stop them short of locking them up until they're no longer children.
 
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