Muslim Morality

WildBlueYonder said:
... after Khadijah's death, he was free to marry, ...
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Why only after her death? If it's OK it's OK if it's not OK then it's not OK.

Muhammad led a very ordinary life yet the life style he practiced offered an example for others to follow. So this is an invitation to search through the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) lifestyle and adopt what he did in his daily activities. To start with read what Al Hasan (son of Ali) said about the Prophet of Allah (s.a.w.s.) “Doors are not locked under him, nor do door keepers stand for him, and trays of food are not served to him in the morning or the evening. He sits on the ground and eats his food from the ground. He wears coarse (rough) clothes and rides on a donkey with others sitting behind him, and he licks his fingers after taking food.”
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Actually this verse reminds me a lot of how Ghengis Khan, another nomadic leader, lived his life. Even though he had conquered most of the known world and certainly could have taken much of the world's spoils as his he instead shunned civilized life and preferred to sleep on the dirt or in the satle, eat whatever his army ate and in all continue to live a nomadic life. Of course he captured many slaves and took many women as his.

I wonder: What if Ghengis had declared himslef a Prophet and combined Islamic, Buddhist and Xian books into one "True Book" how many here would probably be Ghengians and suggest that his aster life was one to model oneself after and his taking many wives and slaves was natural for that time and the will of the One Buddha-God of course and spent day and day for the end of their days revering Ghengis looking forward for the day they will be able to meet one another in the next afterlife...

Seriously, if Ghengis would have made a Religion I am sure many in China, the ME and India would be revering him to this day.

Funny that no one seems to see how preposterous it all is,

Michael

Oh yeah in peoples studies did they ever come across anything that can clarify this question: Did Mohammad ever murder anyone or ever command that one of his followers murder someone? If so who were the people and under what circumstances were they murdered?


Oh, and while we're on the topic:
Did Jesus or Mosses or Bahá'u'lláh or Buddha ever murder anyone or ever command that one of their followers murder someone? If so who were the people and under what circumstances were they murdered?


[this is a morality thread right???]
 
Carcano said:
Whats this? :eek: The Goddess of a thousand links provides no reference???

"To clarify this more, let us reflect on the following saying of his wife `A’ishah describing their simple life. She addressed her nephew `Abdullah ibnAz-Zubair saying: “O my nephew, we would sight three new moons in two months without lighting a fire (to cook a meal) in the Prophet’s houses.” Her nephew asked, “O Aunt, what was your foodstuff then?” She said, “The two black things, dates and water, but the Prophet had some Ansar neighbors who had she-camels and they used to send the Prophet some milk.”

I can just picture it. Mohammed sitting in the courtyard mending his socks...with nothing to eat but dates.


While his large collection of wives and slaves plays backgammon all day. :rolleyes:
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Its not uncommon even today in many people in that region.:p

(except for the backgammon; Muslim women have full rights over their own property, which is not considered communal property with the husbands, even though his is)
 
WildBlueYonder said:
you conveniently forgot plunder, 20% went to allah & his messenger, please google plunder, Mohammad led over 60 raids, he was a bandit before he became a king

The quote below is unattributed, please provide source link



from: http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/048.asp

read this, I'll reduce after a week to just the link & a small snip

from: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/053.sbt.html
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The "plunder"?

If you're talking about the spoils of war, that was not his personal property; besides if you read the stories about the Arab conquest of Persia, there are anecdotes how the Persians who visited the then Caliphs could not differentiate them from the locals, since they all lived the same non lavish lives.

Links on lifestyle of the prophet:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/prophetdescription.html#mode
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/mohammed.html
http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/prophets/attrib_m.htm


The Prophet's possession consisted of mats, blankets, jugs and other simple things even when he was the virtual ruler of Arabia. He left nothing to be inherited except a white mule (a gift from Muqawqis), few ammunition and a piece of land that he had made a gift during his life time. Among his last words were: "We the community of Prophets are not inherited. Whatever we leave is for charity."
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http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/muhammad.html
 
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Michael said:
Why only after her death? If it's OK it's OK if it's not OK then it's not OK.

Actually this verse reminds me a lot of how Ghengis Khan, another nomadic leader, lived his life. Even though he had conquered most of the known world and certainly could have taken much of the world's spoils as his he instead shunned civilized life and preferred to sleep on the dirt or in the satle, eat whatever his army ate and in all continue to live a nomadic life. Of course he captured many slaves and took many women as his.

I wonder: What if Ghengis had declared himslef a Prophet and combined Islamic, Buddhist and Xian books into one "True Book" how many here would probably be Ghengians and suggest that his aster life was one to model oneself after and his taking many wives and slaves was natural for that time and the will of the One Buddha-God of course and spent day and day for the end of their days revering Ghengis looking forward for the day they will be able to meet one another in the next afterlife...

Seriously, if Ghengis would have made a Religion I am sure many in China, the ME and India would be revering him to this day.

Funny that no one seems to see how preposterous it all is,

Michael

Oh yeah in peoples studies did they ever come across anything that can clarify this question: Did Mohammad ever murder anyone or ever command that one of his followers murder someone? If so who were the people and under what circumstances were they murdered?


Oh, and while we're on the topic:
Did Jesus or Mosses or Bahá'u'lláh or Buddha ever murder anyone or ever command that one of their followers murder someone? If so who were the people and under what circumstances were they murdered?


[this is a morality thread right???]
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I see you're back to preaching your brand of morality :p

Is it tenable? I find it amusing that you conveniently ignore the lack of information about Jesus while making these pronouncements. Buddhism, as I already told you, disappeared from India after a thousand years (in a country where we have scriptures from over 3000 years ago) so its not socially tenable. Today we have Buddhist militants bombing churches, so its not that foolproof either.
 
WildBlueYonder said:
this may be why women were relegated to 3rd class status in islam, after Khadijah's death, he was free to marry, make rules,You’ll notice he never married others until after her death, in their marriage bed, she may have worn the pants

since he seems to have carried grudges, someone must have made fun of him previously about that situation, that may be why he became a prophet, so that he could gain status over her, he used up her money in Abyssinia & Medina before he took up banditry

I mean, he did marry the boss after all, he married into money, here in the US, he'd be labeled a "gold digger"
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The US is hardly in a position to preach morality; and perhaps you should take up writing fiction.
 
Not to cast aspersion on your Google results, but:

The Prophet's possession consisted of mats, blankets, jugs and other simple things even when he was the virtual ruler of Arabia. He left nothing to be inherited except a white mule (a gift from Muqawqis), few ammunition and a piece of land that he had made a gift during his life time. Among his last words were: "We the community of Prophets are not inherited. Whatever we leave is for charity."

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/muhammad.html
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"Ammunition"? For which: his 155mm howitzer or just for weekends at the rifle range? I had no idea he was a time traveler and a prophet.
 
GeoffP said:
Not to cast aspersion on your Google results, but:



"Ammunition"? For which: his 155mm howitzer or just for weekends at the rifle range? I had no idea he was a time traveler and a prophet.
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Translation issues, probably his knife or sword.:)
 
...is the Pope a Prophet? I'm sure the Catholics of the world would be happy to hear you say so.

Look, it's just that I thought someone who God was speaking directly through and to would have some kind of, I don't know, divine immunity or somesuch. The Christians figured that God was tough enough to call his own moment of death, you know. The Pope's a fine fellow, but he's a chairholder, not in the business of divine revelation.
 
GeoffP said:
...is the Pope a Prophet? I'm sure the Catholics of the world would be happy to hear you say so.

Look, it's just that I thought someone who God was speaking directly through and to would have some kind of, I don't know, divine immunity or somesuch. The Christians figured that God was tough enough to call his own moment of death, you know. The Pope's a fine fellow, but he's a chairholder, not in the business of divine revelation.
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You're using Western caricatures. The Prophet was just a man, he made mistakes, he did not know what the future held for him, and he lived his life without any "miracles" to assist him.
 
I thought he or Rasulallah did a whole bunch. Healed the sick, moved the moon, never stunk nor nothing. Anyway: if God's giving the Word to be Heard down through Mo, shouldn't he cover his six or something? I mean, help a brother out. Seriously. Fickle's one thing; poor management's another.
 
GeoffP said:
I thought he or Rasulallah did a whole bunch. Healed the sick, moved the moon, never stunk nor nothing. Anyway: if God's giving the Word to be Heard down through Mo, shouldn't he cover his six or something? I mean, help a brother out. Seriously. Fickle's one thing; poor management's another.
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No he did not perform any miracles, except that of the moon, which was also recorded in India, by an Indian king.

Perhaps it would help if you were actually educated in the religion rather than using Robert Spencer and his like as your guru.
 
And here I thought reasonability and common sense were suitable enough markers to discuss religion. But apparently only when you join a thing, can you criticize a thing. I expect with the greatest trepidation news of Sam's impending Israeli citizenship.

So was god with Mo or not? He can't cover his own Prophet?
 
GeoffP said:
And here I thought reasonability and common sense were suitable enough markers to discuss religion. But apparently only when you join a thing, can you criticize a thing. I expect with the greatest trepidation news of Sam's impending Israeli citizenship.

So was god with Mo or not? He can't cover his own Prophet?
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You're using Western caricatures again. God is not an old man in a white robe.

And Israel is not a religion.
 
How is that a caricature? Can or can not god protect his own prophet while he goes around "propheting"? So to speak. It's not a loaded question, or at least not in the way you're thinking. Allah is supposed to be in control of eeeevery little particle in the world, everywhere. But he can't allow Mo to spread the word without fighting? "Fight in the way of allah", and all that? Is it that he can't control himself and his great message or something? Too busy? What?

I agree that Israel isn't a religion, though.
 
Apparently since you do not wish to learn about Islam, you can make up any explanation to that which satisfies you.
 
That's not really answering my questions. The motto you're proposing seems to be "live in ignorance".
 
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