Muslim Marriage Contract

I agree with a lot of that, however women should not be blamed. Muslim women are not meek and timid, that is just a stereotype, Islam gives women their rights, the Prophet Muhammad was revolutionary in the way he elevated the status of women. Its a shame that in some Muslim countries, people with a village mentality wish to conceal and hide these rights from women. Islamic education is very important, woman must know their rights.
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she said they are dumb. THEY ARE POOR, they cannot do anything. What does it take to understsnd this?

thousands of years of religion and people are still being abused. your affluent you can be gay, your affluent and your a women you can complain. your poor and you are not worth much.

Always the poor who are abused. i am sick of it.
 
I have noticed one flaw in those arguing the islam is evil position. It appears at least to me that they are saying islam is the reason for the the low position of woman in the societies it exists in. Its not. Most of the things they are railing about existed in these societies for hundreds of years before islam was founded.
 
John99 said:
she said they are dumb. THEY ARE POOR, they cannot do anything. What does it take to understsnd this?

thousands of years of religion and people are still being abused. your affluent you can be gay, your affluent and your a women you can complain. your poor and you are not worth much.

Always the poor who are abused. i am sick of it.
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Do you know the old Cockney music hall song that goes:

It's the same the 'ole world over
It's the poor wot get the blame.
It's the rich wot get the pleasure
Isn't it a bloomin' shame.

Plus ca change !
 
pjdude1219 said:
I have noticed one flaw in those arguing the islam is evil position. It appears at least to me that they are saying islam is the reason for the the low position of woman in the societies it exists in. Its not. Most of the things they are railing about existed in these societies for hundreds of years before islam was founded.
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Yes I take your point but don't forget that these practices are still sanctioned by the Muslim community. See my link to the BBC programme above !
 
Sock puppet path said:
Well as has been drilled into us there is no central decision making body in islam ( a good thing apparently) so when some random muslim says allahu akbar and cuts of some dudes head while quoting the quran or hadith and interpreting it as he sees fit he cannot be condemned because he is as right as you are and no one can tell him different. A very convenient belief system, everything goes.
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There is flexibility, that is right, however you misunderstand the issue.

Throughout the Muslim World, regarding Islamic rulings, the Quran and Hadith, take precedence over everything. After the Quran and Hadith you have many other classical scholars (e.g. Imam Hanifa, Imam Malik). The work of all Islamic scholars stem from the teachings of the Quran and Hadith, they are the main root for everything. Now the classical texts have been translated in God knows how many religions, students study that stuff around the World.

There are differences here and there however they are minor differences, technicalities. There won't be any confusion around major stuff e.g. homosexuality, drinking alcohol, drugs etc. The minor technicalities could be about prayer, for example how one should place his or her hands, minor technicalities like that.

There is no central decision making body since their is no Caliph (leader of the Muslim nation - Ummah), however there are important and respected learning institutions in the Muslim World, there is consistency and consultation between them, and again, they all go back to the main source that is the Quran and Hadith. The Prophet stressed the importance of knowledge greatly and this is something Muslims have taken very seriously - hence why Islamic teachings are so strong today.

A previous post of mines:

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1674695&postcount=54

Islam places great emphasis on seeking knowledge. Seeking knowledge from the right people. Islam also places great emphasises on developing a relationship with the teacher, a master-student relationship. During the time of the Prophet, His Companions would always go to him for help in understanding the Quran and other teachings. Then those that excelled were granted permission to teach others, this chain has continued till today, 1400+ years. You’ll find scholars and Sufis today that have chains going back centuries, through the Companions and directly to the Prophet. If you visit a true scholar today and ask him about his Ijaza, he will tell you that he was given permission by such and such a scholar, who was given permission by such and such a scholar etc. all the way back to the Prophet. It is the same with Sufi orders, the 4 main orders all have chains leading directly back to the Prophet. These chains and networks are spread all over the World, the Middle-East, the Indian Sub-Continent, Africa, Europe etc.

Nowadays ‘knowledge’ of Islam is widely available through books and the Internet, however they cannot be substituted from learning directly from a Sheikh or Sufi master (tacit vs. explicit knowledge). That could be regarded as a weakness by some but I see it as a strength, first reason being it helps to uphold the authenticity of Islamic teachings.
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As I was saying, there is consistency, whenever there is a major issue it is always addressed. With terrorism, beheadings and whatnot, Al-Qaeda and their lot have been condemned throughout the Muslim World. I must have said that about a thousand times, here is a link, with many, many other links quoting very senior, well respected (learned) scholars.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

Al-Qaeda and other extremists are just that extremists. They are not mainstream. They do not have any political parties, they are on the fringe, hence why all these guys are always on the run. They are not safe in any Muslim country, not even Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia which is a Wahabi country kills terrorists - they have done so much to combat Al-Qaeda, that is coming from someone that is not even a fan of the Saudi regime. You must understand these guys are not mainstream, they do not have the backing of mainstream scholars.

Apologise for any spelling mistakes I have made - its late and I can't be bothered to check my post.
 
John99 said:
i am simply stating that if it were a womans world then women would be able to have multiple husbands. since you agree with it for men then perhaps you would agree with it for women?
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Tibetan women took multiple husbands.
 
Michael said:
Tibetan women took multiple husbands.
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To say they took multiple husbands implies choice. Actually, it was a matter of economics. To avoid dividing up the land into ever -decreasing parcels, brothers shared a single wife. I'm not sure the women were ever consulted.
 
Ghost, this thread is not about terrorism or AlQueda and words are just words. Reading some posts about how messed up the west (Europe and U.S specifically) is and reading about people trying to change things (not for the better) makes me wonder why is it that so many people leave these Muslim countries in the first place.

Why did your parents move to GB? Every Muslim on this board seems to live in the West yet they complain about it and put it down. This is not the norm, afa i have seen, but it seems like a contradiction.

It is not only from the ME but from Asia, form Africa etc. These countries accept immigrants and you are right in a way because i have not seen any problems myself but reading some of the relentless posts here makes one wonder what the problem is. Because if things were so good they would not be leaving.

There is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage but that does not include putting others down.
 
Myles said:
You will do anything but address the problem. Women are oppressed. They cannot marry without the consent of a father or a male relative. That equates to force in my book. Muslim men are not prepared to sign a contract stating they will not take a second or third wife.

BTW , the Muslim Council has been in existence for over ten years and it is regarded as a responsible body in religious matters.
Hindus and Sikhs have integrated into our society but not so the Muslims.

Yet again I ask you to listen to that programme; it will answer some of the questions you have asked me. Why not hear it from the horse's mouth ?
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You're kidding right? Do you even know any Muslims, Hindus or Sikhs??????:eek:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1899011/posts

Of course, you are welcome to continue to educate us about your bias. :rolleyes:




Take anyone from North India and you'll find the same attitude, but apparently in Britain, they are WORSE!
 
i can walk out my door and see hundreds of them walking around and no one bothers them and they dont bother anyone either. i am just trying to understand someone putting a culture down when they come from one with such inequality.
 
No offense SAM but we can see by the images you posted and calling people persecuted "stupid" we ask for some reflection. thats all, we are all just people.
 
perhaps we should view every adult human as if they were a child. and treat them with the same gentleness as one would a child.
 
Myles said:
To say they took multiple husbands implies choice. Actually, it was a matter of economics. To avoid dividing up the land into ever -decreasing parcels, brothers shared a single wife. I'm not sure the women were ever consulted.
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The point is, it is her culture, and so the Tibetan woman would have accepted this arrangement as natural. She wouldn't have been any more coerced than we are to regularly bath. She could've just as easily instigated the arrangement herself. Remember - this is a normal arrangement for her.

Muslims have a culture as well. Mainly Arab. They like to call it "Islam". We tend to see many Islamic customs as backwards. That's from our point of view. But, from theirs, we're the ones who are backwards. What's curious is one would think it's a Middle Eastern problem. But, I don't think so. I know many ME people who are first generation Xian Iraqi's and they are 100% as Aussie as the next person. Completely integrated. The same for non-Muslim Iranians, I know Lebanese, Turkish and Palestinian Muslims whom are not really all that religous. I'd say they are as normal as the next religous person.

The REAL problem is a relative minority of people who are very religiously motivated and they are TEACHING the next generation without ANY counterweight whatsoever to balance their bullshit with reason. But, it's not just about reason, it's what they are teaching. Even SAM for as much of an apologist as she is, can not escape the fundamental intolerance of Islam (and Judaism and Xianity for that matter). And we don't need to debate it because can see it born in the real world. It doesn't matter if you are speaking with Filipinos, Russians, Chinese, Indians, Thai, Singaporeans, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Brazilians, ... basically every single non-Muslim in the entire world (and I'm talking across all boundary's of class, culture, language or creed) and they all have the same sort of problems with Muslims. There's no point going into it, as we have all be over this countless times.

The answer is to provide the counterargument.

Every single English person should be taught in a public school that the Bible was conferred upon and is not perfect, there is no contemporary evidence for Jesus, that the Qu'ran is ALSO of unknown origins and is not perfect, that there are more than one type of Qu'ran, They are not exact, that the contemporary evidence for the existence of Mohammad as absent as for Jesus, that being polytheistic is no worse and no better than being monotheistic, that Jews are not a race of people - but a religous beleif, the archaeological evidence for the basis of all religions should be examined, the DNA evidence for homosexuality should be taught mainly because many religions are bigoted in this regards, the problems that may occur with one sided polygamy, the countless religous wars, even I think the problems with Communism and atheism should taught and the positive contributions religions played in various societies from polytheistic Greeks to Shinto Japanese, this and much more must be pounded into their heads for 12 years.

If not then you can expect shit to eventually hit the fan. And it will. That's simply the way history shows it goes.

MII
 
Michael said:
It doesn't matter if you are speaking with Filipinos, Russians, Chinese, Indians, Thai, Singaporeans, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Brazilians, ... basically every single non-Muslim in the entire world (and I'm talking across all boundary's of class, culture, language or creed) and they all have the same sort of problems with Muslims.
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Michael:

what problems have you personally had with Muslims?
 
Ghost_007 said:
As I said, judge Islam by the teachings of Islam (Quran and hadith)
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Ghost_007 said:
Homosexuality is condemned in Islam. There can be no 'gay marriages'.
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As you can see for yourself, the teachings of Islam need not be judged at all, but instead, simply observed for it's hard line intolerance as it's already ostracized a large group of people; gays.

Since Islam condones lying, it would ostracize another group of people who consider lying immoral.

And the list of "teachings" goes on...
 
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Some people think homosexuality is condemned in Islam, because they believe the story of Lot is the story of sodomy [from Christian teachings]. Those who also study Judaism, know that the story of Lot had nothing to do with homosexuality. After all, knowledge is based as much on what you don't know, as on what you do know. The fact that, even in Pakistan, there was a priest willing to conduct a gay marriage, shows that what people think matters less than what they do.
 
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