Muslim Festival of Animal Sacrifice

[pjdude1219]

You can find it normal to slaughter animals and display their organs while blaming a girl because she did a similar thing based on her belief (of course her belief is not a "real belief" for you, you hinted that above). You can find this normal, I don't. Because same Muslim community named and shamed this 15 year old and made her an obvious target. You can accept that Muslims can do whatever they like just because their population is around 1 billion, but I don't have to.

no you don't but please prove your allegations something you have refused to do. I accept that they have a part of the year that the normal killing of animals takes on ritual signifigance. its not about you accepting it or not the problem is your singling out on group of people which you have already shown an irrational hatred for.

I don't know what did you understand from my "obvious" attempts, but mine is obviously not in favour of Muslims, or any other religion in that matter. I agree that I don't like many of religious mentality, practices, habits, and ideology and I find many of them disturbing. Moreover, I don't think their rituals deserve any special understanding and/or acceptance. If they think that they are following their God's, Allah's or any other fantastic invention so they have right to do anything they like without any criticism , they are wrong. Yet instead of pointing out individuals, I prefer to deal with the idea that support or legitimise the acts of individuals.

wow you just bacially admitted you think we should just go fuck ity to common decency

You can rephrase your question, and if I still refuse to answer the question, you might have a point, you can even claim that I am trolling,. But I see nothing other than a repeat of the same - what you were called "shit"-, so don't expect that I will come up with a different answer.

I am not expecting a different answer I still waiting for you to answer in the first place.

Both are religious ceremonies, as well as your examples of other tribal rituals, and you are claiming this: End legitimise the ceremonial killing; because they are eaten at the end. And Muslims have right to single out this girl as an anomaly, because she did not eat the cat, is that so?
Answer this: Are they religious sacrifice ceremonies, or not? While answering this, try to add ancient American human sacrifice rituals onto your list.
Or, you can answer this: What is your point? In other way of saying "Which part, claim, sentence or logic you didn't understand in this thread"?

the point is your just Islam bashing. and your trying to hide behind your alleged beliefs about all religions yet you only have gone after Islam.

I don't have a hidden agenda on undermining Muslim religion (neither to "bash Muslims" as you stated) , I only find their belief system as "unbelievable", and I call their hypocrisy against other belief systems as "unacceptable". And my reaction would be same for the actions of any ideology, religion, or so called "common sense" if they were acting in similar way.

Your right your anti Islam agenda is right on your sleeve.

This thread and my attempt can be formulated as "understanding the level of tolerance in religious societies against others". Others could be anything: Satanist girl, a group of atheists, followers of different religions or belief systems, or even those who wants to modify the existing rules and practices of the dominant religion: The morality of majority against minority. The example can be the status of a Muslim in a predominantly non-Muslim society; at the end this Muslim would require some tolerance from the society s/he lives.

No this thread is you attacking the Islamic faith while try to hide behind an allegeled belief against all such things while thinking every one would be too stupid to see through it. guess what everyone did.

If you deduced anything other than this, you can produce some intelligible argument instead of defensive whinging. Otherwise I am going to start suspecting your motives, as well as the reasons behind your temper.

So basicly if I don't stop asking you to prove your allegations. I'm not being defensive you are by refusing to answer even the most simple of queries. Since you cannot or will not defend your raging attacks against a faith you just don't like I'll go find someone more pleasant to do.

 

[baftan]

prove your allegations something you have refused to do

It's not allegations, it's a religious ceremony and it happens every year. What allegations?

I accept that they have a part of the year that the normal killing of animals takes on ritual signifigance.

So?

its not about you accepting it or not the problem is your singling out on group of people which you have already shown an irrational hatred for.

Explain "irrational" and "hatred", give some examples from my post(s). This is nothing but labelling me if you don't have a specific example of my hate display.

wow you just bacially admitted you think we should just go fuck ity to common decency

Problem is your definition of decency.

I am not expecting a different answer I still waiting for you to answer in the first place.

To what? I specifically asked to rephrase the question. I know you don't have any other than "why do you hate innocent people". This is not what I do, this is what you say that I do, and you should bring on the related sentences. If you have a different question, just repeat it, I will answer.

the point is your just Islam bashing. and your trying to hide behind your alleged beliefs about all religions yet you only have gone after Islam.

Again, how do I hide my intention? Where is my twisting sentence?

Your right your anti Islam agenda is right on your sleeve.

So nothing is hidden then.. Which one, hidden or not?

No this thread is you attacking the Islamic faith while try to hide behind an allegeled belief against all such things while thinking every one would be too stupid to see through it. guess what everyone did.

This is your perception, and don't bring this "everyone" cliché; I don't give a toss about everyone, I am communicating with you. "Everyone" does not make sense at all. Are you going to defend your accusations and twist with the power of assumed everyone, or will you come up with some concrete ideas, yours or everyone's?

So basicly if I don't stop asking you to prove your allegations. I'm not being defensive you are by refusing to answer even the most simple of queries.

What are my allegations, what are your "simple", yet not seen queries?

Since you cannot or will not defend your raging attacks against a faith you just don't like I'll go find someone more pleasant to do.

This sentence reminds me having sex...

 

[pjdude1219]

It's not allegations, it's a religious ceremony and it happens every year. What allegations?

its an allegation untill proven and you have yet to prove they hang out parts and have steadfastly refused to.

Explain "irrational" and "hatred", give some examples from my post(s). This is nothing but labelling me if you don't have a specific example of my hate display

Man I miss sandy and least she would admit her hatreds. You have a track record of attacking Islam under the guise of disliking religion even though i have yet to see a post of your critical of any other religion. we both know you have a patern of Islam bashing.

Problem is your definition of decency.

what the problem with thinking not attacking a faith simply because you hate isn't decent?

To what? I specifically asked to rephrase the question. I know you don't have any other than "why do you hate innocent people". This is not what I do, this is what you say that I do, and you should bring on the related sentences. If you have a different question, just repeat it, I will answer.

all I asked was for proof that they hung out the organs for show. you claimed you did I said you didn't and know your trying to act like a victim for having you intent called into question just prove your fucking point or shut up.

Again, how do I hide my intention? Where is my twisting sentence?



So nothing is hidden then.. Which one, hidden or not?

Not I never said that you were hiding. Your reading comp is really being called into question.

This is your perception, and don't bring this "everyone" cliché; I don't give a toss about everyone, I am communicating with you. "Everyone" does not make sense at all. Are you going to defend your accusations and twist with the power of assumed everyone, or will you come up with some concrete ideas, yours or everyone's?

have you not been reading all the posts?

What are my allegations, what are your "simple", yet not seen queries?

your allegation that the hang out organs for show. You have presented no proof and have stated it as fact despite being asked for the proof. and my simple query was to show the proof of them hanging out the organs for show.

This sentence reminds me having sex...

than your pervert as well as bigot

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

How DARE you!

There are plenty of us who slaughtered turkeys who are not Christians!*

They died for a good cause. Their sacrifice was not in vain.

~String

*Thanksgiving being a holiday that is pretty inter-faith; celebrated by atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Christians alike

Cut the birds head and feet off, pluck the poor fowl, eviscerate it & put its entrails in a little bag, freeze it, thaw it, spread it wide open in a roasting pan while its guts are replaced with stuffing, cook it, cut it up some more, eat what you can and make soup out of what's left over. Christ , I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.

If some kid thinks she can kill a cat and make a sideshow of it then she must have been watching the Christian Cooking Channel's feature on turkey dinner. I hope like hell she eventually ate the fucking thing, in Satan's name or whoever, and I also hope she had a little left over for soup.

OK, I'll deduct 10% for the atheist gobbler gobblers amongst us, so that leaves approximately 31.5 million birds slaughtered for Thanksgiving. Who or what is everybody thanking?

But Hey, we gotta eat. Christians et al are only a month away from doing in a few million more birds for another religious holiday.

 

[baftan]

its an allegation untill proven and you have yet to prove they hang out parts and have steadfastly refused to.

I agreed with moderator James R that I will not link the picture of this slaughtered cat, so I will not do that just to satisfy your image hunger. But I will send you just a couple of related links privately. Anyone who wants to see the scale of this ceremony can easily type "Eid al-Adha slaughter pictures" or "images" on Google and click the images button.

By the way I was raised in a Muslim country, and I forgot to take the pictures of my own experiences.

Man I miss sandy and least she would admit her hatreds. You have a track record of attacking Islam under the guise of disliking religion even though i have yet to see a post of your critical of any other religion. we both know you have a patern of Islam bashing.

You obviously didn't read my other posts about creationism, or creationists, it's your selective reading, your own problem.

what the problem with thinking not attacking a faith simply because you hate isn't decent?

Unlike many religious discourses, I am able to criticize governments, understandings, or beliefs on the basis of principles, and do that without oiling hate feelings.

ll I asked was for proof that they hung out the organs for show. you claimed you did I said you didn't and know your trying to act like a victim for having you intent called into question just prove your fucking point or shut up.

Haha, will you shut me up with this language, you are a fool indeed.

Not I never said that you were hiding. Your reading comp is really being called into question.

Below is your sentence from your post #41 under this thread:

No this thread is you attacking the Islamic faith while try to hide behind an allegeled belief against all such things while thinking every one would be too stupid to see through it. guess what everyone did.

The word "hide" is underlined. Now go back and read your own sentence before you advising me how to read... So "I never said that you were hiding" is a lie.

your allegation that the hang out organs for show. You have presented no proof and have stated it as fact despite being asked for the proof. and my simple query was to show the proof of them hanging out the organs for show.

Hold your horses, you'll get it soon, check your private messages. Or type what I said above.

than your pervert as well as bigot

Somebody must be creating the opportunities...

 

[S.A.M.]

I would guess, at the very least from his animosity, that baftan comes from a Muslim background and probably an Islamic country.

If some kid thinks she can kill a cat and make a sideshow of it then she must have been watching the Christian Cooking Channel's feature on turkey dinner. I hope like hell she eventually ate the fucking thing, in Satan's name or whoever, and I also hope she had a little left over for soup.

Indeed. At the very least it would be nice to have some evidence of this alleged act.

http://www.google.co.in/search?q=gi...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

[baftan]

I would guess, at the very least from his animosity, that baftan comes from a Muslim background and probably an Islamic country.

Make it personal so disturb the attention off topic, is that so S.A.M.? You try to question my personality, but I will continue to question your belief instead. Will my background, or drives change the reality of Muslims are sacrificing animals for their Allah? Will my "animosity" is greater than their and your hypocrisy?

Indeed. At the very least it would be nice to have some evidence of this alleged act.

Well well, another example of hypocrisy from a God believer who doesn't bother to submit any evidence about their fantasy creator, yet claims evidence from others. OK, I got my permission from moderation (This link contains images of animal sacrifice):

http://www.misschat.net/forum/index...0hu9a3g5n7tgh9b7fk5&topic=663.msg1372#msg1372

And also if you really want to make a search about a country, you should mostly use their language, unless the subject event or issue had already become international, aka "English". So instead of S.A.M.'s suggestion of Google search, if you really want to see the scale of discussion in Turkey, try entering this sentence on Google: "kedi kesen kiz" (in Turkish it means "girl who slaughtered the cat".

What else do you want to discuss about my personal motives S.A.M.?

 

[S.A.M.]

What else do you want to discuss about my personal motives S.A.M.?

I'm trying to figure out if you would eat a cat slaughtered in a satanic ritual the same way you would a goat slaughtered at Eid

Hmm I saw the pictures, not as gory as I expected them to be. What are you protesting about? Is it your belief that she should not be prosecuted or held accountable because we kill goats on Eid? I'd like to know a little bit more about why she did it.

 

[baftan]

I'm trying to figure out if you would eat a cat slaughtered in a satanic ritual the same way you would a goat slaughtered at Eid

No, you are not. You are trying to divert the topic. That's exactly what you are trying to do. My eating habits are nothing to do with the topic, neither yours.
Satanic, Muslim, Christian, Mayan styles are all same for me: These styles do not make any difference in actual nutrition obtained from meat.

For instance, if you were sacrificed in ancient American ceremony, that wouldn't make you tastier or more nutritious.

 

[S.A.M.]

No, you are not. You are trying to divert the topic. That's exactly what you are trying to do. My eating habits are nothing to do with the topic, neither yours.
Satanic, Muslim, Christian, Mayan styles are all same for me: These styles do not make any difference in actual nutrition obtained from meat.

For instance, if you were sacrificed in ancient American ceremony, that wouldn't make you tastier or more nutritious.

I take that as a yes. In that case, if you were willing to eat the products of any religious sacrifice, be it cat, goat, turkey, Jesus's flesh and blood or still beating human heart, then objectively, all ritual sacrifice is the same to you.

 

[baftan]

Hmm I saw the pictures, not as gory as I expected them to be. What are you protesting about? Is it your belief that she should not be prosecuted or held accountable because we kill goats on Eid? I'd like to know a little bit more about why she did it.

I am not protesting anything, I demand an explanation on how Muslim people can shame, blame and name this 15 girl while they are not doing a different thing at all. Some issues:

a) number of Muslims are more than number of Satanists; that does not give them right to decide on what is acceptable and what is not if they are engaging similar rituals.
b) religious ceremony of sacrifice, or sacrifice for religious purposes require display of dismembering and/or dismembered animals (or humans) sacrificed for social show-off.
c) It does not really matter what is done with the carcass of an animal (eat it, dump it, use it for scientific purposes, etc.), not in this thread. Because we always kill animals.

These three points summarize my points, if you find them displayed in protesting manner, or if my intention was really all about criticising Islamic sacrifice, I think I wouldn't talk about this girl at all. I would talk about how Muslims are slaughtering animals only. My focus is, and it has always been about hypocrite attitude, not the practice.

Don't forget, this is life, this girl could easily be a Muslim girl in a non-Muslim society, and would be criticized by the dominant culture, and her eating wouldn't make her more innocent in front of their eyes. What would you feel about this hypothetical Muslim girl?

 

[S.A.M.]

You mean like the ban on ritual halal or kosher slaughter in European countries? Isn't that a given?

I doubt many Americans would look kindly upon native Americans following their customs either even though they ritually consume Jesus on a regular basis.

 

[baftan]

You mean like the ban on ritual halal or kosher slaughter in European countries? Isn't that a given?

I doubt many Americans would look kindly upon native Americans following their customs either.

You are not missing the point, you are intentionally walking around it: In European countries, Halal slaughter is made -and by law should be made- in hygienic environment. No body cares what do you say when you slaughter an animal: You can not slaughter it in public, you should be out of public eyes, too. You can not politicize your slaughter; you should follow procedures of animal slaughtering just as those who experiment on animals in laboratories. This method works in Europe up until now, I haven't heard any incident such as animal right activists invading Halal slaughter houses or government pressuring on Muslims in order to stop their way of slaughtering. However, you can not dismember animals in front of public, this is strict.

 

[Michael]

maybe I missed something but, I never heard of Muslims sacrificing animals to Allah. Now Roman Emperor Gods did this sort of thing very often. Cut a bulls throat and stand under it as the blood gushes around. 2000 years ago Europeans liked to eviscerate animals (and humans) alive and watch which way the organs twitched - you know, so they could "read the future". I seem remember reading in a bible once, or was that a coloring book of bible stories, that someone had to kill his son for God? And then God didn't think that was enough blood and so flooded the earth instead.

The Jewish/Christians/Muslim God is one sonnabeeach. He likes his blood that's for sure.



Hopefully most of humanity have moved on past this sort of blind ignorance.... oh wait, most people are theists

 

[S.A.M.]

I never heard of Muslims sacrificing animals to Allah

You never heard of halal meat? What do you think that is?

He's referring to Bakr Eid though, which is a reenactment of Abrahams commitment to God [or Truth] before which nothing, not even his first born son [a valuable commodity in Arab culture] is significant. In the Islamic version of the story though, Abraham dreams the summons and talks to his son about it, they both "submit" [sufficiently vague as to permit any interpretation] and God stays his hand admonishing him for not distinguishing between dream and reality.

 

[baftan]

I never heard of Muslims sacrificing animals to Allah.

I somehow think that this was a sarcasm.

 

[S.A.M.]

I somehow think that this was a sarcasm.

This is Michael.

 

[Michael]

Just out of curiosity, other than this Jewish story, is there any other evidence for Allah asking Muslims to kill and animal (or human) as a sacrifice?

I'm also curious if pre-Islamic Arabs sacrificed animals to the Gods?



As I understand it, most of the "sacrifices" were in actuality BBQ were everyone in the tribe came around and had a plate of meat from the best of the best cattle. The whole God thing was really just to get someone to pony up a free slab of good meat.

 

[S.A.M.]

You are not missing the point, you are intentionally walking around it: In European countries, Halal slaughter is made -and by law should be made- in hygienic environment. No body cares what do you say when you slaughter an animal: You can not slaughter it in public, you should be out of public eyes, too. You can not politicize your slaughter; you should follow procedures of animal slaughtering just as those who experiment on animals in laboratories. This method works in Europe up until now, I haven't heard any incident such as animal right activists invading Halal slaughter houses or government pressuring on Muslims in order to stop their way of slaughtering. However, you can not dismember animals in front of public, this is strict.

Yeah, I know, many people won't even eat a fish if the head is still attached. They are very...civilised people. They only use chemical weapons because the distance from the victims is greater and they are less likely to be splattered with blood and brains. Some of them also hold up a pinky when drinking tea. Its all very upper class.

 

[Michael]

Hey now, that was not sarcasm, I seriously had never heard of Muslims sacrificing animals to Allah. Maybe they say a prayer before killing an animal, but, is this all that unusual? I mean, EVERY SINGLE time I eat with Japanese we must say itadakimasu. Which is essentially telling the food thank you for dieing so that we can live. It's said prayer like with the head bowed to give the food a bit of respect.

So, I don't see the difference. AM I missing something?